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Is AV the problem?


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#91 Bang Bang Boogie

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

If we don't do well in the post season, sure. But right now, no. The season is too short for any coaching changes to have a positive impact on this team. Besides, our record is good right now anyways.
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#92 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

Burke extended WIson and then fired him. It happens all the time. Before the extension, Montreal was making noises about hiring AV. GIllis had no one in the wings he was interested in so teo keep AV, he extended him.

Remember, very few coaches had had AV's tenure and fewer have actually won a cup after so many years with the same team/group.

Players grow too comfortable in the system/relationship and can lose the hunger and tune out the message, especially if the system hasn't achieved the desired outcomes. LA turned it around with the same players but a different bench boss. Anaheim has done the same so far this year as has Toronto and Montreal. Obviously, Buffalo thinks changing out Ruff will make a difference. AV's had lots of time to show he can get it done along with the financial support of the owner and player acquisitions that supposedly filled the holes for this team. The result is a team tha tlooks more lost and inneffective than it has in the past 4 years.

TIme for a change.


This.
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#93 Blame Obama

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

it would be better if they work together like luongo and schnieder.
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#94 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

I don't think Gillis has it in him to fire AV.
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#95 Jai604

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:15 PM

The second I saw the tweet by Bob McKenzie saying Ruff had been fired, I knew someone had made a thread suggesting exactly this on CDC.

Sigh.
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#96 jono2009

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:15 PM

EPIC FAIL!
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#97 Noheart

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

That's what the Canucks need - coaches with female names.

First Elaine, now Lindy. That's obviously why we can't win with this team!


Hahah

Moble +1
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BEASTLY!!!

#98 Blame Obama

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

come on toronto or winnipeg GET HIM!!!
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#99 The Brahma Bull

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

Three coaches I would love to see behind the Canuck bench, Queneville, Babcock, and Ruff.


I was really hoping for bylsma to be fired after the pens/flyers playoff gongshow so we could steal him. Too bad. I don't know that much about ruff. What type of coach is he?

I'm sure the Sabres will just hire Cody's dad. ^_^
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#100 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

The non-existence of Tyler Myers is Buffalo's biggest problem, imo. But Miller freaked out when they traded Gaustad for a reason. He was important for d-zone draws. Miller himself has been 'meh' though. Up front they have the Vanek line and that's it. A lot of guys are underperforming, certainly. Is that all the coach?
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#101 jono2009

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:18 PM

With lindy ruff just getting the axe this would be a great time for a coaching upgrade.


If your going to waste our time reading crap, at least spell our coach's name right. It's Alain. Not Allain.
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#102 The Brahma Bull

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

Could you imagine if AV was fired/ Ruff hired by Nucks and then AV was hired by the Sabres? Hodgson's dad would probably lose it.
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#103 murph777

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:23 PM

Could you imagine if AV was fired/ Ruff hired by Nucks and then AV was hired by the Sabres? Hodgson's dad would probably lose it.

That would be hilarious

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#104 wendythirteenthrashers

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

Could you imagine if AV was fired/ Ruff hired by Nucks and then AV was hired by the Sabres? Hodgson's dad would probably lose it.


Comedy gold right there.....
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#105 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:31 PM

One has to wonder why Mike Gillis can't see this either. If it is so glaringly obvious, as you seem to think, how is it that it has escaped the notice of a GM who was voted the best in the entire league?


Well there's no one really to replace AV right now anyways so we're kind of stuck, and I doubt Gillis would just go and fire AV now after he told Manny he can't play anymore, that was probably hard enough for him already.
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#106 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

Well there's no one really to replace AV right now anyways so we're kind of stuck, and I doubt Gillis would just go and fire AV now after he told Manny he can't play anymore, that was probably hard enough for him already.


I disagree with this.

If Gillis agreed with the people who want the coach fired, he would let AV go. He could promote from within, put Arniel in charge or bring in one of the former NHL coaches who is currently out of work.

Quinn, Crawford, Maurice, etc., etc. There are lots of people available.

The truth is, there is no-one available that would be an upgrade over the current coach.
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#107 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

I disagree with this.

If Gillis agreed with the people who want the coach fired, he would let AV go. He could promote from within, put Arniel in charge or bring in one of the former NHL coaches who is currently out of work.

Quinn, Crawford, Maurice, etc., etc. There are lots of people available.

The truth is, there is no-one available that would be an upgrade over the current coach.


Well that's pretty much what I was saying, any coach available right now wouldn't be much better then AV so were kind of stuck.... unless we got Ruff, but I don't know much about him.

Hopefully next season there are lots of options on coaches if we fail in the playoffs again.
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#108 brownky

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

With Lindy Ruff available, firing AV became a good idea.

Well, it's always been a good idea, as he's a "decent" coach. If we're happy being a "decent" team, then that's perfectly fine. He'd be a great guy for a Florida, or a Columbus, or someone with no real talent, lots of older grinders.

