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The Pathetic NW Division


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#1 Mustapha

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:34 AM

I know there are a ton of posters on this forum who assess and nitpick the Canucks' play on a regular basis, but I think it's really hard to truly evaluate the Canucks when they don't really play any big games until the playoffs start.

I mean, look at the other teams vying for the division lead. They would need to take the division just to make the playoffs, because chances are they won't make it with their end of season point totals. Colorado was the last team to make it to the playoffs, three seasons ago. Since then, it's only been Vancouver.

The Canucks are leaps and bounds ahead of these other teams, and as long as they continue to beat them, they will have at least 3rd place locked down.

Calgary - Can only beat teams that have horrible goaltending (Yeah YOU Richard Bachman)
They aren't that good when healthy, but injuries have made them even worse.

Minnesota - The players' names on the back say Heatley, Parise, and Suter....but they sure don't play like them most nights.

Edmonton - Will be great one day, if they get an actual coach. They are a Marc Crawford away from big trouble. Right now, they are still basically .500

Colorado - The best of the bunch, but between injuries and a contract dispute, they are handcuffed from reaching their full potential.

Sometimes I wonder how the Canucks would play if they had to compete against Central or Pacific opponents for a division title. The Central Division specifically, that is a nasty group of teams (aside from Columbus)
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What are you talking about? The Flames are one of the teams that gets good value contracts


#2 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:36 AM

I believe the biggest problem is the fact that the NW division opponents have shotty goaltending and weak offences. The Canucks rarely face a quality goaltender - sure some backups have had great games against us, but we struggled in the playoffs against elite goaltenders like Thomas and Quick because we rarely face off against these type of guys. That being said, the same can be said for other teams facing the Canucks.

I believe our defence really gets exposed outside of the division. Despite some good offensive stars, the Northwest are pretty poorly coached teams outside of Vancouver, with no big names behind the benches anymore, so they don't know how to dissect our defence. However, when we play well-coached teams like St. Louis, Chicago, Los Angeles and Boston their star coaches rip us apart, especially over a 7 game series where our weaknesses are well highlighted.
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#3 Canuck or Die

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:04 AM

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Once upon a time the central division was garbage with Detroit constantly coming out on top.
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#4 deebow420

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:24 AM

that makes no sene.. we dont just play the flames & oilers 40 games each.. last year we were 22-11-7 combined against the central and pacific divisions... and if you think the east has better teams in their divisions... im sure if i go check we probably had a winning record against each of those as well.. i know for sure we dominated the northeast in the regiular season last year but dont remember the rest of the east...

Edited by deebow420, 18 February 2013 - 08:25 AM.

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#5 WHL rocks

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:42 AM

I wonder how Columbus would do if they were in the NW. Pbbly make the playoffs.
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#6 WHL rocks

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

Click to see records vs all divisions.
http://canucks.nhl.c...112012&type=XVW

vs CEN 11-6-3
vs NW 18-5-1
vs PAC 11-5-4
vs ATL 2-2-1
vs NE 6-2-0
vs SE 3-2-0

Edited by WHL rocks, 18 February 2013 - 08:52 AM.

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#7 D-Money

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:52 AM

Even though their teams weren't good enough to make the playoffs, Backstrom and Kiprusoff have been elite goaltenders for years.

Look at the SE. Other than Cam Ward, who do those teams have for goaltenders?
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#8 Heretic

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:58 AM

Last season, there were 2 divisions that were worse than the Pacific.
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#9 deebow420

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:29 AM

I wonder how Columbus would do if they were in the NW. Pbbly make the playoffs.

columbus hasnt beat a team from the NW yet this year.. last year they went 9-11 against the north west.. smells like a troll who dont know kaka about dodo
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#10 Aladeen

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

Amazing thread will add to favorites to read it again and again
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#11 WHL rocks

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:45 AM

columbus hasnt beat a team from the NW yet this year.. last year they went 9-11 against the north west.. smells like a troll who dont know kaka about dodo


First of all if you had any knowledge about hockey and Columbus you would know it was sarcasm when I said CBJ would pbbly make the playoffs.

Second, They were NOT 9-11 against the NW you goof. They were 9-9-2.

smells like a troll? says the guy with false facts and 3 posts coming here to pick a fight.

At least get your facts right you clown. I posted the link only 4 posts up, right below the one you quoted. It's not like you had to search for the info. moron.

Edited by WHL rocks, 18 February 2013 - 10:12 AM.

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#12 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:07 AM

The whole weak division argument is just that, weak. We only play 4 MORE GAMES in our own division than we do outside of it. The benefit of playing in a weaker division is minor at best. I have done the math the if you removed all of the Canucks games against the NW for the season and averaged out their remaining win percentage for the season, the Canucks are still 1st in the league.

