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Ontario Soccer Association loses its mind


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#1 canuckbeliever

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

http://www.thestar.c..._standings.html

Seriously wtf. Do these people not think kids will keep score in there head? Most kids are competitive, and the soccer association needs to deal with it. That competitive drive is what makes them better and thats what produces future athletes for this great nation. Just another attempt by a bunch of moron parents who clearly do not know what the heck they are doing. These individuals think they are doing the world a favor by trying to eliminate competition, well guess what? Reality is competition works on so many levels and leads so many individuals to be better than they otherwise would be. It leads most of us to be better and for these people to try to eliminate that with kids is shortsighted and dumb.

Edited by canuckbeliever, 17 February 2013 - 11:56 AM.

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#2 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

Kids born in the past few years and in the future are going to be sooo soft from all this coddling...
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#3 Vansicle

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:06 PM

Somewhere a bunch of tree hugging hippies are celebrating with an impromptu drum circle.
In other cultures there are rights of passage. You have to kill a Gazelle or tie a rope to your leg and jump off a high tree or get a huge, extremely painful tattoo to become a man or woman. In western civilization, not only is this lacking, but parents do everything they can to shelter their children from the reality that the world is a hard place to be in.
I think people who take goals away from sport ought to stay as far away from it as is physically possible, as they have no understanding of what sport is; a macrocosm of real life.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#4 Dittohead

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:06 PM

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Raising future single moms and minimum wage earners, well done. It's all part of the plan. strive for mediocracy
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#5 Dazzle

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:16 PM

This is part of the reason why Canadian soccer is such a joke compared to all other countries in the world.

http://www.thestar.c..._standings.html

Seriously wtf. Do these people not think kids will keep score in there head? Most kids are competitive, and the soccer association needs to deal with it. That competitive drive is what makes them better and thats what produces future athletes for this great nation. Just another attempt by a bunch of moron parents who clearly do not know what the heck they are doing. These individuals think they are doing the world a favor by trying to eliminate competition, well guess what? Reality is competition works on so many levels and leads so many individuals to be better than they otherwise would be. It leads most of us to be better and for these people to try to eliminate that with kids is shortsighted and dumb.


I absolutely kept score in my head whenever I scored. It only made me score more for the rest of the game because I knew I did it earlier. Good confidence builder. But that didn't mean I was talking crap to people.
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#6 Hugemanskost

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:52 PM

This is part of the reason that I resigned my position coaching a traveling team here in Dawson Creek. Our soccer association has been doing this for 5 or 6 years. Total joke.

I see this in teaching, as well. We pass our students through to the next grade regardless of whether they meet the outcomes as set by the Province of BC. Our Board feels it's more important for kids to be with their peers than for them to meet minimal standards in academics. Our district doesn't fail kids until Grade 10 when they have had 10 years of schooling that really doesn't matter to them. Many kids don't care because they know they go on to the next level no matter what. We're setting this generation up to fail, big time!

We learn by failing and making mistakes and losing. This generation of bubble wrap kids is in for a really big lesson!
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#7 lmm

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

It is a little oxymoronic to have a Competitive league and not keep score. I doubt there are enough u-10 girls in Victoria to play competetive soccer, but the point of non-competetive league is to get kids active, and I support that. Yesterday my team of u-9 girls played a superfun parent/kids game because we had a bye in the schedule. No one kept score in that game either. In our league we do not keep score, but yes the girls know the score and whether we are winning or not. But our league is pretty uneven in skill, size, coaching ablility and desire. One team don't win and one probably won't lose all season and sometimes the scores get really out of hand, there is no need to keep track of the score or to award prizes. For me a successful season is one where most af the girls sign up next year and the parents ask me to return as coach.
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#8 Down by the River

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:07 PM

This is part of the reason why Canadian soccer is such a joke compared to all other countries in the world.



I absolutely kept score in my head whenever I scored. It only made me score more for the rest of the game because I knew I did it earlier. Good confidence builder. But that didn't mean I was talking crap to people.


