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#91 bossram

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

I'd be hesitant to put Garrison on the right-side. I've been noticing he had below-average puck handling on his forehand. I wouldn't want to force him to use his backhand. He has a tendency to just chop at the puck; he's not very smooth.

That being said, I would like to reunite the Hamhuis-Bieksa pairing. The real problem here is we need another right-handed defenseman.
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What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#92 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

good thing you will never be the coach. that is horrible, Barker over Bieksa?


Yeah Its time to send Bieksa a wake up call. For the most part he has been pretty terrible this year. That is one way to shake it up and get his attention, and to send him a message that we need him to play better.

I think I mentioned this in PGT. Just put Ballard and Tanev on the PP with Kes and the Sedins. Tanev is pretty good at moving the puck and Ballard seems to be good at it as well, plus he seems that he can shoot the puck AND hit the net.


I agree, I just wish AV would give it a shot, when the PP continues to struggle something needs to change.
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#93 nuck nit

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:10 PM

Yea, we've seen lots of Bieksa without those two players(Mitchell and Hamhuis). Nothing to write home about. You're right, he's a secondary player. So wait... what's with the paycheque?


Gillis ,in his infinite wisdom,decided that Bieksa was more valuable to the team than Ehrhoff.
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#94 disisdayear

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:40 PM

Ballard definitely deserves a shot at a bigger role. So does Tanev, honestly.


This I agree with. Based on the way they are playing, Ballard and Tanev should have their icetime from 17mins/16mins respectively bumped up to 18-19 minutes each.

Edler continues to have inconsistency issues with his defensive zone coverage, and with Bieksa...well, you know what you're getting with him (high risk/high reward). Hamhuis has been his usual steady, quiet self, and Garrison is starting show that he can be relied on defensively (and he's been hung out to dry by Bieksa on more than a few occasion). I think Edler and Bieksa's icetime needs to be pared back with this time given to Ballard and Tanev.

For the past few seasons, the Canucks have been playing a five man attack game in the offensive zone with the d-men doing a lot of pinching. Obviously, this is high risk and high reward (which suits Bieksa's mindset). The Canucks of 2012-2013 so far has been playing a much more patient/conservative/defensive game which I believe explains partly as to the renaissance of Luongo. With Kesler coming back and some recent success the team has enjoyed offensively, I believe the Canucks are trying to transition back to their attack first mentality, which didn't serve them well last night (especially the bad pinches by Bieksa and Edler). I'll be interested to see if the Canucks go back to a more defensive mindset against the Blues, or try to move their game to a more offensive style, with the defence being very involved in the offensive zone.

The season is still young...we've got the luxury of an unexpected very good start, and we've got teams in the NW division that seemed to have digressed and do not appear to be threats to our reign as NW division champs. So personally, I think we have the opportunity to work out a lot of the kinks right now (i.e., giving Edler time to adjust to the right side; distributing ice time more evenly, allowing Garrison the time to work into the system, etc., giving Tanev and Ballard more responsibility, etc.) without fear of being seeded anywhere less than third in the Western Conference.

The problems that we have on our back end are, as problems go, are good ones to have. We have 3/4 quarters of the shortened season to work these things out. On paper, our top 6 D are as good as any in the NHL...I'm certain they will gel over the next month.

Edited by disisdayear, 16 February 2013 - 04:41 PM.

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#95 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:33 PM

I'm always wondering, if Tanev is a great passer and position ally sound, why the Canucks don't play him with Edler for all the primary offensive shifts?

One player in our FOUR top four capable left side guys always has to play their off side.Edler and Ballard have both shown their actually pretty awkward at it. Hamhuis is so valuable where he is. Old News rang up some stats pre-season suggesting Garrison, who got great grades defensively started the majority of his shifts on the right side which is also his off side. Garrison should be the guy who moves over.

