Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
- - - - -

[Injury] Karlsson achilles cut 70% in battle with Cooke, out 3-4 mo after surgery


  • Please log in to reply
265 replies to this topic

#241 Salmonberries

Salmonberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,375 posts
  • Joined: 22-November 11

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

Nice try, trying to say all the hockey experts are saying Hansen meant to injure Hossa. I've heard Eddie Olcyzk say he would be surprised if Hansen wasn't suspended, but then Kerry Fraser said he would be surprised if he was suspended. I don't see even a reasonable portion of hockey experts saying Hansen meant to injure him.

If you have anything based on facts you'd like to present, feel free to share it, otherwise you can stop with the sensationalism and exaggeration to make it sound like you have some sort of case and our hockey experts mean nothing.

You've presented nothing in the way of compelling evidence yourself, only shrill opinion and an intolerance of dissenting viewpoints. Why don't you goose step off someplace else eh.

Here's another dissenting opinion for you to bunch your panties over elvis.

http://www.thesports...d-from-the-nhl/

Edited by Keke Mortson's helmet, 20 February 2013 - 10:34 PM.

  • 1

#242 Justin6Schultz

Justin6Schultz

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 218 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:48 PM

Time to put up the poll
  • 0

#243 elvis15

elvis15

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,838 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 07

Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

You've presented nothing in the way of compelling evidence yourself, only shrill opinion and an intolerance of dissenting viewpoints. Why don't you goose step off someplace else eh.

Here's another dissenting opinion for you to bunch your panties over elvis.

http://www.thesports...d-from-the-nhl/

Ok everybody, just to let you know Keke has proved all opinion other than the one that Cooke intentionally stomped on Karlsson's leg invalid by posting the blog from Dillon Friday at The Sportsfan Journal. We can all go back to our lives knowing this irrefutable evidence far outweighs that of any hockey expert anywhere, and clearly puts all us hockey fans in our place.

/thread

/sarcasm

Really? That's your dissenting opinion? The blog you posted even links to the TSN panel we've been talking about as a part of the hockey experts, and they're supporting our argument how it wasn't intentional. But Dillon Friday is your proof that those hockey experts know nothing. Keep trying though.

Like I said before, if you want to come up with an actual argument supported by anyone of actual note, or you have evidence that proves the hockey experts we've listed are wrong, feel free to share it. Until then it's merely your opinion and you won't convince anyone who doesn't agree with you.
  • 0

c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#244 Salmonberries

Salmonberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,375 posts
  • Joined: 22-November 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:19 AM

Ok everybody, just to let you know Keke has proved all opinion other than the one that Cooke intentionally stomped on Karlsson's leg invalid by posting the blog from Dillon Friday at The Sportsfan Journal. We can all go back to our lives knowing this irrefutable evidence far outweighs that of any hockey expert anywhere, and clearly puts all us hockey fans in our place.

/thread

/sarcasm

Really? That's your dissenting opinion? The blog you posted even links to the TSN panel we've been talking about as a part of the hockey experts, and they're supporting our argument how it wasn't intentional. But Dillon Friday is your proof that those hockey experts know nothing. Keep trying though.

Like I said before, if you want to come up with an actual argument supported by anyone of actual note, or you have evidence that proves the hockey experts we've listed are wrong, feel free to share it. Until then it's merely your opinion and you won't convince anyone who doesn't agree with you.

That's just it elvis, it's all opinion. The evidence is the video and that is subject to interpretation. All we can do is try to guess at his intent. And it's my opinion that Cooke was playing angry as a result of his losing it on the bench earlier in the game after being hit in the neck by a Sergei Gonchar slapshot and he carried his nasty-reckless-evil-intent mindset with him when he went into the play with Erik Karlsson.

But it's just an opinion, and a minority opinion not shared by the hockey establishment at that. But as I have pointed out, it could be that the hockey establishment's instinct is to close ranks and support Cooke as away of controlling the potential damage to the image of the game that could come with another violent incident that was deemed to be deliberate. It's not as if the opinion that this was a deliberate act doesn't exist outside of the usual official hockey channels.
  • 0

#245 Salmonberries

Salmonberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,375 posts
  • Joined: 22-November 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:29 AM

And I happen to think that most good people sincerely believe that this incident was an accident because the alternative is too unpalatable for them to accept. But given Cooke's apparently complete absence of remorse throughout his serial career of violent incidents I have little doubt that he is up to the mark in this regard.His public statement that his determination to change his ways was in order that "his kids shouldn't be embarrassed", nothing about maiming Marc Savard and ruining his life, for instance, is telling.
  • 0

#246 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,914 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:43 AM

That's just it elvis, it's all opinion. The evidence is the video and that is subject to interpretation. All we can do is try to guess at his intent.

