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#361 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:21 AM

Honestly, I know that with the way the team is right now, we have ZERO chance of winning the cup so lately, I have begun to embrace the losses because the more our playoff future is in jeopardy, the better the likelyhood of AV getting fired.

All you homers can point your finger at me and question my love for the Canucks but what you need to understand is that I feel this way because I do love this team and know that this team is capable of performing much better with a better coach.

Our elite talent and effort used to win games like tonight however, it should be apparent that our system has been figured out by the better coached teams in this league, our effort level has come down and now we are just relying on natural talent to win games.

We've tried tweaking this team year after year. The only thing that hasn't been done is to get a new coach. So all you AV lovers out there, why would you continually do the same thing over and over again and continue to fail when we can try something new in hopes that a coaching change might be the missing ingredient?

Do you have that much faith in AV that you would rather try a major shakeup like trading Kesler rather than trying a new coach?
If not a major shakeup, and not replacing the coaching, what's the best plan? minor tweaks again and hope for the best???
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#362 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:24 AM

I'm a true believer in that teams will play the way they practice. I consider regular season a practice for the Canucks. For those that think the Canucks will simply flip the switch come playoffs are in for a rude awakening.
There's only 2 scenarios folks.
Either our team is not as good as we thought OR simply they are not achieving their potential.

My hope is that the problem is the latter. If our problem is scenario 1, we are in a far worse position to win a cup as that would mean we need to pull of some major trades to be in contention again.

If the problem is us not playing to our potential, then the quickest and easiest fix is to switch up the coaching.

The Canucks have become WAY too predictable in the way they play and you will see that we struggle against well coached teams. We struggle against, St Louis (Hitchcock), Det (Babcock), Chicago (Quenville), Phoenix (Tippet), Kings (Sutter). All these teams come in with a game plan because we only know how to play one way. Most of us that watch every game know exactly where the puck will go when its in our zone. I find myself already fully knowing what our players will do BEFORE they make their move to get the puck out of our zone. Well guess what? So do the other teams.

For instance, tonight, I saw the Coyotes players cheat many times to the boards just waiting for the reverse or the usual chip up the boards towards the blue line. They were there ahead of the play just waiting for a nice tape to tape pass from our d-man.

Now for those that think the playoffs will be different are in complete denial. In the playoffs, it will be even tougher against a well coached team because they know our system inside out and have 7 games to execute what they practice.

In our cup run, the Nashville series REALLY stood out to me because on paper, Nashville should have been swept by us. However, they were successfully able to shut down the Sedins and it took a beast mode solo performance from Kesler to beat them. What Kesler did in that series is NOT coachable and that's why Nashville did not have an answer for Kesler. They didn't have a game plan for the unpredictable play of Kesler (where he simply beat them with skill NOT system) where as they knew EXACTLY what to expect from the Sedins.

So, to summarize, without a coaching change or an addition of a game breaker, it should be obvious that this year will be no different from any other year.


Good point. There is a pretty big significance when you think about the best coaches in the league and then compare our record against those teams.

Guess what? they have us figured out.
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#363 allkill326

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:26 AM

Yet another spam from a troll. This thread should definitely be locked and deleted. :)
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#364 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:28 AM

Yet another spam from a troll. This thread should definitely be locked and deleted. :)


I love how people are called trolls when they have a criticism about the team...
sorry we don't all live in lala land where denial helps us cope with our issues.
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#365 Aladeen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:31 AM

It wouldn't have even been top 3 as I listed 4 series that were bigger upsets and that's not even going beyond the 90's and off the top of my head. So wrong again...

Don't waste your time man, these are the same people that say the only reason we won those presidents trophies is because we feasted on our pathetically weak division and that we didn't deserve to be there to begin with yet when it suits their livid hate for the AV they will happily flip-flop their positions.

They don't think injuries to star players should account for anything, also they seem to fail to realize that their is a whole other team of hockey professionals trying to accomplish the exact same thing as the Canucks. They also fail to understand that parity in the league is at an all time high (no longer do we see the dominating dynasties of the Oilers and Red Wings in this cap era)also they are blind to things like injuries, suspensions, reffing,and puck luck and that these things can and will stem the tide against superior (on paper) teams.