On top of that there are some top teams whom actually struggle against the NW. Boston, NJ, Chicago, LA, Wash, Montreal all had losing records to the NW last year, and there were a good 4 more that were barely over .500.
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#13 PLOGUE

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

First of all if you had any knowledge about hockey and Columbus you would know it was sarcasm when I said CBJ would pbbly make the playoffs.

Second, They were NOT 9-11 against the NW you goof. They were 9-9-2.

smells like a troll? says the guy with false facts and 3 posts coming here to pick a fight.

At least get your facts right you clown. I posted the link only 4 posts up, right below the one you quoted. It's not like you had to search for the info. moron.


Someone needs a tampon. It's that time of month apparently.

On to the topic. Yes the NW is crap...now. It used to be a fairly tough division when col was a powerhouse, Calgary was dangerous with a younger iginla and kipper, and the wild were an amazing lockdown team with their trap style of play. Central division was the crap division at one point with no one even close to Detroit.

I agree that the nucks seem to get a false sense of security after playing within the division and need a couple of games like the last two to wake up. I would love to see Edmonton live up to their potential and the wild to get to where they are building. It would be nice to have hard fought games all year.
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QUOTE (ephysdad @ Oct 26 2008, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or then of course there's always the Ferry

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#14 D-Money

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

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Maybe the other NW division teams can't make the playoffs because they're stuck having to play the Canucks so often!
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#15 KoreanHockeyFan

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

In about 5 years time, the Northwest division is going to go back to the competitiveness of the early-mid 2000's.
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#16 Steve Carell

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

The whole weak division argument is just that, weak. We only play 4 MORE GAMES in our own division than we do outside of it. The benefit of playing in a weaker division is minor at best. I have done the math the if you removed all of the Canucks games against the NW for the season and averaged out their remaining win percentage for the season, the Canucks are still 1st in the league.

On top of that there are some top teams whom actually struggle against the NW. Boston, NJ, Chicago, LA, Wash, Montreal all had losing records to the NW last year, and there were a good 4 more that were barely over .500.


Bingo.

While it does benefit us to some extent, I kind of think the argument is BS...
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#17 disisdayear

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

The whole weak division argument is just that, weak. We only play 4 MORE GAMES in our own division than we do outside of it. The benefit of playing in a weaker division is minor at best. I have done the math the if you removed all of the Canucks games against the NW for the season and averaged out their remaining win percentage for the season, the Canucks are still 1st in the league.

On top of that there are some top teams whom actually struggle against the NW. Boston, NJ, Chicago, LA, Wash, Montreal all had losing records to the NW last year, and there were a good 4 more that were barely over .500.


Would agree, Major Penalty. The argument that can be made for the "weak" NW division is not so much the games that are played against intra-divisional rivals, as opposed to how well (or poorly) the other NW teams fare against other western conference teams.

The Canucks record outside the division has historically been pretty good...a little less success than within the division, but better than other NW division teams. So, coupled with recent history of dominant winning pct. (which doesn't necessarily mean dominant play) vs. NW rivals, we have been able to comfortably win the division.

Now the trick for this season is, is to be firing on all cylinders as we head down the home stretch, with a healthy team and momentum going into the playoffs.

BTW, 5minutes...great handle. I always thought that if you're going to the sin bin, you should take someone with you.
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#18 chrisbanks

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

this is almost the same post i made a few days back about how easy our schedual is this year and lack of competition could hurt us befor this last 2 games i said these 6 games are probably the hardest stretch we will see all year and ,so far we are 0-1-1 .March is gross only 4 games vs teams currently situated in the playoffs we dont have another tough stretch of games until the end of april where i think we have another tough 6 games ... and it does matter every year in all sports people say "you are what your record says you are" but that is never the case .. broncos this year had the easiest schedual in the NFL they rolled hard to go one and done in the playoffs... last year canucks squeeked by bad teams down the stretch into the playoffs got smoked by LA . and in this shortend season having a terrible divison does matter as the % of games played vs your divison is far greater than any other season. and people keep bring up stats from last year.... that was last year we got knocked out first round its over... its this year now and we are under .500 outside our division but im sure that will improve as in march we play columbus 3 times and LA 2 times.
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#19 Noheart

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:36 PM

We won't be playing teams from the NW in the playoffs so I guess we will judge this team then.

Otherwise this argument is a waste of time.

If you can figure out a way to manipulate the continent like putty, great!

We can move Vancouver east of winnipeg and play in the central.

then we will never have to be bothered by this ridicules argument again.

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#20 pwnstar

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

It sucks because we don't play any of the true eastern contenders this season.
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#21 Mustapha

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

I guess a few of you didn't understand my post.

My point was this: Unless the Canucks get overtaken by a NW division team, they have an automatic playoff spot.