Yes. An opinion from a blogger from Philadelphia. We all know how unbiased they are in Philly when it comes to players on the Penguins. :rolleyes:

As far as the video being subject to interpretation, one needs actual insight into the game to interpret it properly. Those of us who have it don't have to "guess" at the intent.
  • 0
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#247 Salmonberries

Salmonberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,375 posts
  • Joined: 22-November 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:57 AM

Yes. An opinion from a blogger from Philadelphia. We all know how unbiased they are in Philly when it comes to players on the Penguins. :rolleyes:

As far as the video being subject to interpretation, one needs actual insight into the game to interpret it properly. Those of us who have it don't have to "guess" at the intent.

Stomping down on the calf of a player is commonplace in the game? What is the possible rationale for that forward arcing stomping motion. And please desist from addressing me as if I'm someone with no practical experience. Cut that bull will you. It doesn't wash.
  • 0

#248 Justin6Schultz

Justin6Schultz

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 218 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:14 AM

.

Edited by Justin6Schultz, 26 February 2013 - 06:19 PM.

  • 0

#249 Salmonberries

Salmonberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,375 posts
  • Joined: 22-November 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:28 AM

Yes. An opinion from a blogger from Philadelphia. We all know how unbiased they are in Philly when it comes to players on the Penguins. :rolleyes:

As far as the video being subject to interpretation, one needs actual insight into the game to interpret it properly. Those of us who have it don't have to "guess" at the intent.

Forgetting for a moment that I indeed did play minor hockey as a boy, why don't you invoke your keen hockey insight and explain why it is impossible that Cooke did intentionally stomp on Karlsson's leg on the play RUPERT. Not why he probably didn't; but why, as you assert, it is impossible for this act to have been intentional.
  • 0

#250 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,914 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:18 AM

Stomping down on the calf of a player is commonplace in the game? What is the possible rationale for that forward arcing stomping motion. And please desist from addressing me as if I'm someone with no practical experience. Cut that bull will you. It doesn't wash.

As I've said in this thread before, there was no"stomp". Cooke's foot came off the ice as a result of a partial loss of balance. (Something that happens all the time, as pointed out by the Aaron Ward explanation) Gravity dictates that what goes up eventually comes down. Unfortunately, Cooke and Karlsson were in close proximity and the skate caught the back of Karlsson's leg as it descended.

Forgetting for a moment that I indeed did play minor hockey as a boy, why don't you invoke your keen hockey insight and explain why it is impossible that Cooke did intentionally stomp on Karlsson's leg on the play RUPERT. Not why he probably didn't; but why, as you assert, it is impossible for this act to have been intentional.

I've never said that it was "impossible". What I've always maintained is that stomping on someone is something that would never occur to a hockey player. It seems plausible to the uninitiated, but for those who have the length and breadth of experience in the game, it's a ridiculous assumption.
  • 0
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#251 debluvscanucks

debluvscanucks

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Super Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,384 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 08

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:28 AM

Riddle me this Rupertkb, this photograph shows Matt Cooke in fact cutting karlsons leg, correct?
Does it show Erik Karlson screaming in pain ?
Would you say Matt Cooke is within earshot of Erik Karlson ?
Why does Matt Cooke simply skate away after disengaging from a screaming and fully within earshot, Erik Karlson and not even look back?
Would you say Matt Cooke either didn't care for what transpired or didn't hear what transpired?
One might say that Matt Cooke cut karlsons leg, disengaged from the puck battle that obviously cut erik karlson and then skated away in a manner that showed little sympathy for what had just transpired.

Would Rupertkb, offer a "look back " after disengaging from a common "puck battle" if there was someone that was screaming, or an obvious injury during a "common puck battle". i say obvious because matt Cooke was within earshot of Karlson, who was obviously screaming! feel free to draw on your "over 2000 competitive" hockey games, including your "short stint in junior" ? You must have injured someone during that time, correct? Or is it amirite?