And we have two line options IMO

Edler Garrison or Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Bieksa Hamhuis Bieksa
Ballard Tanev Ballard Garrison

IMO I want to see how playing with a stud defensive guy would also free up Ballard? Tanev is one thing, Garrison makes the pairing 220 and 212 lbs including Ballards dynamic speed and a massive big shot bringing up the rear. It would be our most physically gifted tandem. I think that would allow us to see the true Ballard.


Disagree, this year and in the past he has shown he has it.

He did even at times in the prior few years.

¸Just look at tonight, he made a great play to setup the JS chance that injured Lehtonen, and stepped up on another chance and rung it off the crossbar.

He totally has the ability to be a puck mover.


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#96 Baggins

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:59 PM

He is also the consumate team player that would fall on his own sword rather than blame others, even a coaching staff who by anyone's account really have not given him any opportunity to show what he can do offensively here. With all due respect, he wants to play. What is he going to say?


Short memory? Ballard has been given opportunities on the pp the previous 2 seasons when Hamhuis and Edler injured. He had trouble holding the line and attempted pinches he had no hope of winning. Both resulting in odd man rushes against. That's why he was replaced by Rome when the other two were out. Ballard has been at his best when keeping his game very simple. When he doesn't he gets himself into trouble.

Btw, AV has rewarded Ballard and Tanev for their good play with increased ice time.
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#97 Baggins

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 06:14 PM

Gillis ,in his infinite wisdom,decided that Bieksa was more valuable to the team than Ehrhoff.


He is. He brings more with slightly lower production , and signed at a reasonable price.
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#98 Aladeen

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

Concerning our Dmen lately

I am thinking Garrison and Bieska should be eased in with less important minutes t the moment, if not only for them to get some confidence,or whatever it is they are lacking
I think Ballard and Tanev deserve the extra minutes
Edler has not been himself for sometime now

I just think, that having quality defencemen, You should reward the defence who Are playing well, and take the pressure off the ones who are not in order for them to find their game

Without having any stud defencemen, where everyone is above average, I dont believe You should name them 1st 2nd and 3 rd lines and stick with them regardless
When a forward is struggling or not performing, AV would say, we go with the players that give us the best chance to win

Now that the Canucks win streak is over. I would like to see some off our other Dmen move in to some games,depending if the prediction for that game may require talent or muscle,speed etc and insert the Appropriate Dman for the job. I see it as keeping the guys hungry and focused too and Our D sharp, if injuries should occur

Am I alone on my thoughts with this one?

oh god why the hell do I come on these boards after a loss? :picard: not just OP but those that think Bieksa should be a healthy scratch to you guys :picard: :picard: :picard: :picard: :picard: :picard:
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#99 Bananas

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:01 PM

This I agree with. Based on the way they are playing, Ballard and Tanev should have their icetime from 17mins/16mins respectively bumped up to 18-19 minutes each.

Edler continues to have inconsistency issues with his defensive zone coverage, and with Bieksa...well, you know what you're getting with him (high risk/high reward). Hamhuis has been his usual steady, quiet self, and Garrison is starting show that he can be relied on defensively (and he's been hung out to dry by Bieksa on more than a few occasion). I think Edler and Bieksa's icetime needs to be pared back with this time given to Ballard and Tanev.

For the past few seasons, the Canucks have been playing a five man attack game in the offensive zone with the d-men doing a lot of pinching. Obviously, this is high risk and high reward (which suits Bieksa's mindset). The Canucks of 2012-2013 so far has been playing a much more patient/conservative/defensive game which I believe explains partly as to the renaissance of Luongo. With Kesler coming back and some recent success the team has enjoyed offensively, I believe the Canucks are trying to transition back to their attack first mentality, which didn't serve them well last night (especially the bad pinches by Bieksa and Edler). I'll be interested to see if the Canucks go back to a more defensive mindset against the Blues, or try to move their game to a more offensive style, with the defence being very involved in the offensive zone.

