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Toughness proves to be a winning formula


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#151 Rypien37

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

Ummm okay. In his first full season (rookie) last year (78 games) Weise had nearly half as many points 8, as Coltan Orr has had his entire NHL career (350+games)which is 20 same for Parros (420 games 30 points)

In the AHL Weise has
111 points in 194 games

Parros
32 points in 134 games

Coltan Orr
15 points in 152 games

There you go statistics. If you still think he doesn't have better hands then you're just being ignorant of the stats. Ontop of this Weise is 24, and going to get better. Orr and Parros are 30 plus and are going to regress.

Volpatti seems to be favored between Weise and himself and he still has.

4 points in 50NHL games which would put him roughly on pace with both Parros and Orr. While providing all the same qualities so why get rid of him


Yes, Weise, by far, is more skilled then everyone listed. But putting up good numbers in the AHL means nothing when you can't translate that to the next level.

Zenon Konopka put up 55 points in 62 games and 57 points in 70 games in his last 2 years of playing in the minors before sticking in the NHL permanently. Yet in a full season, his highest point total is 9. His role is to fight and win face-offs, plain and simple.

So that isn't saying much.

Weise may have the edge in skill, but while playing on the 4th line any skill set he may possess or has potential for will be underutilized when hitting and fighting are the primary role.
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#152 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:57 PM

Yes, Weise, by far, is more skilled then everyone listed. But putting up good numbers in the AHL means nothing when you can't translate that to the next level.

Zenon Konopka put up 55 points in 62 games and 57 points in 70 games in his last 2 years of playing in the minors before sticking in the NHL permanently. Yet in a full season, his highest point total is 9. His role is to fight and win face-offs, plain and simple.

So that isn't saying much.

Weise may have the edge in skill, but while playing on the 4th line any skill set he may possess or has potential for will be underutilized when hitting and fighting are the primary role.


This, people hype up his hands and stuff way too much, he's scored like one nice goal in his career in the NHL...he should be a 3rd liner on a weak team if he wants to play a different role then a 4th line grinder.
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#153 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:04 PM

Yes, Weise, by far, is more skilled then everyone listed. But putting up good numbers in the AHL means nothing when you can't translate that to the next level.

Zenon Konopka put up 55 points in 62 games and 57 points in 70 games in his last 2 years of playing in the minors before sticking in the NHL permanently. Yet in a full season, his highest point total is 9. His role is to fight and win face-offs, plain and simple.

So that isn't saying much.

Weise may have the edge in skill, but while playing on the 4th line any skill set he may possess or has potential for will be underutilized when hitting and fighting are the primary role.


Either way, I was challenged by Understand to find stats that back up Weise has better hands then Orr or Parros, which he does, and which I did so moving on.

He hasn't had much of a chance to translate it yet as he's only 24 and in his second season. But he does still fill his role which is to hit and fight and bring energy. He could be a good 3rd line guy here after another year or two. Especially since the team is notoriously weak on the right side. You could almost compare him to Hansen a couple seasons back, only he fights. Yes he has consistency issues (in taking the body every game) but as I've said in other threads so does 80% of the league minus the highest paid stars basically.

People basically say we should toss him cause he doesn't win every fight, or he doesn't initimdate anyone. But none the less he's an effective 4th liner that can move up the line up when needed and potentially play 10+ minutes for cheap. Adding a Parros or whoever we have to give up assets to acquire them, then pay them more when we're already going into the summer with cap problems
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#154 Vansicle

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

Yeah we do.

The only team tougher than us to win a cup since the lockout is Boston.

LA wasn't any tougher than us, guys like Nolan and King and Fraser are guys who can play and bring grit and will fight, not goons, and we have guys like that: Weise, Volpatti, Lappierre.

Anaheim had that shutdown line that was just clutch for them, that was really the key to there success.

Chicago didn't have toughness like you want, niether did Pittsburgh, Detriot or Carolina.

Goaltending is the key, not toughness. It's no surprise to me the last 2 Conn Smythe winners have been goaltenders.

Chicago was tougher. Played bigger because of Butfyglen, Bolland, etc.
Anaheim was tougher. Grittier.
LA was too.
Detroit in many ways was tougher as well. Took tons of abuse and kept rolling.
Pitt not so tough.