But all these things are actually a result of AV not preparing the players well enough. These self proclaimed experts would have you believe that under Ruff or Noel or Arniel the Canucks would be dominating their way to a Stanley Cup each and every year.

To them winning the Cup is as simple as the coach wanting to win it bad enough. And because AV chews gum, he is apathetic to winning the Stanley Cup.
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#366 Aladeen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:42 AM

Honestly, I know that with the way the team is right now, we have ZERO chance of winning the cup so lately, I have begun to embrace the losses because the more our playoff future is in jeopardy, the better the likelyhood of AV getting fired.

All you homers can point your finger at me and question my love for the Canucks but what you need to understand is that I feel this way because I do love this team and know that this team is capable of performing much better with a better coach.

Our elite talent and effort used to win games like tonight however, it should be apparent that our system has been figured out by the better coached teams in this league, our effort level has come down and now we are just relying on natural talent to win games.

We've tried tweaking this team year after year. The only thing that hasn't been done is to get a new coach. So all you AV lovers out there, why would you continually do the same thing over and over again and continue to fail when we can try something new in hopes that a coaching change might be the missing ingredient?

Do you have that much faith in AV that you would rather try a major shakeup like trading Kesler rather than trying a new coach?
If not a major shakeup, and not replacing the coaching, what's the best plan? minor tweaks again and hope for the best???

Guess what if you hope the Canucks lose you are not a Canuck fan, go cheer for the Blue Jackets if that is the case then you will be estatic on almost a nightly basis.
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#367 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:49 AM

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Guess what if you hope the Canucks lose you are not a Canuck fan, go cheer for the Blue Jackets if that is the case then you will be estatic on almost a nightly basis.


I think the Canucks losing is a means to an end because that also would mean change would be coming.

The ultimate goal is the Stanley Cup, not another Presidents trophy

I could turn the argument around and say that you are not a fan because you like the team being stuck in mediocrity and a true fan should hope for better from their beloved team.

Do you honestly think that the Canucks as they are are good enough to win the cup?

Please give me an honest response. I'm curious.
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#368 Kack Zassian

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:53 AM

I think the Canucks losing is a means to an end because that also would mean change would be coming.

The ultimate goal is the Stanley Cup, not another Presidents trophy

I could turn the argument around and say that you are not a fan because you like the team being stuck in mediocrity and a true fan should hope for better from their beloved team.

Do you honestly think that the Canucks as they are are good enough to win the cup?

Please give me an honest response. I'm curious.


I would say its a good enough team.

I would also consider myself a realist, and say there are 10 other teams who could do just as much damage in the post season.
This team is a solid contender.
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#369 Aladeen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:10 AM

I think the Canucks losing is a means to an end because that also would mean change would be coming.

The ultimate goal is the Stanley Cup, not another Presidents trophy

I could turn the argument around and say that you are not a fan because you like the team being stuck in mediocrity and a true fan should hope for better from their beloved team.

Do you honestly think that the Canucks as they are are good enough to win the cup?

Please give me an honest response. I'm curious.

Honestly yes absolutely, Ask any NHL player worth their salt and they will tell you the playoffs are a fresh slate, that any team is capable of winning it any given year... the first step is to make the playoffs... the more you make the Playoffs the more likely you are to win the cup... the formula for a cup is pretty simple give yourself a chance to win it each and every year by first making the playoffs.

If Keith and Toews were out due to injury you're telling me you wouldn't think the Canucks could beat the Blackhawks in 7 games?

If Quick was playing below average you don't think the Canucks chances against LA are pretty damn good?

If Getzlaf was suspended you don't think the Canucks would be at least a coin flip against them?

If the Canucks stayed healthy throughout the playoffs you really can't see that they can content for the cup?

