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Understand

Toughness proves to be a winning formula

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Except we already have 5 minute pugilists on the 4th line.......just not very good ones.

Also Burrows has been put back with the Twins. Even if Kassian moves back into 1st line spot, any mistake he mistakes AV will switch him out. This is been the case so far this year.

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We can all see what this team is lacking, how can you be so naive :picard: . I stand by my beliefs, and whether or not you agree or disagree, the Canucks will suffer the consequences if they don't acquire this key component that most NHL Stanley Cup winning teams have already done. The game is evolving and players are faster and stronger. And although It might not seem necessary to you, It is to the Canucks. The Sedins will be targeted constantly. If you can shut the Sedins down, then most likely you'll win. Think about it <_<

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@Wondertwinpowers

Volpatti has ONE goal in each of his 3 seasons with the Canuck's. He only had TWO goals in almost a full season in the AHL....

Weise has 1 point this year and had 8 all of last year.

I actually think Patti is a great fighter, but a light/middle weight who is not able to handle the heavies of the league.

Andy Sutton may be huge, but he is far from an established fighter, beaten in almost every fight with a legitimate opponent. Brad Winchester is also no goon, a decent fighter but nothing special. Belesky is the same size as Patti and is fighting because that is the only way he stays up with the big club (was not a fighter previously, low PIMS, look up his stats).

If you are going to ice an enforcer, might as well ice one of the biggest and baddest that has the ability to intimidate and act as a deterrent.

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@Wondertwinpowers

Volpatti has ONE goal in each of his 3 seasons with the Canuck's. He only had TWO goals in almost a full season in the AHL....

Weise has 1 point this year and had 8 all of last year.

I actually think Patti is a great fighter, but a light/middle weight who is not able to handle the heavies of the league.

Andy Sutton may be huge, but he is far from an established fighter, beaten in almost every fight with a legitimate opponent. Brad Winchester is also no goon, a decent fighter but nothing special. Belesky is the same size as Patti and is fighting because that is the only way he stays up with the big club (was not a fighter previously, low PIMS, look up his stats).

If you are going to ice an enforcer, might as well ice one of the biggest and baddest that has the ability to intimidate and act as a deterrent.

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Yeah but my argument is to not ice someone strictly as an enforcer, Volpatti and Weise are actual hockey players not enforcers and can PK and can give you 8-10 minutes of play without being a liability. And still stand up for teammates and bring energy.

You claim we need a heavyweight a Chris Neil or David Clarkson, who are both THE EXACT same size as Patti and Weise.

And you make it sound like Patti's got 1 goal in 3 full seasons he's got 3 goals in 50 games and 1 assist (which was actually pretty nice), not that bad for a 4th liner. As for Weise 8 points in his first full NHL season as a 4th liner... Also pretty good. How many points you think John Scott would add in that scenario?

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I never said we needed a Neil or Clarkson, and it would take way too much to get them. That would be a luxury at this point.

Also Patti doesn't skill penalties. He brings to the table the same things a guy like Parros or Orr (who btw played over 10 minutes last night in the Leafs win) which is hitting and fighting, nothing else. He also plays the exact amount of time as these "goons" you are so against having, averaging 4-8 minutes this year.

Yes, Weise is a little bit of a better player, who has put up good numbers in the minors, but it has not translated here. Sure he is fast, but a horrible fighter and average hitter at best.

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Except we already have 5 minute pugilists on the 4th line.......just not very good ones.

Also Burrows has been put back with the Twins. Even if Kassian moves back into 1st line spot, any mistake he mistakes AV will switch him out. This is been the case so far this year.

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VERY TRUE! If we are going to waste a spot on 5 min pugilists like Weise or Volplatti, why not waste it on guys like Orr, Parros? Guys like Orr, Eager etc can stake as fast as Weise or Volplatti, but they can also fight and hit HEAVY! If you are trying to argue that Weise or Volplatti have better hands than Orr or other legit tough guys, you better back it up with statisitcs.

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Ummm okay. In his first full season (rookie) last year (78 games) Weise had nearly half as many points 8, as Coltan Orr has had his entire NHL career (350+games)which is 20 same for Parros (420 games 30 points)

In the AHL Weise has

111 points in 194 games

Parros

32 points in 134 games

Coltan Orr

15 points in 152 games

There you go statistics. If you still think he doesn't have better hands then you're just being ignorant of the stats. Ontop of this Weise is 24, and going to get better. Orr and Parros are 30 plus and are going to regress.

Volpatti seems to be favored between Weise and himself and he still has.

4 points in 50NHL games which would put him roughly on pace with both Parros and Orr. While providing all the same qualities so why get rid of him

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Yes, Weise, by far, is more skilled then everyone listed. But putting up good numbers in the AHL means nothing when you can't translate that to the next level.

