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#301 FutureNHLGm

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

Worse than the Panthers? Jets? Capitals? Leafs? give me a break. Buffalo has a decent roster at least its not a bottom of the barrel roster.

Yah cause emotional outbursts of anger always goes over so well with the officials.

Yah AV chews gum... so what? You honestly believe he doesn't say anything at all on the bench?

Luongo is a big boy and his career is not over because he let in 8 against a good Detroit team. Individual stats are great but the most important stats are the team's wins/losses stats.


Canucks need a coach with emotion. Someone like Roger Neilson would be perfect, and Lindy is that guy. Notice how I said Confidence first before stats, because that's more important. Luckily, Lu is a pretty headstrong guy these days with his twitter, so I don't think it'll affect him as badly but what AV did was so wrong. I think he says stuff, he just doesn't say enough. He's too cool and calm. Canucks don't need that. They need some damn emotion and that's one of the reasons having Kassian is so important. He's the only one, along with maybe volpatti and Higgins, that show some damn emotion.
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#302 kassian's lost tooth

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

Worse than the Panthers? Jets? Capitals? Leafs? give me a break. Buffalo has a decent roster at least its not a bottom of the barrel roster.

Yah cause emotional outbursts of anger always goes over so well with the officials.

Yah AV chews gum... so what? You honestly believe he doesn't say anything at all on the bench?

Luongo is a big boy and his career is not over because he let in 8 against a good Detroit team. Individual stats are great but the most important stats are the team's wins/losses stats.


Please just stop. It's pretty clear you can't do what you demand of others...make a structured argument backed by evidence. You've not made a single coherent argument for keeping AV. You simply find fault with other posts, which is both lame and lazy.
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#303 snucks

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

Kesler will never be what he was in 2010. One fluke year and nothing else to show besides that.

I don't think he's as happy anymore, not as happy as Luongo, AV's old captain. Maybe Kessler will be the one to get traded instead of the coaches fired.
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#304 Aladeen

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

Please just stop. It's pretty clear you can't do what you demand of others...make a structured argument backed by evidence. You've not made a single coherent argument for keeping AV. You simply find fault with other posts, which is both lame and lazy.

I'm sorry, please point me to a single fricken thing of value to any thread that you've posted. You are probably an alternate account for one of these other AV hating posters. At any rate out of your 33 post I suspect a whopping zero have anything to do with what thread they were actually in.

I get sick of repeating myself here (what you accuse me of is exactly what you do with every post) but here are your coherent arguements for keeping AV, I will keep them as simple as possible so even you can understand ( :picard: to myself for even responding to you):

1. AV's win loss record - Really this is all that matters since a winning coach > than a losing coach any day of the week.

2. Who are we going to replace him with? Ruff? Noel? Crow? Keenan? I fail to see you showing why these guys will take the Canucks to the Stanley Cup.

3. Why is it so imperitive to do it right now? Last I checked the Canucks still have a chance at making the playoffs. :rolleyes:

4. Av always handles himself well with the media, if we had a guy like Torts there would be never ending controversy surrounding this team (although that is still the case it would be way worse)

5. Look at the hardware (albeit regular season) that the Canucks have recieved since AV took over coaching. Is that just a coincidence or did maybe he have something to do with it.

6. Ulitmately change just for the sake of change is not necessarily good. We can't predict how a drastic change in this club will affect player performance. At least with AV we can bank on the fact that we will get to the post season which is the only possible way a team can win a Stanley Cup.

7. Interviews with the core players of this team have shown that they have nothing but positive things to say about AV. The Sedin's seem to like him and that can only be a good thing.

8. He is signed to a contract, while I am sure it is NP for Aquilini to buyout it is still a commitment made and should be honored unless the Canucks are just tanking which they haven't.

Ultimately I am sick of these threads popping up (surprisingly) after every loss... and are conviently absent after wins or win streaks.