Anything can happen in the Playoffs, that is what makes them so exciting also that is what makes winning the Stanley Cup the hardest trophy to win in any sport (at least in my opinion).
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#370 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:19 AM

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I live in Calgary and I find it laughable when my co-workers are scoreboard watching and hoping their team makes the playoffs because they think exactly like you do, ANYTHING can happen in the playoffs.

the LA Kings are an anomoly. Anything CANNOT really happen.

LA had Quick, Doughty, Brown, Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Gagne, Williams, Stoll, Mitchell

They were underachieving for such a stacked roster and it finally took a coaching change to make them perform.

Although they were 8th seed, clearly they were a better team that required a better coach.

The Canucks also have a stacked team on paper and I think it's pretty clear that they are not playing up to their capabilities.
So if a coaching change is not required, what is needed to make this team perform up to their potential?
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#371 Aladeen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:34 AM

I live in Calgary and I find it laughable when my co-workers are scoreboard watching and hoping their team makes the playoffs because they think exactly like you do, ANYTHING can happen in the playoffs.

the LA Kings are an anomoly. Anything CANNOT really happen.

LA had Quick, Doughty, Brown, Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Gagne, Williams, Stoll, Mitchell

They were underachieving for such a stacked roster and it finally took a coaching change to make them perform.

Although they were 8th seed, clearly they were a better team that required a better coach.

The Canucks also have a stacked team on paper and I think it's pretty clear that they are not playing up to their capabilities.
So if a coaching change is not required, what is needed to make this team perform up to their potential?

You completely ignored my questions after I answered yours.

Look you're just the same as these other poster blinded by what you THINK are the problems when in reality you have no clue what goes on in the dressing room.

Maybe you're right, maybe firing AV solves all the problems on this team, but where is the guarantee? Do you guarantee a Cup if we had Ruff, Noel, Arniel? Its just as likely that it has the opposite effect and we will be in the exact same position a couple years down the road when Ruff has failed to deliver a cup or the Canucks have missed the playoffs yet again under the coaching of Arniel.

One thing you're right about though is it will take missing the playoffs for AV to be fired. And something I can guarantee is that no team in NHL history (and please correct me if I am wrong) has won the cup while missing the playoffs.

If you can't understand this concept then you don't have the slightest clue about hockey. And as for hoping your team tanks and missing a year of contention for the cup just so you can get some satisfaction of seeing a man you don't respect fired is about the most pathetic thing I have encountered on CDC (and that is saying a hell of a lot)

Edit: and do you know why your Calgary friends hope their team makes the playoffs? because they have seen first hand what a team can do by squeaking into the playoffs.

Edited by Aladeen, 27 February 2013 - 02:41 AM.

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#372 Riviera82

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:46 AM

It wouldn't have even been top 3 as I listed 4 series that were bigger upsets and that's not even going beyond the 90's and off the top of my head. So wrong again...


In what way were they bigger upsets?? Any time a team blows a 3-0 lead is unbelievable, it's only happened 3 other times! And never to a Presidents Trophy winner. Get with the program.
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#373 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:06 AM

Maybe you're right, maybe firing AV solves all the problems on this team, but where is the guarantee? Do you guarantee a Cup if we had Ruff, Noel, Arniel? Its just as likely that it has the opposite effect and we will be in the exact same position a couple years down the road when Ruff has failed to deliver a cup or the Canucks have missed the playoffs yet again under the coaching of Arniel.


So you are guaranteeing a cup win this year from AV? What if he doesn't win one this year? Or next year? Or the year after that? Where is the guarantee that keeping him means we will finally get a cup because we tried the same thing for 10 years instead of 7?

There is no guarantee no matter what happens with the coaching. but it is pretty obvious that something needs to change to get this team motivated to play at a higher level come playoff time. The easiest solution that is likely to have the biggest impact is a new coaching staff.

Arniel sucks as a coach....just to be clear.
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#374 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:07 AM

In what way were they bigger upsets?? Any time a team blows a 3-0 lead is unbelievable, it's only happened 3 other times! And never to a Presidents Trophy winner. Get with the program.


Since the Canucks didn't lose it is not really an upset.