Were those teams packed with fighters? Nope. Can Bolland kick Kesler's ass? Yep. Can Buttfyglin kick Bieksa's ass? Yep. Can Patty Kane kick Burr's ass? Anyone can kick Burr's ass. He's a hair puller and a diver.
No. It's not fighting alone. It's being able to back up your between-the-whistle nonsense. It's being able to call your opponent out with the knowledge that he actually is intimidated by it because he knows you are, indeed, tougher than he is. It's the stuff you're not afraid to do because you know you can whoop the other guy if it came to that.
The Canucks aren't he right kind of tough, IMO. There have been moves made in the right direction in past couple of seasons, but we're not there yet.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#155 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:19 PM

Chicago was tougher. Played bigger because of Butfyglen, Bolland, etc.
Anaheim was tougher. Grittier.
LA was too.
Detroit in many ways was tougher as well. Took tons of abuse and kept rolling.
Pitt not so tough.

Were those teams packed with fighters? Nope. Can Bolland kick Kesler's ass? Yep. Can Buttfyglin kick Bieksa's ass? Yep. Can Patty Kane kick Burr's ass? Anyone can kick Burr's ass. He's a hair puller and a diver.
No. It's not fighting alone. It's being able to back up your between-the-whistle nonsense. It's being able to call your opponent out with the knowledge that he actually is intimidated by it because he knows you are, indeed, tougher than he is. It's the stuff you're not afraid to do because you know you can whoop the other guy if it came to that.
The Canucks aren't he right kind of tough, IMO. There have been moves made in the right direction in past couple of seasons, but we're not there yet.


Not sure if sarcastic....



Do you actually believe Burrows who's fought Scott Hannah, Jordan Tootoo, Dan Carcilo, Vincent Lecavalier, Brian Rolston, James Wiznouski (I'm aware that's not spelled right) would get his ass kicked by 5'8 180 pound (soaking wet) Patrick Kane??

Or that Kesler who's fought Iginla, Ryan Getzlaf, RJ Umberger and Andrew Ladd among others would "get his ass kicked" by Bolland...

I'd agree that no one I mentioned is a great fighter but compared to Bolland or Patrick Kane they're monsters in the fisticuffs department

Edited by WonderTwinPowers, 19 February 2013 - 03:29 PM.

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#156 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:34 PM

Chicago was tougher. Played bigger because of Butfyglen, Bolland, etc.
Anaheim was tougher. Grittier.
LA was too.
Detroit in many ways was tougher as well. Took tons of abuse and kept rolling.
Pitt not so tough.

Were those teams packed with fighters? Nope. Can Bolland kick Kesler's ass? Yep. Can Buttfyglin kick Bieksa's ass? Yep. Can Patty Kane kick Burr's ass? Anyone can kick Burr's ass. He's a hair puller and a diver.
No. It's not fighting alone. It's being able to back up your between-the-whistle nonsense. It's being able to call your opponent out with the knowledge that he actually is intimidated by it because he knows you are, indeed, tougher than he is. It's the stuff you're not afraid to do because you know you can whoop the other guy if it came to that.
The Canucks aren't he right kind of tough, IMO. There have been moves made in the right direction in past couple of seasons, but we're not there yet.


It's the only way they know how to win against us. We outmatch most of the teams in every aspect of the game in skill except intimidation. Teams play dirty with us because they know they can get away with it. Enough is enough.

Chicago, Anaheim and LA must be doing something right. All three teams beat the Canucks and all three won the Stanley Cup in doing so. Let's not forget about Boston too Doesn't that tell you something?

Edited by Brazen_Slugger, 19 February 2013 - 03:57 PM.

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#157 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:59 PM

It's the only way they know how to win against us. We outmatch most of the teams in every aspect of the game in skill except intimidation. Teams play dirty with us because they know they can get away with it. Enough is enough.

Chicago, Anaheim and LA must be doing something right. All three teams beat the Canucks and all three won the Stanley Cup in doing so. Doesn't that tell you something?


To be fair Chicago would be a dynasty team right now if there was no salary cap, the team they had to win the cup was one of the deepest we've seen in the modern age.

