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Where oh where is Kassian gone


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#31 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

WHL Rocks put it best. We have every reason to discuss Kassian's play because it's a very important, and currently undetermined factor when considering deadline deals and what we need for a cup run; and our needs concerning a Luongo (or Schneider?) trade and what we need moving forwards.

Like I said earlier, I'm not going to rip on the guy because he conveniently played bad on two losses, and good the rest of the season. His role has undergone chaos this year, and he just needs to point himself in a direction and run.

Sadly, Kassian's role is given to him by the coaching staff, so instead of developing the way Kassian needs to develop, he's going to in the way that AV wants him to instead. THIS is why AV ruins prospects. Not because of ice time.


I'm not saying don't discuss it if its what you wanna do. But withen the first 2 pages of Canucks talk there's

1 Hamhuis hate
3 Kassian ripping threads
2 Jason Garrison ripping thread
2 Edler ripping threads
A Raymond ripping thread (which isn't even deserved this year (1 praising thread)
And 2 burrows shoot out move hating threads

Why not just start a Canucks current hate/scapegoat thread

On top of a couple threads though the forum that are basically 4th line hating threads

Edited by WonderTwinPowers, 18 February 2013 - 11:17 AM.

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#32 elvis15

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:33 AM

I disagree. I want a Kassian thread to talk about his play. Both other threads were locked for good reason but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't talk about Kassian's play.
...

Well put. elvis15's wannabe mod mantra is getting real old.
...

Here's my ask of you then: why is this thread different from the other two last night? Why is it different from any of the Kassian threads before those that have been created to discuss him and his play? What was good enough reason for the one thread I mentioned was locked as redundant that isn't good enough reason for this one?

I did a quick search for threads in Canucks Talk with Kassian in the title, and this is what came back above and beyond the two I already mentioned that'd be reasonable to post this in:

zach Kassian get back on the 4th line! Posted Image
Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian (yup, it's still around)
How Many Points Should We Expect From Zack Kassian
Kassian on 1st line Posted Image
Kassian makes the first and second lines better
My Apology to Zack Kassian.
Kassian next big fan favorite?
Zack Kassian the next Todd Bertuzzi? Posted Image
The Kassian-CoHo deal
Zack Kassian

That's all in the last month. Some are locked (3), but most aren't and I've even skipped a fair number that could be read as not relating directly to Kassian and his play. That's 4 weeks and at least 13 threads (the ones before plus the two last night and this one today).

I'm all for people discussing things around whatever forum they apply in, but a little work to see if there's already a thread on the topic you want to post goes a long way.

I certainly report threads that I think don't fit the board rules, and then I let the mods decide. I do give some info on other threads I know are at least similar, since it's pretty apparent that a fair number of these were created without doing any reasonable searching. But, as a started by saying, if you can think of an argument why this one stays over all the others we have on Kassian already open, I'd be interested to hear it.

Edited by elvis15, 18 February 2013 - 11:43 AM.

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#33 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:39 AM

Here's my ask of you then: why is this thread different from the other two last night? Why is it different from any of the Kassian threads before those that have been created to discuss him and his play? What was good enough reason for the one thread I mentioned was locked as redundant that isn't good enough reason for this one?

I did a quick search for threads in Canucks Talk with Kassian in the title, and this is what came back above and beyond the two I already mentioned that'd be reasonable to post this in:

zach Kassian get back on the 4th line! Posted Image
Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian (yup, it's still around)
How Many Points Should We Expect From Zack Kassian
Kassian on 1st line Posted Image
Kassian makes the first and second lines better
My Apology to Zack Kassian.
Kassian next big fan favorite?
Zack Kassian the next Todd Bertuzzi? Posted Image
The Kassian-CoHo deal
Zack Kassian

That's all in the last month. Some are locked (3), but most aren't and I've even skipped a fair number that could be read as not relating directly to Kassian and his play. That's 4 weeks and at least 13 threads (the ones before plus the two last night and this one today).

I'm all for people discussing things around whatever forum they apply in, but a little work to see if there's already a thread on the topic you want to post goes a long way.


+1
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#34 J.R.

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

Remember when everyone was saying something along the lines of:

"He's a young kid and will have ups and downs this season"

Well this would be one of the "downs".
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#35 canuckelhead70

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:52 AM

..



The Leaf's fans cheer and cheer for thier team,even when they lose. Why can't we just support our team,instead of critisizing every move they make.



