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#1 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

Higgins, Hansen, Connauton for O'Reilly

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth O'Reilly Kesler
Raymond Schroeder Kassian
Volpatti Lapierre Weise

Yes, this is an overpayment. But I don't see the Avs trading O'Reilly to a divisional rival unless the offer is clearly better than all others. In fact, a better prospect than Connauton may have to be included, and I would do that.

O'Reilly gives the Canucks stability going forward. He is a player that extends our window of opportunity. He also fits our needs perfectly. Given Malhotra's drop in play and mysterious status, the Canucks need another left-handed centre to take defensive zone draws. He also fills the playmaking void on the second line, and frees up Kesler to play like the lone wolf he is.

Losing Hansen hurts, but O'Reilly will not be acquired for superfluous assets. They will be looking for multiple, quality assets in return. Young, emerging stars such as O'Reilly are the League's most precious assets.
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#2 Aladeen

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:45 PM

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This is my general response for all O'Reilly trade threads... but seriously man he is not ever going to be a Canuck and why would we give up two wingers and dman prospect for a Center where we have an abundance of talent? Is he great? no doubt... will this trade improve the Canucks? no. Will this trade happen in a bazillion years? no.
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#3 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

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This is my general response for all O'Reilly trade threads... but seriously man he is not ever going to be a Canuck and why would we give up two wingers and dman prospect for a Center where we have an abundance of talent? Is he great? no doubt... will this trade improve the Canucks? no. Will this trade happen in a bazillion years? no.


We would give up two wingers for a centre for a few reasons:

1) Centre is a more important position than wing: Championship teams generally have more than 4 centres in their lineup
2) This allows Kesler to move to wing, and provides lineup versatility and insurance in case of injury
3) We'll have a superfluous top-9 forward when Kesler and Booth return
4) It makes our team better: we have the depth to sustain a net loss of one forward, and O'Reilly is a much better player than either Higgins or Hansen
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#4 Provost

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:06 PM

The only way we get O'Reilly is if MG figured that Kesler was never going to get back into form and traded him out and replace him with O'Reilly.
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#5 Aladeen

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:07 PM

We would give up two wingers for a centre for a few reasons:

1) Centre is a more important position than wing: Championship teams generally have more than 4 centres in their lineup
2) This allows Kesler to move to wing, and provides lineup versatility and insurance in case of injury
3) We'll have a superfluous top-9 forward when Kesler and Booth return
4) It makes our team better: we have the depth to sustain a net loss of one forward, and O'Reilly is a much better player than either Higgins or Hansen

Giving up Hansen and Higgins brings the Canucks closer to the cup this year... How exactly? You win Championships with Character guys like Hansen and Like Higgins, guys who bring more to the table than their Cap hit says they should.

Like you said O'Reilly is a young and emerging star and while he would be an awesome luxury to have your proposal sets us back from winning championships in the near future. Added to the fact that your propsal wouldn't be enough to get it done but a high pick would also I am sure be required at the least.

So MG wouldn't do this, he would be an idiot to do this, I am glad you are not MG.

If they would go for something like Schroeder and first... that may be much more reasonable... but again like you say it would take overpayment to get him and even the overpayment in your propsal probably isn't enough and Schroeder and first is not even on the same planet as what they would want in return.
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#6 elvis15

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

If the Avs can't get him to sign a reasonable deal, what makes you think we can fit him under our cap this year by trading away only $3.25M and have only $840K in cap space. Then what about next year? How do we fit him in then since he's already turned down deals around $3.4/3.5M with varying term from the Avs? We aren't going to be able to fit in another forward making $4-5M when we already likely have to move Ballard (or similar salary) even after a Luongo deal this summer. Is he even worth what he's asking at this point?

Edited by elvis15, 13 February 2013 - 02:17 PM.

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#7 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

Giving up Hansen and Higgins brings the Canucks closer to the cup this year... How exactly? You win Championships with Character guys like Hansen and Like Higgins, guys who bring more to the table than their Cap hit says they should.

Like you said O'Reilly is a young and emerging star and while he would be an awesome luxury to have your proposal sets us back from winning championships in the near future. Added to the fact that your propsal wouldn't be enough to get it done but a high pick would also I am sure be required at the least.

So MG wouldn't do this, he would be an idiot to do this, I am glad you are not MG.

If they would go for something like Schroeder and first... that may be much more reasonable... but again like you say it would take overpayment to get him and even the overpayment in your propsal probably isn't enough and Schroeder and first is not even on the same planet as what they would want in return.


In recent years, secondary scoring has been the Canucks' achilles heal. The Sedins have been shut down, and Kesler has been unable to produce on his own. Having O'Reilly centre Kesler and Booth makes our top-6 far more dangerous.

Higgins and Hansen combined for 18 points in 60 games in the last two playoffs.

Ps - I am also glad that I am not MG. It's nice we share that sentiment in common.

EDIT: sorry, 30 games total for the last two playoff runs.

