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Manny Malholtra will miss remainder of the season.


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#241 DeNiro

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:39 AM

Man, I hope the Canucks can win the cup this year & petition to have Manny Malhotra as the extra name on the Stanley Cup. He clearly WANTED the cup badly. GO CANUCKS GO.


He would have to play 1 game in the finals to have his name on the cup.

If it got to that point, the classy thing to do would be to let him play the one game. Even if it's just in a limited capacity.
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#242 WHL rocks

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:39 AM

Well, it has nothing to do with cap right now, as I know you must know. They could put him on LTI if we do trade for someone with a higher cap hit (like moving a $1M player for a $3M player) but I don't know that's the plan considering we have to drop salary to get under the cap next year. If we bring in a rental, I'm sure Gillis wouldn't want to give up much in assets to do it, and if he moves someone like Ballard it'll be for someone cheaper. Even a Luongo deal won't bring back more cap that goes out.

Manny is a loss for us for sure, even if you just consider the depth he brings. It's tough personally for him as well, since he's such a competitor. And those of us who are fans of his play and character certainly hope he's ok emotionally with the decision and will be fine moving forward.


Yah, it doesn't affect the cap right now. Canucks have approx 900k in cap space. But when there is a Luongo trade I think we will take back more than $5.3 mill in cap hit. I am confident there will be more than 1 player coming back. That remains to be seen. It doesn't have to be a Luongo trade. This team needs to get tougher in the tip 6. MG may have another potential trade in the works to bring in some size and grit.

When Canucks do make a trade they can't put Manny on LTIR a few mins before making the trade call. The optics wouldn't be good and the league would take issue. Manny hasn't been playing great besides from the face offs. He's got 2 shots on net this season. The fact is he wasn't earning his $2.5 mill cheque any more.

You don't play him 100 games and then decide he's not fit to play. Any chance of legal issues is mitigated by the fact doctors have cleared Manny to play. Most ppl take everything a team GM says at face value. I don't. Anyone who believes a lawyer word for word is naive IMO. MG is a lawyer and a pretty darn good one.

I too am a fan of Manny's character and was a fan of his play before he got injured. When he got injured I was one of only a hand full of ppl on CDC who believed in him and maintained Manny would return for the 4th and final round of playoffs. Took a lot of heat from other CDC members at the time, but I believed in him and made a judgement call.

I don't think he's at all happy about this decision by the organisation. Manny spent a lot of time and energy getting ready for the season, he didn't come in thinking he would be given 10 games to make his case. I'm pretty sure he's angry and frustrated, hence the media blackout from him.
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#243 Alex Edler 23

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:45 AM

He would have to play 1 game in the finals to have his name on the cup.

If it got to that point, the classy thing to do would be to let him play the one game. Even if it's just in a limited capacity.


Didn't Marc Savard get his name engraved on the cup even though he didn't even play most of the season in 10-11

Edited by Alex Edler 23, 15 February 2013 - 12:46 AM.

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#244 Canuck or Die

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:46 AM

He would have to play 1 game in the finals to have his name on the cup.

If it got to that point, the classy thing to do would be to let him play the one game. Even if it's just in a limited capacity.


No, we can petition to have his name on the cup without having him play in the finals. Just like Boston did with Marc Savard.
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#245 DeNiro

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:49 AM

No, we can petition to have his name on the cup without having him play in the finals. Just like Boston did with Marc Savard.


And the league allowed him to have his name on the cup?

I must have missed that.
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#246 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:56 AM

And the league allowed him to have his name on the cup?

I must have missed that.


The team can petition to have 1 name in addition to players who played in the playoffs IIRC.
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#247 pomorick

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:03 AM

Hopefully without dealing with body contact for the balance of the season he recovers sight in his bad eye somewhat and the chance
of further retinal damage diminishes and he is good to go next year. If not at least he will be able to live his life with his family and still
drive a car, see his kids grow up and be a part of their lives. There is more to life than hockey and the Canucks are even offering him
a job with the organization. A guy like Gaunce could learn an awful lot from Manny. Having Manny on his side and helping him become
a pro could be the difference between making it or not making it to the big leagues. Every year we have rookies in need of mentoring and encouragement. Manny seems like the perfect person to do that for our forward prospects.
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#248 Vancouver's comeback

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:39 AM

I may be incorrect, but didn't the Kings get Simon Gagne's name on the Cup last year, despite him not playing during the playoffs?
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#249 ajhockey

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:35 AM

I have to say, this whole thing is affecting me emotionally more than I thought it would. I guess he's had more of an impact on me than I realized.

Edited by ajhockey, 15 February 2013 - 02:35 AM.