Anahiem beat up a young and fairly inexperienced Canucks team plus I believe the D pairing of Pronger and Scott Neidermayer probably helped quite a bit.

And L.A had a goaltender go on a crazy run, they didn't really beat up the Canucks that bad. Not nearly as bad as Boston anyways. I'd compare Dwight King and Jordan Nolan their supposed tough guys to Volpatti and Weise. Good grinders who hit and bring energy and fight when need be. Although both have regressed quite a bit this season, perhaps they'll go down as the kind of players that just have the one good post season.

Edited by WonderTwinPowers, 19 February 2013 - 04:04 PM.

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#158 Jai604

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:08 PM

LOL, the truculence sure worked out for them the last, oh I don't know, 20 years since they last made the playoffs?
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#159 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:09 PM

To be fair Chicago would be a dynasty team right now if there was no salary cap, the team they had to win the cup was one of the deepest we've seen in the modern age. Anahiem beat up a young and fairly inexperienced Canucks team plus I believe the D pairing of Pronger and Scott Neidermayer probably helped quite a bit. And L.A had a goaltender go on a crazy run, they didn't really beat up the Canucks that bad. Not nearly as bad as Boston anyways. I'd compare Dwight King and Jordan Nolan their supposed tough guys to Volpatti and Weise. Good grinders who hit and bring energy and fight when need be.


Point is, the Canucks are the most hated team in the league. LA, Anaheim, Chicago and Boston weren't so much, which is why they got away with playing the way they did. Canucks on the other hand have tried many times. No dice. When they meet a bigger team they get pushed around. It's time for a change. Why can you not just accept this. Don't get me wrong I like Volpatti and Weise but we need to add another dimension to our game. I don't mind rotating them in and out of the lineup. I never said they were bad players.
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#160 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:32 PM

Point is, the Canucks are the most hated team in the league. LA, Anaheim, Chicago and Boston weren't so much, which is why they got away with playing the way they did. Canucks on the other hand have tried many times. No dice. When they meet a bigger team they get pushed around. It's time for a change. Why can you not just accept this. Don't get me wrong I like Volpatti and Weise but we need to add another dimension to our game. I don't mind rotating them in and out of the lineup. I never said they were bad players.


So who do you suggest we acquire to do this then? What guy that'll only play 5 minutes do you think will change the tide for Vancouver? and what do we pay to acquire this individual?

I don't accept it's what we need because I don't believe it's what we need, as you've said in previous posts we're all entitled to our opinions.

I personally believe that this team really needs a 3/4th line LH centerman with some grit (Kyle Chipchura would be my choice) and/or a RH Dman with some size and grit (which is very rare in this league, which is strange with all the righties in the world) more then it needs a John Scott or a George Parros or Coltan Orr or anyone who's only going to play 5 minutes a game to fight another teams goon.

I'd much rather trade any future assets towards what I've mentioned then for a goon we'd probably have to overpay to acquire.

Some people say we should have claimed Matt Kassian but he just isn't an NHL calibre player so why carry him on our 23 man roster just to waive a Volpatti or Weise since they're going to be our extra forward now that Booths back.
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#161 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:48 PM

So who do you suggest we acquire to do this then? What guy that'll only play 5 minutes do you think will change the tide for Vancouver? and what do we pay to acquire this individual?

I don't accept it's what we need because I don't believe it's what we need, as you've said in previous posts we're all entitled to our opinions.

I personally believe that this team really needs a 3/4th line LH centerman with some grit (Kyle Chipchura would be my choice) and/or a RH Dman with some size and grit (which is very rare in this league, which is strange with all the righties in the world) more then it needs a John Scott or a George Parros or Coltan Orr or anyone who's only going to play 5 minutes a game to fight another teams goon.

I'd much rather trade any future assets towards what I've mentioned then for a goon we'd probably have to overpay to acquire.

Some people say we should have claimed Matt Kassian but he just isn't an NHL calibre player so why carry him on our 23 man roster just to waive a Volpatti or Weise since they're going to be our extra forward now that Booths back.