In all fairness, with a helmet on in a rink of thousands of fans who are also likely screaming, there is no guarantee Cooke "heard him". Or that it wasn't more of a gasp in pain with an "AHHH". I don't think people let out a prolonged "scream" and it's generally a split second sound as they can't even really catch their breath. Cooke has a history but I don't think this was intentional...he tends to go in hard and reckless and (yes, dirty) but I just didn't see it happen that way. It looks like he just loses his balance a bit and it was an unfortunate accident.
  • 0

Posted Image


#252 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,914 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:56 AM

Would  Rupertkb, offer a "look back " after disengaging from a common "puck battle" if there was someone that was screaming, or an obvious injury during a "common puck battle". i say  obvious because matt Cooke was within earshot of Karlson, who was obviously screaming! feel free to draw on your "over 2000 competitive" hockey games, including your "short stint in junior" ? You must have injured someone during that time, correct? Or is it amirite?



As Deb already pointed out, who knows if Cooke heard Karlsson, but even if he did, he's out there to do a job, not worry about the players on the opposing team.

As far as my own personal experience goes, you're correct, I have caused other players injury on occasion, but I have never cut someone with my skate. In fact in the 2000 games that you sarcastically note, I have personally witnessed a grand total of one injury caused by a skate and like the Cooke-Karlsson incident, it was completely accidental.

As far as looking to see if my opponent was okay, it would depend on the situation. I've never played in the NHL, but at my highest level of play, I was focused on the game, not the well being of opposing players.

Now that I'm play oldtimer's, things are different. The safety of everyone on the ice is more important than the game.
  • 0
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#253 elvis15

elvis15

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,838 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 07

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:23 AM

That's just it elvis, it's all opinion. The evidence is the video and that is subject to interpretation. All we can do is try to guess at his intent. And it's my opinion that Cooke was playing angry as a result of his losing it on the bench earlier in the game after being hit in the neck by a Sergei Gonchar slapshot and he carried his nasty-reckless-evil-intent mindset with him when he went into the play with Erik Karlsson.

But it's just an opinion, and a minority opinion not shared by the hockey establishment at that. But as I have pointed out, it could be that the hockey establishment's instinct is to close ranks and support Cooke as away of controlling the potential damage to the image of the game that could come with another violent incident that was deemed to be deliberate. It's not as if the opinion that this was a deliberate act doesn't exist outside of the usual official hockey channels.

And I absolutely allow for your opinion, but speculation beyond that to try and prove your point or disprove another person's is hardly a basis of fact. Opinion proves nothing, and speculation proves even less.

And I happen to think that most good people sincerely believe that this incident was an accident because the alternative is too unpalatable for them to accept. But given Cooke's apparently complete absence of remorse throughout his serial career of violent incidents I have little doubt that he is up to the mark in this regard.His public statement that his determination to change his ways was in order that "his kids shouldn't be embarrassed", nothing about maiming Marc Savard and ruining his life, for instance, is telling.

Again, speculation. I believe it was an accident because it wasn't intentional.

ac·ci·dent
/ˈaksidənt/

Noun

  • An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.


Stomping down on the calf of a player is commonplace in the game? What is the possible rationale for that forward arcing stomping motion. And please desist from addressing me as if I'm someone with no practical experience. Cut that bull will you. It doesn't wash.

This from the poster who has directed the phrases 'shrill opinion', 'intolerance of dissenting viewpoints' and 'bunch your panties' at others (all in the same post!) to try and win the debate over who's more right. You've also resorted to exaggeration and outright lies (saying that the hockey experts were opining that Hansen meant to injure Hossa yet you've provided no evidence to support that - I even provided two examples from either side to show the response has been on both sides but I have yet to see anyone of note say Hansen clearly meant to injure Hossa) to try and prop up your opinion as more than that, or at least that we're less right.

I've mentioned it before, but I ignored my own advice to not respond as I thought you might be open to the debate. Clearly that's not the case, so until you want to provide some actual evidence to support your opinion, I already know where you stand on this and don't really need to see any more of it.

Edited by elvis15, 21 February 2013 - 10:30 AM.

  • 0

c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#254 Scottish⑦Canuck

Scottish⑦Canuck

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,843 posts
  • Joined: 04-March 07

Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:02 AM

What's scary is how sharp the players blades are. We've seen a serious incident already with Zednik, and in a sport like hockey it's difficult not to envisage that happening again soon.
  • 0

#255 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,914 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

What's scary is how sharp the players blades are. We've seen a serious incident already with Zednik, and in a sport like hockey it's difficult not to envisage that happening again soon.