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#250 ~AngelBelle~

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:59 AM

Manny is such a great guy...feels so sad to hear this. Get well soon Manny
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#251 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:08 AM

Well, it has nothing to do with cap right now, as I know you must know. They could put him on LTI if we do trade for someone with a higher cap hit (like moving a $1M player for a $3M player) but I don't know that's the plan considering we have to drop salary to get under the cap next year.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think the Canucks will add someone to replace Manny, unless they decide to include a defensive center in a potential Luongo deal.

As it sits, I think they'll use what they have. Kesler is due back soon and I think Schroeder will be sticking around for a while.
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#252 Riviera82

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:11 AM

Looks like Gillis is giving Malhotra the Tom Larscheid treatment.
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#253 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:36 AM

it was time to go. lets be real, most opponents have been giving him a pass as he skates around almost blind.
stay w/ club Manny, mentoring and coaching.
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#254 Vansicle

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:05 AM

This seems like maybe it was the plan all along. Kes comes back, Manny is placed on LTIR for the remainder of the season. Impending cap issues addressed to a degree when Manny retires and serves the team at a different capacity.
And that's not meant in a cynical way. I think it absolutely the right thing to do to do right by Manny. It actually works out beautifully.
And as many have said, I hope that if they are able to win the cup that they petition to have his name engraved in it, too.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#255 oldnews

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:04 AM

I see that alot of people have run with the allegation that Gillis is unceremoniously cap dumping Malhotra's career (I'm referring to the comments posted on TSN in the locked thread).
What they don't realize imo is that the Canucks really need Manny... He plays/ed and extremely important role on this team, and very effectively. The Canucks don't need to make a "cap dump" - they are cap compliant - and Malhotra is a free agent at season's end when the Canucks will actually need to address cap issues. What this does is leave a big gap in the bottom six at the most crucial position to this organization. It means they actually need to spend asset value to acquire another depth center and very few guys in the league make a comparable substitute in that role. And I highly, highly doubt that Gillis is looking to take back over 8 million in salary in a Luongo deal - that is what it would take - more than Luongo's salary, to hold up a Luongo deal. That seems entirely unrealistic considering the cap drop at season's end.
I think this decision actually hurts the Canucks and Gillis more than any cap benefit under the circumstances.
Spare us the conspiratorial cap circumvention nonsense - imo you don't know what you're talking about. There are two legitimate considerations to a decision - has the serious eye injury effected his ability to perform and does it effect the player's safety? I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision based solely on cap issues.

Edited by oldnews, 15 February 2013 - 10:38 AM.

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#256 D-Money

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:07 AM

I don't think he's at all happy about this decision by the organisation. Manny spent a lot of time and energy getting ready for the season, he didn't come in thinking he would be given 10 games to make his case. I'm pretty sure he's angry and frustrated, hence the media blackout from him.


I wonder about this. If this were an completely amicable decision, Manny would have had a press conference by now. It wouldn't have been so hush-hush beforehand, either. Also, the first article I read had a quick blurb that stated Malhotra is not prepared to announce his retirement.

The fact that the Canucks are right up against the cap adds a suspicious tone to this. The GM has gone on record as stating that many of the offers he has gotten for Luongo have required that he take back salary. But with Booth and Kesler coming back, he could not take any more salary back than Luongo's 5.3...until now.

That said, just because it looks suspicious, doesn't mean that the reasons for doing it aren't 100% legitimate. If there wasn't a clear medical basis, and/or Manny was dead-set against it, the league and/or union would not allow this to happen.

I think at this point Manny is mad/upset about this. He's coming to grips that the only career that he has ever had is now over. But at the same time, he probably realizes that it is in his and his family's best interests. Soon as the shock has passed, and the emotions died down, Manny will likely have the presser.
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#257 WHL rocks

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:38 AM

I see that alot of halfwits have run with the allegation that Gillis is unceremoniously cap dumping Malhotra's career.
What these ignorant armchairs don't realize is that the Canucks really need Manny... He plays/ed and extremely important role on this team, and very effectively. The Canucks don't need to make a "cap dump" - they are cap compliant - and Malhotra is a free agent at season's end when the Canucks will actually need to address cap issues. What this does is leave a big gap in the bottom six at the most crucial position to this organization. It means they actually need to spend asset value to acquire another depth center and very few guys in the league make a comparable substitute in that role.
Spare us the conspiratorial cap circumvention nonsense - you don't know what you're talking about. There are two legitimate considerations to a decision - has the serious eye injury effected his ability to perform and does it effect the player's safety? I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision.


And you are a full wit?