The chances of that happening are not likely, so what is this team playing for? How will they be able to elevate their play come playoff time? Where's the adversity? I guess it's a 48 game preseason for the Canucks.

The other divisions in the West have at least 2 teams that battle for the division, that's healthy for competition. The Canucks don't have that, and it will work against them later on.
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What are you talking about? The Flames are one of the teams that gets good value contracts


#22 Aladeen

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

I guess a few of you didn't understand my post.

My point was this: Unless the Canucks get overtaken by a NW division team, they have an automatic playoff spot.

The chances of that happening are not likely, so what is this team playing for? How will they be able to elevate their play come playoff time? Where's the adversity? I guess it's a 48 game preseason for the Canucks.

The other divisions in the West have at least 2 teams that battle for the division, that's healthy for competition. The Canucks don't have that, and it will work against them later on.

Or on the other hand, make the playoffs and everyteam that makes the playoffs has a chance to go on a roll then and win the cup. Thats what makes hockey the most exciting sport. Have the best team on paper? if they're not clicking come playoff time = no cup.
We have seen hot goalies single-handedly drag their teams to cups and we have seen bad goaltending destroy powerhouse teams chances of winning as well.

So really none of what you says makes sense or matters since they play all the western teams, it takes a team coming together at the right time, being healthy and perhaps some luck to win the cup. All Gillis and Co can do is ice a team that makes it to the playoffs to compete for a cup year after year and that is the best chance of success. We can't worry that the rest of the division isn't up to making the playoffs, that just means (which I don't buy that argument anyways) we get another chance at the real season.
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#23 Quoted

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:51 PM

NW and SE are both struggling so far.
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#24 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

You should have been here a week or so ago when we were 6-0.

Oh, no we're big enough...

Oh no, we're not needing any trades...

Oh no, all is good with Lou...

Oh no, we have the best defence in the league...

:lol:

Well we are good, and a VERY talented team. But most certainly we still need to improve and our road is easier playing so many games in a weak division.

We are too deep on left wing. Too deep on left D. Lets call it very good in goal. That's opportunity to pull off a trade that helps in my books!

Whichever left side D has to slot into our right side has been uncomfortable. We also need a puck moving right handed shot. Both needs could be accomplished in one right D acquired from that depth if its right.

We need at least another big fast forward (plus Booth) who plays hard! Put it this way; if Burrows or even Hansen did exactly what they do but was 210 lbs we would have Dustin Brown, possibly a play off MVP, and likely a Cup! You debate whether its a centre, or RW. To me either would do (and the centre could play wing as required) enough to bust match ups, would be available at the deadline, and allow our talent to surface!



Someone needs a tampon. It's that time of month apparently.

On to the topic. Yes the NW is crap...now. It used to be a fairly tough division when col was a powerhouse, Calgary was dangerous with a younger iginla and kipper, and the wild were an amazing lockdown team with their trap style of play. Central division was the crap division at one point with no one even close to Detroit.

I agree that the nucks seem to get a false sense of security after playing within the division and need a couple of games like the last two to wake up. I would love to see Edmonton live up to their potential and the wild to get to where they are building. It would be nice to have hard fought games all year.


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#25 higgyfan

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:01 PM

It works in the Canucks favour this year. They have time to get there game up to par, but still win enough games to make the playoffs. It's like having a super long preseason.
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#26 Down by the River

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

The whole weak division argument is just that, weak. We only play 4 MORE GAMES in our own division than we do outside of it. The benefit of playing in a weaker division is minor at best. I have done the math the if you removed all of the Canucks games against the NW for the season and averaged out their remaining win percentage for the season, the Canucks are still 1st in the league.

On top of that there are some top teams whom actually struggle against the NW. Boston, NJ, Chicago, LA, Wash, Montreal all had losing records to the NW last year, and there were a good 4 more that were barely over .500.


If true, good post and great research.
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#27 Clinch16

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:24 PM

this is almost the same post i made a few days back about how easy our schedual is this year and lack of competition could hurt us befor this last 2 games i said these 6 games are probably the hardest stretch we will see all year and ,so far we are 0-1-1 .March is gross only 4 games vs teams currently situated in the playoffs we dont have another tough stretch of games until the end of april where i think we have another tough 6 games ... and it does matter every year in all sports people say "you are what your record says you are" but that is never the case .. broncos this year had the easiest schedual in the NFL they rolled hard to go one and done in the playoffs... last year canucks squeeked by bad teams down the stretch into the playoffs got smoked by LA . and in this shortend season having a terrible divison does matter as the % of games played vs your divison is far greater than any other season. and people keep bring up stats from last year.... that was last year we got knocked out first round its over... its this year now and we are under .500 outside our division but im sure that will improve as in march we play columbus 3 times and LA 2 times.