Guess we'll have to see what MG does on April 3 (trade deadline) All we can do right now is just speculate. If our secondary line isn't producing when Booth returns I'd be inclined to somehow try and get Voracek from Philadelphia (and trade Booth). Then a legit heavyweight and a right handed depth defenseman as you've stated. No to Chipchura. Schroeder makes that line click of Raymond and Hansen. And Lappierre is set on the 4th line. If Schroeder does falter later in the season, then we go after a 3rd line centerman. I'm sure there are better options than Chipchura. Im no GM but that seems about right.

Edited by Brazen_Slugger, 19 February 2013 - 04:49 PM.

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#162 DeNiro

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

Show me a team that wins because of toughness, and I'll show you one that doesn't win because of toughness.

Toughness helps, but you still need your skilled players, and goalies, to step up when it matters. We have yet to have our skilled players step up consistently in the playoffs, and that's why we haven't won it all yet.

It's a fine balance between toughness and skill, and Gillis has been trying to find the right balance. But thinking that if we just add a bunch of tough players, that we'll win is a ridiculous notion.

Edited by DeNiro, 19 February 2013 - 05:03 PM.

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#163 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:03 PM

Guess we'll have to see what MG does on April 3 (trade deadline) All we can do right now is just speculate. If our secondary line isn't producing when Booth returns I'd be inclined to somehow try and get Voracek from Philadelphia (and trade Booth). Then a legit heavyweight and a right handed depth defenseman as you've stated. No to Chipchura. Schroeder makes that line click of Raymond and Hansen. And Lappierre is set on the 4th line. If Schroeder does falter later in the season, then we go after a 3rd line centerman. I'm sure there are better options than Chipchura. Im no GM but that seems about right.


I'd love a good pass first winger like Voracek, Booth seems a bit redundant on that line. Especially if we're gunna play Kass. And I like Schroeder a lot to but you can't deny since Mannys been done we've been killed in the circle, and since we're supposed to be a puck possession team that just can't happen. I'd like to at least try a line of Raymond-Kesler-Schroeder which is why I believe we need a LH center to help Lappy when the draws on his off side. And have a 3rd line of Booth-Chipchura-Hansen or whatever LH center is available that can win draws and play a good 2 way game. I'm definitely very interest for the deadline. I don't mean to get ppl all uppity in these forums, but I am entitled to contribute to a discussion and I feel this has been a good one. I'm just not of the belief we need another fighter that's all.

Although I'd like it if this thread and "Get a real heavyweight" we're merged cause I've been posting in both and drinking all day and its getting a bit confusing :P
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#164 Vansicle

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:03 PM

Not sure if sarcastic....



Do you actually believe Burrows who's fought Scott Hannah, Jordan Tootoo, Dan Carcilo, Vincent Lecavalier, Brian Rolston, James Wiznouski (I'm aware that's not spelled right) would get his ass kicked by 5'8 180 pound (soaking wet) Patrick Kane??

Or that Kesler who's fought Iginla, Ryan Getzlaf, RJ Umberger and Andrew Ladd among others would "get his ass kicked" by Bolland...

I'd agree that no one I mentioned is a great fighter but compared to Bolland or Patrick Kane they're monsters in the fisticuffs department

Sarcastic.
But Burr is a ninny and can't fight. Yes, he has "fought" the guys you listed, but no-one is afraid of him. In fact, he often resorts to biting and hair pulling when things get chippy.
And yes, Kes has "fought" the guys you listed, but no one is afraid of him. Ladd handed Kes his ass. So did Getzlaf.

Don't get me wrong. Burr and Kes are good hockey players who do a lot to make this team better. But be realistic. They intimidate no-one, including Sharp and Bolland.
When this team recruits some genuine toughness (think Ott, not Scott), then I think they've got a real chance to take it all.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#165 Vansicle

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

Show me a team that wins because of toughness, and I'll show you one that doesn't win because of toughness.

Toughness helps, but you still need your skilled players, and goalies, to step up when it matters. We have yet to have our skilled players step up consistently in the playoffs, and that's why we haven't won it all yet.

It's a fine balance between toughness and skill, and Gillis has been trying to find the right balance. But thinking that if we just add a bunch of tough players, that we'll win is a ridiculous notion.