Obviously his eye injury has affected his ability to perform. Other wise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Manny was a Selke nominee before he got hurt. If Manny was playing great he would still be on the team. No one is suggesting MG did this despite Manny being a great player. The fact is Manny is no longer a $2.5 mill player. At league minimum maybe, $2.5, NO. Manny is not good enough to be on the roster anymore.

Manny is medically cleared to play. MG is not a doctor. I would persume doctors would know more than MG if it's safe for Manny to play or not. His injury is an excuse.

Manny got pushed out because his play has deterioration to a point where he is not helping the team, particularly with his salary and cap hit. It was either go on LTI or be placed on waivers.
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#258 canucksnihilist

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:46 AM

Does that mean I can get my name on the cup if I'm in good with the winning team?

lol ;)
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#259 RonnyMB

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:50 AM

Really wish they wouldn't throw around the "out for personal reasons" excuse.... It can lead people to think the worst....

Really hope Manny was at least partially onboard for this..
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#260 oldnews

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:51 AM

And you are a full wit?

Obviously his eye injury has affected his ability to perform. Other wise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Manny was a Selke nominee before he got hurt. If Manny was playing great he would still be on the team. No one is suggesting MG did this despite Manny being a great player. The fact is Manny is no longer a $2.5 mill player. At league minimum maybe, $2.5, NO. Manny is not good enough to be on the roster anymore.

Manny is medically cleared to play. MG is not a doctor. I would persume doctors would know more than MG if it's safe for Manny to play or not. His injury is an excuse.

Manny got pushed out because his play has deterioration to a point where he is not helping the team, particularly with his salary and cap hit. It was either go on LTI or be placed on waivers.


It was pretty clearly a rhetorical question that didn't need to be answered WHL - but what wasn't clear was that the tone of my post was a response to comments coming out of the east, not posters in this thread who are debating this decision without the obvious slant that Gillis has solely ulterior motives (my intention was not to direct those comments at posters like you - my apologies if it came accross that way - I was actually editing that post as you were responding because I realized it could be taken that way). Obviously I'm aware that it was the injury that effected his play - that was the point I was making - and that alone makes the decision legitimate - whether you consider Manny not good enough to be on the roster anymore or not, or whether it is a legitimate safety issue or not. If Manny isn't good enough, as you state, is that not a direct result of his setback?
This is one of those grey areas, like concussions, where the management and coaching staff have to assess whether the player appears to 'be himself' - they simply can't know what he sees - but the result of vision tests would be interesting to know - if the results were as before the injury I doubt they could make this decision. Manny is still a very effective faceoff guy - aside from that, the Canucks have decided that his vision is not good enough.
How could Manny possibly be happy with the decision? Malhotra's happiness unfortunately is not Gillis priority - and in the end, Malhotra will still earn what he deserves, the remaining salary on his contract.

Edited by oldnews, 15 February 2013 - 11:23 AM.

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#261 elvis15

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

Yah, it doesn't affect the cap right now. Canucks have approx 900k in cap space. But when there is a Luongo trade I think we will take back more than $5.3 mill in cap hit. I am confident there will be more than 1 player coming back. That remains to be seen. It doesn't have to be a Luongo trade. This team needs to get tougher in the tip 6. MG may have another potential trade in the works to bring in some size and grit.

When Canucks do make a trade they can't put Manny on LTIR a few mins before making the trade call. The optics wouldn't be good and the league would take issue. Manny hasn't been playing great besides from the face offs. He's got 2 shots on net this season. The fact is he wasn't earning his $2.5 mill cheque any more.

You don't play him 100 games and then decide he's not fit to play. Any chance of legal issues is mitigated by the fact doctors have cleared Manny to play. Most ppl take everything a team GM says at face value. I don't. Anyone who believes a lawyer word for word is naive IMO. MG is a lawyer and a pretty darn good one.

I too am a fan of Manny's character and was a fan of his play before he got injured. When he got injured I was one of only a hand full of ppl on CDC who believed in him and maintained Manny would return for the 4th and final round of playoffs. Took a lot of heat from other CDC members at the time, but I believed in him and made a judgement call.

I don't think he's at all happy about this decision by the organisation. Manny spent a lot of time and energy getting ready for the season, he didn't come in thinking he would be given 10 games to make his case. I'm pretty sure he's angry and frustrated, hence the media blackout from him.

They also aren't helped by putting him on LTI now, and in fact it's been stated already that they haven't. If it comes to it later, they might use the LTI relief, but as such it has no cap implications currently. Even then, unless we take on a cap dump for only this year in a trade, I don't see it being an issue with a Luongo deal or otherwise since we can't hope to bring back someone like O'Reilly, Kessel or Ovechkin and expect to fit under the cap next year without severe cuts elsewhere.

