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#391 cc_devil

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

Will AV be the next Lindy Ruff?
Here too long and no cup?
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#392 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:18 AM

Aside from all the useless squabbling, I am interested (minus the personal attacks and other BS) to really hear what you guys think.

Do you guys supporting AV really honestly believe that the Canucks are playing well this year? Or that they played well the last half of last year? Do you really see no issues with the motivation, effort, and execution by the players AND by the coaching staff? Yes, it is on all of them, not just the coach. But he is not immune either.

That is usually what happens when players tune out their coach. And the players should absolutely be expected to shape up but it is up to the coach to get them to buy in as well. It is very unlikely that core players are going anywhere due to long term big money contracts (many times with NTC attached) being handed out like candy and by the strong historical evidence that big player changes will not be coming from MG. So if changes need to be made to shake things up, what alternatives do you have to a coaching change? I am very interested in hearing what you see as needing to be done to improve things.

If you do not think AV is responsible at all for how this team is playing listless and unmotivated hockey then you must also not believe that a coach really has much bearing on the success or failure of a team. In that case, why is AV so important to keep anyway if he has so little impact on things? A coach cannot get all the credit for success and none of the responsibility for failure. That is completely flawed and unrealistic.

We have waited a long time and there has been no real improvement in the flaws and weaknesses of this coaching staff. It has actually gotten worse and now even the players seem tired and unmotivated. What is the real risk after this long to make a change and see what happens with a new coach before the team has to rebuild?


There's a lot to cover in that post, so instead, I'll just state my case for not replacing the coach at this time.

I disagree that the team has been playing poorly since the half way point of last season. In fact, I thought the final 10 games or so of last season were quite good, especially considering that Daniel was out. I believe that they just ran into a buzzsaw in the Kings, including yet another Conn Smythe goaltending performance.

I disagree in what you call "coaching flaws" and that the team has "tuned him out". I believe this perception stems from the fact that like most fans, AV detractors are too close to the situation.

I maintain that what you all describe as "unmotivated" or "listless" play on the Canucks' part is in fact, the normal ebb and flow in the on-ice performance of a professional hockey team. If you look around the league, there are far more teams doing what the Canucks are doing than there are doing what the 'Hawks are doing.

I don't believe that changing the fortunes of a team is as simple as "showing emotion", "making an impassioned pre-game, or between period speech" and I've never been an advocate of change for change's sake. If there were truly someone out there that I saw as an upgrade, I would be okay with the change, however, I still maintain that it would be as likely to backfire as it would be to work.

Finally, I believe that the time to consider a coaching change is later in the season, if and when the team is plauying poorly and in danger of missing the playoffs. I would also conside it, if the team had clinched a playoff berth, but were on a losing streak. Neither of those is the case at present.

I would suggest revisiting this topic around game 35, or so...
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#393 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:07 PM

There's a lot to cover in that post, so instead, I'll just state my case for not replacing the coach at this time.

I disagree that the team has been playing poorly since the half way point of last season. In fact, I thought the final 10 games or so of last season were quite good, especially considering that Daniel was out. I believe that they just ran into a buzzsaw in the Kings, including yet another Conn Smythe goaltending performance.

I disagree in what you call "coaching flaws" and that the team has "tuned him out". I believe this perception stems from the fact that like most fans, AV detractors are too close to the situation.

I maintain that what you all describe as "unmotivated" or "listless" play on the Canucks' part is in fact, the normal ebb and flow in the on-ice performance of a professional hockey team. If you look around the league, there are far more teams doing what the Canucks are doing than there are doing what the 'Hawks are doing.

I don't believe that changing the fortunes of a team is as simple as "showing emotion", "making an impassioned pre-game, or between period speech" and I've never been an advocate of change for change's sake. If there were truly someone out there that I saw as an upgrade, I would be okay with the change, however, I still maintain that it would be as likely to backfire as it would be to work.

Finally, I believe that the time to consider a coaching change is later in the season, if and when the team is plauying poorly and in danger of missing the playoffs. I would also conside it, if the team had clinched a playoff berth, but were on a losing streak. Neither of those is the case at present.

I would suggest revisiting this topic around game 35, or so...


I think you make some very good points and thank you for presenting them in a way that does not include any kind of put down to someone with an alternate opinion. I appreciate that.

I don't think the answer is all about a coach who shows emotion or gives a great speech. It is more about the obvious things like a clean slate for the players so there are no favorites getting guaranteed ice time when they do not play well enough to deserve it.

There is nothing that makes players more listless than knowing their spot (and also their contract) is guaranteed no matter how they play. That is simply human nature unfortunately. Just like there is nothing more demoralizing to a player than playing well and knowing you will never get a bigger opportunity no matter what you do. That is the byproduct of not changing core players or a coaching staff for such a long time. The coach tends to go back to what has worked in the past even if it is not working now. And we are seeing that a lot this season.

When I see a team play this many games in a row without being able to give a full 60 minute effort or try to sit back and defend a 2 goal lead for half the game, it is more than just ebbs and flows. It is habitual.

