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BC NDP Opposed to Smart Meters - But Will Do Nothing if Elected


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#1 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

Much like the BC NDP opposition to the HST, they have confirmed that if elected the BC Hydro smart meters will stay. Oh yeah and they will not rule out instituting time of use pricing for electricity in future which is one of the main planks in the opposition to smart meters which open up such a pricing model.

Michael Smyth writes of this in a column in the Vancouver Province.

NDP wrath over smart meters much like hatred for HST
But energy critic admits new devices wouldn't go, even if his party wins

By Michael Smyth, The Province February 10, 2013

In the target-rich environment that is B.C. politics, one of the NDP's favourite objects of scorn has been the Liberal government's controversial smart meters.


Ever since the Liberals announced they'd spend a billion dollars to install the high-tech power meters in every B.C. home, the New Democrats have been in full-on attack mode.


"People doubt the value of the meters," said NDP energy critic John Horgan.


"They doubt the safety of the meters. And that doubt is leading to a provincial program that, in the eyes of many, is illegitimate."


Horgan, likely the next energy minister if the NDP wins the May election, has ripped just about every facet of the smart-meter program.


Complaints of over-billing: "A lot of people have been shocked by their bills. They are fearful their new smart meters are not measuring accurately."


Suspicions that smart meters will eventually charge customers a higher "time-of-use" rate during peak consumption periods: "Another way of gouging you for cooking your dinner at 6 p.m. when your family gets home from work."


And spending $1 billion on a program without a detailed business plan: "This program is off the rails. It's among the worst policy decisions and implementation that I have ever seen."


Quite the indictment. Perhaps only the hated harmonized sales tax has attracted more NDP wrath.


All of which begs the question: What would the New Democrats do with the smart meters they detest so much?


Horgan makes one thing clear: To the chagrin of smart-meter opponents, he says an NDP government won't get rid of them.


"I'm the devil incarnate now because I said I won't take them off people's walls," said Horgan, noting the NDP has received 2,000 public complaints about smart meters in 2013 alone.


"Every passing month another 100,000 or 200,000 meters were installed," Horgan said.


"I've never said we could turn back the clock on a program of that scale."


Fair enough. But what about those people who think radio waves from the wireless meters will make them sick?


What about people who think smart meters are overcharging them?


Or B.C. Hydro customers convinced smart meters are a computerized Trojan horse, designed to spring expensive "time-of-use billing" on them later on?


Horgan makes no promises, other than to say an NDP government would turn the whole mess over to the B.C. Utilities Commission for an independent review.


"We'll look at developing an opt-out program that will protect the integrity of the smart grid," Horgan said.


"We'd look at opt-out provisions in other jurisdictions, the cost of opting out and who would pay those costs."


In other words, maybe an NDP government would let you refuse to take a smart meter.


Maybe they'd let you get rid of your smart meter if you already have one.


And maybe you'd have to pay extra to go smart-meter-free.


Maybe. One of the big questions, Horgan explained, is whether allowing a smart-meter opt-out provision would threaten the function of Hydro's "smart grid."


For example: Hydro says one of the biggest benefits of smart meters is the ability to quickly detect and fix localized power failures.


But couldn't Hydro still do that, even if some people don't have a smart meter?


"I've had experts tell me you don't need a smart meter in every single house to have a smart grid," Horgan said.


But what do you do when entire neighbourhoods or apartment buildings decide they don't want a smart meter?


"On Gabriola Island, they've got a trap line at the ferry terminal and if anyone spots a Corix van, everybody goes on high alert to protect their old meters," Horgan said. (Corix is the Hydro contractor that replaces the old analog meters with smart meters.)


Then there's the cost of an opt-out program. Horgan said an NDP government would question Hydro officials about that.


"Those are questions I can't answer before an election, but I'm committed to getting the answers after an election," he said.


But here's perhaps the biggest question of all: Would an NDP government introduce time-of-use billing, where Hydro customers are charged higher rates in the evening and other peak-demand periods?


After all, that's why smart meters were invented in the first place.


"Time-of-use pricing is not on my agenda," Horgan said.


But then he added: "I don't know what the future holds."

http://www.theprovin...l#ixzz2KXIq3YsD

Edited by Wetcoaster, 10 February 2013 - 03:06 PM.