Incidents like the Zednik and Malarchuk ones are rare, because the skate has to be fairly high, or the victim very low, but the one to Karlsson could easily happen more often. It happened to Kevin Bieksa. Twice.

It really is time for all teams to switch to the kevlar socks. Just like helmets and visors before them, players will eventually get used to the discomfort of wearing them.

Edited by RUPERTKBD, 21 February 2013 - 02:15 PM.

  • 0
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#256 allkill326

allkill326

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,270 posts
  • Joined: 30-May 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:18 PM

Well, Vezina year for Anderson is gone.
  • 0
Posted Image

#257 Salmonberries

Salmonberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,375 posts
  • Joined: 22-November 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

And I absolutely allow for your opinion, but speculation beyond that to try and prove your point or disprove another person's is hardly a basis of fact. Opinion proves nothing, and speculation proves even less.


Again, speculation. I believe it was an accident because it wasn't intentional.



This from the poster who has directed the phrases 'shrill opinion', 'intolerance of dissenting viewpoints' and 'bunch your panties' at others (all in the same post!) to try and win the debate over who's more right. You've also resorted to exaggeration and outright lies (saying that the hockey experts were opining that Hansen meant to injure Hossa yet you've provided no evidence to support that - I even provided two examples from either side to show the response has been on both sides but I have yet to see anyone of note say Hansen clearly meant to injure Hossa) to try and prop up your opinion as more than that, or at least that we're less right.

I've mentioned it before, but I ignored my own advice to not respond as I thought you might be open to the debate. Clearly that's not the case, so until you want to provide some actual evidence to support your opinion, I already know where you stand on this and don't really need to see any more of it.

Evidence! You've provided no real evidence to support your opinion. I have stated my opinion, and you yours. And that is it. And you're right, it's played itself out.
  • 0

#258 Justin6Schultz

Justin6Schultz

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 218 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:06 PM

.

Edited by Justin6Schultz, 26 February 2013 - 06:19 PM.

  • 0

#259 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,914 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:11 PM

Evidence! You've provided no real evidence to support your opinion. I have stated my opinion, and you yours. And that is it. And you're right, it's played itself out.


When you accuse someone of a deliberate action, the burden of proof falls on the accuser, not the accused.
  • 0
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#260 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,914 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

Another serious injury today due to a skate cut. Zach Redmond of the Jets had to undergo emergency surgery after suffering a cut to his right femoral artery in practice today. I can't post a link because of the crap browser I have at work, but the full story is on TSN's main page.

Best wishes for a quick and full recovery to Zach...
  • 0
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#261 elvis15

elvis15

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,838 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 07

Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:03 PM

Another serious injury today due to a skate cut. Zach Redmond of the Jets had to undergo emergency surgery after suffering a cut to his right femoral artery in practice today. I can't post a link because of the crap browser I have at work, but the full story is on TSN's main page.

Best wishes for a quick and full recovery to Zach...

And one of the first comments I saw on it in another article was, "Was Matt Cooke there?" Thankfully not all people are at that low a maturity level.

Tough for any player to take, but even worse to have it happen in practice, which I haven't heard of for skate cuts before apart from the warmup injury to Taylor Hall.

As to the other posts: " :blink: " " :frantic: " " :sadno: "

Edited by elvis15, 21 February 2013 - 05:04 PM.

  • 0

c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#262 Justin6Schultz

Justin6Schultz

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 218 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:21 PM

.

Edited by Justin6Schultz, 24 March 2013 - 06:09 AM.

  • 0

#263 Salmonberries

Salmonberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,375 posts
  • Joined: 22-November 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:17 PM

When you accuse someone of a deliberate action, the burden of proof falls on the accuser, not the accused.

Yes, but I haven't been arguing for a criminal conviction here, just a suspension.
  • 0

#264 Justin6Schultz

Justin6Schultz

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 218 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

.

Edited by Justin6Schultz, 26 February 2013 - 08:06 PM.

  • 0

#265 Salmonberries

Salmonberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,375 posts
  • Joined: 22-November 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:33 PM

And in the meantime, let's all enjoy this classic mambo from the late great Yma Sumac.

Everybody mambo!!!


  • 1

#266 Justin6Schultz

Justin6Schultz

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 218 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 12

Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:33 PM

.

Edited by Justin6Schultz, 24 March 2013 - 05:49 AM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.