Zenon Konopka put up 55 points in 62 games and 57 points in 70 games in his last 2 years of playing in the minors before sticking in the NHL permanently. Yet in a full season, his highest point total is 9. His role is to fight and win face-offs, plain and simple.

So that isn't saying much.

Weise may have the edge in skill, but while playing on the 4th line any skill set he may possess or has potential for will be underutilized when hitting and fighting are the primary role.

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Yes, Weise, by far, is more skilled then everyone listed. But putting up good numbers in the AHL means nothing when you can't translate that to the next level.

Zenon Konopka put up 55 points in 62 games and 57 points in 70 games in his last 2 years of playing in the minors before sticking in the NHL permanently. Yet in a full season, his highest point total is 9. His role is to fight and win face-offs, plain and simple.

So that isn't saying much.

Weise may have the edge in skill, but while playing on the 4th line any skill set he may possess or has potential for will be underutilized when hitting and fighting are the primary role.

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Yeah we do.

The only team tougher than us to win a cup since the lockout is Boston.

LA wasn't any tougher than us, guys like Nolan and King and Fraser are guys who can play and bring grit and will fight, not goons, and we have guys like that: Weise, Volpatti, Lappierre.

Anaheim had that shutdown line that was just clutch for them, that was really the key to there success.

Chicago didn't have toughness like you want, niether did Pittsburgh, Detriot or Carolina.

Goaltending is the key, not toughness. It's no surprise to me the last 2 Conn Smythe winners have been goaltenders.

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Chicago was tougher. Played bigger because of Butfyglen, Bolland, etc.

Anaheim was tougher. Grittier.

LA was too.

Detroit in many ways was tougher as well. Took tons of abuse and kept rolling.

Pitt not so tough.

Were those teams packed with fighters? Nope. Can Bolland kick Kesler's ass? Yep. Can Buttfyglin kick Bieksa's ass? Yep. Can Patty Kane kick Burr's ass? Anyone can kick Burr's ass. He's a hair puller and a diver.

No. It's not fighting alone. It's being able to back up your between-the-whistle nonsense. It's being able to call your opponent out with the knowledge that he actually is intimidated by it because he knows you are, indeed, tougher than he is. It's the stuff you're not afraid to do because you know you can whoop the other guy if it came to that.

The Canucks aren't he right kind of tough, IMO. There have been moves made in the right direction in past couple of seasons, but we're not there yet.

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Chicago was tougher. Played bigger because of Butfyglen, Bolland, etc.

Anaheim was tougher. Grittier.

LA was too.

Detroit in many ways was tougher as well. Took tons of abuse and kept rolling.

Pitt not so tough.

Were those teams packed with fighters? Nope. Can Bolland kick Kesler's ass? Yep. Can Buttfyglin kick Bieksa's ass? Yep. Can Patty Kane kick Burr's ass? Anyone can kick Burr's ass. He's a hair puller and a diver.

No. It's not fighting alone. It's being able to back up your between-the-whistle nonsense. It's being able to call your opponent out with the knowledge that he actually is intimidated by it because he knows you are, indeed, tougher than he is. It's the stuff you're not afraid to do because you know you can whoop the other guy if it came to that.

The Canucks aren't he right kind of tough, IMO. There have been moves made in the right direction in past couple of seasons, but we're not there yet.

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It's the only way they know how to win against us. We outmatch most of the teams in every aspect of the game in skill except intimidation. Teams play dirty with us because they know they can get away with it. Enough is enough.

Chicago, Anaheim and LA must be doing something right. All three teams beat the Canucks and all three won the Stanley Cup in doing so. Doesn't that tell you something?

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LOL, the truculence sure worked out for them the last, oh I don't know, 20 years since they last made the playoffs?

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To be fair Chicago would be a dynasty team right now if there was no salary cap, the team they had to win the cup was one of the deepest we've seen in the modern age. Anahiem beat up a young and fairly inexperienced Canucks team plus I believe the D pairing of Pronger and Scott Neidermayer probably helped quite a bit. And L.A had a goaltender go on a crazy run, they didn't really beat up the Canucks that bad. Not nearly as bad as Boston anyways. I'd compare Dwight King and Jordan Nolan their supposed tough guys to Volpatti and Weise. Good grinders who hit and bring energy and fight when need be.

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Point is, the Canucks are the most hated team in the league. LA, Anaheim, Chicago and Boston weren't so much, which is why they got away with playing the way they did. Canucks on the other hand have tried many times. No dice. When they meet a bigger team they get pushed around. It's time for a change. Why can you not just accept this. Don't get me wrong I like Volpatti and Weise but we need to add another dimension to our game. I don't mind rotating them in and out of the lineup. I never said they were bad players.

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