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BC NDP Opposed to Smart Meters - But Will Do Nothing if Elected


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#91 mpt

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:37 PM

You do know they are in opposition not power at this moment correct? In that article above the NDP made it clear they would turn it over to the BC Utilitiese commission to seek answers before commenting. That would be the smart thing to do - to check your facts before commiting to a firm direction. As they are not in power - they are not in a position to know all the costs and barriers that could be faced in letting people opt out - what are the costs etc. The reporter never asked that if it was doable financially without further costs would they let people opt out - that would have been a smart question and that's why it was not asked.

The right wing has to start using logic and reason in there posts and comments - Based on your comments its the BC Liberals your upset at.


Actually no it's not, I have no problem with the smart meters; sure I don't support time of day billing but the old meters had to go. Paying someone to walk around and read meters is very inefficient. Waiting for someone to call you to tell you that their power is out is inefficient. Not calibrating your old meters year after year increases inaccurate readings. It's time for better more efficient technology.

I have a problem with the NDP who always just side on what the public complains at just for popularity; when it comes to making critical decisions for the future of the province they just try to give the people what they want even if its not in the best interest of the province. Mark my word when the NDP win the election most of the middle and low class people in the province will be happy and our struggling economy and increased deficit will be the end result.

Edited by mpt, 10 February 2013 - 11:42 PM.

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#92 thedestroyerofworlds

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

Actually no it's not, I have no problem with the smart meters; sure I don't support time of day billing but the old meters had to go. Paying someone to walk around and read meters is very inefficient. Waiting for someone to call you to tell you that their power is out is inefficient. Not calibrating your old meters year after year increases inaccurate readings. It's time for better more efficient technology.

I have a problem with the NDP who always just side on what the public complains at just for popularity; when it comes to making critical decisions for the future of the province they just try to give the people what they want even if its not in the best interest of the province. Mark my word when the NDP win the election most of the middle and low class people in the province will be happy and our struggling economy and increased deficit will be the end result.

Has the low/middle classes benefited under the Lies?? Nearly a decade of no significant wage increases. Have the Lies had any significant success balancing the budget? Has, in their words, "low taxes" and "controlled spending" with increased commodities prices improved the economy to a significantly greater extent than the NDP era of the 90's.

Can you say yes with a straight face??

I can’t.
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#93 NHL94

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:45 PM

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Be nice if Wetcoaster EVER posted an anti Conservative party thread.

He made an entire threat criticizing the NDP for their political attack ads, when the Conservatives out spent everyone on them 3-1 in the last federal election.
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#94 Wetcoaster

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:22 PM

Be nice if Wetcoaster EVER posted an anti Conservative party thread.

He made an entire threat criticizing the NDP for their political attack ads, when the Conservatives out spent everyone on them 3-1 in the last federal election.

Being as you are newbie, you would not be cognizant of the fact that I have criticized the Harper government on numerous occasions when it is warranted.

Such as:
http://forum.canucks...st__p__10207254
http://forum.canucks...st__p__10147071
http://forum.canucks...st__p__10130246
http://forum.canucks...st__p__10012417

And there are countless other such posts over the years.

You are newbie right and not a banned poster, with a dummy account, eh?
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#95 Common sense

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:06 AM

Be nice if Wetcoaster EVER posted an anti Conservative party thread.


Only one problem - this is a thread on provincial politics and parties, not federal politics and parties.
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#96 DonLever

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:40 AM

Not less taxation. Fairer taxation.


What could be fairer than $800 a year in HST rebates for low income people. I know many elderly people who came far ahead becasue they don't spend that much money on services like haircuts and restaurant meals.

Biggest lie by the anti-HST folks is that it hurts poor people when nothing can be farther from the truth.

A value added tax is far fairer taxation than income tax because it is something you can control. Spend less and you will be be taxed less. Simple as that.

BTW, PST + GST = 7 +5 %= 12% for most goods anyway. It was 12% if you buy clothing, electronics, etc. before the HST and will still be 12% after.