Really, I live in the Toronto area and that is certainly not the case. I hear those Leaf fans cheering Go Jays Go during the games, so not too sure where you are getting your information from.

Edited by canuckelhead70, 18 February 2013 - 11:57 AM.

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#36 elvis15

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

+1

Thanks!

Like I said I have no issue with people discussing things, but I don't like having to search through multiple threads to remember which one it was I was having a meaningful discussion in. And why would I want to read through multiple threads on a given topic to find out what people are thinking when I could do that in one?

It's also a bit stupid if a thread is so similar that I could just copy/paste my responses from any of the other related threads and have it perfectly apply.

Why not try and keep it all in one place?

Edited by elvis15, 18 February 2013 - 11:55 AM.

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#37 Bodee

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:58 AM

If he plays on the Booth Kesler line he had better have his own personal puck because these guys don't share.
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#38 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

Thanks!

Like I said I have no issue with people discussing things, but I don't like having to search through multiple threads to remember which one it was I was having a meaningful discussion in. And why would I want to read through multiple threads on a given topic to find out what people are thinking when I could do that in one?

It's also a bit stupid if a thread is so similar that I could just copy/paste my responses from any of the other related threads and have it perfectly apply.

Why not try and keep it all in one place?


I agree completely, lol I've copy pasted a couple of my responses to a few threads this morning it gets quite old. I understand people want to voice their concerns about player/teams/coaches and this is the place to do it. but every new repetitive thread just kills me a little inside especially after you post a comment you want someone to see or reply to and then 5 minutes later they're talking about the same thing in another thread lol
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#39 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:04 PM

Policing or not, somebody will inevitably resurrect the Multiple Issues thread and by then this thread will be long forgotten about.

My issue with this thread is that it should be 'has gone', not 'is gone'. But yeah, it's hardly original.
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#40 Bananas

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

Here's my ask of you then: why is this thread different from the other two last night? Why is it different from any of the Kassian threads before those that have been created to discuss him and his play? What was good enough reason for the one thread I mentioned was locked as redundant that isn't good enough reason for this one?

I did a quick search for threads in Canucks Talk with Kassian in the title, and this is what came back above and beyond the two I already mentioned that'd be reasonable to post this in:

zach Kassian get back on the 4th line! Posted Image
Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian (yup, it's still around)
How Many Points Should We Expect From Zack Kassian
Kassian on 1st line Posted Image
Kassian makes the first and second lines better
My Apology to Zack Kassian.
Kassian next big fan favorite?
Zack Kassian the next Todd Bertuzzi? Posted Image
The Kassian-CoHo deal
Zack Kassian

That's all in the last month. Some are locked (3), but most aren't and I've even skipped a fair number that could be read as not relating directly to Kassian and his play. That's 4 weeks and at least 13 threads (the ones before plus the two last night and this one today).

I'm all for people discussing things around whatever forum they apply in, but a little work to see if there's already a thread on the topic you want to post goes a long way.

I certainly report threads that I think don't fit the board rules, and then I let the mods decide. I do give some info on other threads I know are at least similar, since it's pretty apparent that a fair number of these were created without doing any reasonable searching. But, as a started by saying, if you can think of an argument why this one stays over all the others we have on Kassian already open, I'd be interested to hear it.



Would you rather people necro old thread, with a bunch of outdated information and opinions, that people will skip to the last page and not bother to read any of the actual content? Because if that's the case, then maybe all these threads (one for each player) you speak of should be stickied, and nobody but mods and mod wannabes like you are allowed to start threads.

Is this what you are implying? Because if this is the case, then it completely defeats the purpose of having a forum.

Seriously, just stop. You're not going to change the world. Stop trying.

Edited by Joe_Shmo, 18 February 2013 - 12:10 PM.

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#41 Bananas

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

If he plays on the Booth Kesler line he had better have his own personal puck because these guys don't share.


Haha that'd be funny to see. Booth and Kesler fighting over the puck, and Kassian skating around by himself with his own puck. He'd be like the retarded little brother that mom tells you to bring with you when you go play road hockey with your buddies, and little Jimmy s already in goal.
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#42 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

Would you rather people necro old thread, with a bunch of outdated information and opinions, that people will skip to the last page and not bother to read any of the actual content? Because if that's the case, then maybe all these threads (one for each player) you speak of should be stickied, and nobody but mods and mod wannabes like you are allowed to start threads.

Is this what you are implying? Because if this is the case, then it completely defeats the purpose of having a forum.