It is without a doubt one of the worst collapses ever in the playoffs though, that is for sure. And no small part of it was adjustments by Chicago to take advantage of holes in AV's strategy. AV is very fortunate for that Burrows goal.......his inability to counteract the changes the Hawks made was just as much responsible for that debacle as anything else.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 27 February 2013 - 03:10 AM.

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#375 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:14 AM

You completely ignored my questions after I answered yours.

Look you're just the same as these other poster blinded by what you THINK are the problems when in reality you have no clue what goes on in the dressing room.

Maybe you're right, maybe firing AV solves all the problems on this team, but where is the guarantee? Do you guarantee a Cup if we had Ruff, Noel, Arniel? Its just as likely that it has the opposite effect and we will be in the exact same position a couple years down the road when Ruff has failed to deliver a cup or the Canucks have missed the playoffs yet again under the coaching of Arniel.

One thing you're right about though is it will take missing the playoffs for AV to be fired. And something I can guarantee is that no team in NHL history (and please correct me if I am wrong) has won the cup while missing the playoffs.

If you can't understand this concept then you don't have the slightest clue about hockey. And as for hoping your team tanks and missing a year of contention for the cup just so you can get some satisfaction of seeing a man you don't respect fired is about the most pathetic thing I have encountered on CDC (and that is saying a hell of a lot)

Edit: and do you know why your Calgary friends hope their team makes the playoffs? because they have seen first hand what a team can do by squeaking into the playoffs.


I actually think AV will be fired if we have another early playoff exit.
It would be IMPOSSIBLE to miss the playoffs with the talent on this team and the fact our division is horrible.

And no, I don't hope that our team misses the playoffs. I hope that we play badly enough to force MG's hands to make a coaching change in time for the playoffs. And you know what? It looks like the players are playing that way as well. Uninspired, emotionless hockey while just going through the motions.

You ask for a guarantee of winning the cup if we replace AV. I'll ask you then, why are you so upset about replacing AV? Would that decrease our chance at winning the cup? If not, what is the harm in at least trying something different as we keep getting the same results with the same group? Isn't what you are advocating the definition of insanity? (Doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result?)

And you must be kidding me if you think the Flames have a chance in hell of winning the cup this year.
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#376 Baggins

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:52 AM

Honestly, I know that with the way the team is right now, we have ZERO chance of winning the cup so lately, I have begun to embrace the losses because the more our playoff future is in jeopardy, the better the likelyhood of AV getting fired.

All you homers can point your finger at me and question my love for the Canucks but what you need to understand is that I feel this way because I do love this team and know that this team is capable of performing much better with a better coach.

Our elite talent and effort used to win games like tonight however, it should be apparent that our top line has been figured out by the teams in this league, our effort level has come down and now we are just relying on luck to win games.

We've tried tweaking this team year after year. The only thing that hasn't been done is to get a new coach. So all you AV lovers out there, why would you continually do the same thing over and over again and continue to fail when we can try something new in hopes that a coaching change might be the missing ingredient?

Do you have that much faith in AV that you would rather try a major shakeup like trading Kesler rather than trying a new coach?
If not a major shakeup, and not replacing the coaching, what's the best plan? minor tweaks again and hope for the best???


Honestly, I know that with the way the team is right now, we have ZERO chance of winning the cup so lately, I have begun to embrace the losses because the more our playoff future is in jeopardy, the better the likelyhood of the Sedins getting moved.

All you homers can point your finger at me and question my love for the Canucks but what you need to understand is that I feel this way because I do love this team and know that this team is capable of performing much better with a better top line.

Our elite talent and effort used to win games like tonight however, it should be apparent that our system has been figured out by the better coached teams in this league, our effort level has come down and now we are just relying on natural talent to win games.

We've tried tweaking this team year after year. The only thing that hasn't been done is to get a new top line. So all you Sedin lovers out there, why would you continually do the same thing over and over again and continue to fail when we can try something new in hopes that a line change might be the missing ingredient?

