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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 6.0


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#871 brownbello

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:49 AM

I have a hard time believing that Schnieds is the one that's traded because I thought it was Loungo that wanted out. I can see, in terms of Canucks management, if Lu actually wants to stay the strategy is goalie development. How do they view Cannata? If we're being realistic Lu's out clause lines up with Cannata's development more than Lack's. We don't really know what management thinks of Cannata, or where they see his development and I'm pretty sure no one in the media actually know's he exists so we're probably not going to find out.
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#872 oldnews

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:52 AM

I personally am well aware the rookies are playing. but when your shot on offensive production when Kesler has been injured almost all year and booth was out. Schroeder and kassian should have been given chances to play more minutes, especially now with a top center being injured. Also kassian showed success with the twins, and we all know Burrows can be affective on a line without the twins.

Thats my perspective on the handling of the rookies. Until Kesler is back and we dont make any trades to upgrade our center depth or making snag a better top 6 winger, why should they be given more of a chance. they dont even use Kassian as a net presence on the PP, isnt that where alot of power forwards get points is infront of the net?


Until Kesler gets back, the Canucks are short a center. Last time I checked, Raymond was filling in that role as opposed to Burrows earlier in the season - and the Higgins, Raymond, Hansen line has been on fire. The Canucks are also missing Malhotra - I'm actually pretty impressed that AV is using Schroeder in that role - I think it says a lot about what AV thinks Schroeder is capable of, and there's also the vote of confidence in scratching a capable veteran and opting for the rookie.

Kassian is getting 14 minutes a game, he's 9th on the Canucks in both relative corsi and quality of competition he is facing - in other words, Kassian is being used in a way that would suggest he's not a rookie - and he's has looked very good with Booth on the second line (or third line or who cares what line?)

Anyway, if Kadri had been part of a Luongo deal, he'd be playing where he earned and belonged in the lineup - not getting pedigree minutes.

Edited by oldnews, 06 March 2013 - 11:57 AM.

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#873 Claiborne55

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

Oh no, I'm competent enough to follow simple rules, I'm a whiner


So this is now the Whiner thread
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#874 Yotes

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:06 PM

same thing happened with hodgson he played 3rd or 4th line minutes with a healthy kesler.

You cant rely on Raymond to be a center in playoffs when faceoffs are key, its a fill the hole kind of role.

I would just like to see Kassian get some more time with the twins, schroeder is best served to be back in the ahl refining his game playing top minutes not barely being used here.

Im not saying give rookies or if we had kadri elite minutes but if they produce well like Kassian was with the twins why would we have changed that, or alteast not used that on the PP?

Im not trying to argue, i just feel that they could be used better or be better off served going back to chicago in schroeders case. give schroeders spot to pinizzotto if he is healthy lets see what he can do, we must have signed him for a reason to allow him a chance at a 4th line spot
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#875 oldnews

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

same thing happened with hodgson he played 3rd or 4th line minutes with a healthy kesler.

You cant rely on Raymond to be a center in playoffs when faceoffs are key, its a fill the hole kind of role.

I would just like to see Kassian get some more time with the twins, schroeder is best served to be back in the ahl refining his game playing top minutes not barely being used here.

Im not saying give rookies or if we had kadri elite minutes but if they produce well like Kassian was with the twins why would we have changed that, or alteast not used that on the PP?

Im not trying to argue, i just feel that they could be used better or be better off served going back to chicago in schroeders case. give schroeders spot to pinizzotto if he is healthy lets see what he can do, we must have signed him for a reason to allow him a chance at a 4th line spot


It wasn't just about Kassian - that's the thing - as good as Kassian was, Burrows actually makes the twins better - his combination of puck pursuit, ability to cycle with the twins, go to the net, provide screens and finish, play great two way hockey taking pressure off the twins the full length of the ice... Burrows is their ideal partner. Kassian did well, I agree, but he's also finding his way with Booth and getting quality minutes. I don't see much of an issue here.
Not only that, but I think Raymond may actually make a better 2C than Burrows in the meantime - Raymond and Hansen have had unreal chemistry - I liked the way Schroeder looked as well playing with Hansen, but Higgin, Raymond Hansen has been deadly.

Edited by oldnews, 06 March 2013 - 12:21 PM.

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#876 Yotes

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

It wasn't just about Kassian - that's the thing - as good as Kassian was, Burrows actually makes the twins better - his combination of puck pursuit, ability to cycle with the twins, go to the net, provide screens and finish, play great two way hockey taking pressure off the twins the full length of the ice... Burrows is their ideal partner. Kassian did well, I agree, but he's also finding his way with Booth and getting quality minutes. I don't see much of an issue here.