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#2 Grapefruits

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:34 PM

If the NDP was in power the smart meters would have already been forced upon everyone a long time ago, time of use pricing included from the day of install.
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#3 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

What are they going to do. Spend another billion dollars to have them removed?
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#4 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:37 PM

If the NDP was in power the smart meters would have already been forced upon everyone a long time ago, time of use pricing included from the day of install.


And your basis for this opinion is?
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#5 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

What are they going to do. Spend another billion dollars to have them removed?

They didn't seem to have an issue with the cost of "removing" the HST....
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#6 Grapefruits

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:40 PM

And your basis for this opinion is?


NDP's track record.
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#7 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:24 PM

NDP's track record.

Yup.

George Santayana, who, in his Reason in Common Sense, The Life of Reason, Vol.1, wrote

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Or courtesy of Edmund Burke (1729-1797):

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

I remember and lived through the past NDP administrations (Barrett and Harcourt/Clark/Miller/Dosanjh) and have no wish to see history repeated courtesy of a forger who was up to his elbows in wrongdoing under Clark.
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#8 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

They didn't seem to have an issue with the cost of "removing" the HST....



The NDP didn't remove the HST.
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#9 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

The NDP didn't remove the HST.

The point is BC NDP stated they would not remove the HST if elected - before the referendum.

Like the smart meters they are in attack mode but not governance mode.
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#10 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:38 PM

NDP's track record.


You mean like sinking the whole forest sector?
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#11 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

Crusty as Premier is a JOKE. She is about as scandalous as they come. Nice of the Liberals to not let the BCUC look into these STUPID meters, before they start installing. As well as not allow ANY democratic process to take place before SHOVING them down our throats. Did I mention they are not C.S.A approved? Or the fact they are a Class 2B carcinogen according to the W.H.O? Or that they cause a break in the human D.N.A chain? Or that the military has already done testing of weapons that use Microwave Radiation (which is the same technology as these meters)? Or, that they interfere with house alarms and are a MAJOR fire hazard. Silly that Hydro and insurance companies will not pick up the tab for a house fire's damage. They also have a zigby chip in them that allow for Hydro/Lieberals to trample on your privacy rights. Not to mention the peak hour usage billing they WILL introduce once the system is turned on. They ARE a lot more harmful than a cell phone call, no matter what LIES Hydro has said about this. N. America has the worst laws against this dirty power being subjected to it's public, than anywhere else worldwide. Hydro also has the ability to tap into Canada's pension fiances whenever they choose. This program will have costed the tax payers well over $2.5 Billion when it's all over and done with and perhaps even more than that (until they all need to be replaced in the next five to ten years, costing us another $Billion then). These objects are not only meter's, but also Transmitters, that is full of dangerous signals to us humans. I wish we could scrap the whole stupid program, but until we have an opt out, I have to have my meter locked up like the pentagon. I can not believe the Liberal Govnmt, can get away with all the scandalous and treasonous behaviour. The public, by law states we SHOULD get the right to vote on these death traps, as we are supposed to be able to live in a democratic country, where we get the choice to say no to something harmful strapped to our house, irradiating us all to death S-L-O-W-L-Y. I hope Crusty the Liberals, and B.C. Hydro, somehow pay for this program they forced on the public, that OWNS Hydro to begin with. I will be voting N.D.P JUST BECAUSE of the Liberals behaviour regarding this, not to mention all the other sneaky crap Crusty has pulled since she has been elected Premier of B.C.
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#12 iwtl

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

These right wing propoganda posts are *yawn* getting old. The BC Liberals and their supporters are so desperate to get the focus off them they are creating things that are not news. This is one of those "have you stopped hitting your dog" questions which the reporter demands a yes or no answer. No matter how you answer it your toast - even though you never even owned a dog let alone touched one.

On a weeked that news media attention on a potential Liberal MLA who is facing tax charges - resulted in their stepping aside ( BC Liberals seemed to have known and been ok with it ) and that doesn't get posted but this does here? Speaks volumes really that these posters care nothing for BC it seems.
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#13 mpt

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:53 PM

Just like the NDP, all complaining and no substance. The funny thing is people support because they say the right things but when it comes to action they continue to fall short.
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#14 iwtl

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

Just like the NDP, all complaining and no substance. The funny thing is people support because they say the right things but when it comes to action they continue to fall short.


You do know they are in opposition not power at this moment correct? In that article above the NDP made it clear they would turn it over to the BC Utilitiese commission to seek answers before commenting. That would be the smart thing to do - to check your facts before commiting to a firm direction. As they are not in power - they are not in a position to know all the costs and barriers that could be faced in letting people opt out - what are the costs etc. The reporter never asked that if it was doable financially without further costs would they let people opt out - that would have been a smart question and that's why it was not asked.