From the article:

It’s part of a well-established, research-supported and holistic approach to player development, common in soccer-rich countries and endorsed by the sport’s brightest minds.


You guys really need to read the article before you skip ahead to judgement. Try being objective. Research supports this approach. It is done in Germany, the Netherlands, and England.

Canada has been taking this competition-first approach for years, and it has lead to a total of 1 world cup appearance, where we got blown off of the world stage.

I'm skeptical as well, but you cannot ignore the research just because it does not coincide with your opinion. If you believe that a child's ability to learn how to function as an adult in a competitive job market hinges on the score of a soccer game you really need to re-think how you weight certain life events.

This approach will at least teach children that, just because you win, does not mean you are successful. In Canada, teams will always win and lose; yet, our soccer players are still poor. This will at least teach children that winning doesn't make them winners. They need to develop skill, and with that winning on a larger stage will come.

Do you really think kids will stop competing just because score isn't officially recorded. Kids will still know whether they won or not, but at least the emphasis now becomes getting better.

Edited by Down by the River, 17 February 2013 - 01:14 PM.

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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#9 literaphile

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:23 PM

I think this is more about changing the attitudes of coaches and parents than it is about making kids "feel good". Too many coaches and parents have a "win at all costs" attitude, even for young kids playing in house leagues. When I was younger I was a referee, and even when reffing 9 year olds I had to deal with crazy parents and coaches.
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#10 Dazzle

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

From the article:



You guys really need to read the article before you skip ahead to judgement. Try being objective. Research supports this approach. It is done in Germany, the Netherlands, and England.

Canada has been taking this competition-first approach for years, and it has lead to a total of 1 world cup appearance, where we got blown off of the world stage.

I'm skeptical as well, but you cannot ignore the research just because it does not coincide with your opinion. If you believe that a child's ability to learn how to function as an adult in a competitive job market hinges on the score of a soccer game you really need to re-think how you weight certain life events.

This approach will at least teach children that, just because you win, does not mean you are successful. In Canada, teams will always win and lose; yet, our soccer players are still poor. This will at least teach children that winning doesn't make them winners. They need to develop skill, and with that winning on a larger stage will come.

Do you really think kids will stop competing just because score isn't officially recorded. Kids will still know whether they won or not, but at least the emphasis now becomes getting better.


I still don't agree with it (but who am I to say? I am arguing against some very very qualified people).

If a person regresses in the face of competition, that person was not going to succeed anyway in the real world UNLESS he/she changes his/her attitudes.

This coincides with what reality is, outside school fields filled with green grass. Everyone is going to win and lose at some point in their life - and then there are times when you will keep losing over and over.

I should say that I absolutely agree that soccer is JUST a game and someone should not alter their personal/moral beliefs in order to win a game (i.e. dirty plays). Sportsmanship should be instilled too.

But it's just a lazy argument that individual success could be hindered as a result of losing. If someone is so worried about what a score does to his or her life, that person should either work harder to win or simply play the sport recreationally.

Also, this seems like a cop-out for the adults: Maybe the adults should grow some balls and treat kids as kids. They seem to be more worried about the score than the kids - parents/coaches included. Maybe we give them developmental classes on how to be a proper parent and not to be a douche at games?

I should say that I like the idea of providing more practice, with more volunteer coaches to build fundimental skills.

Edited by Dazzle, 17 February 2013 - 01:44 PM.

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#11 Dazzle

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

I think this is more about changing the attitudes of coaches and parents than it is about making kids "feel good". Too many coaches and parents have a "win at all costs" attitude, even for young kids playing in house leagues. When I was younger I was a referee, and even when reffing 9 year olds I had to deal with crazy parents and coaches.


I see your point but it is a lazy cop-out.

Suddenly, adults have no real need to be responsible for their actions? It's all because of the score, that's why they're idiots - isn't it?

