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BC NDP Opposed to Smart Meters - But Will Do Nothing if Elected


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#31 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

The same as NDP insider John Laxton running BC Hydro during the BC NDP years. Remember the Raiwind power scandal?


So please tell me why it was ok for the Lie-berals and BC Hydro to deny this program from going to the BCUC??? Let me guess, because it is not illegal for them to conduct business in this manner? Not to mention the dirty tactics involved, in them forcing these death traps on the public.
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#32 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:10 PM

Given that the rest of your post was pretty much gibberish there was not much to comment upon.

Against "our human rights"??? Seriously. :lol:

How is it undemocratic (given that we operate under a representative democracy model)?

BTW the spelling of the Premier's surname is "Clark".

IMHO in a contest between Clark and Dix - Clark wins every time. YMMV.


Yes Wet and you are holier than thou, because you are a Lawer, but the so called "gibberish" is factual, so do me a favour and do some research before telling me I am wrong. It is against my human rights, and there is an actual case happening right now with the Human Rights Tribunal regarding these meters. I am pretty sure, we have a democratic right to vote on something before it is FORCED upon us, especially since our health is in jeopardy because of this program.

P.S. I could care less about my spelling, and more about my health.

Edited by enforcer22, 10 February 2013 - 07:12 PM.

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#33 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:11 PM

So please tell me why it was ok for the Lie-berals and BC Hydro to deny this program from going to the BCUC??? Let me guess, because it is not illegal for them to conduct business in this manner? Not to mention the dirty tactics involved, in them forcing these death traps on the public.

Death traps??? Seriously? :lol:

You are aware that the BCUC in fact reviewed the smart meter implementation pursuant to a complaint, are you not?
http://www.bcuc.com/...-12-Reasons.pdf

Edited by Wetcoaster, 10 February 2013 - 07:14 PM.

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#34 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

Yes and never mind ANYTHING else I wrote? The Smart Meter Program is against our human rights and un-democratic to boot, this program is the icing on the cake for the Lie-berals BS way of running the province, and Crusty is a complete moron, who should have stuck with something she was good at (radio host) instead of wrecking our Province. You slamming Dix, but overlooking Clarke sure is comical.

Here's a little hint for you:

Lose the name-calling. It doesn't make you look clever, it makes you look like a petulant teenager, who can't make a compelling argument without resorting to insults.

The HST was the best thing for this province alright. It was the sword that got rid of Campbell and it will be the sword removes Christy Clarke as well.

Nice job of refuting the actual post. That was almost as good a Schroeder's deflection last night.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#35 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:14 PM

Given that the rest of your post was pretty much gibberish there was not much to comment upon.

Against "our human rights"??? Seriously. :lol:

How is it undemocratic (given that we operate under a representative democracy model)?

BTW the spelling of the Premier's surname is "Clark".

IMHO in a contest between Clark and Dix - Clark wins every time. YMMV.



HAHAHAHA we will see how that works out for her next election.
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#36 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

Here's a little hint for you:

Lose the name-calling. It doesn't make you look clever, it makes you look like a petulant teenager, who can't make a compelling argument without resorting to insults.


Nice job of refuting the actual post. That was almost as good a Schroeder's deflection last night.



Refuting? There is nothing to refute. The timeline and the actions are all out there for anyone to look up. I don't need to hold your hand in this do I?
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#37 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:17 PM

Yes Wet and you are holier than thou, because you are a Lawer, but the so called "gibberish" is factual, so do me a favour and do some research before telling me I am wrong. It is against my human rights, and there is an actual case happening right now with the Human Rights Tribunal regarding these meters. I am pretty sure, we have a democratic right to vote on something before it is FORCED upon us, especially since our health is in jeopardy because of this program.

P.S. I could care less about my spelling, and more about my health.

No in a representative democracy voters do not get to vote on individual policy decisions.

There is a wealth of evidence that smart meters have no impact upon the health of individuals.

And the spelling is "Lawyer".

You have a different definition than I have for "factual".

Edited by Wetcoaster, 10 February 2013 - 07:18 PM.

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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#38 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:19 PM

Refuting? There is nothing to refute. The timeline and the actions are all out there for anyone to look up. I don't need to hold your hand in this do I?