Oh I agree, but how many games has burrows had to gain that chemistry ? kassian did well with his limited action. How about Kassian with the twins on the PP and Burrows on the 2nd unit, to balance that out. Our PP hasnt been good of late, schroeder on the back end hasnt improved it either
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#877 oldnews

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:32 PM

Oh I agree, but how many games has burrows had to gain that chemistry ? kassian did well with his limited action. How about Kassian with the twins on the PP and Burrows on the 2nd unit, to balance that out. Our PP hasnt been good of late, schroeder on the back end hasnt improved it either


I'm with Gary Valk - I want to see Garrison getting powerplay minutes - and Kassian may be a good option for the 1st pp unit with Kesler out, but we may need to start a different thread (or go to one of the many AV hates rookie threads) cause Luo discussion is getting a bit lost here (although, to be fair, all we had to work with today was drivel from Cox and MacLean anyhow).
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#878 BabychStache

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:59 PM

With NJ struggling without Brodeur they may be an interesting trade partner.
Schneider, Ballard, Raymond
For
Larrson, Henrique, Hedberg
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#879 elvis15

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

I'm with Gary Valk - I want to see Garrison getting powerplay minutes - and Kassian may be a good option for the 1st pp unit with Kesler out, but we may need to start a different thread (or go to one of the many AV hates rookie threads) cause Luo discussion is getting a bit lost here (although, to be fair, all we had to work with today was drivel from Cox and MacLean anyhow).

Garrison has been finding his stride for finding when and where to get shots. I think they've been utilizing him defensively because he's sound there (and we've had some issues with that) and as he gets comfortable, they'll start to use him on the PP again too. The PP did have a little more success switching to the 4 forward and 1 D setup, so I don't fault them for running with that - and Schroeder being used there for extra minutes when playing on the 4th otherwise has looked pretty decent.

I do like the chemistry Higgins/Raymond/Hansen have shown, but Raymond in the faceoff dot has been dismal. Increased competition coming up to and in the playoffs does leave me worrying about how successful they'll continue to be, however. A deal with one of our goalies could greatly improve our depth in the top 9 (preferably in the top 6) and I hope that we do see something even if it's only a trade for a more reliable faceoff man who can move between offensive and defensive minutes.

I still a Luongo deal as most likely, with us keep Schneider for the future but mitigating our return a little. Especially since we'd have to see Gillis approach Luongo about staying if he was entertaining the alternative, I just don't think he's had anything of enough worth to really entertain moving Schneider.

Moving Schneider for the right return wouldn't be an issue for me though, same with most Canucks fans I'd guess. We'd have Luongo still and then Lack and Cannata coming up look promising. We'd need that return to be significant though to consider it. I'm talking someone like Larsson or Huberdeau significant, even if there is some value added on either side to make it work.
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#880 Phamda

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:44 PM

Cox is full of crap. 16 days ago he said there was no such trade in place. Today because they are doing well he says there was a trade in place. Ian MacIntyre said this trade was offer by Gillis, btw it was a 2nd Rd pick and Nonis turned it down.
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#881 oldnews

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:07 PM

Garrison has been finding his stride for finding when and where to get shots. I think they've been utilizing him defensively because he's sound there (and we've had some issues with that) and as he gets comfortable, they'll start to use him on the PP again too. The PP did have a little more success switching to the 4 forward and 1 D setup, so I don't fault them for running with that - and Schroeder being used there for extra minutes when playing on the 4th otherwise has looked pretty decent.

I do like the chemistry Higgins/Raymond/Hansen have shown, but Raymond in the faceoff dot has been dismal. Increased competition coming up to and in the playoffs does leave me worrying about how successful they'll continue to be, however. A deal with one of our goalies could greatly improve our depth in the top 9 (preferably in the top 6) and I hope that we do see something even if it's only a trade for a more reliable faceoff man who can move between offensive and defensive minutes.

I still a Luongo deal as most likely, with us keep Schneider for the future but mitigating our return a little. Especially since we'd have to see Gillis approach Luongo about staying if he was entertaining the alternative, I just don't think he's had anything of enough worth to really entertain moving Schneider.

Moving Schneider for the right return wouldn't be an issue for me though, same with most Canucks fans I'd guess. We'd have Luongo still and then Lack and Cannata coming up look promising. We'd need that return to be significant though to consider it. I'm talking someone like Larsson or Huberdeau significant, even if there is some value added on either side to make it work.