Besides, if the league didn't take issue with the Islanders trading nothing for Thomas' cap hit (assuming he doesn't play, the conditional pick never becomes a condition), then how could they take issue with us putting Manny on either IR or LTI? If they had any concern, or even if the NHLPA did, they'd ask for an independent medical evaluation and that'd come back that he has vision issues in his eye. He might pass the tests, but it's subjective from there whether or not it's safe for the player and there's no way to prove he absolutely should be safe to play with that as a concern.

It's speculative at this point whether or not he's happy with the decision, or happy with the organization for protecting his health. We know the organization is classy enough to move a player who has earned the right to play, and if Manny said he disagreed and would fight to play the team would have likely agree to a trade or at least let him go to waivers to see if someone would pick him up.

This seems like maybe it was the plan all along. Kes comes back, Manny is placed on LTIR for the remainder of the season. Impending cap issues addressed to a degree when Manny retires and serves the team at a different capacity.
And that's not meant in a cynical way. I think it absolutely the right thing to do to do right by Manny. It actually works out beautifully.
And as many have said, I hope that if they are able to win the cup that they petition to have his name engraved in it, too.

As mentioned, he hasn't been put on LTI and doing so now would gain us nothing as we're already under the cap. We can't bank LTI relief.
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#262 gizmo2337

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

Manny is medically cleared to play. MG is not a doctor. I would persume doctors would know more than MG if it's safe for Manny to play or not. His injury is an excuse.


I'm curious why Dr Recchi hasn't added his 2 cents yet?
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#263 oldnews

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

They also aren't helped by putting him on LTI now, and in fact it's been stated already that they haven't. If it comes to it later, they might use the LTI relief, but as such it has no cap implications currently. Even then, unless we take on a cap dump for only this year in a trade, I don't see it being an issue with a Luongo deal or otherwise since we can't hope to bring back someone like O'Reilly, Kessel or Ovechkin and expect to fit under the cap next year without severe cuts elsewhere.

Besides, if the league didn't take issue with the Islanders trading nothing for Thomas' cap hit (assuming he doesn't play, the conditional pick never becomes a condition), then how could they take issue with us putting Manny on either IR or LTI? If they had any concern, or even if the NHLPA did, they'd ask for an independent medical evaluation and that'd come back that he has vision issues in his eye. He might pass the tests, but it's subjective from there whether or not it's safe for the player and there's no way to prove he absolutely should be safe to play with that as a concern.

It's speculative at this point whether or not he's happy with the decision, or happy with the organization for protecting his health. We know the organization is classy enough to move a player who has earned the right to play, and if Manny said he disagreed and would fight to play the team would have likely agree to a trade or at least let him go to waivers to see if someone would pick him up.


As mentioned, he hasn't been put on LTI and doing so now would gain us nothing as we're already under the cap. We can't bank LTI relief.


good, relevant points.
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#264 Neutral-Zoned

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:26 AM

I'm guessing that maybe Gillis knew Malholtra would have to go on IR a while ago, but just waited and held his breathe for the return of Kesler, thus giving the 'Nucks more options at center ice while Kesler was out.
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Injuries has certainly a great part in the struggling. The funny thing is that we got them injuries when the season barely has started.


ps... sorry LiveeviL. I had to do this.

#265 elvis15

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

good, relevant points.

I mean, they made the effort to trade SOB and Hordichuck, didn't they? Why wouldn't they do so for Manny if he really disagreed and wanted to play still?

I could see Manny wanting to stay in Vancouver and having to weigh that decision against continuing to play, but then that would be his choice and might mean he's weighing the option of retirement versus playing in a new city.

I'm guessing that maybe Gillis knew Malholtra would have to go on IR a while ago, but just waited and held his breathe for the return of Kesler, thus giving the 'Nucks more options at center ice while Kesler was out.

It was up earlier in the thread but you may have missed it: Gillis was convinced by Manny to give him a chance after a proper off-season of training. Gillis gave him 10 games (9 actually) and then pulled him from even practices before giving him time to make a decision. He likely let Manny know his thoughts and asked what Manny wanted to do, retire, move on somewhere else, etc.

Manny may not be fully decided on what he wants to do right now, and if he does decide he wants to play more, and team will have access to all the medical history and the concerns the Canucks have right now. Gillis can't stop him from ever playing again and risking his safety, but he can decide that it won't be for this team.

What's more likely than the Canucks moving Manny to LTI later in the season is Manny retires and accepts a scouting/coaching/front office role with the Canucks, or he decides he does want to play and we allow himm to move on elsewhere.