The season is still young...we've got the luxury of an unexpected very good start, and we've got teams in the NW division that seemed to have digressed and do not appear to be threats to our reign as NW division champs. So personally, I think we have the opportunity to work out a lot of the kinks right now (i.e., giving Edler time to adjust to the right side; distributing ice time more evenly, allowing Garrison the time to work into the system, etc., giving Tanev and Ballard more responsibility, etc.) without fear of being seeded anywhere less than third in the Western Conference.

The problems that we have on our back end are, as problems go, are good ones to have. We have 3/4 quarters of the shortened season to work these things out. On paper, our top 6 D are as good as any in the NHL...I'm certain they will gel over the next month.


The only problem is that 3/4 of a shortened season really isn't that long. In reality, we are entering the stretch right now, where the games get tough, and the play-offs are on the horizon. It's mid-February, and any concern with the team is in fact warranted with only a month and a half left in the season.
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#100 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

I'm always wondering, if Tanev is a great passer and position ally sound, why the Canucks don't play him with Edler for all the primary offensive shifts?

One player in our FOUR top four capable left side guys always has to play their off side.Edler and Ballard have both shown their actually pretty awkward at it. Hamhuis is so valuable where he is. Old News rang up some stats pre-season suggesting Garrison, who got great grades defensively started the majority of his shifts on the right side which is also his off side. Garrison should be the guy who moves over.

And we have two line options IMO

Edler Garrison or Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Bieksa Hamhuis Bieksa
Ballard Tanev Ballard Garrison

IMO I want to see how playing with a stud defensive guy would also free up Ballard? Tanev is one thing, Garrison makes the pairing 220 and 212 lbs including Ballards dynamic speed and a massive big shot bringing up the rear. It would be our most physically gifted tandem. I think that would allow us to see the true Ballard.


If Garrison is indeed comfortable playing the right side.

Although honestly, I kind of like having our top 2 D-men playing together.

We just need to get the true 2nd pair (Ballard and Tanev) Playing the 2nd pair minutes.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing the lines switched up a bit.

Hamhuis - Tanev (The shutdown pair)
Ballard - Edler (Speed, Ballard is solid defensively, and Edler can be too, nice offensive pair with some defensive reliability too)
Garrison - Bieksa (Same 3rd pair)
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#101 CookieCrumbs

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:21 PM

I also think that Ballard - Tanev should be our first pairing for the time being.

Garrison has been responsible for multiple turnovers and blips that have directly ended in the back of our net. He has been playing absolutely fu*king horribly. There is no way to argue against that. If you do, you're just digging.
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#102 Bananas

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

no more Edler on the right side.

that is all.
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#103 ba;;isticsports

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:26 AM

oh god why the hell do I come on these boards after a loss? :picard: not just OP but those that think Bieksa should be a healthy scratch to you guys :picard: :picard: :picard: :picard: :picard: :picard:


Then do Us a favour Aladeen and follow Your own advice
These opinions weren't developed over 1 game !

This is a discussion board, Thats what the people on here have been doing
Seeing as You have No opinion of anythingmaybe it's,better that You dont come on?
What would be Your point in it?
Only to criticize people, who for fun discuss what might make the Team more competitive and stronger?
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#104 Bananas

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:30 AM

Then do Us a favour Aladeen and follow Your own advice
These opinions weren't developed over 1 game !

This is a discussion board, Thats what the people on here have been doing
Seeing as You have No opinion of anythingmaybe it's,better that You dont come on?
What would be Your point in it?
Only to criticize people, who for fun discuss what might make the Team more competitive and stronger?


While I do agree, you gotta tell me...

WTF is haPpenIng WiTH yOur sHIfT butToN/
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#105 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:18 AM

Short memory? Ballard has been given opportunities on the pp the previous 2 seasons when Hamhuis and Edler injured. He had trouble holding the line and attempted pinches he had no hope of winning. Both resulting in odd man rushes against. That's why he was replaced by Rome when the other two were out. Ballard has been at his best when keeping his game very simple. When he doesn't he gets himself into trouble.