I have no issue with the first pp unit, or using four forwards on it (it hasn't cost any shorthanded goals...yet) , and I like the fact they are getting Schroeder quality ice time there. I suppose the idea is to give Garrison the shooter's role on the second unit, but it's not translating into many opportunities for him - a couple minutes a game of pp time... he seems like a weapon that warrants more.
I don't think there is any intention of keeping Raymond at center any longer than necessary, but as a short term fix, he has been outstanding imo and that line has more than made up for losing possession off the draw.

I think the Canucks should poach Steckel out of Toronto (was envious when they signed him as a UFA) - if there aren't any larger deals on the horizon - he's too useful to be buried as their 13th man/5th C, and would be a good fit to replace Manny, given AV's desire to maintain a strictly d-zone start forward unit. Steckel's a UFA and I doubt he re-signs there anyway if they're not going to use him. Even if giving Pinizzotto a shot is in the works, it would be worth it imo to have a guy like Steckel.

Steckel for a 6th.

Edited by oldnews, 06 March 2013 - 02:10 PM.

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#882 BertuzziJr 2.0

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

I have no issue with the first pp unit, or using four forwards on it (it hasn't cost any shorthanded goals...yet) , and I like the fact they are getting Schroeder quality ice time there. I suppose the idea is to give Garrison the shooter's role on the second unit, but it's not translating into many opportunities for him - a couple minutes a game of pp time... he seems like a weapon that warrants more.
I don't think there is any intention of keeping Raymond at center any longer than necessary, but as a short term fix, he has been outstanding imo and that line has more than made up for losing possession off the draw.

I think the Canucks should poach Steckel out of Toronto (was envious when they signed him as a UFA) - if there aren't any larger deals on the horizon - he's too useful to be buried as their 13th man/5th C, and would be a good fit to replace Manny, given AV's desire to maintain a strictly d-zone start forward unit. Steckel's a UFA and I doubt he re-signs there anyway if they're not going to use him. Even if giving Pinizzotto a shot is in the works, it would be worth it imo to have a guy like Steckel.

Steckel for a 6th.


PP1 IMO

Daniel Henrik Kassian

Garrison schroeder/edler
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#883 elvis15

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:39 PM

I guess we'll see how our lineup shakes out once we see a bit more of Pinizzotto in Chicago. He's had a good couple games so far from what I can tell, and we'll need to know if he can play against NHL level competition (and stay healthy) or if we do need to upgrade. Gillis has to be looking at just how well everyone is working and what might need upgrading given that we have some trade pieces we can use coming up to the deadline.
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#884 thad

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:02 PM

Moving Schneider for the right return wouldn't be an issue for me though, same with most Canucks fans I'd guess. We'd have Luongo still and then Lack and Cannata coming up look promising. We'd need that return to be significant though to consider it. I'm talking someone like Larsson or Huberdeau significant, even if there is some value added on either side to make it work.


Agreed, I'd even be inclined to trade Schneider for maybe Boone Jenner and Columbus 1st.

Doubt they're gonna give up their first in this draft but I would say that would be a sufficient enough return. That would make me say it brightens up our future enough that giving up a longer period of stellar goaltending is worth it.

Solid prospect like Jenner and a pick that has a chance to be in the top 5... Not if we have to swap our first though. I'd be into swapping if the lottery was already set and it was a garaunteed top 3 and we got something else useful.

I'd be willing to trade Cory to any bottom feeder not in our division if the return is along those lines.. That or a huberdeau caliber 1 for 1. I'd keep him and trade Lu if it was any less.
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#885 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:37 PM

Agreed, I'd even be inclined to trade Schneider for maybe Boone Jenner and Columbus 1st.

Doubt they're gonna give up their first in this draft but I would say that would be a sufficient enough return. That would make me say it brightens up our future enough that giving up a longer period of stellar goaltending is worth it.

Solid prospect like Jenner and a pick that has a chance to be in the top 5... Not if we have to swap our first though. I'd be into swapping if the lottery was already set and it was a garaunteed top 3 and we got something else useful.

I'd be willing to trade Cory to any bottom feeder not in our division if the return is along those lines.. That or a huberdeau caliber 1 for 1. I'd keep him and trade Lu if it was any less.


If the Canucks deal with Columbus, I sure hope Murray is part of the package. Then the Canucks have their T1D for the next two decades.
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#886 cripplereh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:57 PM

I would do this right this second if I was GM and try to get a cup this year!!

Stephen Weiss,

Mike Santorelli

OR

Shawn Matthias,

Erik Gudbranson,

Scott Clemmensen and a 2nd round pick or 1st if we dont resign Weiss and a 3rd next year

for Luo,Raymond,Sauve and a 4th round pick 3rd if Raymond dont resign


Makes sence so we get a back up goalie,help in the middle and picks,they get Luo and more!!!

