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Why We Should Keep Both Goalies


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#1 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:59 AM

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Right now, the Vancouver Canucks are 3rd best in team defence, at less than 2 goals against per game, and it's mostly thanks to great goaltending. We've never seen goalies play this well before, ignoring the first game of the season both goalies are well below 2 GAA. Schneider and Luongo are clearly playing their best hockey right now and it can mostly be attributed to having the other guy there as healthy competition. Take one away and the pressure builds on the other, as well as that competition, leading to much worse play in net.

But that's not all. In this shortened season, we've already seen injuries pile up. Players returning to an intense schedule have not been braced for the intensity of NHL games and couldn't prepare for it as well as they could have with a training camp. This is particularly hitting goalies the hardest, with way more goalie injuries than I've ever seen before. Here's some of the goalie injuries so far:

Kippersoff - knee injury, out another 2 weeks (about 3 all up)
Halak - groin injury, missed quite a few games and Elliot has been getting demolished by himself
Reimer - knee ligament injury, out a minimum of 1 week, could be as long as Kipper's
Mike Smith - lower body injury

You rarely see this many goalie injuries during a normal regular season, but without proper training camps and preparation, goalies are getting hit the hardest. They all seem to be from stretching too far or awkardly as well, not freak injuries.

What's worse is that both Luongo and Schneider have these sorts of injury histories. Luongo has had his groin injury flare up before, which kept him out for prolonged periods, and even Schneider aggravated his groin during the Chicago Game 6 a couple of playoffs ago because he was thrown into the net cold.

Moral of the story - don't trade either of our goalies right now. If ever there was a season to be cautious about goalie injuries it's this season, and right now we not only need both goalies for healthy competition but as a backup plan in case one goes down. This team is proving it doesn't need more depth at forward with the best 5-on-5 ratio GF/GA without 2 top-6 forwards as it is, there's no urgency to acquire more forwards at all. MG better cancel his trade talks for now and sit on any deal because if he moves a goalie it'll hurt this team in more ways than 1.
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#2 Noheart

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:24 AM

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BEASTLY!!!

#3 topbananas

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:23 AM

are you still allowed to start threads? wowzers
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stan smyl 2.0

Posted Yesterday, 09:07 AM

It's not 7.5 per year, Kesler's at 5 million and Malhotra's at 2.5 million

#4 Riviera82

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:48 AM

Shockingly, I think I might agree with him this time.
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#5 riffraff

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:54 AM

Psssssst. Don't trade Lu cos I heart him.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#6 cc_devil

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:58 AM

Two goalies eating up almost 10mil in cap space that's why.
It's preventing the team from that one extra power forward that could propel them to a cup. Wasting the Sedins while their in the prime when the team is missing that one other forward piece that will preform in the playoffs. A big hard hitting left winger that will pot in 15-20
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#7 Nino

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

Unless it helps us? I do agree that we are ok with the two goalies in the regular season but I want the returns of a Lou trade on the ice in the playoffs and I would like to see as much time as possible for the lines to gel. If our only goal is winning the PT agin then I agree that two top end goalies will help us but is that our only goal? It's time the club thought ahead and moved ahead.
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#8 TyrEnkidu

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:14 AM

Two goalies eating up almost 10mil in cap space that's why.
It's preventing the team from that one extra power forward that could propel them to a cup. Wasting the Sedins while their in the prime when the team is missing that one other forward piece that will preform in the playoffs. A big hard hitting left winger that will pot in 15-20


If it was hurting us , we wouldn't be in the top 5 teams.....yet there they sit ??

Edited by TyrEnkidu, 13 February 2013 - 08:15 AM.

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#9 forklift_ole

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:39 AM

The best reason to keep them both is that, in the offseason, some team that was one or two wins from making the playoffs is going to get desperate and pay a king's ransom for one of the Canucks' goaltenders. There just isn't enough being offered right now to justify trading one of the goaltenders that is making this team one of the hardest to score against in the league, and money won't be an issue until next season, so there's absolutely no harm in waiting.
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#10 CowtownCanuck

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

It's painful, but maybe we ditch Luongo in the offseason and suck it up.