I'm well aware of the timeline. I'm not sure that you are (other than what the Zalm and the NDP told you) and you certainly did not refute that fact that the vast majority of economic experts disagree with your opinion.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#39 iwtl

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:20 PM

But it is okay to refer to right-wing propagandists??

BTW - What prevented you from posting the story if you believed it to be so newsworthy?

I see nothing in that story that says the BC Liberals were aware of the charges. Perhaps your pro-BC NDP bias blinded yo to that fact and you saw what you wanted to see. Maybe try not going with feelings and try to adhere to facts in future.


Like I said I got what you said LOUD AND CLEAR. Would you please stop attacking me and insulting me - I have said I am done posting my opinion - you win. Implying that I lied is deeming and insulting.
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#40 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:20 PM

No in a representative democracy voters do not get to vote on individual policy decisions.

There is a wealth of evidence that smart meters have no impact upon the health of individuals.

And the spelling is "Lawyer".

You have a different definition than I have for "factual".


Yeah HYDRO's Info stating they are not a health risk, I suggest you read up : http://www.bioinitiative.org/ and this too : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5vb9R0x_0NQ

Dr. Kendal is refusing to look at facts here, and he is probably rewarded very handsomely to do so. I suggest you look into this a little more before telling me I am wrong. Here is a doc on all the little details that Hydro and the Liberals are not talking about : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1LcQtpWRrI LOOVE the door prizes Hydro offers here.

Also Mr.Coleman has flip flopped as of late regarding us not having to worry about them changing our meter's without our consent : http://www.timescolo...install-1.59575 Funny elections are just around the corner. Also they are lying and still changing the old meters without the consent of the owners.

Sorry the above vid with Brian is a little older, here is a newer one :

Edited by enforcer22, 10 February 2013 - 07:40 PM.

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#41 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

Like I said I got what you said LOUD AND CLEAR. Would you please stop attacking me and insulting me - I have said I am done posting my opinion - you win. Implying that I lied is deeming and insulting.

What insults?

The only insults I see are the ones you posted.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#42 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:24 PM

I'm well aware of the timeline. I'm not sure that you are (other than what the Zalm and the NDP told you) and you certainly did not refute that fact that the vast majority of economic experts disagree with your opinion.



Economists? You mean the guys who didn't see the collapse of the whole banking system coming a couple of years ago? Or is there some other fortune tellers out there that you mean?
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#43 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:28 PM

Economists? You mean the guys who didn't see the collapse of the whole banking system coming a couple of years ago? Or is there some other fortune tellers out there that you mean?

Right. In absence of any expert opinion to agree with your own, attempt to discredit those that don't.

Not to worry Harb. That noted expert on taxation, Bill Vander Zalm agrees with you. (You know, the guy who said he'd prefer a VAT to the HST)....
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#44 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:29 PM

Yeah HYDRO's Info stating they are not a health risk, I suggest you read up : http://www.bioinitiative.org/

In hearings in other jurisdictions those sorts of claims have also been rejected.

And Health Canada disagrees as well.


Health risks


As with any wireless device, some of the RF energy emitted by smart meters will be absorbed by anyone who is nearby. The amount of energy absorbed depends largely on how close your body is to a smart meter. Unlike cellular phones, where the transmitter is held close to the head and much of the RF energy that is absorbed is localised to one specific area, RF energy from smart meters is typically transmitted at a much greater distance from the human body. This results in very low RF exposure levels across the entire body, much like exposure to AM or FM radio broadcast signals.


Survey results have shown that smart meters transmit data in short bursts, and when not transmitting data, the smart meter does not emit RF energy. Furthermore, indoor and outdoor survey measurements of RF energy from smart meters during transmission bursts were found to be far below the human exposure limits specified in Health Canada's Safety Code 6.


Based on this information, Health Canada has concluded that exposure to RF energy from smart meters does not pose a public health risk.


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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#45 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:31 PM

Right. In absence of any expert opinion to agree with your own, attempt to discredit those that don't.

Not to worry Harb. That noted expert on taxation, Bill Vander Zalm agrees with you. (You know, the guy who said he'd prefer a VAT to the HST)....



Show me the economists and we'll see who they worked for when they gave their opinions.
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#46 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:33 PM

Oh and Wetcoaster, feel free to deflect the fact they are NOT CSA approved. They are NOT SAFE. The World Health Organization says otherwise. Not to mention you allude the fact the military uses Microwave Radiation technology in weapons. Ex military personnel have come forward with the information saying just this.