Sorry but don't agree. Could it be possible that part of the reason the NW division "seems" so bad is that they all have to play the Canucks so many times? Those who play the "you're in the NW so your points are inflated" card forget that they still have to win the games and judging by the success (or lack thereof) of some of the eastern teams (back in the day when east played west) within the NW, I don't buy that arguement at all. But you are correct in that there's no point scratching heads over year old stats - this shortened year is a whole new ball game.

Just thought I'd flag your comment above - the Canucks just squeaked by into the playoffs? If I remember correctly, with Daniel out and a couple of new names on the roster, AV fiddled with the line up right to the last game and still 'squeaked' the Prez Trophy. Got smoked by LA? Hardly. The Canucks were outscored 12-8 in 5 games. That's not really the definition of smoked. That's boring defensive style playoff hockey and a hot goalie to contend with and not much else.
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#28 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

we need to get playoff built when were playing teams of monsters.

2 more beasts Gillis.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#29 Hockey Fever

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:28 PM

I believe the biggest problem is the fact that the NW division opponents have shotty goaltending and weak offences. The Canucks rarely face a quality goaltender - sure some backups have had great games against us, but we struggled in the playoffs against elite goaltenders like Thomas and Quick because we rarely face off against these type of guys. That being said, the same can be said for other teams facing the Canucks.

I believe our defence really gets exposed outside of the division. Despite some good offensive stars, the Northwest are pretty poorly coached teams outside of Vancouver, with no big names behind the benches anymore, so they don't know how to dissect our defence. However, when we play well-coached teams like St. Louis, Chicago, Los Angeles and Boston their star coaches rip us apart, especially over a 7 game series where our weaknesses are well highlighted.


This is the smartest thing i've heard on hear in ages !
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#30 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

I do not disagree with your statement as a whole.

But I am in the camp that believes we need to do more to be a serious play off threat, not just good enough to win the NW division.

When we went to the final;

We had (started) with Samuelsson instead of Booth. Well one reason we lost, and the real reason Mikael was let go is he was injury prone. But where he does not have Booth's athleticism, he was his equal in size, added substantial moxy and he was a RW which kept our dearth of talented left side speedsters free to get ice time. Net; I'm happy with Booth if we replace the RW or Kass stands back up to his play a few weeks ago.

We had Erhoff instead of Garrison. There may be a way to make Garrison as valuable. He is 220 lbs and can move bodies in front of the net which was an important question when we lost to Boston. But there is no doubt Erhoff added flight to our game. Edler can score his points, but does not have the same ability to help us get the puck moving up ice. We still are, possibly, the top D in the league defensively (combined with goaltending). But missing Erhoff we are nowhere near the high flying top offensive, punishing PP team we were.

Net of the last paragraph; trade one of Hamhuis, Garrison, Edler or Ballard for a puck moving, right handed shot, right D. Gotta chuck in a goalie to get him; so be it! We also die the instant Bieksa, our only right handed shot of substance, gets hurt. We have to get better at moving the puck from the back end!

We had Torres and Manny instead of Schroeder and Higgins. Guys, Higgins may be a better player than Torres, but he is nowhere near as valuable. Torres would not just rock Thornton, he was big enough he could render him ineffective. We need that size and ability to match up back in our line up. I'm at odd's as to how, or whether we should replace Manny as Schroeder does have value.

We had Tambelini instead of Higgins. Well, lets call this one a win and a hint as to where Higgins should really be playing if we scored another big forward! Ah, we would be lucky to have a guy like Higgins be able to step up from the 4th line but thats the position we need to be in!

Net of the whole conversation?

Lou + Ballard for Mike Green and Mo Jo (as much O as Schroeder + 20 lbs and 5 inches and more potential). U guys debate whether we get a 1st; I want to win now. Mike Green instantly makes us that high flying team which scores, his value is lower, perhaps he's likely expendable with Carlson and Orlov. Add a big RW at the deadline covered by the cap hit of whoever (inevitably) is hurt.

Or on the other hand, make the playoffs and everyteam that makes the playoffs has a chance to go on a roll then and win the cup. Thats what makes hockey the most exciting sport. Have the best team on paper? if they're not clicking come playoff time = no cup.
We have seen hot goalies single-handedly drag their teams to cups and we have seen bad goaltending destroy powerhouse teams chances of winning as well.

So really none of what you says makes sense or matters since they play all the western teams, it takes a team coming together at the right time, being healthy and perhaps some luck to win the cup. All Gillis and Co can do is ice a team that makes it to the playoffs to compete for a cup year after year and that is the best chance of success. We can't worry that the rest of the division isn't up to making the playoffs, that just means (which I don't buy that argument anyways) we get another chance at the real season.


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