So there you have it I eagerly anticipate your insightful and witting response.
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#305 L'Orange

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

Hey Aladeen, I admire your perseverance, (and 36 yrs as well) but I've been around for quite a few of these threads and they're really nothing more than a circle-jerk for the resident CDC He-Man AV haters club.

What you have is a bunch of armchair experts that are so sure they've got the formula that will finally bring the Canucks that elusive Cup, they're willing to claim that they understand the situation better than actual professional hockey people like Mike Gillis. (When you point this out to them, they usually claim that Gillis really wants to fire AV, but "it would make him look bad" or some such garbage.)

The fact is, none of these naysayers have any sort of relevant hockey credentials, so anything they say should be taken with a large grain of salt.

You've fought the good fight mate and for that I give you props, but you're yelling into the wind in these types of threads. In the end just be secure in the knowledge that Mike Gillis doesn't share the heavily slanted opinions of the "fire AV" crowd.


Rupert,

Please do me a favor and get off your high horse. You made generalized negative statements regarding the "fire AV" crowd within the thread. Circle jerk? Real mature. Or perhaps you speak from experience?

You are no better than Aladeen who seems to relish in cutting others down (poorly I might add). For a 52 year old, I would expect better.

I don't care how long you have been on the CDC or whether or not you have ever been banned. What do you want? A cookie for being a good boy?
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#306 L'Orange

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

I'm sorry, please point me to a single fricken thing of value to any thread that you've posted. You are probably an alternate account for one of these other AV hating posters. At any rate out of your 33 post I suspect a whopping zero have anything to do with what thread they were actually in.

I get sick of repeating myself here (what you accuse me of is exactly what you do with every post) but here are your coherent arguements for keeping AV, I will keep them as simple as possible so even you can understand ( :picard: to myself for even responding to you):

1. AV's win loss record - Really this is all that matters since a winning coach > than a losing coach any day of the week.

2. Who are we going to replace him with? Ruff? Noel? Crow? Keenan? I fail to see you showing why these guys will take the Canucks to the Stanley Cup.

3. Why is it so imperitive to do it right now? Last I checked the Canucks still have a chance at making the playoffs. :rolleyes:

4. Av always handles himself well with the media, if we had a guy like Torts there would be never ending controversy surrounding this team (although that is still the case it would be way worse)

5. Look at the hardware (albeit regular season) that the Canucks have recieved since AV took over coaching. Is that just a coincidence or did maybe he have something to do with it.

6. Ulitmately change just for the sake of change is not necessarily good. We can't predict how a drastic change in this club will affect player performance. At least with AV we can bank on the fact that we will get to the post season which is the only possible way a team can win a Stanley Cup.

7. Interviews with the core players of this team have shown that they have nothing but positive things to say about AV. The Sedin's seem to like him and that can only be a good thing.

8. He is signed to a contract, while I am sure it is NP for Aquilini to buyout it is still a commitment made and should be honored unless the Canucks are just tanking which they haven't.

Ultimately I am sick of these threads popping up (surprisingly) after every loss... and are conviently absent after wins or win streaks.

So there you have it I eagerly anticipate your insightful and witting response.


So are you sick of it or do you eagerly anticipate it? Which one Aladeen?

Your arguments are not based in fact, merely your skewed opinion. Do me a favour and instead of acting like a complete a$$ when someone posts something you don't agree with, try to state your case without insulting others.