It looks like that is the team's plan unless "mr. right" trade comes along.
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#11 kloubek

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:22 AM

I think both goalies feel pushed (in a good way) when they know there is another #1 waiting to play if they falter. I think that's why we're seeing great play out of both guys. But then, it's early in the season and I can't imagine a guy like Anderson is going to keep his stats so high as the season wears on either.

It is also nice to know that if one gets injured, we have a #1 waiting.

But make no mistake about it... if Gillis gets a deal that makes sense, he'll pull the trigger. Luongo has proven to be more difficult to move than expected and if we wait until the offseason while it might provide more opportunities for a trade, it will also force Gillis to trade Luongo regardless of the return.... he loses what little bargaining power he has available at this point in the season.

Additionally, having half the goaltending salary sitting on the bench every night means there is 4-5 million we COULD have playing on the ice instead. To me, our current scenario doesn't make a ton of sense.
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Biggest Canucks Fan this Side of the Rockies.

#12 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

Really at this point there is no reason to trade either... Unless a good deal becomes available. Hmm, what do you know? MG had it right in the first place. :rolleyes:

In all seriousness though, in the end I don't think it's fair to either goaltender to try and keep both for selfish reasons. (Like we're winning) They are both starters and deserve to be, not 50-50 on a good team. If we keep both until the end of the season my money is on Lu staying over Schneids, he certianly is making a good case for why he's a great catch for any team. My guess is the trade offers pick up in the next two weeks. ;)

Edited by Kesler's Nose, 13 February 2013 - 10:01 AM.

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"It's an opportunity, we don't look at it as a last chance... We look at it as an opportunity to do something great. We are going to take it period by period, shift by shift. You just have to be better than the guy across from you... Every guy in this locker room I can say believes we can do this." - Ryan Kesler

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#13 NuxFan09

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:10 AM

What about the goalies themselves? I know all you people would love to keep both in your fairy tale world, but the reality is it's not your career. Both these guys deserve to be starters and are just being patient and professional for now. They're not going to spend the rest of their careers sharing one net. It's not remotely fair to either one of them.

Keep them both for this season? Sure, but I'm willing to bet that won't happen without putting some kind of a strain on either goalie's patience. If Gillis drags this out past next offseason, one of them for sure is going to request to be moved immediately. There's only so long both of them are going to be willing to work part time.
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#14 NuxFan09

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:22 AM

The Capitals have got to be at least considering goalie options right now. They won 6-5 in OT last night in a bit of a back and forth affair, but at the end of the day Holtby still allowed 5 goals on 32 shots. He currently has a 3-4-0 record on the season and a 4.03 GAA and .874 Save%. Terrible. Neuvirth currently sports a 1-4-1 record, a 3.05 GAA and a .889 Save%. Not much better.

The Panthers also aren't getting great performances from either of their goaltenders, but at least they can afford to ride it out because they have a young stud in Markstrom waiting in the system.

With the Maple Leafs doing pretty well and Reimer having a great season, I don't think they're eager to do a goalie deal with the Canucks. Reimer is injured right now, but apparently it's only a minor issue and he could be back as soon as next week.

The Flyers? Paul Holmgren was quoted as saying Ilya Bryzgalov has been their best player so far this season. No contest. I didn't think they were in the market for one of our goalies to begin with, what with having just signed Bryz to a monster contract and all, but now I know they definitely aren't interested.

The Washington Capitals are the front runners right now. Easily. They're getting bad goaltending from both their goalies and they don't have the luxury of waiting for a goalie of the future because Holtby IS their goalie of the future. If both he and Neuvirth look like they're not going to cut it, they'd be wise to look at their options outside of the organization.
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#15 #17forlife

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

"Schneider and Luongo are clearly playing their best hockey right now and it can mostly be attributed to having the other guy there as healthy competition. Take one away and the pressure builds on the other, as well as that competition, leading to much worse play in net."

A very excellent point you make. It is good for those guys to be there, supporting each other as well as driving the other to do better and proving that they each deserve to start.

If we do end up keeping both for them for this season, one of them will most likely be traded during the offseason. Like many people have already said, it isn't fair for both of these very talented goalies to have to share the net. Also they do eat up quite a bit of cap space. I think we should enjoy this awesome tandem while we can folks! :)
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#16 frazzY

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:26 AM

The Capitals have got to be at least considering goalie options right now. They won 6-5 in OT last night in a bit of a back and forth affair, but at the end of the day Holtby still allowed 5 goals on 32 shots. He currently has a 3-4-0 record on the season and a 4.03 GAA and .874 Save%. Terrible. Neuvirth currently sports a 1-4-1 record, a 3.05 GAA and a .889 Save%. Not much better.