Luo wants to be in Florida, the Panthers have what we want and both teams would be better with a trade like this,I just hope we do it sooner like I have been saying then later.Right now as is untill after the trade deadline both our goalies want to believe they are the number 1 here,WE NEED a trade so they can relax and wont have to worry.
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#887 thad

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:12 PM

If the Canucks deal with Columbus, I sure hope Murray is part of the package. Then the Canucks have their T1D for the next two decades.


Haha I'd like him too but that's putting a lot of bold faith in him.. He's still a kid and might be the best defenseman in the league but he might also turn out no better than edler. We all know how much CDC loves him right now lol.

A deal like that may be possible though. Lets say they get 1st overall and take jones. Then they might comfortably swap Murray for Schneider. Murray tanev corrado and old man/captain hamhuis our top 4 in 5yrs
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#888 BertuzziJr 2.0

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:15 PM

Haha I'd like him too but that's putting a lot of bold faith in him.. He's still a kid and might be the best defenseman in the league but he might also turn out no better than edler. We all know how much CDC loves him right now lol.

A deal like that may be possible though. Lets say they get 1st overall and take jones. Then they might comfortably swap Murray for Schneider. Murray tanev corrado and old man/captain hamhuis our top 4 in 5yrs


I'd like Johansen to be part of the deal. I'd also like one of the many first they have too lol. I just really don't want to trade Cory at this point :(
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#889 thad

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:34 PM

I'd like Johansen to be part of the deal. I'd also like one of the many first they have too lol. I just really don't want to trade Cory at this point :(


Me neither, I'm just entertaining the idea of Schneider returns I'd be comfortable with if we move him instead of luongo.

My philosophy is if it makes our future brighter post luongo then I'm all for it.

Johansen would be pretty sick too but I want more if I'm coughing up Cory.

Johansen, their first and useful roster player for Schneider and Schroeder?
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#890 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:36 PM

lolcats. catsthatlol.
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#891 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

Islanders, Panthers, Blue Jackets and maybe Lightning.
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#892 DeNiro

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:42 PM

It's already basically been concluded through many MG interviews, that he's going to keep both goalies till the summer and make the decision based on what happens in the playoffs.

To me it's seems obvious that he hasn't made the final decision that it's going to be Luongo. It will be determined on what he thinks will help this team the most going forward.

If he thinks this team is in serious need of a shakeup after the playoffs, he may trade Cory for a bunch of young assets. If he thinks the team is only a few veteran pieces away from taking another serious run, he might trade Luongo.

But the decision hasn't been made one way or the other at this point.

Edited by DeNiro, 06 March 2013 - 04:42 PM.

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#893 oldnews

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

With NJ struggling without Brodeur they may be an interesting trade partner.
Schneider, Ballard, Raymond
For
Larrson, Henrique, Hedberg


As sweet as that deal would be - and it would take something like that imo to pry Schneider off of MG's roster - I don't see how the Devil's afford that deal. They're struggling financially as it is, and that deal sends almost 12 million their way, and returns only 3.2. Granted Henrique is going to command a hefty contract when he hits RFA at season's end, (and Larsson next year) - but for a club in their position, trading a pair of ELCs is tough.
Lou/NJ are tough to figure though - they did the 6.7 until 2025 for Kovalchuk, and then, as if they didn't learn from that, they inexplicably gave Zajac a 5.75 extension through 2021 that kicks in next year - so if anyone may not be shy about Luongo's contract, perhaps Lou would be the guy, particularly after having ridden Brodeur for the past couple decades.
He's also got Elias, Clarkson, Zubrus, Ponikarovsky and Zidlicky all hitting free agency in months, and who could forget what he did to land Zidlicky. I could see him doing something significant to shore up their future in goal - it's a market that expects/takes goaltending for granted.

New Jersey is interesting, and lots of players to consider...
Larsson, Henrique (RFA), Clarkson (UFA), Zubrus (UFA), Fayne (solid depth Rside D

I'd love to see something like:

Lou, Ballard, Ebbett, 3rd.

Henrique, Fayne, Zubrus
or
Larsson, Josefson, Zubrus.

Zubrus is a UFA, and a 3.4 million cap return - out another couple weeks after wrist injury 3 weeks ago - the Devils added Ponikarovsky in his absence.

Either way, a young two way C, a solid young Rside blueliner, and the cap-dump/ Zubrus could be a great rental, if he regains health.

Edited by oldnews, 06 March 2013 - 05:25 PM.