The right wing has to start using logic and reason in there posts and comments - Based on your comments its the BC Liberals your upset at.
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"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#15 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:07 PM

These right wing propoganda posts are *yawn* getting old. The BC Liberals and their supporters are so desperate to get the focus off them they are creating things that are not news. This is one of those "have you stopped hitting your dog" questions which the reporter demands a yes or no answer. No matter how you answer it your toast - even though you never even owned a dog let alone touched one.

On a weeked that news media attention on a potential Liberal MLA who is facing tax charges - resulted in their stepping aside ( BC Liberals seemed to have known and been ok with it ) and that doesn't get posted but this does here? Speaks volumes really that these posters care nothing for BC it seems.

Your kvetching and complaints about right wing propoganda (sic) posts are *yawn* getting old.

Actually the article by Mike Smyth is about the NDP trying to capitalize politically on an issue yet not having the guts to say they would act differently if in power - just as they did with the HST.

I am not a BC LIberal supporter per se and never been a member of the BC Liberal party (and I have never been a supporter nor member of the federal Liberals).

I am anti-BC NDP and any party that can keep the BC NDP out of office has my support based upon what I have seen when they have been in office in BC. So my default setting in this case is to vote for the BC Liberals. In this game you do not have to be the best just better than the other guy and in this case that is the BC Liberals.

Feel free to post information on Sukh Dhaliwal but accurate information is probably best..

According to reports the BC Liberal party did not know about the charges which are failure to file corporate tax returns for one of his companies. At the time he became a candidate (October) the charges had not been filed (filed in November).

When this was brought to the attention of the BC Liberals they indicated they would look into the matter but before the review was complete Dhaliwal decided to step aside while the charges were pending.


High-profile B.C. Liberal candidate Sukh Dhaliwal says he won’t run in the upcoming provincial election after he was charged with six counts of failing to file income taxes.


Dhaliwal, a former two-term MP for the federal Liberals, had been acclaimed as a candidate last October, but a month later he appeared in court on the charges under the Federal Income Tax Act.



The Liberal Party said earlier Friday it was reviewing Dhaliwal’s candidacy in Surrey-Panorama after learning about the charges on Wednesday, but Dhaliwal said he wasn’t pushed by the party to quit.


Earlier this week, Dhaliwal told a local radio station he made a mistake in trusting other people to run the company where he and his wife are listed as the sole directors.


But he has said his taxes on his own company and his personal taxes are up to date.


“When I look at those charges that are in front of the court, they are not (about) shirking my physical responsibility, but they are because of the difficulty obtaining information from other sources,” Dhaliwal said at the Friday news conference.


Dhaliwal said he is taking full responsibility and is working to resolve the situation He said politicians should live up to the highest standards of behaviour and he doesn’t want to detract from the issues in the May election.


“I tell you right now that people have to be brave enough, and I’m brave, my family is brave enough, to come out today to be accountable to the people and the media and that’s why I’m standing in front of you not shirking my responsibility.”


Dhaliwal, who sat as a federal MP for two terms, said he learned of the charges in late November.


He wouldn’t answer questions about why he didn’t tell the party sooner about the charges, but said his lawyer had hoped to have the matter dealt with quickly.


The party said the decision for the review was taken at Clark’s request.


After Dhaliwal announced he was withdrawing, party president Sharon White thanked him for his “commitment to the party and our leader”.


White said the party will now consult with the Surrey-Panorama constituency association about when to hold a new candidate selection meeting.


“We will be moving ahead soon with nominations throughout Surrey and look forward to announcing our full Surrey team,” said White.


Surrey-Panorama is currently held by Minister of Children and Families Stephanie Cadieux, who will stay with the party but run in a nearby riding.


Dhaliwal ran unsuccessfully for the federal Liberals in the riding of Newton-North Delta in 2004, but returned two years later, winning a seat in Parliament for two terms before being defeated by the federal NDP’s Jinny Sims, a past president of the BC Teachers’ Federation.

http://www.theglobea...article8383397/

Edited by Wetcoaster, 10 February 2013 - 06:09 PM.

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#16 Grapefruits

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:23 PM

The NDP didn't remove the HST.