Toughness helps. Just like talent helps. If you have only one and not the other, you've only got half of the puzzle.
Our skilled players have been eaten alive by tougher opponents. If there were a couple of players to counter that, to give the skill guys some confidence, that would change. I promise.
No one is saying just getting a bunch of tough guys is, in and of itself, going to garner a bunch of wins. But getting a couple two or three sincerely tough individuals who can chip in the odd point, throw hits, punch it up a little is going to level the playing field enough to let our skill guys shine.
Don't believe it if you don't want. It's true. Sports are testosterone driven. You can't be entirely about skill. Sometimes you have to be about guts and brute force and rage and desire. All of those elements are what make champions, not any one single element.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#166 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:14 PM

Sarcastic.
But Burr is a ninny and can't fight. Yes, he has "fought" the guys you listed, but no-one is afraid of him. In fact, he often resorts to biting and hair pulling when things get chippy.
And yes, Kes has "fought" the guys you listed, but no one is afraid of him. Ladd handed Kes his ass. So did Getzlaf.

Don't get me wrong. Burr and Kes are good hockey players who do a lot to make this team better. But be realistic. They intimidate no-one, including Sharp and Bolland.
When this team recruits some genuine toughness (think Ott, not Scott), then I think they've got a real chance to take it all.


Alright at least my sarcasm meter still works lol :P

I wouldn't say Burr often resorts to those things, he resorts to diving and being dramatic more. He's pulled hair once for sure, maybe twice if my memories right (which it usually isn't lol) and he bit Bergeron because he literally stuck his finger inside his mouth. I woulda bit him to haha

I never claimed they won those fights, But either of them against the guys you mentioned I'd put my money on our guys.

I would have liked an Ott for Raymond trade last season which was rumored but never came to fruition. But that wouldn't satisfy half the ppl I've been discussing with who've been calling for someone 6'4+ , 240pnds

Ott can actually play the game on the 3rd line and be an effective player and a deterrent so I'd support bringing him on. I'm still against needing an Orr or Parros or someone like that to only play 5 minutes a game
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#167 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:19 PM

Show me a team that wins because of toughness, and I'll show you one that doesn't win because of toughness.

Toughness helps, but you still need your skilled players, and goalies, to step up when it matters. We have yet to have our skilled players step up consistently in the playoffs, and that's why we haven't won it all yet.

It's a fine balance between toughness and skill, and Gillis has been trying to find the right balance. But thinking that if we just add a bunch of tough players, that we'll win is a ridiculous notion.


"Show me a team that wins because of toughness, and I'll show you one that doesn't win because of toughness."
First point. Boston won because of their toughness, that opened up the ice for their skilled players. Canucks on the other hand didn't. Your observation is flawed.

"Toughness helps, but you still need your skilled players, and goalies, to step up when it matters. We have yet to have our skilled players step up consistently in the playoffs, and that's why we haven't won it all yet."
Second point. Toughness does indeed help. The reason why we couldn't score was due mostly in part of Thomas, but he had a good team in front of him. Chara, Lucic and Thornton just to name a few were intimidating enough for the Canucks. And adding players like Brad Marchand and Bergeron into mix didn't help either. They suffered no consequences because the Canucks had nobody to answer back. Who did we have? Bieksa? Rome? Burrows? Lappierre? Give your head a shake.

"But thinking that if we just add a bunch of tough players, that we'll win is a ridiculous notion."
Thirdly, you're putting words into my mouth. I never said to add a bunch of tough players. That's just plain stupid. We just need one legit heavyweight. That is all.

Edited by Brazen_Slugger, 19 February 2013 - 05:21 PM.

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#168 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

"Show me a team that wins because of toughness, and I'll show you one that doesn't win because of toughness."
First point. Boston won because of their toughness, that opened up the ice for their skilled players. Canucks on the other hand didn't. Your observation is flawed.

"Toughness helps, but you still need your skilled players, and goalies, to step up when it matters. We have yet to have our skilled players step up consistently in the playoffs, and that's why we haven't won it all yet."
Second point. Toughness does indeed help. The reason why we couldn't score was due mostly in part of Thomas, but he had a good team in front of him. Chara, Lucic and Thornton just to name a few were intimidating enough for the Canucks. And adding players like Brad Marchand and Bergeron into mix didn't help either. They suffered no consequences because the Canucks had nobody to answer back. Who did we have? Bieksa? Rome? Burrows? Lappierre? Give your head a shake.