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#894 elvis15

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

It's already basically been concluded through many MG interviews, that he's going to keep both goalies till the summer and make the decision based on what happens in the playoffs.
...

Not quite so simple as that, if he gets a good offer from someone feeling more desperate before the trade deadline, he'll take it.

As far as the rest, that'll also depend on the return. Unless there's something particularly worrying, I'd think he'll still look at keeping Schneider over Luongo since he hasn't been able to get the increased value back for Schneider he'd been asking for in the past. Whatever is offered, if he gets a deal where Schneider gets more back for us, he'll consider it.
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#895 DeNiro

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:53 PM

Not quite so simple as that, if he gets a good offer from someone feeling more desperate before the trade deadline, he'll take it.

As far as the rest, that'll also depend on the return. Unless there's something particularly worrying, I'd think he'll still look at keeping Schneider over Luongo since he hasn't been able to get the increased value back for Schneider he'd been asking for in the past. Whatever is offered, if he gets a deal where Schneider gets more back for us, he'll consider it.


If a team was going to offer anything significant, they would have done it by now. Gillis has gotten offers, but he seems to see more value in having two top goaltenders.

And how often do teams trade for top goalies at the trade deadline? Barely ever.

The deal will be done in the summer after some evaluation of the team.

Edited by DeNiro, 06 March 2013 - 04:54 PM.

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#896 BertuzziJr 2.0

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:02 PM

If a team was going to offer anything significant, they would have done it by now. Gillis has gotten offers, but he seems to see more value in having two top goaltenders.

And how often do teams trade for top goalies at the trade deadline? Barely ever.

The deal will be done in the summer after some evaluation of the team.


Can't really think of anything. I just have a gut feeling Gillis is going to make a trade at a random time with a random team that nobody was expecting.
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#897 thad

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:06 PM

If a team was going to offer anything significant, they would have done it by now. Gillis has gotten offers, but he seems to see more value in having two top goaltenders.

And how often do teams trade for top goalies at the trade deadline? Barely ever.

The deal will be done in the summer after some evaluation of the team.


I agree with you on luongo. I doubt the offers will change much for him at the deadline but I think they will after some teams goaltending fail them this season.

I could see an offer being to big to refuse for Schneider maybe. Some team might want to get the jump on him sooner than later.
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#898 Yotes

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:13 PM

the problem i have is we keep both goalies. Which one starts the playoffs, how long of a leash does he have. if we go down 2 or 3-0 in the 1st game gets yanked and we turn it around and win does the replacement goalie play till he looses?

How does a 2 goalie system work in the playoffs. 1 goalie playing well is all thats needed. You think the goalie controversy is big now, wait till the playoffs and if say schneider craps the bed like the 1st game of the season and luo comes in, who plays game 2 etc

i think MG is playing with fire holding on to both goalies, it will also lower the return as teams can just wait till FA see what goalies dont get resigned and watch what the canucks do, they can wait out MG until he has dumped salary or he needs to move a goalie.

Take the next 3 weeks, talk to any team thatss interested in both goalies, review the offers and take the best one that helps us win the cup this year.
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#899 DeNiro

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:25 PM

I agree with you on luongo. I doubt the offers will change much for him at the deadline but I think they will after some teams goaltending fail them this season.

I could see an offer being to big to refuse for Schneider maybe. Some team might want to get the jump on him sooner than later.


I could see that. Maybe a team that's out of it at the trade deadline and wants to give their fans something to get excited about this season. If a team like Florida pretty much has a top 3 pick sealed up, maybe they're willing to part with Gudbranson or Bjugstad in order to add a top goalie.

I don't see the same situation happening with Luongo though. Teams know he'll likely be available in the summer. And that's alot of salary to convince an owner to take on at the trade deadline. Adding a goalie like him also hurts a teams chances of getting a high pick.
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#900 ForsbergTheGreat

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:30 PM

Haha I'd like him too but that's putting a lot of bold faith in him.. He's still a kid and might be the best defenseman in the league but he might also turn out no better than edler. We all know how much CDC loves him right now lol.

A deal like that may be possible though. Lets say they get 1st overall and take jones. Then they might comfortably swap Murray for Schneider. Murray tanev corrado and old man/captain hamhuis our top 4 in 5yrs


CBJ with having 3 first round draft picks this year is going to be a rebuild team. They wont be in contention in 3 years by the time corys contract is up. It makes no sense for them to trade away future parts for a goalie that can help a team now and will have to resign for more $$ in a few years. They'd be better off trading for or drafting a goalie prospect to develop with the rest of their team and giving up less in doing so.

Edited by ForsbergTheGreat, 06 March 2013 - 05:33 PM.

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