Seriously, just stop. You're not going to change the world. Stop trying.


yes that's basically what he's saying, because that's how it should be done, so all the info stays in one place. and the info wouldn't be outdated if everyone just posted in the one thread. it would just stay up to date. especially with all the fair weather fans in vancouver and on this forum (not saying you're one but you can't deny a large chunk of this forum is).

honestly with how this forum goes the thought of having a stickied thread to cry about each player after having a couple bad games, or saying they know how to coach better then the coach, or know better then GMMG is probably a pretty good idea.

and to say seriously just stop you're not going to change anything

seriously just stop whining about the team, you're not gunna change anything...
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#43 Bananas

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

yes that's basically what he's saying, because that's how it should be done, so all the info stays in one place. and the info wouldn't be outdated if everyone just posted in the one thread. it would just stay up to date. especially with all the fair weather fans in vancouver and on this forum (not saying you're one but you can't deny a large chunk of this forum is).

honestly with how this forum goes the thought of having a stickied thread to cry about each player after having a couple bad games, or saying they know how to coach better then the coach, or know better then GMMG is probably a pretty good idea.

and to say seriously just stop you're not going to change anything

seriously just stop whining about the team, you're not gunna change anything...


Someone best propose this to admin, then. And until that is done, and until the mods act upon it, there is no sense for a casual poster to go around policing people. As it stands, evlis15's efforts epitomized futility.

My reaction to the redundant threads is to ignore them most of the time.

Edited by Joe_Shmo, 18 February 2013 - 12:31 PM.

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#44 Milk Hot Dog

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

Not surprised he is having a bit of a slump, but that's to be expected with young players finding their game. I really loved that he attempted that hip-check last game. If he can master it, he will strike even more fear in the hearts of his opponents.
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#45 Tearloch7

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

He's been involved in three line combos this season.

Sedin line: go to the front of the net and score

Third line: grind it out two way style:

Kesler line: adjust to a player who hasn't played any games in front of you yet (kes) and adjust to watching the predictable and totally unsubtle see it coming from last week slapper from the high slot.

Kass is 22.

Should be a third line guy right now playing two way so he learns defense and how to be physical consistently.

Anyone expecting more at this stage doesn't know player development.


Well said .. part of the learning curve ..
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#46 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:40 PM

Would you rather people necro old thread, with a bunch of outdated information and opinions, that people will skip to the last page and not bother to read any of the actual content? Because if that's the case, then maybe all these threads (one for each player) you speak of should be stickied, and nobody but mods and mod wannabes like you are allowed to start threads.

Is this what you are implying? Because if this is the case, then it completely defeats the purpose of having a forum.

Valid point. I never open the 'Burrows - Do We Really Need Him?' thread because i don't feel like LPing or sifting through thousands of posts saying pretty much the same thing.

If every player needs his own discussion thread, such as it is in prospects, then what we'll have is a cleaner-looking board, but massive threads that are made massive just for the post-count giggles that some people get on cdc.

I think we can work with some middle ground. The Burrows - Do We Really Need Him? thread is a 'yay' thread because of his success story here. Perhaps the Kassian 'Issues' thread will become that as well. Certainly there are those who will pump those threads with posts. But should all other threads be immediately locked? I think yes, but only if they are immediately redundant. And this one may be.

Note to the OP: Yup, in this case you should've searched for another recent Kassian thread to post your thoughts in. Next time if you want to start a new thread, have some new information at hand. But be aware that cdc often thinks/posts about it well before you do.
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#47 Ohnoeszz

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

Remember when everyone was saying something along the lines of:

"He's a young kid and will have ups and downs this season"

Well this would be one of the "downs".


This place celebrates or panics based entirely on production.

Kassian was floating in the defensive zone earlier in the season too. Thats the real issue. He needs to increase his overall work rate because he was putting less effort into defense last night than the Sedins. He was completely ineffective in doing anything. Not just making defensive reads and getting to the right spots quickly, but he was a low energy player along the boards. He needs to at least commit to energized board play and dominate his space if he isn't going to skate hard.

He still needs a lot of work as a player, and I agree with whoever suggested sending him to the wolves when Booth comes back. We won't need him here and he needs time to commit to and learn the defensive part of the game - hopefully before this year's playoffs.
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#48 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

Someone best propose this to admin, then. And until that is done, and until the mods act upon it, there is no sense for a casual poster to go around policing people. As it stands, evlis15's efforts epitomized futility.