I can only assume in person that you are the antithesis of who you are here.
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#307 kassian's lost tooth

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

You missed the obvious point that this team is starting to tune him out evidenced by uninspired play. That's reason enough to make the change. According to your logic, the only time to fire him is when the team has a losing record in the regular season. I don't see the value in waiting until that happens to make the change. That's my opinion informed by decades of playing and being a fan of this sport. Your rather petty retorts fail to acknowledge that others can have valid opinions that differ from yours. Chill out dude...it's a message board. Practice the logic skills you picked up at community college someplace where people give a crap.
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#308 Iron_Gland

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

I think what Barry Trotz has done with the ever revolving roster and limited cap budget most years is more impressive than what AV has done with a stacked, deep team in Vancouver, even if Nashville hasn't been as successful. Yes, his regular season winning percentage number's are good, but the fact of the matter is when the going gets tough in the playoffs, he has no answer and often gets out-coached. It happened twice vs Chicago when the Canucks even had series leads (even gave up a 3-0 lead and made zero adjustments and lucked out with a gutsy game 7 win), happened vs LA, Boston, etc. etc. I don't think he deserves the chances he's getting after so many failed playoff runs. Most that stop before they ever get going.

Edited by Iron_Gland, 26 February 2013 - 04:15 PM.

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#309 Aladeen

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

So are you sick of it or do you eagerly anticipate it? Which one Aladeen?

Your arguments are not based in fact, merely your skewed opinion. Do me a favour and instead of acting like a complete a$$ when someone posts something you don't agree with, try to state your case without insulting others.

I can only assume in person that you are the antithesis of who you are here.

Again with the Irony ROFL it is so lost on you but very comical to me!
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#310 Aladeen

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:20 PM

You missed the obvious point that this team is starting to tune him out evidenced by uninspired play. That's reason enough to make the change. According to your logic, the only time to fire him is when the team has a losing record in the regular season. I don't see the value in waiting until that happens to make the change. That's my opinion informed by decades of playing and being a fan of this sport. Your rather petty retorts fail to acknowledge that others can have valid opinions that differ from yours. Chill out dude...it's a message board. Practice the logic skills you picked up at community college someplace where people give a crap.

Oh thats a fact is it? And my logic is yes fire him if he is no longer able to give us a product on the Ice that competes for a cup. As he has shown that every year aside from the first couple he has turned this team into a legit contender that has a great chance to win each year.

Not sure why you're telling me to chill when its obvious from your posts all 34 riveting posts it is clearly you getting your panties in a bunch.

Hate AV if you want I don't care, he won't be fired today and chances are he won't be fired tomorrow so really I will enjoy watching the team he coaches.
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#311 higgyfan

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:33 PM

I think what Barry Trotz has done with the ever revolving roster and limited cap budget most years is more impressive than what AV has done with a stacked, deep team in Vancouver, even if Nashville hasn't been as successful. Yes, his regular season winning percentage number's are good, but the fact of the matter is when the going gets tough in the playoffs, he has no answer and often gets out-coached. It happened twice vs Chicago when the Canucks even had series leads (even gave up a 3-0 lead and made zero adjustments and lucked out with a gutsy game 7 win), happened vs LA, Boston, etc. etc. I don't think he deserves the chances he's getting after so many failed playoff runs. Most that stop before they ever get going.


I can't imagine suffering through a season of Nashville style hockey. You're making me want AV even more!
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#312 kassian's lost tooth

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

Every team competes for the cup you idiot. It's the level of competition that counts, and every post season exit resulted from a lack of competition. If you're satisfied with regular season success, great. Go gloat on the message boards for LA, Chicago and Boston and see if you get any sympathy there for AV's greatness. I'm sure not one single person would reply with "and how many cup rings does he have?" Not to mention, how each of the above teams beat the Canucks, in part, because they out coached them to get that cup ring.
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#313 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:47 PM

Rupert,

Please do me a favor and get off your high horse. You made generalized negative statements regarding the "fire AV" crowd within the thread. Circle jerk? Real mature. Or perhaps you speak from experience?

You are no better than Aladeen who seems to relish in cutting others down (poorly I might add). For a 52 year old, I would expect better.

I don't care how long you have been on the CDC or whether or not you have ever been banned. What do you want? A cookie for being a good boy?


I call 'em as I see 'em.

Like Aladeen says, these threads inevitably pop up after a Canuck loss and after three years of reading the same tired arguments, there really is nothing to do but call a spade a spade.