Do you have that much faith in the Sedins that you would rather try a minor shakeup like trading Kesler rather than trying a new top line?
If not a minor shakeup, and not replacing the the top line, what's the best plan? Little tweaks again and hope for the best???


:shock:

Edited by Baggins, 27 February 2013 - 05:56 AM.

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#377 MikeyD

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:19 AM

No motivation
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#378 Riviera82

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

Since the Canucks didn't lose it is not really an upset.

It is without a doubt one of the worst collapses ever in the playoffs though, that is for sure. And no small part of it was adjustments by Chicago to take advantage of holes in AV's strategy. AV is very fortunate for that Burrows goal.......his inability to counteract the changes the Hawks made was just as much responsible for that debacle as anything else.


Yes we did avoid the upset but my point earlier was that we were an overtime goal away from it. It is what I'm sure many would consider to be the biggest upset in league history if we'd lost. Fortunately for AV, Burrows finished it off and saved his job.

Edited by Riviera82, 27 February 2013 - 07:44 AM.

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#379 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:13 AM

Really? We can't even say that anymore? Not even when we're talkimg about an exceptionally obtuse wall?
I'm glad to know the new rules.
Wwhen AV is fired, and that day will come, we'l look back at this and laugh. We'll I will. AV homers will quietly whimper in the corner somewhere while the neww coash and Corey Schneider bring Vancouver the Cup.

You can say whatever you want. However, if you are calling someone "developmentally disabled", you shouldn't be whining about being referred to as an "armchair expert"....

As far as your second paragraph goes, I agree, AV will eventually be fired. I'll be as interested as you to see whether the new coach, whoever he is (Although, from what I read in this thread, it doesn't really matter. It could be anybody) automatically guarantees a Stanley Cup.

Once in 6 years, after being a goal away from being eliminated in the greatest upset in NHL history in round 1.

I said this earlier in the thread, ut apparently, it bears repeating:

There was another team that was one goal away from losing in round one. See if you can guess what team that was....

I could turn the argument around and say that you are not a fan because you like the team being stuck in mediocrity and a true fan should hope for better from their beloved team.

You could do that, but it would be a silly thing to say. Wanting to keep the current head coach, is not tantamount to "liking the team being stuck in mediocrity".

Everyone hopes for better from their favorite team. However, "hoping for better" doesn't include deciding that we have the inside track on what would be the best personnel decisions for a professional hockey team for all of us....
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#380 Riviera82

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:29 AM

You can say whatever you want. However, if you are calling someone "developmentally disabled", you shouldn't be whining about being referred to as an "armchair expert"....

As far as your second paragraph goes, I agree, AV will eventually be fired. I'll be as interested as you to see whether the new coach, whoever he is (Although, from what I read in this thread, it doesn't really matter. It could be anybody) automatically guarantees a Stanley Cup.


I said this earlier in the thread, ut apparently, it bears repeating:

There was another team that was one goal away from losing in round one. See if you can guess what team that was....



You could do that, but it would be a silly thing to say. Wanting to keep the current head coach, is not tantamount to "liking the team being stuck in mediocrity".

Everyone hopes for better from their favorite team. However, "hoping for better" doesn't include deciding that we have the inside track on what would be the best personnel decisions for a professional hockey team for all of us....


I assume your'e referring to Boston. If so there are some differences regarding their respective 1st round series in 2011.

Boston and Montreal was a 3/6 matchup.
Boston obviously wasn't the PT winner that year.
Boston did not have a 3-0 series lead.

Yes, that series went to 7 games OT as well, but it would not have been nearly the upset that Vancouver/Chicago almost was.
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#381 Ryan Murray

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:42 AM

I find that our off-ice development is super weak.
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#382 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:49 AM

I assume your'e referring to Boston. If so there are some differences regarding their respective 1st round series in 2011.

Boston and Montreal was a 3/6 matchup.
Boston obviously wasn't the PT winner that year.
Boston did not have a 3-0 series lead.

Yes, that series went to 7 games OT as well, but it would not have been nearly the upset that Vancouver/Chicago almost was.



You're right. They're not similar at all.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#383 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:51 AM

So you are guaranteeing a cup win this year from AV? .