Btw, AV has rewarded Ballard and Tanev for their good play with increased ice time.


Yes, clearly his whopping 9:25 of TOTAL PP ice time during the 2011-12 season and the 13:54 TOTAL PP ice time in the 2010-11 season is a massive opportunity for any player to show what he can do on the PP.

Give me a break. If Bieksa was given that short of a leash he would still be in the AHL.

And as for the AV "reward"......wow just over a minute more per game....don't go too crazy with the rewards there AV! Ballard has been one of our most consistent D this season. He should be playing at least 20 min a game the way he has played - especially when you factor in just how poorly the guys getting the big minutes have been playing.

If Bieksa and Hamhuis are this bad on the PP at all the things you say sucked about Ballard (which they are actually worse), then why hasn't Ballard earned another chance? Because the entitled NEVER lose their spots on this team no matter how crapty they play and the guys in the doghouse will never beat them out no matter how well they play.

Sounds like championship coaching!......or maybe not.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 17 February 2013 - 01:36 AM.

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#106 CRAZY_4_NAZZY

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:44 AM

IMO the whole defensive core has been horrible except for Ballard and Tanev. The only two that seem to be ready to play game after game. Time to give some ice time to Alby and Barker.

Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa, and Garrison dont seem to really care when they play. Merely just routine to them instead of investing any interest in the game.
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#107 Bananas

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:17 AM

Yes, clearly his whopping 9:25 of TOTAL PP ice time during the 2011-12 season and the 13:54 TOTAL PP ice time in the 2010-11 season is a massive opportunity for any player to show what he can do on the PP.

Give me a break. If Bieksa was given that short of a leash he would still be in the AHL.

And as for the AV "reward"......wow just over a minute more per game....don't go too crazy with the rewards there AV! Ballard has been one of our most consistent D this season. He should be playing at least 20 min a game the way he has played - especially when you factor in just how poorly the guys getting the big minutes have been playing.

If Bieksa and Hamhuis are this bad on the PP at all the things you say sucked about Ballard (which they are actually worse), then why hasn't Ballard earned another chance? Because the entitled NEVER lose their spots on this team no matter how crapty they play and the guys in the doghouse will never beat them out no matter how well they play.

Sounds like championship coaching!......or maybe not.


Pretty typical AV behavior. Nothing has changed. Two things are clear as day: 1) Our PP is struggling. 2) Ballard deserves some recognition from the coach.

You hit the nail on the head, though. The entitled never lose their spot to the players who earn it. ...except for Edler's spot being taken by Garrison, putting Edler on the wrong side of the ice for no apparent reason.


IMO the whole defensive core has been horrible except for Ballard and Tanev. The only two that seem to be ready to play game after game. Time to give some ice time to Alby and Barker.

Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa, and Garrison dont seem to really care when they play. Merely just routine to them instead of investing any interest in the game.


Those players are way too entitled to be scratched for scraps. But you are right (well, I'm ok with Hamhuis. He's been solid)... These guys need a fire lit under their asses. They are playing like crap because they don't care. Luongo and Schneider are making them look good.
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#108 Baggins

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:17 AM

Yes, clearly his whopping 9:25 of TOTAL PP ice time during the 2011-12 season and the 13:54 TOTAL PP ice time in the 2010-11 season is a massive opportunity for any player to show what he can do on the PP.

Give me a break. If Bieksa was given that short of a leash he would still be in the AHL.

And as for the AV "reward"......wow just over a minute more per game....don't go too crazy with the rewards there AV! Ballard has been one of our most consistent D this season. He should be playing at least 20 min a game the way he has played - especially when you factor in just how poorly the guys getting the big minutes have been playing.

