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Toughness proves to be a winning formula


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#31 Kola Nuts

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:21 AM

Mark Fraser, Colton Orr, Frazer McLaren, Mike Brown, Dino Phaneuf, Franson


Kassian, Lappierre, Volpatti, Weise, Bieksa, Vandemeer (if called up)

Nucks have the grit they need.
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#32 Rypien37

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:27 AM

Kassian, Lappierre, Volpatti, Weise, Bieksa, Vandemeer (if called up)

Nucks have the grit they need.


Lapierre and Weise are both punching bags. Bieksa rarely fights and picks his spots. Vandy will have a hard time playing with 8 D in front of him.
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#33 Rypien37

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:32 AM

I don't think Horton should be in there... he's apart of the trickle down effect like marchand -- only acts tough and then gets others to back him up.


Horton is 6'2 229 and has fought some tougher guys, including Rinaldo last year.

I could also add Boychuk to that list as well.
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#34 Understand

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

Lapierre and Weise are both punching bags. Bieksa rarely fights and picks his spots. Vandy will have a hard time playing with 8 D in front of him.


Lapierre and Weise are tough? LOL....I will be less funny if you say they are fast skater, but tough? lol.....
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#35 DeNiro

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:06 PM

Lapierre and Weise are tough? LOL....I will be less funny if you say they are fast skater, but tough? lol.....


He said they were punching bags...

That's means he doesn't think they're tough.

Canucks will acquire toughness at the deadline. As of right now, it's not hurting our chances of winning.
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#36 Rypien37

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:26 PM

Lapierre and Weise are tough? LOL....I will be less funny if you say they are fast skater, but tough? lol.....


LOL reading comprehension bud....
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#37 Jägermeister

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

And yet our soft little Canucks are ahead of them in the standings :emot-parrot:
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#38 Rypien37

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:28 PM

And yet our soft little Canucks are ahead of them in the standings :emot-parrot:


How many cups have our soft little Canuck's one?
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#39 Jägermeister

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

How many cups have our soft little Canuck's one?


The same amount the big tough Leafs have won since we came in the league.
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#40 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

CANUCKS ARE NOT SOFT tougness and skill---> just tougness

Edited by canuck_trevor16, 13 February 2013 - 03:50 PM.

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One day some of us will look back on the year and look at the chicago, and most of us will realize that it was a small bump in the road to the cup


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#41 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:20 PM

Look at the Leafs since they added toughness into their lineup....now sitting 4th in the league.

With Mark Fraser, Colton Orr, Frazer McLaren, Mike Brown, Dino Phaneuf, Franson etc, the Leafs are now one of the toughest team in the NHL. I don't think even the Bruins can intimdate them.



The Leafs looked great beating up the Habs the other night. Dominated them physically. I think Carlyle and Nonis are on right track, beasts win playoff series not soccer player types. Having that much sandpaper in the lineup is the way to go imo.



Toughness comes out in the playoffs when the whistles get put away. This is why we will continue to lose, no matter how much success we have in the regular season.

Mark my words, same thing will happen in April/May just like the last few years past. Team's know how to win against the Canuck's is with toughness and intimidation.

It's a shame. This is a great team and it is being limited/exposed by this one underlying factor.


i agree 100% This team needs to add a couple monsters for the playoff run at the minimum.
I have faith in Gillis but it's time to get serious and add the muscle this organization desperately needs.

That's why I always say Canucks need another top 9 forward who brings size and toughness and a Right Handed Dman who can clear the crease.

Brouwer would do wonders for this team. Plus a Dman like Gerald Diduck of 94.


cosign !!

We had a chance to sign Parros as a UFA this summer.


We need one more goon but one that can play.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#42 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

The Leafs looked great beating up the Habs the other night. Dominated them physically. I think Carlyle and Nonis are on right track, beasts win playoff series not soccer player types. Having that much sandpaper in the lineup is the way to go imo.


Well congrats to the Leafs they pushed around the tiniest team in the league, and the only team in there division to finish worse then themselves last season. Call me when they push around the Bruins or the Rangers and maybe ill drink the cool aide.

And technically Burke would be on the right track seeing as Nonis has done nothing and Carlyle was Burkes hiring.


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#43 Salmonberries

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:02 PM

Toughness comes out in the playoffs when the whistles get put away. This is why we will continue to lose, no matter how much success we have in the regular season.

Mark my words, same thing will happen in April/May just like the last few years past. Team's know how to win against the Canuck's is with toughness and intimidation.

It's a shame. This is a great team and it is being limited/exposed by this one underlying factor.

Bingo, the Gillis pacifist ideology is all that's preventing us from winning a cup. Just adding those two extra muscle guys that can play on the fourth line would do it. Not beating up Duncan Kieth sent out the signal that we're going to take another beating this year.
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#44 Rypien37

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:05 AM

The same amount the big tough Leafs have won since we came in the league.


I never said the Leafs were tough, that was the OP.