Also, it was projected that households would pay an additional $300 in taxes a year. Or less than $1 a day.

My property tax went up more than that this year. Why is there no anti-Property tax increase petition out there?
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#97 iwtl

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

Biggest lie by the anti-HST folks is that it hurts poor people when nothing can be farther from the truth.

A value added tax is far fairer taxation than income tax because it is something you can control. Spend less and you will be be taxed less. Simple as that.


The problem with that is the less that is spent - the less that is collected in tax - and cuts are then required. Consumer based taxation depends on people spending.
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#98 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:15 AM

The problem with that is the less that is spent - the less that is collected in tax - and cuts are then required. Consumer based taxation depends on people spending.



And the people who have more money, spend more money...

...before you know it, you have exactly what the Left has been wanting since forever.....the "rich" paying their "fair share"...
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#99 Heretic

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:18 AM

So....what is wrong with smart meters?

They installed one on my place back in December and I like the stats I can see online for my electrical consumption.

I can even do a "green day" and see the results immediately (next day).
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#100 Wetcoaster

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

So....what is wrong with smart meters?

They installed one on my place back in December and I like the stats I can see online for my electrical consumption.

I can even do a "green day" and see the results immediately (next day).

So you have not done the black light test and discovered that you are glowing from the RF emissions from the smart meter????

NOTE - rife with sarcasm
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#101 Heretic

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

So you have not done the black light test and discovered that you are glowing from the RF emissions from the smart meter????

NOTE - rife with sarcasm


Nope - I don't own a black light...besides...I thought we are supposed to trust science?

"
Understanding Radio Frequency and BC Hydro's Smart Meters

Safety is our top priority for BC Hydro and is an important focus of the Smart Metering Program. That's why we have reviewed the scientific research related to radio frequency based technology. After decades of research, there are no demonstrable health or environmental effects from exposure to low level radio frequency signals. Here are the facts about smart meters and their low level radio frequency:"


http://www.bchydro.c...rtmeters_safety
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#102 Aladeen

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

What could be fairer than $800 a year in HST rebates for low income people. I know many elderly people who came far ahead becasue they don't spend that much money on services like haircuts and restaurant meals.

Biggest lie by the anti-HST folks is that it hurts poor people when nothing can be farther from the truth.

A value added tax is far fairer taxation than income tax because it is something you can control. Spend less and you will be be taxed less. Simple as that.

BTW, PST + GST = 7 +5 %= 12% for most goods anyway. It was 12% if you buy clothing, electronics, etc. before the HST and will still be 12% after.

Also, it was projected that households would pay an additional $300 in taxes a year. Or less than $1 a day.

My property tax went up more than that this year. Why is there no anti-Property tax increase petition out there?

Property tax is a fair taxation as you put it. You can control that if you think your property tax is too high go live somewhere without hospitals, parks, schools, roads etc. and I bet you will pay next to nothing in property tax!

The problem with your "HST is fairer" point is that all people need to eat, people need clothes, people need things like medications and other necessities, all these things were PST exempt but not HST... so you see by your own point the HST is not a fairer tax.
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#103 Wetcoaster

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

Nope - I don't own a black light...besides...I thought we are supposed to trust science?

"
Understanding Radio Frequency and BC Hydro's Smart Meters

Safety is our top priority for BC Hydro and is an important focus of the Smart Metering Program. That's why we have reviewed the scientific research related to radio frequency based technology. After decades of research, there are no demonstrable health or environmental effects from exposure to low level radio frequency signals. Here are the facts about smart meters and their low level radio frequency:"

http://www.bchydro.c...rtmeters_safety

:picard:

Try highlighting my post with your mousie...

And see my earlier post.
http://forum.canucks...0#entry11132708

Edited by Wetcoaster, 15 February 2013 - 12:47 PM.

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#104 Heretic

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:54 PM

:picard:

Try highlighting my post with your mousie...