If Bieksa and Hamhuis are this bad on the PP at all the things you say sucked about Ballard (which they are actually worse), then why hasn't Ballard earned another chance? Because the entitled NEVER lose their spots on this team no matter how crapty they play and the guys in the doghouse will never beat them out no matter how well they play.

Sounds like championship coaching!......or maybe not.


No d-man holds the line every time. Nor does any d-man win every pinch. None. Not even the elite d-men. Bieksa is one of our best at pinching. Ballard was only given two games on the pp his first season because he was going after pinches he had no hope of winning and couldn't hold the line. Losing on a pinch isn't a bad decission if you made it there and had the chance to hold it in. That's where Ballard was failing miserably. He was making poor decissions, chasing unwinable pinches consistantly, when he was given the opportunity. Which is why he was removed after just two games.

The problem you guys have with Bieksa is you watch for the mistakes and that's all you focus on, while completely ignoring the good plays. You're doing the reverse with Ballard. You see the good plays Ballard makes while turning a blind eye to his mistakes. They ALL make mistakes out there. Even elite d-men make mistakes (and none of ours our elite d-men) otherwise the Sedins, Crosby's and Ovechkins of the NHL wouldn't put up the points they do. Take a look at who on the team is drawing the tough minutes and who isn't. Ballard has averaged 17:04 of ice time per game this season. That's high for third pairing. The last bottom pair d-man to average 17 minutes a game was O'Brien, and it was because Mitchell and Bieksa missed a combined 61 games that season. That's Ballards reward for his good play this season.
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#109 riffraff

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:22 AM

I'd like to see vandy on tonight against a big St. Louis offense.

And if a regular d has to come out id scratch Garrison.

Edited by riffraff, 17 February 2013 - 08:24 AM.

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#110 Bananas

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:06 AM

No d-man holds the line every time. Nor does any d-man win every pinch. None. Not even the elite d-men. Bieksa is one of our best at pinching. Ballard was only given two games on the pp his first season because he was going after pinches he had no hope of winning and couldn't hold the line. Losing on a pinch isn't a bad decission if you made it there and had the chance to hold it in. That's where Ballard was failing miserably. He was making poor decissions, chasing unwinable pinches consistantly, when he was given the opportunity. Which is why he was removed after just two games.

The problem you guys have with Bieksa is you watch for the mistakes and that's all you focus on, while completely ignoring the good plays. You're doing the reverse with Ballard. You see the good plays Ballard makes while turning a blind eye to his mistakes. They ALL make mistakes out there. Even elite d-men make mistakes (and none of ours our elite d-men) otherwise the Sedins, Crosby's and Ovechkins of the NHL wouldn't put up the points they do. Take a look at who on the team is drawing the tough minutes and who isn't. Ballard has averaged 17:04 of ice time per game this season. That's high for third pairing. The last bottom pair d-man to average 17 minutes a game was O'Brien, and it was because Mitchell and Bieksa missed a combined 61 games that season. That's Ballards reward for his good play this season.


The coach could just say "go easy on the pinching", rather than say "nah f*** it Ballard, you suck."

Bieksa is a good pincher, and is pretty good at holding the line.

Edler on the other hand... ......
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#111 higgyfan

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:07 AM

That's going to be hard to do

I'd like to see vandy on tonight against a big St. Louis offense.

And if a regular d has to come out id scratch Garrison.


That will be hard to do, seeing as "Vandy" is playing in Chicago.

Fans act like players are doing it on purpose when they have bad games. The Bieksa love/hate is priceless (and predictable according to Nuck wins/losses).

A lot of good players are struggling throughout the league. The long off season and sudden high importance games are creating havoc for many.
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#112 disisdayear

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

The only problem is that 3/4 of a shortened season really isn't that long. In reality, we are entering the stretch right now, where the games get tough, and the play-offs are on the horizon. It's mid-February, and any concern with the team is in fact warranted with only a month and a half left in the season.


Certainly do not disagree with your comment on the sense of urgency we are dealing with, Joe, but in the context of having the luxury of playing in a weak division where it appears that we are the best team within it, we have a chance to fine tune our top six d-corps.

