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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 6.0


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#391 canuckfan85

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:50 PM

Luongo
2013 first
Cannauton
Ballard

for
Weiss
Gubranson
2013 first
cap dump.


Luongo is a freaking all star for christ sakes and FLA has the worst goaltending in the league.
we take a cap dump for ballard and Luongo. We move up a great deal in the draft, but we give Florida our 1st and Cannauton so that their future does not take that big a hit.

This leaves them with Bjugstad, Shore, Huberdeau, Kulikov, Markstrom, Howden...still a good solid core.
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#392 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:17 PM

This team needs some new blood or we're never going to win a cup. Luongo needs to be traded just because of the assets that can be brought in to turn this team around. They literally wont make the playoffs next season if things keep going the way they're going. Stephen Weiss, Marcel Goc, Jose Theodore, Nik Bjugstad and a 1st should all come over from Florida. Roberto Luongo and Mason Raymond should go to Florida. Raymond is a young winger who could definetly boost his numbers on a thin, southeastern team.

Once Kesler and Booth come back(AGAIN!!) Stephen Weiss could push Ryan Kesler to the RW. Kesler could continue to show defensive prowess but would get more opportunities to shoot the puck. I think its a great way to rebrand a player who's been struggling for two seasons.


At this point, put Schroeder at 2C and when Kesler comes back, put him at 3C so as to have minimal disruption on team chemistry. The Canucks were flying out there before Kesler and Boith came back. Then when they came back, the Canucks looked like a bunch of lost sheep.
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#393 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:19 PM

At this point, put Schroeder at 2C and when Kesler comes back, put him at 3C so as to have minimal disruption on team chemistry. The Canucks were flying out there before Kesler and Boith came back. Then when they came back, the Canucks looked like a bunch of lost sheep.


Does that mean since kesler is out right now our team chemistry will get better again and we will win again, if so keep him out all season.

Edited by CrippledCanuck, 27 February 2013 - 09:21 PM.

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#394 Merci

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:52 PM

Luongo
Raymond
Ballard
Schroeder
1st

Brouwer
Carlson
Neuvirth

Sign Jason Arnott to a 2 year 6 million dollar deal


Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Kassian
Hansen Arnott Brouwer
Weise Lapierre Higgins

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Carlson
Garrison Tanev

Schneider
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Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

vPTJpcO.jpg


#395 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:37 PM

Its kinda funny how you say Luongo is worth Ovechkin, and you say that Schneider is worth more so we should trade him.

But then you say Schneider for Bjugstad is fair. (But Bjugstad for Luongo isn't)

I think I am missing something here.. Is CS more valuable than RL or not? If so shouldn't he bring back a better return than just Bjugstad?


Ok.

Luongo is worth more than Schneider. you know what you're getting with Luongo, whereas with Schneider, he hasn't played enough to know how his career is going to turn out.

A fair trade for Luongo would be Ovechkin. Both are superstars, have big, long term contracts, which incidently, makes both contracts rather undradable for most teams unless two teams with such contracts come to term; Luongo for Lecavalier, lecavalier for Ovechkin, Ovechkin for Luongo and so on.

Conversely, since Schneider's contract is short termed with less money, he is much more marketable than Luongo, though that does not necessarily translate into a better player; just a better, tradable contract.

So it is my belief that:

Luongo is currently a better bet than Schneider because he has a longer record to prove it; you know what you're getting,
Luongo is not as marketable as a trade asset unless another long-term high money contract is the return which, incidently, is usually the signification of a superstar,
Schneider is more marketable, due to his lower cap hit and shorter contractual term, thereby compatible with more teams as a tradable commodity.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 27 February 2013 - 10:40 PM.

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#396 singing chef

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:38 PM

Luongo
Raymond
Ballard
Schroeder
1st

Brouwer
Carlson
Neuvirth

Sign Jason Arnott to a 2 year 6 million dollar deal


Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Kassian
Hansen Arnott Brouwer
Weise Lapierre Higgins

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Carlson
Garrison Tanev

Schneider



Overpay much ?????????
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#397 canuckfan85

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:47 PM

This team needs some new blood or we're never going to win a cup. Luongo needs to be traded just because of the assets that can be brought in to turn this team around. They literally wont make the playoffs next season if things keep going the way they're going. Stephen Weiss, Marcel Goc, Jose Theodore, Nik Bjugstad and a 1st should all come over from Florida. Roberto Luongo and Mason Raymond should go to Florida. Raymond is a young winger who could definetly boost his numbers on a thin, southeastern team.