"But thinking that if we just add a bunch of tough players, that we'll win is a ridiculous notion."
Thirdly, you're putting words into my mouth. I never said to add a bunch of tough players. That's just plain stupid. We just need one legit heavyweight. That is all.


Rome did try to awnser but got the book thrown at him, then picked back up and was beaten with it for a pretty questionable hit. (Penalty yes, suspension? certainly not in the regular season for a player with no prior history) Or do you disagree?

While I've never wanted to be one to just blame officials or the league watching everything from that whole series it's hard not to say they didn't affect the outcome at least.
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#169 DeNiro

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

"Show me a team that wins because of toughness, and I'll show you one that doesn't win because of toughness."
First point. Boston won because of their toughness, that opened up the ice for their skilled players. Canucks on the other hand didn't. Your observation is flawed.

"Toughness helps, but you still need your skilled players, and goalies, to step up when it matters. We have yet to have our skilled players step up consistently in the playoffs, and that's why we haven't won it all yet."
Second point. Toughness does indeed help. The reason why we couldn't score was due mostly in part of Thomas, but he had a good team in front of him. Chara, Lucic and Thornton just to name a few were intimidating enough for the Canucks. And adding players like Brad Marchand and Bergeron into mix didn't help either. They suffered no consequences because the Canucks had nobody to answer back. Who did we have? Bieksa? Rome? Burrows? Lappierre? Give your head a shake.

"But thinking that if we just add a bunch of tough players, that we'll win is a ridiculous notion."
Thirdly, you're putting words into my mouth. I never said to add a bunch of tough players. That's just plain stupid. We just need one legit heavyweight. That is all.


I'm putting words in your mouth? Didn't even know I was responding to you. But okay.

If you wanna use Boston as an example, then you have to realize that they had a ton of skill in their lineup too. And guys like Lucic, Chara, and Marchand are also their skilled players that played huge roles offensively in that series.

So thinking that it is as simple as adding tough guys to our bottom 6 in order to win is not the correct formula. You need toughness that can play, which Boston had, which La had, and which Chicago had.

And unless we're going to sell the farm to go out and get players like that, or trade away our core players, we're not just gonna reconstruct our team now.

This team is tough enough, it's just not as tough as Boston. Which as of now, no team in the league is. If we went up against Tampa Bay, or it happened to be a year later and it was New Jersey, toughness would not have been a problem at all.
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#170 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

Rome did try to awnser but got the book thrown at him, then picked back up and was beaten with it for a pretty questionable hit. (Penalty yes, suspension? certainly not in the regular season for a player with no prior history) Or do you disagree?

While I've never wanted to be one to just blame officials or the league watching everything from that whole series it's hard not to say they didn't affect the outcome at least.


Rome wasn't necessarily answering back for Boston's antics, he just saw Horton with his head down and did what any other defenseman would do, deliver a devastating hit. Keep your head up, this is a man's a game (as Raw Lewis would say)

For your viewing pleasure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-wumDYaGNA
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#171 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

I'm putting words in your mouth? Didn't even know I was responding to you. But okay.

If you wanna use Boston as an example, then you have to realize that they had a ton of skill in their lineup too. And guys like Lucic, Chara, and Marchand are also their skilled players that played huge roles offensively in that series.

So thinking that it is as simple as adding tough guys to our bottom 6 in order to win is not the correct formula. You need toughness that can play, which Boston had, which La had, and which Chicago had.

And unless we're going to sell the farm to go out and get players like that, or trade away our core players, we're not just gonna reconstruct our team now.

This team is tough enough, it's just not as tough as Boston. Which as of now, no team in the league is. If we went up against Tampa Bay, or it happened to be a year later and it was New Jersey, toughness would not have been a problem at all.


You were responding to my post, you just edited it out right now in your previous post. You just hate being pointed out and being told wrong. Good one.

It's this post

Show me a team that wins because of toughness, and I'll show you one that doesn't win because of toughness.

Toughness helps, but you still need your skilled players, and goalies, to step up when it matters. We have yet to have our skilled players step up consistently in the playoffs, and that's why we haven't won it all yet.

