Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
- - - - -

Trade Raymond while his value is up?


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#61 Ourgodluongo

Ourgodluongo

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 721 posts
  • Joined: 01-December 07

Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:20 PM

Keep Mason Raymond. He's picked up his game this season and I've always been a fan of his game. He's a two way player with tremendous vision.
  • 2
Vancouver Canucks 2010-2011 Stanley Cup Champions!

#62 ButterBean

ButterBean

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,228 posts
  • Joined: 23-February 09

Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:27 PM

Sorry, I agree to a point. I am just sick of when our team is playing well or not they thinks it is a great time to trade away half the team. This is what got Lou on the block in the first place. I am not saying you have to like Raymond but he has been on our team for many years and deserves some respect. Hell the guy literally broke his back for us in the playoffs. Lets not trade away a guy that has shown signs of being the player we always thought he could have been and not now when that line seems to be clicking so well. It just seems like a dumb move. I am just stating my opinion. It is up to you to post if you disagree.

He's had plenty of time here to prove himself and I'm sick of hearing the excuses. How many times are we gonna let him off the hook because "he's young and full of potential", or "we'll see how he does this year and give him a free pass next year because he was coming back from an injury". I'm just saying our team has room for improvement, and he could be a good piece to move. Not saying it's a must to get rid of him.

Edited by ButterBean, 14 February 2013 - 05:28 PM.

  • 0

#63 Toni Zamboni

Toni Zamboni

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,690 posts
  • Joined: 04-December 08

Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:35 PM

nah, lets keep him if he can get "back" to pre-injury form. :frantic:
  • 0

#64 SkeeterHansen

SkeeterHansen

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,142 posts
  • Joined: 24-May 11

Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

I think your comment is compleatly uncalled for. Butter bean or whatever his name was was just stating his opinion, that is what a forum is all about. People like you have nothing insightful to say and shouldn't post. Why don't you go to the park and push a little kid off his bike.


compleatly

compleatly

compleatly

compleatly

compleatly
  • 1

/=S=/


#65 Provost

Provost

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,887 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 03

Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

How come every time a player does well in Vancouver we want to trade him???????

Raymond is back!!!! He ain't going no where unless we get a high return


He has been inconsistent for a long time (even before his back injury). It is actually quite a reasonable idea to move him while he is doing well... especially since he doesn't really add a lot unless he is scoring. When Kesler and Booth come back, we probably don't have a good spot for him on the roster.

His style is the kind that has much less effect in the playoffs when things get tight and refs don't call obstruction and hooking penalties... his 16 points in 51 career NHL playoff games and 1 point in 13 AHL playoff games tells a pretty compelling story.

If we can get a decent return from a team needing more pure offence, like a mid-range prospect and a 2nd round pick I would be happy to see that.

Edited by Provost, 14 February 2013 - 05:53 PM.

  • 0
Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!

#66 CanucksSayEh

CanucksSayEh

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,390 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 12

Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

Nobody is going to make a decent offer for a guy who is on a 1 year deal. PERIOD. We lack scoring in the playoffs, no reason to trade quality depth scoring.

Raymond is not the mold of player that fades away in the playoffs, how many more "power forwards" and "bruisers" do we need to watch go pointless series after series before people get this. Speed and skill are what is needed, something Raymond brings to the table, if he's on his game, he's gonna contribute.

Please stop calling him soft, this is a guy who broke his back, then skated off the ice, like a boss. A guy who takes a puck to the face, spits out the blood and then scores, again, like a boss.

Edited by CanucksSayEh, 14 February 2013 - 06:01 PM.

  • 2

#67 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,350 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

This is the problem. No one thinks about the OP's comment. Look:

1. Raymond has come back stronger and better and I love the way he is playing. He can be a 25 goal scorer again in this league and is proving it. Keeps playing that way going forward he will no doubt.

2. He is small. As the OP said, in the playoffs his game will disappear, and given our size issues on the third line really need that line to get bigger for a run.

3. His value is at probably an all time high. Guy scores 25, back to back poor seasons, comes back from a terrible injury, showing a great deal of heart and mental toughness...and thus the reason many legitimately want to keep him, which I get.

4. But, market value, size, team needs, its about filling gaps. If the Lou deal can do it on its own, yes you keep him, good depth scoring, can move up and down 2/3 and has an element of speed most teams dont have. Not to mention his chemistry with Schroeder. BUT our goal is to win the cup.

5. If we can get a 20 goal, 3rd line center with grit back (positional trade). Other side needs speed and a second line winger, we need a gritty 3rd liner who can chip in, you make the deal. Won't hurt scoring depth that much, you add size, lose a bit of speed but so be it.