My reaction to the redundant threads is to ignore them most of the time.


Fair enough I guess, it's only a matter of probably a few games until he'll score a couple goals have a big fight or huge hit and someone starts a KASSIAN RULES!! thread and the discussion will move there for a week or 2. then he'll slow down a bit again and we'll have another one of these threads.

maybe one day people will understand that consistency is an issue for more then half the league (especially the young guys). Otherwise they'd all make 5 million+
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#49 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:53 PM

Valid point. I never open the 'Burrows - Do We Really Need Him?' thread because i don't feel like LPing or sifting through thousands of posts saying pretty much the same thing.

If every player needs his own discussion thread, such as it is in prospects, then what we'll have is a cleaner-looking board, but massive threads that are made massive just for the post-count giggles that some people get on cdc.

I think we can work with some middle ground. The Burrows - Do We Really Need Him? thread is a 'yay' thread because of his success story here. Perhaps the Kassian 'Issues' thread will become that as well. Certainly there are those who will pump those threads with posts. But should all other threads be immediately locked? I think yes, but only if they are immediately redundant. And this one may be.

Note to the OP: Yup, in this case you should've searched for another recent Kassian thread to post your thoughts in. Next time if you want to start a new thread, have some new information at hand. But be aware that cdc often thinks/posts about it well before you do.


some good points there TO I didnt really think about how the length of the threads would affect the conversations. but I'm sure those interested would stay relatively up to date in them. +1
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#50 stexx

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:54 PM

Like last year? There is no reason to not work hard he needs to wake up.


he was hurt last year in the playoffs, hard to be a physical force with 1 arm.

quote from kass's trainer dave orton:

When you and Zack started training together last summer, did he have any specific goals or things that he wanted to improve on?
”For sure. His shoulder was a big one. He separated it late in the season."

full article which is a great piece to read actually (probably posted somewhere else but whatever)

http://canucks.nhl.c...vid=DL|VAN|home
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#51 playboi19

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

Like last year? There is no reason to not work hard he needs to wake up.

Last year is a whole different story.

Even the greatest players in the game have really good streaks followed by a dry spell. I've watched a handful of Boston Bruins games this season and Lucic has been a no-show in a large portion of them.
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#52 debluvscanucks

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

How did this slip through? If you see that 2 Kassian threads before yours have been closed, chances are you should take notice. However, as there is a good discussion being generated and we're a few pages in, we'll let it stand.

Honestly, what is this evaluating players every 1-2 games? You do know that players will have ups/downs and he is a work in progress. His minutes were limited and I'm sure the coaches are on it. Doesn't mean he's a bust, just means he needs some tweaking.
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#53 rkoshack

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:20 PM

Sigh....might as well copy and paste my post from the last Kassian thread.

I'm guessing the OP never watched much of Zack on the Wolves. If you did you wouldn't be surprised by this. He'd have a string of great games much like you saw to begin this season and then he'd be invisible or not good for a number of games in a row.

He struggles with inconsistency like its almost as if he's 22 years old....oh wait, he is.

This may be hard for some Canuck fans to handle but you're going to actually have to have some patience with this prospect for a change.
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#54 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

Honestly, what is this evaluating players every 1-2 games? You do know that players will have ups/downs and he is a work in progress. His minutes were limited and I'm sure the coaches are on it. Doesn't mean he's a bust, just means he needs some tweaking.


That's logic, Deb. We don't got time fo dat!! :bigblush:

Edited by MaximYapierre, 18 February 2013 - 01:25 PM.

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#55 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:29 PM

How did this slip through? If you see that 2 Kassian threads before yours have been closed, chances are you should take notice. However, as there is a good discussion being generated and we're a few pages in, we'll let it stand.

Honestly, what is this evaluating players every 1-2 games? You do know that players will have ups/downs and he is a work in progress. His minutes were limited and I'm sure the coaches are on it. Doesn't mean he's a bust, just means he needs some tweaking.


Should just rename this thread the Zack Kassian Consistency Issues thread
or the rise,fall,rise,fall again rise some more then fall of Zack Kassian lol
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#56 snolan

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:35 PM

Kassian had a good start but he still needs to grow his skill-set.

It should come, as he showed at the start of the season he has all of the tools it's getting stronger on fundamentals like board work and that is part of developing prospects.
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#57 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:48 PM

You have any idea why we are one of the most hated fan bases in the NHL? Because our own fans rag on our team more than any one else..