Excuses after excuses.
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#12 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

I think this is more about changing the attitudes of coaches and parents than it is about making kids "feel good". Too many coaches and parents have a "win at all costs" attitude, even for young kids playing in house leagues. When I was younger I was a referee, and even when reffing 9 year olds I had to deal with crazy parents and coaches.

It has been ever thus.

Back in the day I was playing Midget rep and we were in the finals against a team that featured future NHLer Gene Carr (son of NHL Red Carr) who was a terrific player. He took unbelievable abuse from opposing team parents. In the best of three final we were up by a goal in the third period (and this would be the first time in years we had a chance to win our region because of Gene's stellar play). Carr was easily the best player on the ice and our goalie was stoning him time after time.

Midway through the third Carr danced our captain and went in all alone but was stopped again. From the stands came the bellow from the father of our captain - "Bobby, don't let the ************** *******, drop him." So Bobby dropped him with a punch - got 5 and game and Carr scored two goals on the PP to win the series.

I learned from that. When I was coaching Midget rep many years ago, I had a written Code of Conduct for players and parents - long before it was common practise. I had meeting with all parents and made it clear that any abuse directed towards players on either team would result in their son being cut from the team. And I only had to cut one player before the message got through. Subsequently the father apologized and agreed to voluntarily ban himself from the rink for the rest of the season and I reinstated the player.

Or like this idiot hockey dad in Winnipeg. Video at the link - WARNING profanity.

Hockey dad's outburst sparks condemnation



An outburst by a parent at a Winnipeg hockey game Monday night has hockey associations wondering whether behaviour courses should be mandatory for parents as well as for coaches and officials.


The man, Jason Boyd, was caught on video yelling at and threatening another parent — who asked him to stop calling his son a midget — during a game Monday night at Southdale Community Centre between St. Andrews and Southdale.


The players were 15 years old. Boyd did not comment on Thursday but his family said his outburst was in the heat of the moment and that he has since apologized.


But the parent who was on the receiving end of the outburst, Chuck Kitson, said he has not received an apology. "There was no apology to the players, to the referees, or to any of the other parents that he insulted," said Kitson.


Peter Woods, executive director of Hockey Manitoba, said he has seen video of the confrontation.


"It's a bit disturbing that people have to treat each other in that particular manner," he said, adding Hockey Manitoba is considering requiring hockey parents to take the same online Respect in Sport course that coaches, managers and hockey officials are required to take.


Board members of the Lord Selkirk Minor Hockey Association, for whom Boyd's son plays, were to meet Thursday night to discuss various options regarding the incident.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...t-outburst.html



A Manitoba hockey dad says he's sorry for an explosive outburst during a minor-league hockey game in Winnipeg and said he accepts that he will not be allowed to watch his son’s hockey games as a result.


In a YouTube video that went viral Thursday, hockey-dad Jason Boyd can be seen yelling insults at one of his son's hockey opponents.


The teen’s father, Chuck Kitson, steps in to defend his son by asking Boyd not to insult him.


The confrontation then escalates and Boyd threatens Kitson.


“His remarks were uncalled for – completely irresponsible, and for an adult to go on like that, at a kid’s game, is unimaginable,” said Kitson.


The incident happened at a minor-league hockey game on Monday night at the Southdale Community Centre.


“I was intimidated. I was scared. His behavior was as violent and threatening as I’ve seen in any hockey game,” said Kitson.


Later in the game, Kitson’s son Emerson broke his arm. Kitson said Boyd’s outbursts continued even after that.


“He celebrates again. It was hard to watch. These are kids on the ice,” said Kitson.


Kitson's son said he viewed Boyd as a bully but wasn't going to let the incident get to him.


Now, the Lord Selkirk Minor Hockey Association wants Boyd banned from all of its playoff games.


The decision still has to be approved by Hockey Winnipeg, but if upheld, Boyd won't be allowed near the ice for the remainder of the season.