2. I disagree, I thought in 09 and 10 playoffs he was fine. Especially in the first round in 09, I liked him in that third line role with Bernier and Wellwood (Kinda similar to now)

3, No not really, his value isn't what it was after 09/10 when it was at his highest, it is raising but no one is going to pay a premium to get him like he would have warranted in 09/10. He is showing all the things that make him a successful, talented and important hockey player for us, thats why people want to keep him.

4. Our goal is to win a cup, which is why dealing Raymond likely won't help us. Unless you want Dave Steckel, we aren't going to get a quality player in return for Raymond, the only teams interested in taking a flyer on him (after all he is an upcoming UFA) would be other teams looking to fill holes and bulk up for a run, it is unlikely they would give up anything current back, it would likely be picks/prospects. That doesn't help us, not sure what you are expecting but Raymond won't likely bring it back for us, he is more valuable to us right now than he is on the market.

5. We don't need anymore wingers, our only need is a 4th line LH centerman who can take draws, and is a defensive zone guy who brings energy (someone like Jim Slater) aside from that we might need a 3rd line center but only if the player comes at a reasonable price and only if he is a clear and significant upgrade on what we have. That package you described doesn't come cheap, we will have to pay a price and it would likely be one that doesn't make sense.
  • 1

zackass.png


#68 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,350 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

Nobody is going to make a decent offer for a guy who is on a 1 year deal. PERIOD. We lack scoring in the playoffs, no reason to trade quality depth scoring.

Raymond is not the mold of player that fades away in the playoffs, how many more "power forwards" and "bruisers" do we need to watch go pointless series after series before people get this. Speed and skill are what is needed, something Raymond brings to the table, if he's on his game, he's gonna contribute.

Please stop calling him soft, this is a guy who broke his back, then skated off the ice, like a boss. A guy who takes a puck to the face, spits out the blood and then scores, again, like a boss.


Reached limited of +'s I could give.

Great post, +1

You hit the nail on the head.
  • 1

zackass.png


#69 BedBeats™2.0

BedBeats™2.0

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,310 posts
  • Joined: 04-March 03

Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:55 PM

Or maybe he's 27 and just reaching his prime.

For 2.3 million, why not keep him and take that gamble?

People don't give him enough credit for his skill and versatility.


He is also an excellent PK'er. And its easy to see he has worked hard to improve his playmaking, i mean he really looks night and day different from what normally frustrated fans.

He uses his speed to back off the D.

The Canucks, when having the full roster are built and use plays designed for speed.

Subtracting him from a 3rd line that really has an identity would be a horrible move.
  • 1

Posted Image

Henrik breaking records.Kes approving.


#70 ButterBean

ButterBean

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,228 posts
  • Joined: 23-February 09

Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:54 PM

Nobody is going to make a decent offer for a guy who is on a 1 year deal. PERIOD. We lack scoring in the playoffs, no reason to trade quality depth scoring.

Raymond is not the mold of player that fades away in the playoffs, how many more "power forwards" and "bruisers" do we need to watch go pointless series after series before people get this. Speed and skill are what is needed, something Raymond brings to the table, if he's on his game, he's gonna contribute.

Please stop calling him soft, this is a guy who broke his back, then skated off the ice, like a boss. A guy who takes a puck to the face, spits out the blood and then scores, again, like a boss.

I'm not too sure we have the same definition of bruisers/power forwards, especially if you think we have too many. Hansen, Higgins, Burrows, Lappy, Weise, Kesler and Booth are good checkers and energy players but are by no means bruisers, and certainly not experienced scrappers. A solid hit time to time but not consistent with big hits. The Sedins, Schroeder, and Raymond obviously don't play a tough game either. So that leaves Kassian, Volpatti, and Bieksa on D(imo), and even they have had their fair share of being on the bad side of some fights. Of course speed and skill are needed, but size and toughness are just as important and Stanley Cup champions these days have a mix of both.

Back on Raymond though, even though he looked good against Boston and LA, there still isn't offensive production. His role is to put up points. Being on the 2nd line of a Stanley Cup winning team would require some of that, no? It's all good that he used his speed to stay in the offensive zone and make defensive plays but we already have plenty of guys who have that role, just minus the elite speed.
  • 0

#71 VancouverCanucksRock

VancouverCanucksRock

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,462 posts
  • Joined: 11-February 09

Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:15 PM

He is playing well but I still hate him so I'm all for it and bring in a physical player winger or a 3rd line center

Why do I get the impression you're around 15 years old?
  • 0
Posted Image WHen idiots think numbers are words, I do believe in 2012 for cleansing Earth of the idiots

#72 Drop Em

Drop Em

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 279 posts
  • Joined: 24-February 09

Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:53 PM

Nobody is going to make a decent offer for a guy who is on a 1 year deal. PERIOD. We lack scoring in the playoffs, no reason to trade quality depth scoring.