Edited by elvis15, 15 February 2013 - 11:43 AM.

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#266 poetica

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:57 AM

Doesn't sound good. :(

Best wishes to him and his family!
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#267 Vansicle

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

I see that alot of people have run with the allegation that Gillis is unceremoniously cap dumping Malhotra's career (I'm referring to the comments posted on TSN in the locked thread).
What they don't realize imo is that the Canucks really need Manny... He plays/ed and extremely important role on this team, and very effectively. The Canucks don't need to make a "cap dump" - they are cap compliant - and Malhotra is a free agent at season's end when the Canucks will actually need to address cap issues. What this does is leave a big gap in the bottom six at the most crucial position to this organization. It means they actually need to spend asset value to acquire another depth center and very few guys in the league make a comparable substitute in that role. And I highly, highly doubt that Gillis is looking to take back over 8 million in salary in a Luongo deal - that is what it would take - more than Luongo's salary, to hold up a Luongo deal. That seems entirely unrealistic considering the cap drop at season's end.
I think this decision actually hurts the Canucks and Gillis more than any cap benefit under the circumstances.
Spare us the conspiratorial cap circumvention nonsense - imo you don't know what you're talking about. There are two legitimate considerations to a decision - has the serious eye injury effected his ability to perform and does it effect the player's safety? I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision based solely on cap issues.

Unless Manny is on on it from the beggining.
There could easily have been a conversation between MM and MG, instigated by either, wherein they came up with the idea together.
MM may have been having eye issues the whole time. He could have gone to mgmt and said "I have this idea".
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#268 elvis15

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

NHL ‘satisfied’ with Canucks’ decision to place Malhotra on IR

The NHL is not taking issue with the Vancouver Canucks’ decision to place forward Manny Malhotraon injured reserve, despite the fact the 32-year-old who suffered a serious eye injury in 2011 has appeared in nine games this season.

Deputy commissioner Bill Daly told the Vancouver Sun’s Brad Ziemer that “the league is satisfied and has approved the team’s and player’s joint decision to discontinue the player’s participation in NHL games at this time on the basis of the player’s current medical condition and the risk of injury that such condition poses.”

The Canucks announced the move yesterday, with general manager Mike Gillis suggesting Malhotra’s impaired vision put the veteran player at risk on the ice.

“I have to make the decision and I wouldn’t put anybody in a position (if) I was uncomfortable with their ability to protect themselves,” said Gillis, “or their ability to function out on the ice and be at a higher risk than normal, particularly in today’s game where it so fast, the players are big … I wasn’t prepared to live with that any longer.


And the source info from twitter, basically the same as in the article.

Brad Ziemer@BradZiemer
Some have questioned whether #Canucks should be able to put Malhotra on IR given that he had been playing & there was no apparent new injury
But Bill Daly says NHL is okay with it: "The League is satisfied and has approved the team's and Player's joint decision to discontinue ..
More Daly: "the Player's participation in NHL games at this time on the basis of the Player's current medical condition. . .
More Daly: "and the risk of injury that such condition poses."


Edited by elvis15, 15 February 2013 - 12:28 PM.

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c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#269 rwisaak

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:47 PM

As others have said, this seems pretty clear - it's most likely a mutually agreed unofficial retirement. I'd be shocked if this wasn't at least partially his own decision. Of course the team can't say that for obvious reasons - plausible deniability. Not a crazy conspiracy theory, but a logical CBA loophole already discussed at length by analysts a lot smarter than myself.

As I understand it, if a players retires, the team still keeps a portion of remaining salary against the cap. On LTIR, on the other hand, cap hit is negated. So an injured player ready to retire might as well stay on LTIR until the contract is done. I realize he's actually on IR rather than LTIR for now, but that status can easily be changed when/if necessary for cap relief. If he officially retires outright, on the other hand, that option's off the table for good. I'm sure it won't be the last time we see this scenario under the current CBA.

Everything fits. At least that's my mostly uneducated take on it.

Edit: I just want to be clear, I don't think the continued eye problem and danger involved is being faked at all, I just believe that retirement is the end goal and that they are simply unable/unwilling to announce that in order to maintain cap flexibility, and I believe that Manny is completely on board with this.

Edited by rwisaak, 15 February 2013 - 12:59 PM.

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#270 Vansicle

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:50 PM

That said, just because it looks suspicious, doesn't mean that the reasons for doing it aren't 100% legitimate. If there wasn't a clear medical basis, and/or Manny was dead-set against it, the league and/or union would not allow this to happen.

This. All day long.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 





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