Hockey dad issues statement

Boyd issued a statement on Friday, saying he wanted to “sincerely apologize to Chuck Kitson and his 15-year-old son” for his behaviour at the game.


He said in the written statement, “I cannot and will not try to justify or excuse my actions. I had a significant lapse in judgment and for that I am truly sorry.”


He said he accepted the league’s suspension and supported their efforts to reduce parent confrontations at games.


He added he would make an in-person apology to Kitson and his son.


Boyd's family has said the outburst was in the heat of the moment and the ensuing online backlash is unfair.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...d-winnipeg.html

Boyd is a moron - there is no excuse.

Here is the video - Warning profanity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVVlVfOK2gY

And then there was the idiot hockey coach who tripped an opposing player after the game at UBC and who has been convicted of assault His sentencing is to come on Feb 26, 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st5YOXhnACg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OETfWGtoLiM

A Vancouver minor hockey coach caught on video tripping two teenage players on the ice has pleaded guilty to assault.


Martin Tremblay entered the guilty plea through his lawyer Bob Bellows in court on Tuesday, reported the Richmond Review.


Tremblay, who was coaching the UBC Hornets, was lining up to shake hands with the opposing team at the end of a gold-medal game in June. Video which was later posted on YouTube shows Tremblay swinging his foot out and knocking down two players who fall to the ice.


One was unhurt, while the other -- a 13-year-old -- broke his wrist, reported CTV News.


Tremblay's team had won the game against the Richmond Steel.


Bellows told CTV his client feels "shame and remorse" and has written a letter of apology to the teens. Bellows said he is seeking a sentence with no jail time.

http://www.huffingto..._n_2169447.html
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#13 pwnstar

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

Kids born in the past few years and in the future are going to be sooo soft from all this coddling...


Yah, they don't raise em like they used to
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#14 Bitter Melon

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:47 PM

No surprises this is coming from a soccer organization.

Seriously though, we live in the 'Every child is a perfect, special snowflake' generation. The one where everyone gets a trophy and effort is the only thing that counts. These kids are in for a rude awakening when they grow up.
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#15 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

I think this is more about changing the attitudes of coaches and parents than it is about making kids "feel good". Too many coaches and parents have a "win at all costs" attitude, even for young kids playing in house leagues. When I was younger I was a referee, and even when reffing 9 year olds I had to deal with crazy parents and coaches.


I remember when I was 13 or 14 I played a game against a U-12 All-Star team in a Spring League tournament. During that game I laid out one of the opposing teams players, it was completely legal, but I had a few inches and at least 20 or 30 pounds on him. He was shook up for a few minutes, but he returned to the game eventually.
After the game walking to our dressing room this kids dad comes down from the stands and starts yelling at me about how he was going to beat me up when I left because of me hitting his kid like that, he was absolutely livid. Luckily there was enough people around to grab him and calm him down, but I still found it really sad that a parent could get so aggressive towards a kid as a result of a clean play in a game.

Edited by Jägermeister, 17 February 2013 - 02:53 PM.

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#16 Down by the River

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

No surprises this is coming from a soccer organization.

Seriously though, we live in the 'Every child is a perfect, special snowflake' generation. The one where everyone gets a trophy and effort is the only thing that counts. These kids are in for a rude awakening when they grow up.


You're not getting it. This decision has nothing to do with coddling. Research indicates that this approach makes better soccer players. In actuality, this model improves Canada's chance of winning on the world stage.

If they did this to hockey, I wouldn't like it. But then again, how can you argue when there is research to support the position? It is your emotionally-driven personal belief versus (apparently) objective research and validated by the international success of the countries that have adopted such an approach.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#17 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:57 PM

Yah, they don't raise em like they used to

Yup back in the day I walked miles uphill both ways to the rink in raging blizzards We were tough.
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#18 GLASSJAW

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

ya guys, if you want success on the global stage... copy what England and the Netherlands have done.
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#19 Duodenum

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:19 PM

ya guys, if you want success on the global stage... copy what England and the Netherlands have done.