Also, toughness isn't a remedy for having an overall bad team and bad management.
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#45 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

as far as I know, Brian Burke has been adding toughness to his team since 2008. Since then his team missed the playoffs 4 straight times, not once did his team come close to making the playoffs. Faaaaar from a winning formula
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November 20th 2013, Canucks just lost their 5th straight game. Last time this happened the Canucks, they missed the playoffs.

#46 garthsbutcher

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

That's exactly what I mean....if we have a forth liner who can't fight but put on 15 points a season, that's OK. We continue to fool ourselves by saying that our 4th liner are better than other teams who have legit enforcrers, but at the end of the year, the stats can't back that up. Our 4th liners such as Volpatti or Weise are no better than guys like Thronton, Orr, etc.


A voice of reason, our 4th liners are actually significantly worse than a Thornton, Konopka ect. If you are going to play 4-6 minutes why not have an actual heavyweight in the lineup!!! The days of the kings and Hawks running at the twins would be over very quickly.
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#47 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:06 PM

no enforcers are useless take penalties it will cost us game.........see Ben Eager he cost the sharks the WCF because of bad penalty..........we will never have some useless player in the fourth line GO CHEER FOR A NEW TEam

Skill--->Enforcers who take penalty and cost games
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One day some of us will look back on the year and look at the chicago, and most of us will realize that it was a small bump in the road to the cup


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#48 Salmonberries

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:20 PM

no enforcers are useless take penalties it will cost us game.........see Ben Eager he cost the sharks the WCF because of bad penalty..........we will never have some useless player in the fourth line GO CHEER FOR A NEW TEam

Skill--->Enforcers who take penalty and cost games

But not when skill is out with a concussion from a blatant head shot.

That's how you play 'skill' in the playoffs.
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#49 Understand

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

no enforcers are useless take penalties it will cost us game.........see Ben Eager he cost the sharks the WCF because of bad penalty..........we will never have some useless player in the fourth line GO CHEER FOR A NEW TEam

Skill--->Enforcers who take penalty and cost games


Skills > Enforcers, true. However, enforces > Weise and Voplatti coz they don't have skills. How many points do Weise or Voplatti have? And how many do guys like Orr, Thornton have? Pretty much the same.......however, Orr and Thornton actually bring something to the table.
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#50 pwnstar

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:55 AM

Look at the Leafs since they added toughness into their lineup....now sitting 4th in the league.

With Mark Fraser, Colton Orr, Frazer McLaren, Mike Brown, Dino Phaneuf, Franson etc, the Leafs are now one of the toughest team in the NHL. I don't think even the Bruins can intimdate them.


Orr is a beast
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#51 Vansicle

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

This. The Leafs are winning because they are getting contribution from their youngsters. They have more depth on their roster than they have had in years. Toughness is but a small component of a winning team, depth matters a lot more.

But toughness does matter. It is a part of depth. You can't have a team full of just fast guys. You can't have a team full of just defensive guys. You can't have a team full of just tough guys. Etc.

In order to get a job done you need a tool box that has variety, not just 200 different kinds of screwdrivers; Sometimes you need a jackhammer. You can't crush concrete with a screwdriver, just as you can't drive a screw with a palm sander.

Edited by Vansicle, 15 February 2013 - 10:57 AM.

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no duh.

You win the internet, EOM.

#52 Vansicle

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

Kassian, Lappierre, Volpatti, Weise, Bieksa, Vandemeer (if called up)

Nucks have the grit they need.

That list has exactly zero people shaking in their boots.
Grit ≠ Toughness
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no duh.

You win the internet, EOM.

#53 SamJamIam

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:28 AM

This whole conversation is moot because the only people still saying we're soft are people who are parroting what was said last year. We don't have people bowling over our goalies, our team is clearing the crease exceptionally well (which is the real reason Schneids and Luo look so amazing out there) and we throw down whenever it suits us. Kass gave Eager a concussion with 2 punches. Anaheim tried gooning it up with us to no avail (they just got frustrated). Minnesota got free reign from the refs to slash, board, hold and do whatever they liked to us last game and they still couldn't pull it out. Toughness is not an issue.
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#54 hockeyking

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:08 PM

Bingo, the Gillis pacifist ideology is all that's preventing us from winning a cup. Just adding those two extra muscle guys that can play on the fourth line would do it. Not beating up Duncan Kieth sent out the signal that we're going to take another beating this year.

you can't beat up someone who doesn't want to fight and you can't hit someone as allusive as Keith. Unless you are going to jump him like bert did to moore but I really doubt you will find a fourth liner who has 50 million dollars to give away for ending his career It will not matter how many tough guys you got not one is going to fight Keith.
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#55 Salmonberries

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:35 PM

you can't beat up someone who doesn't want to fight and you can't hit someone as allusive as Keith. Unless you are going to jump him like bert did to moore but I really doubt you will find a fourth liner who has 50 million dollars to give away for ending his career It will not matter how many tough guys you got not one is going to fight Keith.

Every incidence of 'payback' in the NHL is Bertuzzi/Moore now? We can rationalize the beating in the playoffs that the Sedins will take all we want but a beating they will take if we don't add muscle for the playoffs. And Gillis won't.
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#56 Caboose

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

Canucks tougness is far superior to the leafs at least canucks can score hit unlike the leafs which can do all three


This season Toronto has 40 goals for Vancouver has 38.