No but they made it so good old Vanderscam could come in, fleece the public, and run away laughing back to the rock he crawled out from under.
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#17 iwtl

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:31 PM

sorry that others opinions are such that you feel to call posters whinners and complainers. I truley feel that all people within Canada have a right to an opinion. I have never posted information regarding that aboved named person other then refernce to the link and asked why that would not be mentioned by people who are proffessing to be so worried about BC.

I no longer feel free to post my thoughts.

From http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ax-charges.html

it says

"was charged last October, just weeks before the B.C. Liberal Party announced he would be their candidate in the riding of Surrey-Panorama."

That is was left me with the feeling that someone there had to know - Charged is very different from being convicted and the guy could be 100% completely innocent. My only point - I repeat this again - My only point was why would that news story not also have warranted discussion?

And Kudos to him for doing the correct thing - stepping aside while the process unfolds. I would say the same for any NDP candidate in the same situation. I would rather see and NPD win in that riding because voters wanted to vote for them rather then see a win based soley on voting against someone. Ditto for both parties

Edited by iwtl, 10 February 2013 - 06:56 PM.

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"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#18 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:33 PM

The NDP didn't remove the HST.

They ran anti-HST ads for months leading up to the referendum, all the while knowing that the cost to BC taxpayers would be astronomical.

It was all about opposing an idea because it was introduced by the Liberals, not because they honestly believed that it was the better alternative for the province.
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#19 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:35 PM

No but they made it so good old Vanderscam could come in, fleece the public, and run away laughing back to the rock he crawled out from under.


Actually I'm pretty sure the People who voted in the referendum did that. That was what you would call democracy at its finest. The majority of people in the province wanted to go back to the old system. Don't blame the NDP for how people voted in a referendum that was done under another government.
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#20 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:41 PM

They ran anti-HST ads for months leading up to the referendum, all the while knowing that the cost to BC taxpayers would be astronomical.

It was all about opposing an idea because it was introduced by the Liberals, not because they honestly believed that it was the better alternative for the province.


The HST should never have been brought in in the first place. It was an attempt at balancing one years budget shortfall by taking a lump sum of 1.6 billion from the federal government to do it. We as a province were fleeced the moment the liberals got into power here.

The BC liberals are the people who managed to sink the forestry sector during the largest infrastructure and building boom the world has ever seen........ Nothing has been more tragic and mismanaged in our province ever.

Edited by Harbinger, 10 February 2013 - 06:46 PM.

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#21 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

sorry that others opinions are such that you feel to call posters whinners and complainers. I truley feel that all people within Canada have a right to an opinion. I have never posted information regarding that aboved named person other then refernce to the link and asked why that would not be mentioned by people who are proffessing to be so worried about BC.

I no longer feel free to post my thoughts.

From http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ax-charges.html

it says

"was charged last October, just weeks before the B.C. Liberal Party announced he would be their candidate in the riding of Surrey-Panorama."

That is was left me with the feeling that someone there had to know - Charged is very different from being convicted and the guy could be 100% completely innocent. My only point - I repeat this again - My only point was why would that news story not also have warranted discussion?

But it is okay to refer to right-wing propagandists??

BTW - What prevented you from posting the story if you believed it to be so newsworthy?

I see nothing in that story that says the BC Liberals were aware of the charges. Perhaps your pro-BC NDP bias blinded yo to that fact and you saw what you wanted to see. Maybe try not going with feelings and try to adhere to facts in future.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 10 February 2013 - 06:47 PM.

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#22 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:45 PM

The HST should never have been brought in in the first place. It was an attempt at balancing one years budget shortfall by taking a lump sum of 1.6 billion from the federal government to do it. We as a province were fleeced the moment the liberals got into power here.

Sorry to disagree with your expert and unbiased opinion, but since it runs counter to the opinions expressed by virtually every economist that commented on it, I'm going to have to go ahead and do so....
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#23 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

I also LOVE the fact the OP never mentioned, that the NDP is going to send this program to the BCUC to be looked over, if elected. This is something the Lie-berals/Hydro went out of their way to keep it from going to the BCUC to begin with. Basically the Lie-berals used/made a loophole to keep the BCUC from doing their job. Yeah those NDP crooks sure are bad :rolleyes: . Did I mention, that many of the Lie-berals responsible for the program, also hold high up positions with Hydro, and even some of those gems, are also part owners in Corix (the company who makes/installs the meters). I could not even make this stuff up. I also looooove the attack adds on Dix, very American in the message and delivery (gotta love attack campaigns in politics).