Raymond is not the mold of player that fades away in the playoffs, how many more "power forwards" and "bruisers" do we need to watch go pointless series after series before people get this. Speed and skill are what is needed, something Raymond brings to the table, if he's on his game, he's gonna contribute.

Please stop calling him soft, this is a guy who broke his back, then skated off the ice, like a boss. A guy who takes a puck to the face, spits out the blood and then scores, again, like a boss.


"We lack scoring in the playoffs, no reason to trade quality depth scoring"...............................You obviously haven't looked at Raymond's playoff stats because if you had, then you wouldn't have made this statement. Raymond has 2 goals in his last 29 playoff games, so please enlighten us as to how he's going to help with our lack of playoff scoring when he's one of the main culprits in NOT providing any playoff scoring despite being given every opportunity to do so?
  • 0

#73 fagin

fagin

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,535 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 08

Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:53 PM

Forget straight up but packaged with a roster player/prospect/pick or something. Fact is our forward core still needs some more size/toughness and Raymond has never put up good playoff numbers and I don't expect to change that all of a sudden. Last year he had little stretches where he played well like this too and he has trouble doing is consistently.

....It's pretty difficult to envisage trading him or anyone else until we see how well Kesler is when he returns.Wouldn't want to jump the gun before both Kes and Booths play has been monitored.
  • 0

#74 Zoolander

Zoolander

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,190 posts
  • Joined: 29-February 12

Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:56 PM

I'm not too sure we have the same definition of bruisers/power forwards, especially if you think we have too many. Hansen, Higgins, Burrows, Lappy, Weise, Kesler and Booth are good checkers and energy players but are by no means bruisers, and certainly not experienced scrappers. A solid hit time to time but not consistent with big hits. The Sedins, Schroeder, and Raymond obviously don't play a tough game either. So that leaves Kassian, Volpatti, and Bieksa on D(imo), and even they have had their fair share of being on the bad side of some fights. Of course speed and skill are needed, but size and toughness are just as important and Stanley Cup champions these days have a mix of both.

Back on Raymond though, even though he looked good against Boston and LA, there still isn't offensive production. His role is to put up points. Being on the 2nd line of a Stanley Cup winning team would require some of that, no? It's all good that he used his speed to stay in the offensive zone and make defensive plays but we already have plenty of guys who have that role, just minus the elite speed.


I stopped reading after that,

Kesler and Booth are 2-way/PowerForwards and if you watch some of the hits they throw....they're good enough to get by in the playoffs.

We're fine for toughness, we've added Volpatti,Weise,Garrison, Kassian to our already feisty top 4 D-men and bottom 6 forwards.
  • 0
My 2014 Draft wishlist: 1st rd: Draisaitl, Virtanen, Scherbak. 2nd rd: Brendan Lemieux, Thatcher Demko (Goalie)
Posted Image
Future Canucks top 6:
Shinkaruk-Draisaitl-Scherbak
Virtanen-Horvat-Jensen

#75 fagin

fagin

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,535 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 08

Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:00 PM

I'm not too sure we have the same definition of bruisers/power forwards, especially if you think we have too many. Hansen, Higgins, Burrows, Lappy, Weise, Kesler and Booth are good checkers and energy players but are by no means bruisers, and certainly not experienced scrappers. A solid hit time to time but not consistent with big hits. The Sedins, Schroeder, and Raymond obviously don't play a tough game either. So that leaves Kassian, Volpatti, and Bieksa on D(imo), and even they have had their fair share of being on the bad side of some fights. Of course speed and skill are needed, but size and toughness are just as important and Stanley Cup champions these days have a mix of both.

Back on Raymond though, even though he looked good against Boston and LA, there still isn't offensive production. His role is to put up points. Being on the 2nd line of a Stanley Cup winning team would require some of that, no? It's all good that he used his speed to stay in the offensive zone and make defensive plays but we already have plenty of guys who have that role, just minus the elite speed.

........And his line mates on this "2nd line" did precisely what last playoffs.........Apart from skate onto the ice.
  • 2

#76 CanucksSayEh

CanucksSayEh

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,390 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 12

Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:01 PM

Thinking back, it's too bad Raymond didn't leave for Europe earlier, the lockout pretty much ended while he was on the plane. It would have been interesting to see how he did on euro ice.
  • 0

#77 Ghostsof1915

Ghostsof1915

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,888 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 07

Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:27 PM

If we get an offer that's crazy good sure.