It's a fine balance between toughness and skill, and Gillis has been trying to find the right balance. But thinking that if we just add a bunch of tough players, that we'll win is a ridiculous notion.


Then it says it's been edited.

Edited by Brazen_Slugger, 19 February 2013 - 05:54 PM.

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#172 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:51 PM

Rome wasn't necessarily answering back for Boston's antics, he just saw Horton with his head down and did what any other defenseman would do, deliver a devastating hit. Keep your head up, this is a man's a game (as Raw Lewis would say)

For your viewing pleasure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-wumDYaGNA


So agree that a 4 game suspension for that hit was overkill then? Especially after already losing Hamhuis for the series, along with the excessive amount of injuries our team had at the time. While Boston was still relatively healthy
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#173 DeNiro

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

It seems like alot of people want to reconstruct this team in order to beat Boston. You realize the odds of us playing Boston again are very slim. Even if we make it to the finals, the odds of them making it again in the same year are very low.

You can't even worry about what team is coming out of the East, because it could be any team right now.

All they have to do is make sure they can match up to teams in the West. What team right now in the West is so tough that the Canucks can't handle? The Sharks or the Ducks are probably the toughest teams, but we've shown in the past that we can match up against them fine.

Right now, skill and high powered offense is what's winning in the West. And we're gonna need solid D and a ton of offense to match that, which we appear to have.
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#174 DeNiro

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:55 PM

You were responding to my post, you just edited it out right now in your previous post. You just hate being pointed out and told wrong. Good one.


:picard:

So anyone that posts in here is directly responding to you?

No I didn't edit out anything. I corrected a spelling mistake. ;)
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#175 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

So agree that a 4 game suspension for that hit was overkill then? Especially after already losing Hamhuis for the series, along with the excessive amount of injuries our team had at the time. While Boston was still relatively healthy


Yes. 1-2 games max. Shanahan is an idiot.
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#176 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

It seems like alot of people want to reconstruct this team in order to beat Boston. You realize the odds of us playing Boston again are very slim. Even if we make it to the finals, the odds of them making it again in the same year are very low.

You can't even worry about what team is coming out of the East, because it could be any team right now.

All they have to do is make sure they can match up to teams in the West. What team right now in the West is so tough that the Canucks can't handle? The Sharks or the Ducks are probably the toughest teams, but we've shown in the past that we can match up against them fine.

Right now, skill and high powered offense is what's winning in the West. And we're gonna need solid D and a ton of offense to match that, which we appear to have.


Pretty close to what I've been saying here all day, I'd be all for bringing in a 3rd line LH center with some grit and a RH Dman with some size other then that I believe this team is good to go
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#177 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:58 PM

:picard:

So anyone that posts in here is directly responding to you?

No I didn't edit out anything. I corrected a spelling mistake. ;)


:picard: Ok buddy whatever you say
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#178 DeNiro

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

It's this post



Then it says it's been edited.


Yes, because I edited a spelling mistake...

Why would i respond to one of your posts and then edit it out? What a dumb thing to accuse someone of.
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#179 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

It seems like alot of people want to reconstruct this team in order to beat Boston. You realize the odds of us playing Boston again are very slim. Even if we make it to the finals, the odds of them making it again in the same year are very low.

You can't even worry about what team is coming out of the East, because it could be any team right now.

All they have to do is make sure they can match up to teams in the West. What team right now in the West is so tough that the Canucks can't handle? The Sharks or the Ducks are probably the toughest teams, but we've shown in the past that we can match up against them fine.

Right now, skill and high powered offense is what's winning in the West. And we're gonna need solid D and a ton of offense to match that, which we appear to have.


You can quote me on it right now. SCF rematch Vancouver vs Boston. Boston is currently 9-2-2 and only 2 points behind the 1st place Pittsburgh Penguins. It's definitely a a bigger possibility than you make it to be.

Edited by Brazen_Slugger, 19 February 2013 - 06:07 PM.

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#180 Brazen_Slugger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

Yes, because I edited a spelling mistake...

Why would i respond to one of your posts and then edit it out? What a dumb thing to accuse someone of.


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