Once Kesler and Booth come back(AGAIN!!) Stephen Weiss could push Ryan Kesler to the RW. Kesler could continue to show defensive prowess but would get more opportunities to shoot the puck. I think its a great way to rebrand a player who's been struggling for two seasons.


If that offer was on the table, the deal would have been done a long long time ago. Long time ago...did I mention it would have happened already?
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#398 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:48 PM

Does that mean since kesler is out right now our team chemistry will get better again and we will win again, if so keep him out all season.


I would not be surprised to see the Cnaucks go back to their winning ways without Kesler. I have come to believe that he is an attention hogger, puck hogger, diver; a distraction to the success of this team. i am still not proven right.

In time, if indeed the Canucks start winning on a constant basis again without Kesler and start losing again when he comes back, then logic would dictate that he is indeed a distraction to the team as well as an impeding factor in the success of the team.
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#399 Neversummer

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

No way to deny it ... it's Luongo's behemoth contract that is preventing any trade from happening. Which goes back to ... MG. We will look like idiots when trade deadline come and go and we still have Luongo and Schneider on our roster.
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#400 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:54 PM

No way to deny it ... it's Luongo's behemoth contract that is preventing any trade from happening. Which goes back to ... MG. We will look like idiots when trade deadline come and go and we still have Luongo and Schneider on our roster.


I think the Canucks have much greater problems than goaltending.

As much as we like to think this team is great, it's regular season great. Chicago, Boston and L.A. All had greater defenses, greater size and more heart: you don't get pushed around like the Canucks did twice yet, they got pushed around three years in a row and the last time, they didn't even make it out of the first round.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 27 February 2013 - 11:55 PM.

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#401 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:30 PM

Ok.

Luongo is worth more than Schneider. you know what you're getting with Luongo, whereas with Schneider, he hasn't played enough to know how his career is going to turn out.

A fair trade for Luongo would be Ovechkin. Both are superstars, have big, long term contracts, which incidently, makes both contracts rather undradable for most teams unless two teams with such contracts come to term; Luongo for Lecavalier, lecavalier for Ovechkin, Ovechkin for Luongo and so on.

Conversely, since Schneider's contract is short termed with less money, he is much more marketable than Luongo, though that does not necessarily translate into a better player; just a better, tradable contract.

So it is my belief that:

Luongo is currently a better bet than Schneider because he has a longer record to prove it; you know what you're getting,
Luongo is not as marketable as a trade asset unless another long-term high money contract is the return which, incidently, is usually the signification of a superstar,
Schneider is more marketable, due to his lower cap hit and shorter contractual term, thereby compatible with more teams as a tradable commodity.


Luongo = Lecavalier, but not Ovechkin. (Personally I think Luongo > Vinny, but if Vinny can put up 60+ points he is = to Lu most likely)

A more accurate comparison of Ovechkins value IMO would be Rinne. He is making a huge amount of cash at a long term deal, and is younger than Luongo. Just like Ovechkin.

We should be looking long and hard at making a deal now. This thing has dragged out too long and we could use a quality 2nd/3rd line center.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 27 February 2013 - 11:33 PM.

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#402 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

Luongo = Lecavalier, but not Ovechkin. (Personally I think Luongo > Vinny, but if Vinny can put up 60+ points he is = to Lu most likely)

A more accurate comparison of Ovechkins value IMO would be Rinne. He is making a huge amount of cash at a long term deal, and is younger than Luongo. Just like Ovechkin.

We should be looking long and hard at making a deal now. This thing has dragged out too long and we could use a quality 2nd/3rd line center.


My point SmashianKassian is that with Luongo, the Canucks could certainly get a Lecavalier-type player but top rookies and picks are more difficult to attain, whereas with Schneider, the door is open to anything.
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#403 canuckfan85

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:57 PM

Another Laugher from WSH's goaltender of the future. 4 goals on 18 shots, maybe he let that big new contract of his get to his head. Why have players not walked out on George McPhee for refusing to go out and get them a number 1 goaltender??? oh wait, they have, its called losing every game.

Jokes on McPhee.
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#404 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:11 AM

I would not be surprised to see the Cnaucks go back to their winning ways without Kesler. I have come to believe that he is an attention hogger, puck hogger, diver; a distraction to the success of this team. i am still not proven right.

In time, if indeed the Canucks start winning on a constant basis again without Kesler and start losing again when he comes back, then logic would dictate that he is indeed a distraction to the team as well as an impeding factor in the success of the team.