Your "cookie" comment pretty much shows your age, BTW. The fact is, if I did as much "cutting down" as you claim, there isn't much chance that I'd avoid the banhammer for so long. Meanwhile, if you actually read the posts in this thread, you'll see others on your side of the argument using the words "Developmentally disabled" and "morons", just to name two.
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#314 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

Its interesting to see that the majority of AV haters would love to see Ruff as a replacement for AV citing that he gets great results with lesser players.

Vanek
Miller
Erhoff
Hodgson we'll take his name off the list as to not provoke further controversy.
Pominville
Ennis
Stafford
Myers
Regher
Ott
Grigorenko

One thing I can say with absolute confidence is if AV had that team to work with, they wouldn't be in the sub sub basement of the Eastern Conference.


isn't this your "belief" though and not in any way provable to certainty by stats or evidence? And didn't you say beliefs are useless without being able to be backed up?

Again, no one cares what you think just as much as you don't care what we think. The funny thing about opinions is everyone has the right to have them and in the case of whether the team has tuned AV out neither side can say that with any actual certainty. So maybe you need to find a new argument or you really are only ending up calling yourself out along with the rest of us.....
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#315 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

I call 'em as I see 'em.

Like Aladeen says, these threads inevitably pop up after a Canuck loss and after three years of reading the same tired arguments, there really is nothing to do but call a spade a spade.

Your "cookie" comment pretty much shows your age, BTW. The fact is, if I did as much "cutting down" as you claim, there isn't much chance that I'd avoid the banhammer for so long. Meanwhile, if you actually read the posts in this thread, you'll see others on your side of the argument using the words "Developmentally disabled" and "morons", just to name two.


Threads pop up after losses all the time.......that does not mean the arguments to change coaches have not been the same for the last year and a half. I think it cheapens you to suggest that anyone wanting to change coaches is relying on one regular season loss as their rationale for that.

And the arguments to keep AV are just as tiresome and old as well. The one certainty here is that the playoff issues of the past several years are still there now. Unless that magically changes the Canucks will be in tough in the playoffs again.
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#316 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:00 PM

There is a difference between winning in the regular season and winning in the playoffs.......and this Canucks team has underscored that point many times over the past several seasons. Something has to give because if they play the way they are now in he playoffs they will not get far.

But for a few bounces, this team could be closer to the bottom than the top. And that doesn't tend to work come playoff time.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 26 February 2013 - 05:01 PM.

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#317 1970 and beyond

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:07 PM

I think this team needs one thing to get them over the hump. The last few years there just seems to be something missing and keeping them from being a truly elite team. Maybe a coaching change is that one thing.
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Been a fan from day one. Some of those days were good and some were bad.

#318 Mr.DirtyDangles

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:07 PM

So are you sick of it or do you eagerly anticipate it? Which one Aladeen?

Your arguments are not based in fact, merely your skewed opinion. Do me a favour and instead of acting like a complete a$$ when someone posts something you don't agree with, try to state your case without insulting others.

I can only assume in person that you are the antithesis of who you are here.


Are you really this ignorant ? Or is your arrogance getting in the way of what little cognitive reasoning you have ? Which one is it ? The way you respond to posts is the response you are going to get. The moronic tripe you have spewed in this thread simply shows your lack of hockey intelligence.

You and fans like you cause dissension in the ranks everywhere you go. Is it really that hard for you to actually see the silver lining in the clouds ? You cant see ANY positives to AV and his time here ? You cant see that he has helped perennial penalty box visitors like Kess, Juice, Lappy and Burr drop their minutes exponentially ? Never mind the fact this team is probably the best passing team and 5 on 5 team in the league? (With exception to the sh..hawks)

So we are figured out a little cuz half the league wants to fly into the offensive zone with the ease that we seem to. Never mind the fact the other half of the league is watching game tape of our PP formation and PK tactics. You AV haters really make me sick and i will not tolerate your pure garbage anymore.