Otherwise. No.
  • 0
GO CANUCKS GO!
"The Canucks did not lose in 1994. They just ran out of time.." Barry MacDonald Team1040

Posted Image

#78 surtur

surtur

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,786 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 10

Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:35 AM

He's 3rd on the team in points and this season he's playing very well. But will it translate in the playoffs? I don't think so. His game isn't suited for the playoffs and he'll get pushed around, pluis he could fetch a decent return straight up or packaged with Luongo. Some teams could use his skillset more than us. Not trying to be a downer, or a "hater", and I realize our team is doing well now. We can always improve.

if it ain't broke don't fix it esp in a short season.
  • 0

Release The KraKassian
Kassianthe_Krakensm.jpg


#79 Baggins

Baggins

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,239 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 03

Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:43 AM

"We lack scoring in the playoffs, no reason to trade quality depth scoring"...............................You obviously haven't looked at Raymond's playoff stats because if you had, then you wouldn't have made this statement. Raymond has 2 goals in his last 29 playoff games, so please enlighten us as to how he's going to help with our lack of playoff scoring when he's one of the main culprits in NOT providing any playoff scoring despite being given every opportunity to do so?


In his first 31 playoff games (first four seasons) Daniel had 3 goals. In the 10/11 run alone he had 9 goals in 25 games. Some take longer than others to figure out how to succeed in the playoffs. It doesn't mean Raymond never will.
  • 1
Posted Image

#80 Baggins

Baggins

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,239 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 03

Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:49 AM

If we get an offer that's crazy good sure.

Otherwise. No.


Well then the answer is no. Would you offer something "crazy good" for a 2nd/3rd line pending ufa? The only way a team is interested in Raymond is adding him for a cup run. Which means they won't be looking to subtract from their team. Which in turn means we won't get anything useful for our own attempt at a cup run. How "crazy good" is that?
  • 0
Posted Image

#81 ~AngelBelle~

~AngelBelle~

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 125 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 11

Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:00 AM

Trade this "Canucks fan" while his trade value is up!

He's 3rd on the boards in trolls and this season he's trolling very well. But will it translate - to english - in the playoffs? I don't think so. His post isn't suited for the boards and he'll get pushed around, plus he could fetch a horrible return straight up or packaged with Luongo for something we could already get for just Luongo. Some trolls could use his skillset more than us. Trying to be a downer, and a "hater", but our team is doing well now. He can always improve.


^this

Player X in a slump. DUMP HIM
Player X doing well. ...well uh...DUMP HIM WHILE HIS VALUE"S HIGH.

These "fans" lol
  • 3

#82 ice orca

ice orca

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,469 posts
  • Joined: 07-October 10

Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:48 AM

^this

Player X in a slump. DUMP HIM
Player X doing well. ...well uh...DUMP HIM WHILE HIS VALUE"S HIGH.

These "fans" lol

This..Raymond haters are in full meltdown mode, get rid of him now before he throws more mud in their faces.
  • 1

#83 Bodee

Bodee

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Joined: 26-May 11

Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:00 PM

I remember lots of players gettin pushed around in the playoffs. Mason Raymond was not one of em.


Your damn straight.........no one can catch him!

Now maybe a lot of people on here will know why I said at the end of last season when the anti-Raymond frenzy was at it's worst.........."I would love to see him go to a team like Chicago or Philly just to here you guys squeal when he gutted us"

Edited by Bodee, 15 February 2013 - 12:04 PM.

  • 0
Kevin.jpg

#84 VicNuckleHead09

VicNuckleHead09

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 361 posts
  • Joined: 01-July 09

Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:45 PM

Frankly put, don't trade a player that is living up to their potential cause of playoff stats alone. I think he makes our team all the more dangerous. Other teams are going to have to stock up one line to deal with the size of our second line. The 3rd is then left to use their speed against other players that are not going to be able to keep up. I have noticed much better zone and board play over the last 4-5 games overall and I think this will continue once we slot Kesler back into the line-up.
  • 0
Posted Image
"Louuuuuuuuuu!" - Last game Attended: Vancouver vs. Penguins
Email me

#85 Vansicle

Vansicle

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,607 posts
  • Joined: 24-August 09

Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:57 PM

Sh!t, why not? Trade Kassian while his value is up. Or Hank, who is about to surpass the Canucks' all-time points record.
AV's record is great too. Trade him.
Oh. No. Wait. Don't do any of those things.
  • 0

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#86 Vansicle

Vansicle

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,607 posts
  • Joined: 24-August 09

Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:21 PM

... especially since he doesn't really add a lot unless he is scoring ...

Not true.
He plays well away from the puck. His speed creates time and space. He plays well defensively. He checks.
Mason Raymond is not the problem. In fact, there isn't really a "the problem". It's more of a patch quite of small issues, and at this time, they are not a problem.
  • 0

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#87 Alexander 7he Great

Alexander 7he Great

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 13

Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:11 AM

That is uncalled for. U mad brah?


Clearly you are since I wasn't talking to you hahaha
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.