Since we are talking in the present tense humor me a little with the following

Attention hogger how ?

Diver I will give you. he needs to smarten that up

Kesler was hurt blocking a shot Feb. 15 against Dallas, his first game back after rehabbing his off-season shoulder and wrist injuries - See more at: http://www.calgaryhe...h.nJ3Iswbr.dpuf

Puck hogger - 1goal 4 assists in 7 games, all points he earned while playing on what we now know is a fractured foot.

Distraction to team success how ?

Do you really think 7 games after two major injuries, while playing on a fractured foot with a whole team of underachievers is a good enough size sample to blame losses on him and him alone.

Edited by CrippledCanuck, 28 February 2013 - 12:14 AM.

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#405 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:27 AM

My point SmashianKassian is that with Luongo, the Canucks could certainly get a Lecavalier-type player but top rookies and picks are more difficult to attain, whereas with Schneider, the door is open to anything.


I don't know about that, I think with Luongo young assets are totally attainable, but there are modifications that have to be made with that obviously.

Since we are talking in the present tense humor me a little with the following

Attention hogger how ?

Diver I will give you. he needs to smarten that up

Kesler was hurt blocking a shot Feb. 15 against Dallas, his first game back after rehabbing his off-season shoulder and wrist injuries - See more at: http://www.calgaryhe...h.nJ3Iswbr.dpuf

Puck hogger - 1goal 4 assists in 7 games, all points he earned while playing on what we now know is a fractured foot.

Distraction to team success how ?

Do you really think 7 games after two major injuries, while playing on a fractured foot with a whole team of underachievers is a good enough size sample to blame losses on him and him alone.


I agree, his selfish thing is overrated, all he has been doing is passing and dumping and chasing so far.
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#406 laxgoalie

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

[...]
Sign Jason Arnott to a 2 year 6 million dollar deal
[...]

Why would we give 3 million a year to a guy who failed his physical with the NYR?
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#407 The Bookie

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:49 AM

Since I see that Winnipeg has come back into the discussion, I feel the need to point out that they should be a talking point in a potential Schneider trade over Lu, who I very much doubt would agree to go there even if they were making a play for him. Schneids on the other hand was a big fan favorite with the Moose (basically the same fan-base).
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#408 Pears

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:58 AM

I think this would be the perfect time to load up on centers

To Vancouver: Stephen Weiss

To Florida: Anton Rodin, Bill Sweatt, 2013 1st


To Vancouver: Ryan O'Reilly

To Colorado: Keith Ballard, Mason Raymond, 2013 & 2014 2nd (this might need a bit more value)

Healthy line up:

Sedin - Sedin - Kesler
Booth - Weiss - O'Reilly
Burrows - Schroeder - Kassian
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Alberts/Barker/Vandermeer - Tanev

Schneider
Luongo

At the draft Luongo and Booth can be traded for prospects and picks (1sts and 2nds)

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 28 February 2013 - 12:59 AM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#409 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:58 AM

I don't know about that, I think with Luongo young assets are totally attainable, but there are modifications that have to be made with that obviously.



I agree, his selfish thing is overrated, all he has been doing is passing and dumping and chasing so far.


Again, how do rookies and picks help this core win?
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#410 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:00 AM

Since I see that Winnipeg has come back into the discussion, I feel the need to point out that they should be a talking point in a potential Schneider trade over Lu, who I very much doubt would agree to go there even if they were making a play for him. Schneids on the other hand was a big fan favorite with the Moose (basically the same fan-base).


Indeed. This card cannot be discarded by all means.

WPG
Schneider package

VAN
Byfuglien

Just what the doctor ordered.
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#411 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:12 AM

Okay I think we need to make a deal, this has dragged on awhile. A have a few propositions:
(Added players on our side are for contract reasons)

#1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted Image Drew Shore + Alex Petrovic + Shawn Mattias + Scottie Upshall

Posted Image Roberto Luongo + Andrew Ebbett + Anton Rodin + Kellan Tochkin

- Shore is that 3rd line center that can play now, has Ryan O'Rielly like upside.
- Mattias fills Mannys role, good on faceoffs, good defensively, big body that is physical. Aswell has upside.
- Petrovic is a nice piece to get, a projected punishing two-way top 4 guy, I really like what he brings
- Upshall is the cap dump, since FLA is under tough economic circumstances

#2 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted Image Tyler Bozak + Matt Frattin + Ben Scrivens + 2nd Round Pick + 4th Round Pick