And see my earlier post.
http://forum.canucks...0#entry11132708


Okay - obviously I wasn't paying attention to that.
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#105 silverpig

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

The problem with that is the less that is spent - the less that is collected in tax - and cuts are then required. Consumer based taxation depends on people spending.


No. The problem with a consumption tax is poor people spend 100% of what they make, so they get taxed the full 12%. Rich people spend a smaller portion of what they make (because they can afford to save etc), so they pay less than 12%. In absolute terms though, the rich would still pay more money.

That being said, the HST is still good policy
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#106 BurnabyJoe

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:15 PM

I have no problem with smart meters, they make a whole ton of sense. Mines currently 2 1/2 meters directly behind my head every night and I don't care.

Why? Because even if the radiation is bad, is it any different than the radiation we currently are bathed in on a daily basis? WiFi, Cellphones, heck even TV's and microwaves. What about wireless land line phones?

That being said the government has no right to force this potentially dangerous meter on anybodies home without the home owner's approval. It's an infringement on freedom and liberty. Just install wired meters?
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#107 Wetcoaster

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

I have no problem with smart meters, they make a whole ton of sense. Mines currently 2 1/2 meters directly behind my head every night and I don't care.

Why? Because even if the radiation is bad, is it any different than the radiation we currently are bathed in on a daily basis? WiFi, Cellphones, heck even TV's and microwaves. What about wireless land line phones?

That being said the government has no right to force this potentially dangerous meter on anybodies home without the home owner's approval. It's an infringement on freedom and liberty. Just install wired meters?

The only potential danger is in someone's addled pate.
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#108 DonLever

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:46 AM

No. The problem with a consumption tax is poor people spend 100% of what they make, so they get taxed the full 12%. Rich people spend a smaller portion of what they make (because they can afford to save etc), so they pay less than 12%. In absolute terms though, the rich would still pay more money.

That being said, the HST is still good policy


But Poor People gets the HST rebate which can be more than $1000 a year for families. They won't be hurt that bad or not at all.

Edited by DonLever, 16 February 2013 - 01:47 AM.

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#109 DonLever

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:59 AM

Property tax is a fair taxation as you put it. You can control that if you think your property tax is too high go live somewhere without hospitals, parks, schools, roads etc. and I bet you will pay next to nothing in property tax!

The problem with your "HST is fairer" point is that all people need to eat, people need clothes, people need things like medications and other necessities, all these things were PST exempt but not HST... so you see by your own point the HST is not a fairer tax.


Clothes is the same tax of 12% under either HST or PST/GST. And Prescription Drugs are HST exempt.
Absolutely amazing the false information spreading by anti-HST organizations. And people bought it too!

One time I heard someone on talk radio say he will pay more tax on buying a vaccum cleaner because he now has to pay 12% tax.
How to believe that guy can't add 2 and 2 together.
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#110 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:51 AM

Clothes is the same tax of 12% under either HST or PST/GST. And Prescription Drugs are HST exempt.
Absolutely amazing the false information spreading by anti-HST organizations. And people bought it too!

One time I heard someone on talk radio say he will pay more tax on buying a vaccum cleaner because he now has to pay 12% tax.
How to believe that guy can't add 2 and 2 together.

He was taught math by The Zalm?
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#111 silverpig

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

But Poor People gets the HST rebate which can be more than $1000 a year for families. They won't be hurt that bad or not at all.


Yep. So the problem with the consumption tax is addressed.
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#112 Harbinger

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:49 PM

Yep. So the problem with the consumption tax is addressed.



That does absolutely nothing. Poor people aren't saving this money in hopes to offset their losses. They spend it immediately. Then for the other 361 days of the year they pay more for everything. So they get to be kings for 4 days a year and a little more hungry for the rest of them.. Rebate cheques are the most worthless way of helping people.

Edited by Harbinger, 16 February 2013 - 03:50 PM.