Along with Germany and Brazil..
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#20 lmm

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

\how many of you or your kids played competitive hockey or soccer at 9 years old?

feel free to post pics of those trophies you won.

Edited by lmm, 17 February 2013 - 03:45 PM.

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#21 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:40 PM

\how many of you or your kids played competitive hockey or soccer at 9 years old?


Competitive hockey, swimming, water polo, and lacrosse.
Felt great to win and losing made me want to work harder so I won next time.
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#22 Electro Rock

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

If you're not first, you're last!
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#23 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

There is no end in sight for political correctness.
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#24 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:57 PM

\how many of you or your kids played competitive hockey or soccer at 9 years old?

I played competitive soccer at that age in Victoria with some excellent players.

One of my teammates, Bob Bolitho went on to be a Canadian national team player (37 caps in seven years for Canada), won a NASL Soccer Bowl with the Whitecaps and made Everton Football Club in the English Premier League before returning home to play for the Whitecaps.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#25 etsen3

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:23 PM

What a joke and an insult to the kids. They can handle it. Yeah losing sucks and some of them might get their "feelings hurt" but disappointment is part of life, especially in a competitive environment like sports. Sport are supposed to teach you lessons about how to handle both winning and losing.
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#26 Down by the River

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

What a joke and an insult to the kids. They can handle it. Yeah losing sucks and some of them might get their "feelings hurt" but disappointment is part of life, especially in a competitive environment like sports. Sport are supposed to teach you lessons about how to handle both winning and losing.


Again, the change that was made was not meant to 'protect the children'. The change was made because research supported that shift and because countries that followed this model have had international success.

I am not supporting the political corectness BS. I began playing soccer at age 4 and I loved to win and I hated to lose, but most importantly I loved competing. In grade eight I played for my school's senior (Grade 11-12) soccer team. I have won and lost provincial championships. I am glad they kept score. I remember my goals and I remember my mistakes.

That said, obviously the Canadian system has not translated to international success (8-1 against freaking Honduras!!?). Why not follow the model of countries that have had international success?
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

Down by the River - Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.


#27 lmm

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:19 PM

well I just looked up timbiits Atom 4 v4 ... no score clock etc
and as you recall Sid came through that program, sooo I guess it must be a terrible idea
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#28 etsen3

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:39 PM

well I just looked up timbiits Atom 4 v4 ... no score clock etc
and as you recall Sid came through that program, sooo I guess it must be a terrible idea


Timbits isn't exactly a hockey development program, it's just for fun. Just because Crosby played Timbits when he was maybe 3 or 4 years old, just starting out on the basics of the game, doesn't mean it's a good development program. In fact it's not even a development program, it's just meant to have fun while teaching kids the basic skills of the game. Remember this guy gave his first newspaper interview at 7, so by that time he was already likely playing competitive hockey. You can't say that Timbits hockey is what turned Crosby into world's best hockey player.
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#29 thedestroyerofworlds

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:22 PM

At the lower levels, it isn't about winning or losing. I read in Soccernomics, Barcalona employs a system in there academy that players play all positions, and wins and losses are not that important. One game a player will play striker, then the next game midfeilder, then the next game defense. The point is learning the game, the tactics, skills so that when they are older, they can use them to dominate. And IT WORKS. Barca is the best in the world, with a bunch of academy players playing for them. Messi has been with the club since he was 13.
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#30 Down by the River

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

At the lower levels, it isn't about winning or losing. I read in Soccernomics, Barcalona employs a system in there academy that players play all positions, and wins and losses are not that important. One game a player will play striker, then the next game midfeilder, then the next game defense. The point is learning the game, the tactics, skills so that when they are older, they can use them to dominate. And IT WORKS. Barca is the best in the world, with a bunch of academy players playing for them. Messi has been with the club since he was 13.


Lionel Messi is coddled and won't learn how to compete in the real world. :frantic: :frantic: :frantic: :frantic:
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

Down by the River - Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.





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