Even when people post positive rational explanations for why AV is not going anywhere you and many other here in CDC seem to just be blinded by your hate with no real evidence to back any of your assumptions up.

The fact you blind sheep come out in droves after a loss is all the evidence I need to know you really have nothing of intelligence to say in regards to this team.

Edited by Mr.DirtyDangles, 26 February 2013 - 05:11 PM.

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#319 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:23 PM

Threads pop up after losses all the time.......that does not mean the arguments to change coaches have not been the same for the last year and a half. I think it cheapens you to suggest that anyone wanting to change coaches is relying on one regular season loss as their rationale for that.

And the arguments to keep AV are just as tiresome and old as well. The one certainty here is that the playoff issues of the past several years are still there now. Unless that magically changes the Canucks will be in tough in the playoffs again.


Going to have another go with me, are you Wallstreet?

Remember when we crossed swords over Kevin Bieksa? Remember your assertion that Ballard would never get a fair shake as long as AV was his coach?

Remember how convinced you were that you were correct and I was "delusional"?
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#320 Yotes

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:33 PM

i doubt lindy ruff would come here as an assistant coach, if he did that would be great and it would put some pressure on AV.

I also wouldnt be opposed to bring back marc crawford, he had good success here without an elite goalie. When montreal brought back their coach for a second time alot of ppl questioned the move, but so far it looks like the team is doing well under him.

I think crawford could have some success here if he were to return, Ruff is another obvious choice.

All i will say is you dont need to have a current established coach take over, Pittsburgh fired their coach and brought in Bylsma, he had no previous nhl coaching experience.

So you can bring in a fresh face or change coaches during a year and have success. Like i stated before with LA bringing in Sutter last year and look what happened...
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#321 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

Going to have another go with me, are you Wallstreet?

Remember when we crossed swords over Kevin Bieksa? Remember your assertion that Ballard would never get a fair shake as long as AV was his coach?

Remember how convinced you were that you were correct and I was "delusional"?


Yep....still waiting for that fair shot for Ballard too.....;)

I am perfectly willing to admit that my opinion on things is not the end all and be all....that is why it is an opinion. But I don't think my questions regarding AV can be categorized as a reaction to a blowout loss to Detroit or that my opinions have no merit because AV has a good regular season record......

I value your opinion as a (usually) reasonable poster even when we disagree because most of the time you do not add the personal attacks or other BS that the other guy in this thread does. To be fair though your (and his) opinions are still just opinions. It seems a bit much to suggest it is fact and ours are fiction. The real world does not work taht way.
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#322 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

so really I will enjoy watching the team he coaches.


Lol you will enjoy feasting on bottom feeders to make the playoffs and losing against the good teams, alright suits yourself but I would rather watch us raise a cup than underachieve and choke with the deepest team in the nhl.
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#323 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:32 PM

Yep....still waiting for that fair shot for Ballard too..... ;)

I am perfectly willing to admit that my opinion on things is not the end all and be all....that is why it is an opinion. But I don't think my questions regarding AV can be categorized as a reaction to a blowout loss to Detroit or that my opinions have no merit because AV has a good regular season record......

I value your opinion as a (usually) reasonable poster even when we disagree because most of the time you do not add the personal attacks or other BS that the other guy in this thread does. To be fair though your (and his) opinions are still just opinions. It seems a bit much to suggest it is fact and ours are fiction. The real world does not work taht way.

I don't remember calling anyone's opinion fiction, nor mine fact.

What I did do was call out the baser segments of the anti-AV crowd, who refer to things like "gum chewing", "timeouts", "playing favorites" and "hating rookies" as a basis for suggesting that the coach be fired.