Toronto's team is indisputably tougher than the Canucks, don't even attempt to make that argument, and Leo Komarov is third in the league in hits with 52, 15 more than the highest Canuck.

But, this will all be lost on you.
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#57 MikeBossy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

Pretty sure goal tending and team defence has been the winning formula for most if not all Cup winners.

With that said I do agree the Canucks need to dress a bonafide tough guy - problem is who gets sent down so Vandermeer can be called up. And he doesn't need to play defence - he has played forward in the past and I'd rather have him than Dale (I'm a punching bag) Weise on the 4th line.
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#58 Phil_314

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:51 PM

I won't disagree that toughness is a needed ingredient, but It's far from a proven formula. Since the lockout the only Anaheim Boston and LA have won the cup playing that style of hockey, if you look at Carolina, Detroit, Pittsburgh and Chicago they were more skill teams rather than tough teams.


Carolina: Brind'Amour, Weight, Staal, Ladd, Recchi, Cole were skilled but also gritty and were important components in providing scoring, while they had Whitney, Cullen, Justin Williams and Stillman who were able to provide play-off scoring depth, and they had tough checkers like the Adams, Vasicek and Larose. Ward won the Conn Smythe in net.

Detroit: Zetterberg (Won the Smythe), Datsyuk, Filppula, Franzen, Samuelsson, Holmstrom and Kopecky were the skilled top guys but they were also able to play tough; they also have Cleary, Drake, McCarty, Maltby, Helm and Hudler for depth guys (first bunch for grit, Hudler mainly for skill); their D was strong (Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Chelios, Kronwall...) plus Osgood ended the playoffs with 1.55 G.A.A. and .930 sv%

Chicago: Toews (Smythe), Byfuglien, Brouwer, Ladd, Versteeg were tough while they had Sharp, Kane, Hossa as skilled guys; Burish, Bolland, Madden, Kopecky were skilled tough depth guys too; they had Campbell, Keith, Seabrook as skilled main D-men while Boynton and Hjalmarsson were more defensive. Niemi did enough to get it done.

Pittsburgh: Malkin (Smythe!!), Crosby, J. Staal, Guerin, Kunitz, Cooke, Fedotenko were skilled and tough top guys; also had Talbot, Kennedy, Dupuis and Adams as tough depth and Sykora, Satan for skilled vets; tough D and puck-movers were the team mix (Gill, Scuderi, Eaton, Orpik for size with Letang, Gonchar, Goligoski, Boucher for skill); Fleury came up big somehow when the saves were needed.

It's a mixture of factors which are necessary to get the job done: clutch goal-tending, a seemingly distinct mixture of puck-movers and tough guys in the back end, veteran players throughout the roster (esp. up front) who are tough enough when it counts, with guys who are capable of stepping up their game when it really matters (i.e. inexpensive vet forwards who know what it takes to get it done would be able to step up in the clutch for depth); also, there's often one guy who puts the team on his back to get it done (Ward, Zetterberg, Toews, Malkin who stepped up and were awarded the Smythe). Toughness is important, but not also in having just a couple guys beat down the opposition; it's the entire team's drive to step up and persevere in adversity that really gives the team its toughness (though of course consistently someone in the roster stepped up when it counted, whether physically or offensively).
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#59 Hockey Coach12

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

Well, here is my take on this issue.
You don't have to have a team full of bruisers to win the Cup. The Nucks are positioned fairly well if the skilled guys would get back to scoring and putting more shots on net.
Now, I know I will get flamed for this but take a good look at the Hawks this year. They are off to a scorching start, and they have a few tough guys, but are winning games through skill and puck possession. They have Bollig, Brookbank and Roszival, but other than that, they really don't have much in the way of grit.
The magic formula to winning the cup is having a great balance and tons of team chemistry, guys that always know where their teammates are on the ice, so they can set them up for the score.
The Nucks have a great amount of skill, especially if Kes gets back to form soon, and I think that this team could make a real decent run at the Cup without adding a goon that takes up a roster spot.
Flame away.

Edited by Hockey Coach12, 16 February 2013 - 02:27 PM.

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#60 Boudrias

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

Toughness comes out in the playoffs when the whistles get put away. This is why we will continue to lose, no matter how much success we have in the regular season.

Mark my words, same thing will happen in April/May just like the last few years past. Team's know how to win against the Canuck's is with toughness and intimidation.

It's a shame. This is a great team and it is being limited/exposed by this one underlying factor.

Still trying to figure out what the Canucks were trying to do with their 4th line last night in the 3rd period? They seemed to go to the body after they went up 3 - 1 but maintained the puck possession game. The 4th line needed a dump & chase game which stressed defence. All 4 lines needed that for that matter. They seemed to lose focus.

All this said they did hit 4 goal posts. As you said tho this is regular season and playoffs are nothing like last night. Van is not big enough up front plain and simple.
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