The Panthers also aren't getting great performances from either of their goaltenders, but at least they can afford to ride it out because they have a young stud in Markstrom waiting in the system.

With the Maple Leafs doing pretty well and Reimer having a great season, I don't think they're eager to do a goalie deal with the Canucks. Reimer is injured right now, but apparently it's only a minor issue and he could be back as soon as next week.

The Flyers? Paul Holmgren was quoted as saying Ilya Bryzgalov has been their best player so far this season. No contest. I didn't think they were in the market for one of our goalies to begin with, what with having just signed Bryz to a monster contract and all, but now I know they definitely aren't interested.

The Washington Capitals are the front runners right now. Easily. They're getting bad goaltending from both their goalies and they don't have the luxury of waiting for a goalie of the future because Holtby IS their goalie of the future. If both he and Neuvirth look like they're not going to cut it, they'd be wise to look at their options outside of the organization.


Schneider or Luongo for Ovie! Lol
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#17 mazdaspeed3

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:13 AM

What about the goalies themselves? I know all you people would love to keep both in your fairy tale world, but the reality is it's not your career. Both these guys deserve to be starters and are just being patient and professional for now. They're not going to spend the rest of their careers sharing one net. It's not remotely fair to either one of them.

Keep them both for this season? Sure, but I'm willing to bet that won't happen without putting some kind of a strain on either goalie's patience. If Gillis drags this out past next offseason, one of them for sure is going to request to be moved immediately. There's only so long both of them are going to be willing to work part time.


A Stanley Cup would be reason enough to be patient. They will be fine for the season and Gillis has already stated that this situation can not go on long term... ie past this season.
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#18 chrisbanks

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:20 AM

there is really no market for the either goalie right now especially for what gillis wants... no gm in their right mind is going to plug a hole a create such big new one and thats what gillis is requesting ... gillis under vauled players that were offered in the off season and those trades are now gone and never comming back.... ( kadri ,bozak,3rd round pick) and (bozak, frattin ,2nd round pic) both ttrade offers had been confirmed by SN HC, either trade looks like it couldve put us over the hump to win the cup this year. another thing is how blind are most of these fans? wild went almost 10 minutes in the second period without a shot canucks have had 1 game out of the last 5 where they have had any real steady offensive pressure against them and that was vs the oilers and that has to do with the team infront of the goalies not the goalies how do u think cory and luongo would look in edomonton right now? about as good as as doobie.
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#19 ChirplikeLappy

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:22 AM

it cant go past this season because as soon as its the start of the offseason, and the buyout period starts, Teams know that we cant afford to keep both with a 64 million cap. Therefore either their offers will drop or be much weaker, knowing they could pick one of them (Most likely Lu) after a buyout
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#20 elvis15

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

I'm not going to read all that, but if a deal comes along like Gillis has been waiting for, he'll trade Luongo (or Schneider if someone comes back with an amazing offer for him). Otherwise, he's said he'll look at keeping both for this season and try to move one in the offseason. It's not rocket science, and Gillis isn't going to dump one of our goalies in a panic to worry about next year's cap when this year still isn't over.

And I know I saw this a lot, but there are so many Luongo threads around: could this idea not have just gone along with the "Is Roberto Luongo In His Prime Now?" thread the OP had already started? We don't really need a new thread for each thought everyone has about our goalies when we already have lots of discussion in other threads.
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#21 falcon45ca

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:14 PM

even Schneider aggravated his groin during the Chicago Game 6 a couple of playoffs ago because he was thrown into the net cold.

Schneider didn't start cold, he was in the whole game. That's as cold a start as every goalie gets. Plus, Schneider didn't injure his groin, he has stated in interviews that he has hydration/electrolyte issues that he has to continually monitor and work on, and that was what caused him to be pulled in that game.