Posted Image Roberto Luongo + Andrew Ebbett + Guillaume Desbiens

- Bozak fills the 3C role very nicely
- Frattin good player w/ nice upside, can help now but also helps next year when we run into cap issues
- Ben Scrivens would be a nice backup.
- The 2nd is nice to get, aswell the 4th. (Or the 4th can be used to get a role player, like we have before)

#3 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted Image Marcus Johansson + Dimtry Orlov + Micheal Nuevirth + 2nd Round Pick

Posted Image Roberto Luongo + Kevin Connaution + Andrew Ebbett

- Marcus Johansson can be the 3rd liner we need right now, also has nice upside
- Orlov loaded w/ offensive talent/upside, can help on the PP if needed, but more-so next year if we move a Dman.
- Nuevirth is a solid back-up, the 2nd is also a nice to get with this draft being so deep.
- Connaution replaces Orlov for them, aswell evens out the deal.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 28 February 2013 - 01:32 AM.

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#412 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:14 AM

Again, how do rookies and picks help this core win?


Not saying they do, just saying they are attainable in a Roberto Luongo deal.

Although personally I would look at futures first and foremost aside from a center, thats the weakest part of our organization and this is a great opportunity to add to the cupboard
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#413 oldnews

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:03 AM

Again, how do rookies and picks help this core win?


Did Voynov, Nolan, King (all rookies), Martinez (tweener sophomore/rookie) and Lewis (sophomore) not help LA win a Cup last year?

Did Seguin, McQuaid, and Boychuk not help the Bruins win the year before?
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#414 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:24 AM

Indeed. This card cannot be discarded by all means.

WPG
Schneider package

VAN
Byfuglien

Just what the doctor ordered.


Such a deal seems feasible and would be possible given Schneider doesn't have a NTC that allows him to limit trading partners to teams for whom he wouldn't mind playing.

It's not just that Schneider is younger and has a better contract that makes him have more trade value than Luongo. The fact that he doesn't have an NTC invokes the basic economic principles of supply and demand. No NTC = more potential trade partners = more bidders = more leverage for Gillis = higher value return.

If we're talking Schneider, Gillis can engage all teams that need a goalie. For Luongo, the starting point is the same as Schneider - all teams that want to improve their goaltending. But then you have to subtract from that group those teams who're not interested because of Luongo's age and/or contract status. And then you subtract those teams that Luongo wouldn't accept a trade to, such as Edmonton and Winnipeg, perhaps. And then you're left with far fewer trading partners.

Trade Schneider!!!
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#415 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

Indeed. This card cannot be discarded by all means.

WPG
Schneider package

VAN
Byfuglien

Just what the doctor ordered.



1 - Winnipeg just signed Pavelec to a 5 year deal last offseason. Don't see them moving away from him.

2 - Scheinder's worth is at worst equal to Byfuglien. We should not have to included anything to Schneider to get him.

3 - Byfuglien's defense is sub par.. With Enstrom out he has looked less than stellar.
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Posted Image

Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#416 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:43 AM

1 - Winnipeg just signed Pavelec to a 5 year deal last offseason. Don't see them moving away from him.

2 - Scheinder's worth is at worst equal to Byfuglien. We should not have to included anything to Schneider to get him.

3 - Byfuglien's defense is sub par.. With Enstrom out he has looked less than stellar.


Meh, play him with Hamhuis.

Hamhuis Byfuglien
Garrison Bieksa
Edler Tanev

Or, keep Ballard and play Buff at forward:

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Byfuglien
Raymond Schroeder Hansen
Lapierre + who cares with that top-9?
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#417 BertuzziJr 2.0

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:18 AM

Okay I think we need to make a deal, this has dragged on awhile. A have a few propositions:
(Added players on our side are for contract reasons)

#1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted Image Drew Shore + Alex Petrovic + Shawn Mattias + Scottie Upshall

Posted Image Roberto Luongo + Andrew Ebbett + Anton Rodin + Kellan Tochkin

- Shore is that 3rd line center that can play now, has Ryan O'Rielly like upside.
- Mattias fills Mannys role, good on faceoffs, good defensively, big body that is physical. Aswell has upside.
- Petrovic is a nice piece to get, a projected punishing two-way top 4 guy, I really like what he brings
- Upshall is the cap dump, since FLA is under tough economic circumstances

#2 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted Image Tyler Bozak + Matt Frattin + Ben Scrivens + 2nd Round Pick + 4th Round Pick