Edited by enforcer22, 10 February 2013 - 07:44 PM.

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#47 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:34 PM

Oh, well in that case you're completely justified in acting like a child.

Please, carry on....


Thanks :) I feel the same about yourself.
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#48 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:37 PM

In hearings in other jurisdictions those sorts of claims have also been rejected.

And Health Canada disagrees as well.


Health risks


As with any wireless device, some of the RF energy emitted by smart meters will be absorbed by anyone who is nearby. The amount of energy absorbed depends largely on how close your body is to a smart meter. Unlike cellular phones, where the transmitter is held close to the head and much of the RF energy that is absorbed is localised to one specific area, RF energy from smart meters is typically transmitted at a much greater distance from the human body. This results in very low RF exposure levels across the entire body, much like exposure to AM or FM radio broadcast signals.


Survey results have shown that smart meters transmit data in short bursts, and when not transmitting data, the smart meter does not emit RF energy. Furthermore, indoor and outdoor survey measurements of RF energy from smart meters during transmission bursts were found to be far below the human exposure limits specified in Health Canada's Safety Code 6.


Based on this information, Health Canada has concluded that exposure to RF energy from smart meters does not pose a public health risk.



Health Canadas Safety Code Six is a JOKE and VERY outdated. They say because our tissue does not heat up to a certain temperature that it is not harmful to humans :rolleyes: . So answer me this Wetcoaster, are humans electrical beings....
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#49 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:37 PM

Show me the economists and we'll see who they worked for when they gave their opinions.

Keith Halliday is a Yukon economist and author of the Aurore of the Yukon series of historical children’s adventure novels. He was an outside observer and found the whole process perplexing. I previoulsy posted his opinion during the run-up to the HST referendum


In a strange turn of events, British Columbians who have successfully avoided economics classes their entire lives are now being subjected to a typical microeconomics final exam question: Which is better, a traditional sales tax like the old BC PST or a value-added tax like the new Harmonized Sales Tax (HST)?


A mail-in referendum is happening right now. What makes it different from an economics final exam is that voters have more than one professor.


There is an official “No” organization and another for “Yes.” Both are advertising vigorously, even going so far as to put election-style signs along the sides of the Stewart-Cassiar Highway for the benefit of voters in Dease Lake.


There is also an independent panel charged with opining on the choices. And finally, every think tank in Canada seems to have issued a report.


Tax policy is notoriously obscure and complex. In most countries, the choice of sales tax regime is left to the finance ministry and the legislature. This usually results in a tax like the HST, since most economists and tax experts view value-added taxes as much better than archaic sales taxes like the old BC PST. This is why nearly every country in Europe has an HST and not a PST.


It likely would have been the same in BC if the Liberal government in Victoria had not bungled the announcement of the tax, provoking a public backlash. Shortly after former BC premier Gordon Campbell announced the HST plan, one poll showed 82 per cent of British Columbians against it.


Now, new Premier Christy Clark is in damage control mode. To save the HST in the coming vote, she has announced a cut in the HST rate (which includes the five per cent federal GST) to 10 per cent from 12 per cent. She also raised corporate taxes, which is popular since that tax is invisible in the shops.


Meanwhile, disgraced former premier Bill Vander Zalm prowls the province successfully whipping up populist opposition against the HST. Like Vander Zalm, the BC NDP also prefers the old PST. It’s hard to tell if they really think the old PST was so great or if they just see a fine opportunity to attack their political opponents.


But let’s ignore the petty squabbles of politics and dive into the gripping world of tax economics.


The HST’s biggest advantage is that it is, in economist-talk, “non-distortionary.” Except for a few special things like alcohol and tobacco, it is generally harmful to productivity for government taxes to encourage some kinds of economic activity and discourage others. The old PST exempted haircuts, realtor commissions, massage therapy, management consulting and most other services, meaning that furniture makers, sporting goods stores and forestry companies had to carry the province’s tax burden. No one would design a new tax this way.


The PST also hurt exporters, since they had to pay PST on their supplies. This meant their costs were higher when they competed with Alberta or Washington companies. In effect, buyers in other jurisdictions were paying tax to the BC government. Taxing your own exports is not a strategy most countries pursue. The HST, in contrast, gives exporters a credit for the HST they pay on exported goods.