We need an exceptional coach; Ruff is an exceptional coach with a very positive record running a consistently average team. Their best players get plucked with alarming frequency.

Putting an exceptional coach with an exceptional team means we don't have to win in deficiency, but from strength; we don't "need" the goaltending to bail out bad matching and pairing decisions night in and out, nor worry as strongly about a useless power play and the infamous Vancouver third period lead blow.

Even the AV diehards can't say that they aren't tired of that one. How many has it been in the past three years of blown 3rds?

Ottawa won the presidents trophy as well. So did Buffalo, and St Louis, and many other teams that haven't won the cup in recent memory. I'd rather be 5th and win the cup than 1st and never win. Accepting the Status Quo as we see here will probably lead to just that.

As an Also-Edit, Larry Robinson is just an assistant with the SJ sharks, and might be available. Won a cup as an assistant in Jersey, Won it again in Jersey as 'interim' some time later, and was in the finals the year after that. Another possible option.

Edited by brownky, 20 February 2013 - 02:55 PM.

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#109 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:51 PM

With Lindy Ruff available, firing AV became a good idea.

Well, it's always been a good idea, as he's a "decent" coach. If we're happy being a "decent" team, then that's perfectly fine. He'd be a great guy for a Florida, or a Columbus, or someone with no real talent, lots of older grinders.

We need an exceptional coach; Ruff is an exceptional coach with a very positive record running a consistently average team. Their best players get plucked with alarming frequency.

Putting an exceptional coach with an exceptional team means we don't have to win in deficiency, but from strength; we don't "need" the goaltending to bail out bad matching and pairing decisions night in and out, nor worry as strongly about a useless power play and the infamous Vancouver third period lead blow.

Even the AV diehards can't say that they aren't tired of that one. How many has it been in the past three years of blown 3rds?

Ottawa won the presidents trophy as well. So did Buffalo, and St Louis, and many other teams that haven't won the cup in recent memory. I'd rather be 5th and win the cup than 1st and never win. Accepting the Status Quo as we see here will probably lead to just that.


agreed.

Edited by TheGame., 20 February 2013 - 02:52 PM.

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#110 Trebreh

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

AV doesnt know how to motivate these guys in big games, last night was a perfect example.

The coach should be the leader of the pack, the Captains his generals, this guy just doesnt know how to lead.

A 1 minute pre-game speech last night in a huge game is all you need to know about AV is his leadership.

All he does is chew his damn gum and let Bowness and Brown to do all the work, i cant remember the last time they had a shot at the bench and showed AV leading his team, it was always his assistants.

Although it would never happen, Ruff would be a good replacement. He would instantly change the teams reputation to a bunch of pushovers to a team that actually stands up for themselves and held anyone who cheapshots your players accountable.
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#111 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:53 PM

I disagree with this.

If Gillis agreed with the people who want the coach fired, he would let AV go. He could promote from within, put Arniel in charge or bring in one of the former NHL coaches who is currently out of work.

Quinn, Crawford, Maurice, etc., etc. There are lots of people available.

The truth is, there is no-one available that would be an upgrade over the current coach.


Sometimes it's not the caliber of the coach but the message or style that makes the difference. IS Carlyle that much better than WIlson or is he just communicating in a different/better manner than WIlson did?

Again, if it boils down to lost interest in the same message being told the same way, the change is about a new messenger and style not about strategic excellence.

Hunter go more out of Washington in a few months than Boudreau. Is he a better coach? I don't think so but he was hard and he made moves with teh core (Ovi) that Boudreau didn't. Maybe a coach who comes in here and benches Kes for diving or not passing...benches Edler for coughing up the puck or drop-passing to the opposition? Benches BIeksa for not hitting Hossa when he waled in front of our net and scored. etc?
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#112 WL Canuck Fan

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:53 PM

Ruff is a pretty good coach.

The reason he got fired is because Regier assembled a horrible team. So now he`s saving his own butt.

But if Buffalo continues its freefall, maybe we can get Ott out of there.


Wait, Regier traded for Hodgson, watcha sayin DeNiro? lol
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#113 CanucksJay

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:59 PM

Ok for those that want AV gone and want someone like Ruff hired, can we draw a Venn diagram to show the differences in the 2 coaching styles so that we can better gauge what kind of improvements we may see?
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#114 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:59 PM

Well that's pretty much what I was saying, any coach available right now wouldn't be much better then AV so were kind of stuck.... unless we got Ruff, but I don't know much about him.

Hopefully next season there are lots of options on coaches if we fail in the playoffs again.


And what I'm saying is that it's highly unlikely that there ever will be...

Scotty Bowman is not coming out of retirement. Babcock isn't going anywhere and neither is Quennville.

The "lots of options" that you talk about will be the Ron Wilsons, Davis Paynes and Terry Murrays of the world.