Edited by Mookie Wilson, 13 February 2013 - 02:27 PM.

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#8 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

If the Avs can't get him to sign a reasonable deal, what makes you think we can fit him under our cap this year by trading away only $3.25M and have only $840K in cap space. Then what about next year? How do we fit him in then since he's already turned down deals around $3.4/3.5M with varying term from the Avs? We aren't going to be able to fit in another forward making $4-5M when we already likely have to move Ballard (or similar salary) even after a Luongo deal this summer. Is he even worth what he's asking at this point?


Higgins (1.9) + Hansen (1.35) + Ebbet (.6) + available cap space (.84) = 4.69M. That would be enough to sign O'Reilly. Even if he is signed for more than 4.69M, his cap hit for this year would be pro-rated.

Ebbett will be waived/demoted to make room upon Kesler and Booth's return.
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#9 elvis15

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

Higgins (1.9) + Hansen (1.35) + Ebbet (.6) + available cap space (.84) = 4.69M. That would be enough to sign O'Reilly. Even if he is signed for more than 4.69M, his cap hit for this year would be pro-rated.

Ebbett will be waived/demoted to make room upon Kesler and Booth's return.

You conveniently left out how we'd make it fit next year, even if you did manage to make it fit (almost to the dollar!) in with the cap exception limit this year.
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#10 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

You conveniently left out how we'd make it fit next year, even if you did manage to make it fit (almost to the dollar!) in with the cap exception limit this year.


For some reason I can't figure out cap geek anymore. But there are lots of options for trimming pay roll. O'Reilly at 4.5 is better value than Booth at 4.25. Get rid of Booth. Get rid of Ballard. Luongo and Malhotra likely will not be back.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Raymond O'Reilly Kesler
Jensen Schroeder Kassian
Volpatti Lapierre Weise
Extra: Pinizzotto, Sweatt or a free agent signing

Hamhuis Edler
Garrison Bieksa
Alberts/Connauton Taneve
FA signing

Schneider
Lack/FA signing

That line-up is likely cap compliant. Also remember that Gillis can target cost-effective players in a Luongo trade.

EDIT:

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($4.500m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)
Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.300m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.750m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.300m) / Dale Weise ($0.750m)
Bill Sweatt ($0.900m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) / Chris Tanev ($0.851m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.300m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,739,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,560,333

There is the framework for a roster. There is 2.56M in cap space. Take off about .700k for the 23rd man. Then there is room to take back salary in a Luongo trade.

Edited by Mookie Wilson, 13 February 2013 - 03:06 PM.

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#11 Rey

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

It's still kind of mind blogging to think that the Avs will trade O'Reilly to Vancouver. Plus, they can find a better package than that. Hansen is the only player out of the three to have any value. With the way prospects are being thrown around, KCon probably is worth a 5th or a 7th, and Higgins is a free agent at the end of the year. Better off getting a package from say..Washington, Toronto, Buffalo, etc. Who doesn't like a young kid that does everything.

Kids overrated, don't think he's better than Kesler at his best. I guess the question is if Kesler will ever return to form. We all know what happened with Mike Richards... Don't think Canucks need 2 of these type of guys around. Too much money thrown around. He's more Mike Fisher tier for me, at the moment.

Edited by Rey, 13 February 2013 - 03:04 PM.

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#12 Aladeen

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

In recent years, secondary scoring has been the Canucks' achilles heal. The Sedins have been shut down, and Kesler has been unable to produce on his own. Having O'Reilly centre Kesler and Booth makes our top-6 far more dangerous.

Higgins and Hansen combined for 18 points in 60 games in the last two playoffs.

Ps - I am also glad that I am not MG. It's nice we share that sentiment in common.

EDIT: sorry, 30 games total for the last two playoff runs.

I'm sorry winning is about more than just scoring points, you only need 1 if you can stop the other teams from scoring. Hansen is an absolute beast on the PK and we would be very hard pressed to replace what he brings to the PK and his ridonkulous tenacious forecheck, which if he had better hands would be crazy on the scoreboard.

Hansen in particular is a refined player, in the sense that he knows his role and does it better than almost anyone else in the league with the same role. I really dislike Hansen in trade propsals since I often do not see the value coming back. He is often a throw in or and extra piece to sweeten the pot. However I feel he is a superstar at what he does. Putting up points is great and I am all for more secondary scoring, so long as it doesn't take away from what helps us to win currently.

We need to add to the winning formula that the Canucks currently have not rewrite it, otherwise it is actually a rebuild and there is no point to winning regular season games.
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#13 billabong

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

Oreilly to vancouver makes no sense on any level so u can stop dreaming....he is going to the east
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#14 Super_Canuck

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:11 PM

Schroeder, K. Connauton and 3rd pick?
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#15 brewdog

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

This kid has scored 39 career goals and he's holding out because he wants to be paid $5M (according Denver Post). At a similar point in his career, Kesler signed for $1.75M.