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#113 enforcer22

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:28 AM

I have no problem with smart meters, they make a whole ton of sense. Mines currently 2 1/2 meters directly behind my head every night and I don't care.

Why? Because even if the radiation is bad, is it any different than the radiation we currently are bathed in on a daily basis? WiFi, Cellphones, heck even TV's and microwaves. What about wireless land line phones?

That being said the government has no right to force this potentially dangerous meter on anybodies home without the home owner's approval. It's an infringement on freedom and liberty. Just install wired meters?


Disagree with your assessment on the Dangers : http://www.kelownaca.../191448031.html but totally agree with the second part.
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#114 enforcer22

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:48 PM

Nope - I don't own a black light...besides...I thought we are supposed to trust science?

"
Understanding Radio Frequency and BC Hydro's Smart Meters

Safety is our top priority for BC Hydro and is an important focus of the Smart Metering Program. That's why we have reviewed the scientific research related to radio frequency based technology. After decades of research, there are no demonstrable health or environmental effects from exposure to low level radio frequency signals. Here are the facts about smart meters and their low level radio frequency:"

http://www.bchydro.c...rtmeters_safety


Funny, Canada's Safety Code Six, is a JOKE. Many companies have been hiding behind it for years : http://www.magdahava...hermal-effects/

I also don't listen to the corporation that is FORCING this on us, as to the health concerns. There is a definite conflict of interest there. There is also the World Health Organizations UPDATED views and warnings involving the health concerns for Microwave radiation.
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#115 enforcer22

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:18 PM

II am willing to bet Hydros plans to rip off B.C. Residents, has something to do with this : http://www.cbc.ca/ne...#socialcomments . Yeah Hydro is a stand up and honest corporation alright.
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#116 lowest common denominator

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:26 PM

Actually no it's not, ...... It's time for better more efficient technology.

I have a problem with the NDP who always just side on what the public complains at just for popularity... Mark my word when the NDP win the election most of the middle and low class people in the province will be happy (for 1 or 2 years) and our struggling economy and increased deficit will be the end result (for many years to come).



slight edit, hope you don't mind

Edited by scottiecanuck, 25 February 2013 - 08:28 PM.

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#117 silverpig

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:57 PM

II am willing to bet Hydros plans to rip off B.C. Residents, has something to do with this : http://www.cbc.ca/ne...#socialcomments . Yeah Hydro is a stand up and honest corporation alright.


How is it a rip off? BC pays some of the lowest electricity rates in North America. BC is 6.8 cents / kWh, and goes up to 10 cents after 1350 kWh. Quebec is cheaper. Most places in North America are around 15 cents. Some are over 20 cents. Check out the data:

http://www.hydroqueb...ces/index.html#

From the comments on your link: "Where is the detail on how Enron was involved? Powerex sold power to Enron and.....?

What about all the money California owes BC Hydro and hasn't paid?

Anyways - I suspect this will be tied up in the courts for some time. It sure would be nice to see an investigative piece on BC Hydro and all of it subsidiaries and accounts, a balance sheet etc.....Looks like we are going to be "double speaked" again."
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#118 enforcer22

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

How is it a rip off? BC pays some of the lowest electricity rates in North America. BC is 6.8 cents / kWh, and goes up to 10 cents after 1350 kWh. Quebec is cheaper. Most places in North America are around 15 cents. Some are over 20 cents. Check out the data:

http://www.hydroqueb...ces/index.html#

From the comments on your link: "Where is the detail on how Enron was involved? Powerex sold power to Enron and.....?

What about all the money California owes BC Hydro and hasn't paid?

Anyways - I suspect this will be tied up in the courts for some time. It sure would be nice to see an investigative piece on BC Hydro and all of it subsidiaries and accounts, a balance sheet etc.....Looks like we are going to be "double speaked" again."