Another HST advantage is that it taxes consumption rather than investment and savings. This is why economists often prefer HST over corporate income taxes and especially taxes on capital. It seems silly to tax the profits of small business investors, and to let the rich in West Vancouver pay no taxes on the architect services for their million-dollar renovation.


A broad HST also attacks income tax evasion, a major issue in a province with such a big drug business. The HST gives grow-op millionaires a chance to contribute to public services in the province. Now they will pay tax on their mega-home purchases and airline tickets, and not just their heat lamps and hydroponic gear.


HST also saves the waste of having two different sales tax bureaucracies.


Finally, the HST is also more socially progressive than the old PST. This is because low-income citizens will get a rebate of up to $320 per year. Not a huge amount, but still better than the PST which had no low-income rebate.


It is of course preferable to have no sales tax at all. But that’s only possible if you have lots of oil money (Alberta and Alaska) or transfer payments (the Yukon). If you do need a sales tax, the HST is far superior to the old PST.


We’ll see if BC voters agree, despite the bungling of their government and the opportunistic posturing of opposition politicians.

http://yukon-news.com/opinions/columns/23699/
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#50 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

Health Canadas Safety Code Six is a JOKE and VERY outdated. They say because our tissue does not heat up to a certain temperature that it is not harmful to humans :rolleyes: . So answer me this Wetcoaster, are humans electrical beings....

Ah yes...the No True Scotsman logical fallacy at work. ::D
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#51 bolt

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

BC liberals are liars and taxed this province to death. They are corrupt beyond measure and not enough have resigned. Why don't you go watch another bc liberal tax payer paid advertisement and praise what an incredible job they've done.

Msp increases, tolls, hst, corrupt private public partnerships, tuition increases, park fees. What a joke
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#52 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:40 PM

Show me the economists and we'll see who they worked for when they gave their opinions.

They're all over the original HST thread. Are you really going to argue that the consensus amongst economists, including those without any political affiliation wasn't that the HST was good for the province.

How about the fact Dalton McGuinty called the repeal of the HST in BC "a competetive advantage" for Ontario? http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ntario-hst.html
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#53 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:42 PM

Oh and Wetcoaster, feel free to deflect the fact they are NOT CSA approved. They are NOT SAFE. The World Health Organization says otherwise.

Perhaps they are not "CSA approved" because CSA approval is not relevant?


Smart meters are exempt from Canadian Safety Association certification because those standards govern electronic consumer products, versus products that are owned, operated and managed by the utility. Smart meters are owned, installed and read by the utility, and they are governed by the British Columbia Electrical Safety Regulations.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#54 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:43 PM

Thanks :) I feel the same about yourself.

Really? At 52 years old, childlike is something I've rarely been accused of being. Perhaps you could provide an example of where I have done so?
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#55 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:44 PM

BC liberals are liars and taxed this province to death. They are corrupt beyond measure and not enough have resigned. Why don't you go watch another bc liberal tax payer paid advertisement and praise what an incredible job they've done.

Msp increases, tolls, hst, corrupt private public partnerships, tuition increases, park fees. What a joke

Are you honestly of the opinion that an NDP government will result in less taxation?
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#56 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:46 PM

Really? At 52 years old, childlike is something I've rarely been accused of being. Perhaps you could provide an example of where I have done so?

Just another newbie thrashing about who will not be with us for long on CDC. We have both seen countless such posters come and go at CDC over the years, eh?
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#57 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:47 PM

Really? At 52 years old, childlike is something I've rarely been accused of being. Perhaps you could provide an example of where I have done so?


Careful or he'll hit you with another "I know you are but what am I" retort. You may not be able to recover this time.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#58 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

Are you honestly of the opinion that an NDP government will result in less taxation?


Many people in BC were duped into listening to Vander Zalm to combat right wing politcs, so anything is possible

Edited by TimberWolf, 10 February 2013 - 07:56 PM.

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I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#59 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:50 PM

Careful or he'll hit you with another "I know you are but what am I" retort. You may not be able to recover this time.


Haahaha good one. Nice jail house tat buddy.
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#60 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:55 PM

I am done in this circus, anyone who wants the TRUTH and NOT lies fed to you by Hydro and Health Canada, check out the Docs I have posted, they hold more than enough TRUTHFUL info to show what really is going on here. I can not believe Russia cares more for their citizens health, than Canada regarding this technology. Nighty night you wolves haha.
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