Sounds like dressing room cancer to me.
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#16 Provost

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

This kid has scored 39 career goals and he's holding out because he wants to be paid $5M (according Denver Post). At a similar point in his career, Kesler signed for $1.75M.

Sounds like dressing room cancer to me.


Ferraro says he is a great kid... maybe it is an issue of not wanting to be stuck in a crappy franchise for the next few years and wants to move on.
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#17 brewdog

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

Ferraro says he is a great kid... maybe it is an issue of not wanting to be stuck in a crappy franchise for the next few years and wants to move on.


Fair point. I suppose he could be demanding far above his market value to force the team to trade him elsewhere. Still makes me nervous, though.
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#18 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

This kid has scored 39 career goals and he's holding out because he wants to be paid $5M (according Denver Post). At a similar point in his career, Kesler signed for $1.75M.

Sounds like dressing room cancer to me.


At that point, Kesler had a career high of 23 points, and was coming off a major injury. O'Reilly had 55 points last year, and of course like Kesler is considered a very good two-way centre.
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#19 elvis15

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:32 PM

For some reason I can't figure out cap geek anymore. But there are lots of options for trimming pay roll. O'Reilly at 4.5 is better value than Booth at 4.25. Get rid of Booth. Get rid of Ballard. Luongo and Malhotra likely will not be back.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Raymond O'Reilly Kesler
Jensen Schroeder Kassian
Volpatti Lapierre Weise
Extra: Pinizzotto, Sweatt or a free agent signing

Hamhuis Edler
Garrison Bieksa
Alberts/Connauton Taneve
FA signing

Schneider
Lack/FA signing

That line-up is likely cap compliant. Also remember that Gillis can target cost-effective players in a Luongo trade.

EDIT:

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($4.500m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)
Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.300m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.750m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.300m) / Dale Weise ($0.750m)
Bill Sweatt ($0.900m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) / Chris Tanev ($0.851m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.300m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,739,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,560,333

There is the framework for a roster. There is 2.56M in cap space. Take off about .700k for the 23rd man. Then there is room to take back salary in a Luongo trade.

So we just buyout Booth and Ballard or trade them for picks. Then we trade Luongo but get nothing for our roster in return. Then there's the fact we've traded two very affordable but also very effective players in Higgins and Hansen to get him. Then we hope Connauton (who we also traded to get him), Alberts, Sweatt and whoever else cut it as our depth players and hope we never have injuries.

That is even before the fact that the Avs would be unlikely to trade such a big piece to a team that plays in their division without making us overpay so they don't get burned every time we play them in O'Reilly's long career.

It's not going to happen, at least not with us.
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#20 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

So we just buyout Booth and Ballard or trade them for picks. Then we trade Luongo but get nothing for our roster in return. Then there's the fact we've traded two very affordable but also very effective players in Higgins and Hansen to get him. Then we hope Connauton (who we also traded to get him), Alberts, Sweatt and whoever else cut it as our depth players and hope we never have injuries.

That is even before the fact that the Avs would be unlikely to trade such a big piece to a team that plays in their division without making us overpay so they don't get burned every time we play them in O'Reilly's long career.

It's not going to happen, at least not with us.


As I mentioned, that was just a framework for a 2013-14 roster. There is cap space remaining for some upgrades, such as to take back salary in a Luongo trade.

My proposal basically substituted O'Reilly for Booth, which I believe is a big upgrade. The other changes are a result of the cap decreasing. In addition to losing Luongo, Ballard and at least one of Raymond or Higgins will not likely be retained.

Edited by Mookie Wilson, 13 February 2013 - 06:52 PM.

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#21 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:12 PM

This doesn't work for a number of reasons.
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#22 Spoosh

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:36 AM

I'd take him if he was available, even overpay a bit. But there is just about no chance of hi even moving to a western conference team. They will look to trade him east...
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#23 ice orca

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

In recent years, secondary scoring has been the Canucks' achilles heal. The Sedins have been shut down, and Kesler has been unable to produce on his own. Having O'Reilly centre Kesler and Booth makes our top-6 far more dangerous.

Higgins and Hansen combined for 18 points in 60 games in the last two playoffs.

Ps - I am also glad that I am not MG. It's nice we share that sentiment in common.

EDIT: sorry, 30 games total for the last two playoff runs.

Why would you move Kesler to wing for a holdout from another team? O'Reilly might be good but do you think for 1 minute Vignault is going to put him at center over Kesler, we just went though that senario with a player who didn't want to earn his dinner.
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#24 rb4u

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:40 AM

Even if he is signed for more than 4.69M, his cap hit for this year would be pro-rated.


Do you even know what the heck your talking about when it comes to the cap and how pro-rating works?

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#25 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:51 AM

Do you even know what the heck your talking about when it comes to the cap and how pro-rating works?


OMG, maybe I don't.
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#26 Ourgodluongo

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:24 PM

Why is everyone putting kesler on the wing? He won the selke. Bad trade we have 4 good centers.
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#27 bossram

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:24 PM

Not worth it for Colorado.
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