The Leaf's fans cheer and cheer for thier team,even when they lose. Why can't we just support our team,instead of critisizing every move they make.


Please... Leaf fans who blindly support guys like Brian Burke are the ones everyone laughs at.

Leaf fans who are honestly critical of their own team are the ones you can actually have dialog with.

I would argue that the defensive fans who spaz because they cant handle criticism are the ones who give their fanbase a bad reputation.
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#58 elvis15

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:07 PM

Would you rather people necro old thread, with a bunch of outdated information and opinions, that people will skip to the last page and not bother to read any of the actual content? Because if that's the case, then maybe all these threads (one for each player) you speak of should be stickied, and nobody but mods and mod wannabes like you are allowed to start threads.

Is this what you are implying? Because if this is the case, then it completely defeats the purpose of having a forum.

Seriously, just stop. You're not going to change the world. Stop trying.

Perhaps, but then you're just as likely to change my opinion on redundant threads. You're welcome to reply, but don't be offended if I point out (in a nice way mind you, I'm not posting facepalms and calling people stupid) there are other threads on the same topic.

And I'd hardly consider continuing a discussion in threads that are less than 4 weeks old a necro bump. If a thread has not been replied to in weeks or more, sure, but if people are still posting in them and discussing the topic, then it's still a current thread. Just because it's not on the front page of new topics doesn't mean it's no longer useful and the "Multiple Warning Signs" thread has posts all the way up to last week.

The redundant thread from last night is an example of why it isn't futile to report threads that are the same as one posted recently. They do get locked in the hopes people will use the existing ones. Performance of the site is a small part of the issue, but finding and discussing topics in one place versus several is annoying for many users.

Here's my opinion on Kassian though (as Deb's already said there's no issue with this thread due to the discussion it's generating):
  • He does some things well in his own end, but he's never going to be a star contributor defensively.
  • He'll be more noticeable 5 on 5 and potentially on the power play considering his skillset.
  • He has worked hard on finding the right balance between size, speed and fitness for the NHL level so he can be more effective, but he's still young so we'll see ups and downs until he figures it out.
  • You can tell he knows how to contribute with better players, as well as create some space for himself against NHL'ers, but needs to figure out how he can apply that to make others around him better.
  • He's going to only get better, it's just a question of where his ceiling is and how long it takes him to get there.
  • He'll find games to get more involved in, and hopefully we see consistency in that effort as time goes on.

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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#59 chrisbanks

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:07 PM

what i love the best is all this " we need to give him time to develope" bs .. our genious GM last year loked straight into the camera right after the trade and said " this is the guy we need in our roster right now and i believe gives us a better look going into the playoffs" well he did nothing for us then and is aparently finidng his way down the roster now.... anyone can get goals with the sedins .. but can you help make the sedins better? answer for kassian is no, the line is better with burrows on it. can he keep up on the second line with higgins and kes doesnt look like it ... if he cant kept up on the second line he has no chance on our 3rd seeing is how it might be the fastest line in the league... so down to the 4th line he goes? everyone said he could be the next lucic well when lucic didnt score in his first years he wasnt invisable he was still a huge part of bostons team if kassian isnt knocking in empty net goals set up from the sedins he apears to do nothing but turn the puck over.
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#60 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:15 PM

Don't want to turn this into a "we need more toughness" thread...but this is why we need more toughness. We can't expect a 22 year old to be our policeman for a variety of reasons. Guys like Brouwer, Neil...etc who can actually play in the top 9 would have skated over and had a discussion with the Blues players last night. This has been an issue with this team for 5 years now.


exactly, for years now we're complaining about the same thing, c'mon gillis, add a couple beasts.

we're at least 2 skilled thugs away from being playoff built imo.

YES!! I am not alone.


not at all, most fans with a brain see the same obvious thing. just the kumbaya crowd thinks head office can police the game and keep opposition honest.
Luongo run yesterday, zero response.
same old same old.


Really, I live in the Toronto area and that is certainly not the case. I hear those Leaf fans cheering Go Jays Go during the games, so not too sure where you are getting your information from.


its popular to hate on Vancouver but Habs and Leafs fans are just as critical.
We're hated because we've been one of the top clubs, if we sucked we'd be more popular.
It's easy to hate Vancouver and the media pushes it.
I say screw em all and Embrace the hate.

Add a couple animals Gillis, stop pissing around.
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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