How is it a rip off? BC pays some of the lowest electricity rates in North America. BC is 6.8 cents / kWh, and goes up to 10 cents after 1350 kWh. Quebec is cheaper. Most places in North America are around 15 cents. Some are over 20 cents. Check out the data:

http://www.hydroqueb...ces/index.html#

From the comments on your link: "Where is the detail on how Enron was involved? Powerex sold power to Enron and.....?

What about all the money California owes BC Hydro and hasn't paid?

Anyways - I suspect this will be tied up in the courts for some time. It sure would be nice to see an investigative piece on BC Hydro and all of it subsidiaries and accounts, a balance sheet etc.....Looks like we are going to be "double speaked" again."


Wait until they actually turn the system ON, and introduce peak hour usage fees (which they say won't happen), then see. This will be proven before this time next year. I have no idea what OPINIONS of the posters commenting on that site, have to do with anything, Hydro already lost the case, there is nothing else to say about it.. As for the Enron comment, he obviously did not understand why Enron was used as an example : http://en.wikipedia....i/Enron_scandal I would suggest he read up on it, hers some more info : http://gangstersout....meter-scam.html . Regardless of what our prices are now, Residents all over BC have already been ripped off :http://www.straight.com/news/restaurant-owner-says-electricity-bill-has-doubled-bc-hydro-installed-smart-meter (there are plenty of examples on line to see) It is not to hard to see what will happen with overcharging BC Residents. There is plenty of cases of doubled and even tripled bills since the meters were installed, in different Provinces : http://www.optimumen...r-for-accuracy/ There is also info on time of use billing on the article. More Time of use billing from other Provinces after Smart Meters were installed : http://www.londonhyd...ectricityrates/ . Some more info, showing what is in store for BC, as it's the same technology, and the same problems in EVERY Province and Countries where the meters have been installed : http://www.forbes.co...g-californians/ (U.S) http://www.emfacts.c...ustralia-video/ (great info on Australia) if you like reading the comments, I suggest you read the comments on that page. ALL of this info given HAS happened already, so please feel free to show me any facts given to the public from sources OTHER than the corporations responsible for forcing the meters on us (conflict of interest) that shows BC are not/won't get ripped off (besides Hydro saying we won't do it : http://thetyee.ca/Bl...tMeterConcerns/ ) BC Hydro has already shown in many ways how honest they have been from the start of the program, so sorry if I don't drink their Kool-Aid.

Also on a side note, why does Quebec allow an opt out, but B.C. does not? This whole Smart Meter Program is a $Billion+ is nothing more than criminal.

Edited by enforcer22, 26 February 2013 - 09:01 PM.

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#119 iwtl

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:57 AM

There is nothing to disagree about. You are seeing something that does not exist.


I can think of no better comment that reflects the right wing in BC. The intolerance that response displays makes it clear that they feel no opinion other than ones own is the only correct one and makes me proud to have served and of those that are or will. Democracy demands that all opinions are equally permitted to be voiced. In order to have democracy the flag burners and the intolrent need to have their say equally as every one else. For its only through equal rights that we in fact have rights.

So you are welcome to your opinions and more than welcome to debate mine. But I will not permit you to imply that unless you agree with my opinion it is either wrong or not permited.

One of my History teachers provided a quote ( no idea who gets credit ) that has stuck for a life time.

Anyone who practices exclusion or intolrance by definition has set the path to extinction.

The BC Liberals by refusing to even consider other opinions - others beliefs - accept that it is a right of others to see things differently - have indeed begun the path to extinction much in the same manner that the socreds did and Mulroneys Conservatives did. We can agree or disagree on the impact of the above - but the above thoughts are my opinion .... and one that I think is accuratly reflected in the state of BC politics at this time. The only thing I am not sure is which party will this current right wing party move to if the election goes really bad for them. If they do not win or come close I am of the opinion that we will see a newly named right wing party for the next election. Love them or hate them atleast the NDP stood by their party name and rebuilt instead of rebranding. And back to the thread heading - the NDP have commited to have the proper regulatory body provide a report before making a firm response - the comment from the article is

"Horgan makes no promises, other than to say an NDP government would turn the whole mess over to the B.C. Utilities Commission for an independent review."