I give you credit for one thing though: At least you aren't like a large portion of the AV hating crowd who subscribe to the "anybody but AV" theory. Over the past couple of years, I've heard suggestions of bring back Pat Quinn and Marc Crawford, along with suggestions of hiring virtually any other coach with previous NHL experience.

For my money, the time to replace AV will be when the core of this team moves on. Larry Robinson is a guy that interests me, but he'd be a better fit, IMO, when guys like Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder and Gaunce become the core.
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#115 StopesisCanucks

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

LOL!!

Really top three in the conference and we have a coaching problem?

Go put on your helmet before you leave the house


Nucks r in the top 3 because they play in the horrible NW division... I am a fan of AV but Im starting to think he can't light a fire under the team. I will give him a few more games before I start crappy all over him too
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#116 Trebreh

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

Ok for those that want AV gone and want someone like Ruff hired, can we draw a Venn diagram to show the differences in the 2 coaching styles so that we can better gauge what kind of improvements we may see?


Not afraid to call out the refs, defend his players, coach with emotion and stands up for himself and doesnt call out his player through the media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E1wERhkYRQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACK_fFVfbfk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjxL1Rn3cH0

Oh and he's also one of the longest serving coach in NHL history, so he must be doing something right.
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#117 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

And what I'm saying is that it's highly unlikely that there ever will be...

Scotty Bowman is not coming out of retirement. Babcock isn't going anywhere and neither is Quennville.

The "lots of options" that you talk about will be the Ron Wilsons, Davis Paynes and Terry Murrays of the world.

I give you credit for one thing though: At least you aren't like a large portion of the AV hating crowd who subscribe to the "anybody but AV" theory. Over the past couple of years, I've heard suggestions of bring back Pat Quinn and Marc Crawford, along with suggestions of hiring virtually any other coach with previous NHL experience.

For my money, the time to replace AV will be when the core of this team moves on. Larry Robinson is a guy that interests me, but he'd be a better fit, IMO, when guys like Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder and Gaunce become the core.


Yeah that's true, but the team might not necessarily need a "better" coach, but maybe one that can get the team pumped up and playing 100% for 60 minutes every game and not at 75% every game.

I'll admit I've been impressed with how he's handled Schroeder so far and Kassian. I was pretty worried about that at the start of the season.
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#118 brownky

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:08 PM

And what I'm saying is that it's highly unlikely that there ever will be...

Scotty Bowman is not coming out of retirement. Babcock isn't going anywhere and neither is Quennville.

The "lots of options" that you talk about will be the Ron Wilsons, Davis Paynes and Terry Murrays of the world.

I give you credit for one thing though: At least you aren't like a large portion of the AV hating crowd who subscribe to the "anybody but AV" theory. Over the past couple of years, I've heard suggestions of bring back Pat Quinn and Marc Crawford, along with suggestions of hiring virtually any other coach with previous NHL experience.

For my money, the time to replace AV will be when the core of this team moves on. Larry Robinson is a guy that interests me, but he'd be a better fit, IMO, when guys like Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder and Gaunce become the core.


I hear the reasoning, but I disagree with you on the timing. We clearly have a core and some young guns who are capable of doing great things; I would say to fire AV because of that very fact. He's had how many kicks at the can with two (arguably) different cores; He had the tail end of the NasMoBert era, as well as the rise of the Sedins; He's got a few regular season trophies out of it, but I think now is the time to shake it up and try something else. It worked for Pittsburgh to fire and win, it's worked elsewhere as well. Our elite talent is getting older, so it's high time to use it before we lose it.
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#119 The Brahma Bull

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

With Lindy Ruff available, firing AV became a good idea.

Well, it's always been a good idea, as he's a "decent" coach. If we're happy being a "decent" team, then that's perfectly fine. He'd be a great guy for a Florida, or a Columbus, or someone with no real talent, lots of older grinders.

We need an exceptional coach; Ruff is an exceptional coach with a very positive record running a consistently average team. Their best players get plucked with alarming frequency.

Putting an exceptional coach with an exceptional team means we don't have to win in deficiency, but from strength; we don't "need" the goaltending to bail out bad matching and pairing decisions night in and out, nor worry as strongly about a useless power play and the infamous Vancouver third period lead blow.

Even the AV diehards can't say that they aren't tired of that one. How many has it been in the past three years of blown 3rds?

Ottawa won the presidents trophy as well. So did Buffalo, and St Louis, and many other teams that haven't won the cup in recent memory. I'd rather be 5th and win the cup than 1st and never win. Accepting the Status Quo as we see here will probably lead to just that.

As an Also-Edit, Larry Robinson is just an assistant with the SJ sharks, and might be available. Won a cup as an assistant in Jersey, Won it again in Jersey as 'interim' some time later, and was in the finals the year after that. Another possible option.


I think I remember reading somewhere that Larry Robinson doesn't want to be a head coach for health reasons.
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#120 snucks

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

Iron Mike is available.
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