Though I don't disagree with the overall point: keep both goalies! IMHO we should dump Ballard's salary, I'm more concerned about that waste of money than Lou & Schneids.
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#22 forklift_ole

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

it cant go past this season because as soon as its the start of the offseason, and the buyout period starts, Teams know that we cant afford to keep both with a 64 million cap. Therefore either their offers will drop or be much weaker, knowing they could pick one of them (Most likely Lu) after a buyout


It's not as simple as that. On the open market Luongo would probably get $6-7mil a year, and without the ability to give him a front-weighted contract, what he's paid is what counts against the cap. This means that teams who would want to sign him (Toronto, Washington, Philadelphia) would have to dump a lot of salary for no return just to get him in under their cap, and in the end they'd be paying him up to $2mil more than he earns now. Further, teams like Florida really don't want him to get into the market because they can't afford to pay him such a large salary, so if they really want Luongo they'll have to come up with a trade. In addition, as I understand the rules, the deadline for buyouts is the first game of the season, so the Canucks can sit on Luongo all the way until the season starts leaving any team that was hoping to sign him after a buyout in a terrible position.

In the end, a trade is the best outcome for all teams involved, and keeping Luongo and Schneider until the offseason is the best choice for the Canucks.
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#23 canidiot

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

there is no "I" in team. that goes for goalies too. lou and cory's team play is great to watch.
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#24 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

One has to be traded by the start of next season.

I agree that having both of them around this season provides a lot of value. If we traded one, and the other gets injured, we'd be screwed, obviously.

However, if either Henrik or Kesler gets injured for the playoff run, then we'd also be screwed. Trading Luongo for a top-6 forward, particularly one who can play centre, makes sense.

Trading Luongo for futures assets, even if it is a highly valuable package, doesn't make sense until the off-season.
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#25 Vansicle

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:15 PM

Goalies. Lou. Schneider. Trade. Keep. Unproven. Meltdowns. Return. Toronto. Kadri. Florida. Salary. Lou. Cory.
Jesus Christ. Can we please just have some more goalie threads?
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#26 Nino

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:15 PM

Goalies. Lou. Schneider. Trade. Keep. Unproven. Meltdowns. Return. Toronto. Kadri. Florida. Salary. Lou. Cory.
Jesus Christ. Can we please just have some more goalie threads?


Start one?
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#27 MikeyBoy44

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:56 PM

To be honest I don't need another thread telling me why we need to keep both. I watch the games. Something original next time please.
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#28 NuxFan09

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

Goalies. Lou. Schneider. Trade. Keep. Unproven. Meltdowns. Return. Toronto. Kadri. Florida. Salary. Lou. Cory.
Jesus Christ. Can we please just have some more goalie threads?


For anyone to cuss like that about a thread on the internet, that person must be pretty freaking angry. Care to lighten your tone a bit, especially for things that really shouldn't matter to you in the grand scheme of things?

Everything will be alright Vansicle. Your mom still loves you.

Edited by NuxFan09, 13 February 2013 - 05:03 PM.

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#29 Pistachios

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:03 PM

Works for reg season but once playoffs start I think you've gotta go with one guy.
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#30 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

Firstly this isn't "just another goalie trade thread", it's about NOT trading them.

The way I see it, if we trade a goalie for an elite top-6 forward then sure, our offence will improve and we'll have more depth. Right now, with Kesler and Booth healthy, here's our forward group:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Burrows - Kesler - Booth
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Higgins - Malhotra - Lapierre

That's a 25-goal-pace scorer in Raymond on our 3rd line., a 20-goal-pace scorer in Hansen on our 3rd line and a 20-goal-pace scorer in Higgins on our 4th line. I fear that if we bring in a star forward into the lineup to either play on the Sedins line or with Kesler, we'll be bumping someone out of the lineup and lose efficiency. If Hansen and Higgins are on our 4th line we're wasting their scoring ability. It's very similar to having 2 great goalies - they can't both play every minute of every game.

I'd much rather have consistent, solid goaltending than an extra forward who plays just 20 minutes a game, maybe increases our offence marginally but leaves us very vulnerable in net to a goalie injury or fatigue.

I know people say you can't win Cups in the playoffs with a goalie tandem, and that we should trade one of our goalies by the deadline at least to bolster our offence for the playoffs, but why not try? AV is mastering his goalie minutes right now to get the best result out of both guys, why not continue this into the playoffs? Detroit did it with Hasek and Osgood a while back so it's definately possible, and in a shortened season history goes out the window.
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