The heading has been sensationilzed for effect. Had the Heading read "NDP will if elected turn the entire matter over to the BC Commision for an independent review" ... well that wouldn't had the impact the writer of that article wanted.

The reported might as well ask the BC Liberals - "if elected would you stop stealing money?". Then only accept yes or no answers. It would make great headlines but wouldn't be honest or correct. Asking the NDP yes or no on removal on smart meters is basically the same - without having an indipendant review it would be irresponsible for a reasonable person to commit to a yes/no response and I am glad that despite being an unpopular response that the NDP critic gave the correct answer and not what the popular answer was.
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#120 iwtl

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

Clothes is the same tax of 12% under either HST or PST/GST. And Prescription Drugs are HST exempt.
Absolutely amazing the false information spreading by anti-HST organizations. And people bought it too!

One time I heard someone on talk radio say he will pay more tax on buying a vaccum cleaner because he now has to pay 12% tax.
How to believe that guy can't add 2 and 2 together.


An article from the globe and mail ( not a well known politicaly left orginization )

http://m.theglobeand...?service=mobile

From that article a few quotes if I may

"However, their study added that low-income families with annual earnings below $10,000 - about 15 per cent of the B.C. total - are actually better off under the HST because of government rebates they receive."

So you are correct that families below $10,000 per year are better off and that reflects 15% of the working population according to that article. Forget that it is frightning that 15% of the working population is earning that far below the poverty level - full time at minimum wage is $21,000 a year. So those working poor who work full time are not included in that articles panels identified as being better off

From that article is the following quote

" It clearly shows the average family is going to spend hundreds of dollars extra because of HST," Mr. Tieleman said. "It shows the job creation the government suggested would happen isn't happening. And it shows the government is making oodles and oodles of money - more than $800-million a year, when they said it would be revenue neutral. This is excellent news for us."

So it clearly identifies that the BC goverment will be collecting alot more taxes - so consumers in fact are paying over 800 million + per year in further tax costs directly at the till. So where many items remained the same - Nearly a Billion more was added

From that article is the following quote

"The panel estimated that HST is costing B.C. families an average of $350 more a year."

That confirms that it was costing more out of pocket expense


From the article is the following quote

" I don't know what the answer is yet. We recognize there is an additional impact [on many families]" Mr. Falcon said."

So the goverment knew it was taking more money out of the pockets of the average family - costs to them did go up over the former PST

The point of my issue is - the BC Liberals had decided the correct opinion was "the HST is great" and no matter who raised a concern or disagreed - sticking to their opinion become more important that accepting that just maybe - some of the other opinons where valid and real. I see that played out here alot.

We can agree or disagree on issues - but when others become intolrent to others opinions - nothing productive comes of it.

I get the HST was better for businuess - I get the HST raised a ton more taxes - I get that goverment banked on businuess re investing the HST savings back into jobs and wages ( didn't happen but that's another debate ). However all along I said they where to blame for the HST's defeat because instead of accepting that they just might be wrong and working with people - they kept to the party line and the Fer us or Against us. Imagine if the BC Liberals had gone on tv with that report and said something like " Sorry folks - your right the HST will add to your costs and this is what we are going to do to correct that". Instead they simply said they had staged planned reductions in place ... Both might have had the same end cost but by telling the others they where wrong and mis informed for daring to have an opinion .... well we know how that ended.

So other than Mr. Tieleman's response within the article on their findings - the rest has no input from the Zalm or NDP. It does state that there would be some positives which are a good thing - but also that the benefits where over stated and clarifying for working people it would not be revenue neutral ( would cost more ). The only people I know at or below 10k per year are students - very limited part time jobs, people on social assistance. I beleive most retired would be at or above that amount with collecting both aspects of CPP/Security with only a smaller portion being below.
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps






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