Edited by enforcer22, 10 February 2013 - 06:55 PM.

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#24 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:50 PM

I also LOVE the fact the OP never mentioned, that the NDP is going to send this program to the BCUC to be looked over, if elected. This is something the Lie-berals/Hydro went out of their way to keep it from going to the BCUC to begin with. Basically the Lie-berals used/made a loophole to keep the BCUC from doing their job. Yeah those NDP crooks sure are bad :rolleyes: . Did I mention, that many of the Lie-berals also hold high up positions with Hydro, and even some of those gems, are also part owners in Corix (the company who makes/installs the meters). I could not even make this stuff up. I also looooove the attack adds on Dix, very American in the message and delivery (gotta love attack campaigns in politics).

The same as NDP insider John Laxton running BC Hydro during the BC NDP years. Remember the Raiwind power scandal?
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#25 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:52 PM

Sorry to disagree with your expert and unbiased opinion, but since it runs counter to the opinions expressed by virtually every economist that commented on it, I'm going to have to go ahead and do so....


You disagree with why it was done?? Everyone knows why it was done. 1.6 billion in instant cash and a higher taxation rate. That's it. There was no other reason. They are the morons who implemented a balanced budget law. Then saw they would fail that immediately then amended it to give themselves more time. Then accepted 1.6 billion dollars to try and offset the deficits. This isn't up for debate. That's what happened.
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#26 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:55 PM

I also LOVE the fact the OP never mentioned, that the NDP is going to send this program to the BCUC to be looked over, if elected. This is something the Lie-berals/Hydro went out of their way to keep it from going to the BCUC to begin with. Basically the Lie-berals used/made a loophole to keep the BCUC from doing their job. Yeah those NDP crooks sure are bad :rolleyes: . Did I mention, that many of the Lie-berals also hold high up positions with Hydro, and even some of those gems, are also part owners in Corix (the company who makes/installs the meters). I could not even make this stuff up. I also looooove the attack adds on Dix, very American in the message and delivery (gotta love attack campaigns in politics).

What about the information in the ad was not factual.

Did Dix not forge a memo and try to deflect not only a police investigation but also an investigation by the Conflict of interest Commissioner.

Despite this admitted wrongdoing did Dix not get a $70,000 severance payment when he was forced to resign?
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#27 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:56 PM

You disagree with why it was done?? Everyone knows why it was done. 1.6 billion in instant cash and a higher taxation rate. That's it. There was no other reason. They are the morons who implemented a balanced budget law. Then saw they would fail that immediately then amended it to give themselves more time. Then accepted 1.6 billion dollars to try and offset the deficits. This isn't up for debate. That's what happened.

Everybody does not know this and I for one do not believe that to be the reason.

HST made much more sense than the old PST/GST regime on any number of levels.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#28 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:00 PM

What about the information in the ad was not factual.

Did Dix not forge a memo and try to deflect not only a police investigation but also an investigation by the Conflict of interest Commissioner.

Despite this admitted wrongdoing did Dix not get a $70,000 severance payment when he was forced to resign?



Yes and never mind ANYTHING else I wrote? The Smart Meter Program is against our human rights and un-democratic to boot, this program is the icing on the cake for the Lie-berals BS way of running the province, and Crusty is a complete moron, who should have stuck with something she was good at (radio host) instead of wrecking our Province. You slamming Dix, but overlooking Clarke sure is comical.
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#29 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:02 PM

Everybody does not know this and I for one do not believe that to be the reason.

HST made much more sense than the old PST/GST regime on any number of levels.


The HST was the best thing for this province alright. It was the sword that got rid of Campbell and it will be the sword removes Christy Clarke as well.
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#30 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:04 PM

Yes and never mind ANYTHING else I wrote? The Smart Meter Program is against our human rights and un-democratic to boot, this program is the icing on the cake for the Lie-berals BS way of running the province, and Crusty is a complete moron, who should have stuck with something she was good at (radio host) instead of wrecking our Province. You slamming Dix, but overlooking Clarke sure is comical.

Given that the rest of your post was pretty much gibberish there was not much to comment upon.

Against "our human rights"??? Seriously. :lol:

How is it undemocratic (given that we operate under a representative democracy model)?

BTW the spelling of the Premier's surname is "Clark".

IMHO in a contest between Clark and Dix - Clark wins every time. YMMV.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.




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