Are you guaranteeing a Cup is AV is fired?

You know....just to be clear...
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#384 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:26 AM

Are you guaranteeing a Cup is AV is fired?

You know....just to be clear...


Did you read my WHOLE post? The answer is right there my friend......
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#385 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:27 AM

So you are guaranteeing a cup win this year from AV? What if he doesn't win one this year? Or next year? Or the year after that? Where is the guarantee that keeping him means we will finally get a cup because we tried the same thing for 10 years instead of 7?

There is no guarantee no matter what happens with the coaching. but it is pretty obvious that something needs to change to get this team motivated to play at a higher level come playoff time. The easiest solution that is likely to have the biggest impact is a new coaching staff.

Arniel sucks as a coach....just to be clear.


Clear enough for you Rupert?
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#386 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:48 AM

Clear enough for you Rupert?


Yeah, that's fine. You're asking for a guarantee of a Cup win if AV is retained, but not willing to do the same if he is fired. Gotcha.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#387 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

Yeah, that's fine. You're asking for a guarantee of a Cup win if AV is retained, but not willing to do the same if he is fired. Gotcha.


Actually, no I'm not because there is no such thing as a guarantee either way as I said. Take a look at the post I was responding to where the guy was suggesting that there would need to be some kind of guarantee of a cup in order to replace AV.......

Would you not agree that expecting a guarantee of a cup win as a condition of replacing AV as coach is pretty stupid and actually is totally impossible?

It is just another sad excuse to hang on to AV. At least touting his achievements is a realistic (if sometimes flawed) argument to keep him. Expecting a magic guarantee in order to replace him is the dumbest idea I have ever read on CDC. I think if you were not just trying to battle anything I say you would probably be able to see that too......

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 27 February 2013 - 10:35 AM.

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#388 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

Yeah, that's fine. You're asking for a guarantee of a Cup win if AV is retained, but not willing to do the same if he is fired. Gotcha.


Where you even get this out of what I said I don't have any clue. Do you even actually read my whole posts?
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#389 MJDDawg

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:38 AM

You're right. I didn't mean I wanted a coach who would run out onto the ice and mcsorley the ref. I personally would prefer to see a new coach who is more consistently emotional and has all of the other criteria a successful candidate would have.


The thing with this is there's little to suggest this style works, long term anyway. Watching the NYR I see Torts yelling constantly yet don't see the players playing with much emotion. Sutter in LA is considered emotional, yet most nights I think he'd show more emotion if he were in a coma.

Besides, I doubt that style would go over well with the veteran group we have. And if a change to a fiery Guy were made, how long before we'd see the first "Has this team tuned out the coach" thread?


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#390 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:49 AM

Aside from all the useless squabbling, I am interested (minus the personal attacks and other BS) to really hear what you guys think.

Do you guys supporting AV really honestly believe that the Canucks are playing well this year? Or that they played well the last half of last year? Do you really see no issues with the motivation, effort, and execution by the players AND by the coaching staff? Yes, it is on all of them, not just the coach. But he is not immune either.

That is usually what happens when players tune out their coach. And the players should absolutely be expected to shape up but it is up to the coach to get them to buy in as well. It is very unlikely that core players are going anywhere due to long term big money contracts (many times with NTC attached) being handed out like candy and by the strong historical evidence that big player changes will not be coming from MG. So if changes need to be made to shake things up, what alternatives do you have to a coaching change? I am very interested in hearing what you see as needing to be done to improve things.

If you do not think AV is responsible at all for how this team is playing listless and unmotivated hockey then you must also not believe that a coach really has much bearing on the success or failure of a team. In that case, why is AV so important to keep anyway if he has so little impact on things? A coach cannot get all the credit for success and none of the responsibility for failure. That is completely flawed and unrealistic.

We have waited a long time and there has been no real improvement in the flaws and weaknesses of this coaching staff. It has actually gotten worse and now even the players seem tired and unmotivated. What is the real risk after this long to make a change and see what happens with a new coach before the team has to rebuild?
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