Posted Image Roberto Luongo + Andrew Ebbett + Guillaume Desbiens

- Bozak fills the 3C role very nicely
- Frattin good player w/ nice upside, can help now but also helps next year when we run into cap issues
- Ben Scrivens would be a nice backup.
- The 2nd is nice to get, aswell the 4th. (Or the 4th can be used to get a role player, like we have before)

#3 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted Image Marcus Johansson + Dimtry Orlov + Micheal Nuevirth + 2nd Round Pick

Posted Image Roberto Luongo + Kevin Connaution + Andrew Ebbett

- Marcus Johansson can be the 3rd liner we need right now, also has nice upside
- Orlov loaded w/ offensive talent/upside, can help on the PP if needed, but more-so next year if we move a Dman.
- Nuevirth is a solid back-up, the 2nd is also a nice to get with this draft being so deep.
- Connaution replaces Orlov for them, aswell evens out the deal.


I actually see these deals as feasible. I can bet that when this thing actually goes down it will have a similar structure to one of the three you have posted. I'd prefer the 1st and 3rd deal out of the three. Also, we are trading for rookies because smart GM's don't plan for a single season. If we were to do that and get bounced in the first round we would kind of be screwed for the future now wouldn't we? I have no idea why everyone freaks out that we can add good young talent
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#418 PLOGUE

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:25 AM

I think this would be the perfect time to load up on centers

To Vancouver: Stephen Weiss

To Florida: Anton Rodin, Bill Sweatt, 2013 1st


To Vancouver: Ryan O'Reilly

To Colorado: Keith Ballard, Mason Raymond, 2013 & 2014 2nd (this might need a bit more value)

Healthy line up:

Sedin - Sedin - Kesler
Booth - Weiss - O'Reilly
Burrows - Schroeder - Kassian
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Alberts/Barker/Vandermeer - Tanev

Schneider
Luongo

At the draft Luongo and Booth can be traded for prospects and picks (1sts and 2nds)

Weiss is the definition of a rental. He is an UFA next year. You don't give 2prospects and a first in a deep draft for 3 months of player who is by all accounts underachieving this year. Most I would pay for him is Sweatt and 3rd. If they want more I would walk away. Keep in mind our cupboards are almost bare. For O'Reilly I still don't see why people want to offer so much. The Avs are asking for a forward and a pick/prospect. Booth/Raymond + Connauton/Schroeder would be more than enough.
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QUOTE (ephysdad @ Oct 26 2008, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or then of course there's always the Ferry

Also,
I'm putting together a list of the criteria to be a "real" Canuck's fan. So far I have this:

1. I cheer for the Canucks, whatever happens.
2. I never say anything bad about the Canucks.
3. I know the difference between "real" fans and posers just by how they post on the CDC or where they sit at GM Place.
4. I wouldn't dream of leaving a game before it ended, even if it meant missing a train, ferry or a threesome with the wife and her hot best friend?
5. I make 10+ posts a day and I have over 10,000 posts on the CDC, so my Canuck "street-cred" is huge. Go away noob!
6. No one F's with me. I train in MMA. I'm really tough. I'll curb stomp yo' donkey.
7. I make a tonne of $$$$.
8. I'm witty.
9. If it meant missing a game, I wouldn't study for a midterm.
10. I roll with a guy who has a wicked car.
11. I like to post "source?" a lot.


#419 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:20 AM

1 - Winnipeg just signed Pavelec to a 5 year deal last offseason. Don't see them moving away from him.

2 - Scheinder's worth is at worst equal to Byfuglien. We should not have to included anything to Schneider to get him.

3 - Byfuglien's defense is sub par.. With Enstrom out he has looked less than stellar.


Pavelec stands as .899 sv% and a 2.98 GAA. Funny how the discrepancy between Luongo and Schneider was the name of the game during the summer with Schneider having ever slightly better numbers than Luongo thereby declaring him God, but a higher discrepancy between Pavelec and Schneider with Schneider having outstanding numbers make him not worth the upgrade for Winnipeg, as well as an irrelevant course of discussion when it concerns our now better stat goaltender Luongo... Run on sentence indeed.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 28 February 2013 - 12:20 PM.

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#420 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:23 PM

Weiss is the definition of a rental. He is an UFA next year. You don't give 2prospects and a first in a deep draft for 3 months of player who is by all accounts underachieving this year. Most I would pay for him is Sweatt and 3rd. If they want more I would walk away. Keep in mind our cupboards are almost bare. For O'Reilly I still don't see why people want to offer so much. The Avs are asking for a forward and a pick/prospect. Booth/Raymond + Connauton/Schroeder would be more than enough.


This.
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