I also agree that Edler looks awkward on the right side and his weaknesses are being exposed by being on the right side, but I don't think you will find a better time for this "experiment" than at this time, without risking a third seed in the Western Conference. Concurrently, lets hope that Garrison can find his offensive stroke, Bieksa settles down, and Ballard/Tanev continue to play as well as they have.

As painful as this experiment may be at this time, I can see the fruits bearing out down the stretch and during the playoffs.

Edited by disisdayear, 17 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.

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#113 riffraff

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

That's going to be hard to do


That will be hard to do, seeing as "Vandy" is playing in Chicago.

Fans act like players are doing it on purpose when they have bad games. The Bieksa love/hate is priceless (and predictable according to Nuck wins/losses).

A lot of good players are struggling throughout the league. The long off season and sudden high importance games are creating havoc for many.


never said any of our d is having "bad" games.....if you've read any of my posts re bieksa you'll see im in full support of his play.

IMO opinion JaGarr could use a prod from the coaching staff....we're enough games in to see a bit more adjustment to have occurred....if anything its his lost puck battles that concerns me the most....hes playing small and a lot of that has to do with will/mindest/intensity.

Edited by riffraff, 17 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.

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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#114 higgyfan

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

never said any of our d is having "bad" games.....if you've read any of my posts re bieksa you'll see im in full support of his play.

IMO opinion JaGarr could use a prod from the coaching staff....we're enough games in to see a bit more adjustment to have occurred....if anything its his lost puck battles that concerns me the most....hes playing small and a lot of that has to do with will/mindest/intensity.


I was only directing the Vandy part to you. The other was just a general observation.

I don't really have issues with how Garrison has been playing. I'm concerned about Edler on the right side. Hopefully these issues will be ironed out before the end of March.
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#115 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

Btw, AV has rewarded Ballard and Tanev for their good play with increased ice time.


Didnt even realize that until reading this and checking.

That is a great sign for the d-corps as a whole.

It should really help the top 4 with playing so many heavy minutes.
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Henrik breaking records.Kes approving.


#116 Baggins

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:41 PM

The coach could just say "go easy on the pinching", rather than say "nah f*** it Ballard, you suck."

Bieksa is a good pincher, and is pretty good at holding the line.

Edler on the other hand... ......


What makes you think he didn't?
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#117 Gonz

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:47 PM

You guys are out to lunch. Ballard and tanev as top pairing now? Look where the points are coming from plus why so negative it's not like Canucks are having a better season. They playing tougher teams (non division) teams now, its expected they will have to work harder
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#118 Bananas

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:32 AM

Certainly do not disagree with your comment on the sense of urgency we are dealing with, Joe, but in the context of having the luxury of playing in a weak division where it appears that we are the best team within it, we have a chance to fine tune our top six d-corps.

I also agree that Edler looks awkward on the right side and his weaknesses are being exposed by being on the right side, but I don't think you will find a better time for this "experiment" than at this time, without risking a third seed in the Western Conference. Concurrently, lets hope that Garrison can find his offensive stroke, Bieksa settles down, and Ballard/Tanev continue to play as well as they have.

As painful as this experiment may be at this time, I can see the fruits bearing out down the stretch and during the playoffs.


Well put. For the most part, I can agree with this. My only beef is that I think Garrison should be experimenting on the right, not Edler, since Garrison is adjusting anyways. Also, if we expect Edler to develop into a #1, we can't be playing games like this with his development. In my opinion, it's a bad move. I think Keeping Edler on the left side would have garnered a higher reward.

What makes you think he didn't?


The itty bitty amount of PP time Ballard got to play, honestly. If AV wanted Ballard to adjust his game, he should have given him a chance. But unfortunately for Ballard, he's not a part of the obvious secret circle that revolves around this coach.
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Hey CDC! Remember this!?

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