FTR: Posters like yourself and Vansicle offer reasonable posts, which is why I tend not to ridicule them. I do disagree with both of you on this particular issue, but what it comes down to (as you noted) is opinion. I don't subscribe to the theory that all opinions are created equal, (I believe there are informed and uninformed opinions) however, the two of you back up your opinions, so I have no issue with them

By the same token, i believe that I back up my own and as my previous post mentioned, I have a decent record of being right. That being said, I welcome debate with posters such as you and V. (After all, that's what this forum is for) Others, not so much.
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#324 MikeyD

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

He certainly doesn't give our team a chance to win every night. We could be absolutely dominated for two periods and he won't call a time-out to get their skates moving. It's ridiculous.
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#325 Vansicle

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

Some would say that "a brick wall" would have been adequate to get the point across. They might also say that using the phrase "developmentally disabled" crossed the line into personal insult territory. YMMV.

Really? We can't even say that anymore? Not even when we're talkimg about an exceptionally obtuse wall?
I'm glad to know the new rules.
Wwhen AV is fired, and that day will come, we'l look back at this and laugh. We'll I will. AV homers will quietly whimper in the corner somewhere while the neww coash and Corey Schneider bring Vancouver the Cup.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#326 canuck73_3

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

He certainly doesn't give our team a chance to win every night. We could be absolutely dominated for two periods and he won't call a time-out to get their skates moving. It's ridiculous.


The timeout, the most overrrated knock on AV I have seen seriously he didn't call a timeout, I see 10-15 games a week where teams are in the same situation as us when you guys cry for timeout and no one calls one why?

Because a timeout is very rarely a momentum changer maybe 1 in every 50 is but for the most part you save it now for icing calls if your team has been hemmed in their end for long periods of time. Timeouts are NOT game changers sorry to burst your bubble.
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credit to canuckforever00 for the sig :)

RIP Luc Bourdon

#327 Riviera82

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:12 PM

Seriously man, does anyone really care about regular season accomplishments like President's trophies that come on the back of being in the weakest division in the NHL?

He has had 7 years and gotten out of the 2nd round of the playoffs once.........so really, who cares about the useless regular season accolades? It is about how does this group win a cup. AV has accomplished exactly zero with this group based on that benchmark.

I get that AV, the core players, and fans like you think runner up in the Stanley Cup is good enough as long as we keep winning President's Trophies.

Puuuuuuulease......those are the useless arguments of people who realize their coach has done jack squat when it REALLY counts.

You are purposely obtuse as to the actual point I was making and that's your prerogative Just don't respond to my posts though if you have no real point to make.

And it is hilarious that you can honestly say AV has gotten enough out of his 23 man roster EVER in the playoffs. Good luck arguing that one buddy.


Bravo, +1 sir.
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#328 canuck73_3

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:19 PM

Bravo, +1 sir.


This is where the anti AV crowd is absolutely stupid.

You can't have post season success without regular season success really not that hard to figure out...

Teams like LA last year, Carolina and Edmonton in 06 and Calgary in 04 come along once in a blue moon but 80-90% of the time teams with regular season success have post season success regardless of how bad or good there division is, didn't seem to hurt Detroit having a crap division for the better part of 96-2008
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credit to canuckforever00 for the sig :)

RIP Luc Bourdon

#329 Riviera82

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:20 PM

You're posts are pathetic and have zero value keep whining for AV to be fired what is hilarious is the fact that you think the winningest coach in Canucks history will be fired while the team is still winning. What a joke.

and Yet your arguements call for the Hiring of Ruff... you reek of hypocrisy. One thing I just figured you're right about... your post are not worth responding to so I will leave you to hold your breath till AV is fired.


Ok but how much winning has AV done in the playoffs? 1 foray past round 2 in 6 years, 0 championships. Something does need to change and Gillis cant replace the whole team.
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#330 Riviera82

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:26 PM

Yah when have the Canucks ever challenged for the cup under AV :rolleyes:


Once in 6 years, after being a goal away from being eliminated in the greatest upset in NHL history in round 1.
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