If AV showed that he learned from his mistakes and was moving forward as a coach, I would be fine with him staying longer. Because it is not personal to me in any way. It is the fact that every year the same result happens and the same excuses are given as to why this team can be great in the regular season and yet not translate that into playoff success. Sooner or later the coach has to bear responsibility as well. I have never seen a team shield their coach from talking to the media for months the way the Canucks did with AV after the team flamed out last year. Accountability does not seem to be a priority for the Canucks anymore unfortunately. And apparently that applies to AV as well.

You can tell when the players are not listening anymore. The little things get neglected. The effort becomes spotty. The team does not seem to care if they win or lose. If the Canucks feel that Presidents trophies and losing in the finals is good enough to rest on, then major changes should be coming from the top down. If they feel they have the team to make a cup run they need to at least consider whether the team would benefit from another coach to get over the hump.

And changing coaches at the 35 game mark is not much time to get things turned around I don't think.

I think a losing streak is all but impossible with the weak NW division. But how you win and lose makes more difference to playoff success. Which is a reason for the huge disconnect between regular season and playoff results.
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#394 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

I won't bother quoting your post, I'm pretty sure we'll all know what I'm responding to.

Firstly, I think this whole bit about "playing favorites" and "guaranteeing ice time" is another CDC misconception. Coaches play the guys that they believe give them the best chance to win. Not because they think they're great guys, or because they like their hair...

The rest of your post is pretty much your opinion of what you are seeing. I disagree, for reasons already mentioned several times.

BTW: How much time would you consider sufficient to "turn things around"? Would 30 games do it?
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#395 TheCammer

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:56 PM

I think all this discussion is a bit wasteful. The AV hate seems to build whenever we have a few crappy games.

Unless they go into a full-on downward spiral I don't think there is any need to fire Av and the rest of the coaching staff before the end of the year. Mid-season change generally isn't healthy. (yes, there are examples where it has been positive namely Pittsburgh and LA).

I think AV and gang will be evaluated at the end of the year based on our season and playoff performance.

Even though I generally like the way AV coaches and carries himself I believe an early playoff exit will likely mean it is time for a change. It's hard to fire a coach with his success. A snap decison in the middle of a season would be a recipe for disaster. I seriously can't even make a list of strong mid-season possibilities.

Edited by TheCammer, 27 February 2013 - 12:58 PM.

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#396 Robongo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:05 PM

I pray we get blown out by the Kings Saturday coaching change at this point is necessary.
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#397 kassian 09

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:07 PM

Everything is disorganised lines switch every 2 seconds D is all over. Terrible management.
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#398 Snake Doctor

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:13 PM

Another night, another horrible coaching decisions. So many things wrong with this game that I don't know where to start.

But this is no surprise at all. This effort is expected from the Canucks. The coaching staff looking clueless and continue to chew his gum, looking like he has no trump card left.

Kassian is showing why he's still a "prospect" with "untapped potential" and he will get it eventually.

Kesler will never be what he was in 2010. One fluke year and nothing else to show besides that.


I am starting to think it may be time to at least get Kassian back in the top six. Put Shroeder back with Raymond and Hansen, and get Kesler to center the third line
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#399 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:16 PM

I am starting to think it may be time to at least get Kassian back in the top six. Put Shroeder back with Raymond and Hansen, and get Kesler to center the third line


Sorry man, this makes too much sense for AV.
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#400 aqua59

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:20 PM

I keep hearing the word success. What success? At this point no Stanley Cup with this coaching group. I've never said they a bad coaching group, I'm saying they're a stale group.

At one point Vancouver's game was out front. Now it's predictable. Other teams know what they're getting when they play Vancouver.

How exciting is a Canucks home game? It's better watched at home. It's just more fun.

One can blame M Gillis. But has AV used what Gillis have given him to the max?
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#401 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:44 PM

Honestly, I know that with the way the team is right now, we have ZERO chance of winning the cup so lately, I have begun to embrace the losses because the more our playoff future is in jeopardy, the better the likelyhood of the Sedins getting moved.

All you homers can point your finger at me and question my love for the Canucks but what you need to understand is that I feel this way because I do love this team and know that this team is capable of performing much better with a better top line.

Our elite talent and effort used to win games like tonight however, it should be apparent that our system has been figured out by the better coached teams in this league, our effort level has come down and now we are just relying on natural talent to win games.

We've tried tweaking this team year after year. The only thing that hasn't been done is to get a new top line. So all you Sedin lovers out there, why would you continually do the same thing over and over again and continue to fail when we can try something new in hopes that a line change might be the missing ingredient?

Do you have that much faith in the Sedins that you would rather try a minor shakeup like trading Kesler rather than trying a new top line?
If not a minor shakeup, and not replacing the the top line, what's the best plan? Little tweaks again and hope for the best???


:shock:


Do you in all honesty think MG will trade the Sedins BEFORE firing AV?

Because you lost credibility as soon as you wrote that.

Your entire post is pretty much garbage because it's based on the fact that you think trading the Sedins is the same as switching coaches.

I enjoy the fact that you try to bring up analogies to prove your point but it usually blows up in your face because its not well thought out.

Switching coaches is a much safer approach in shaking up the team and bringing new energy/ strategy into the locker room than trading 2 of your best players.

Give your head a shake bud.

Edited by CanucksJay, 27 February 2013 - 01:45 PM.

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#402 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

Here is my biggest AV issue.
When I watch the Canucks, I know exactly where the puck will go whenever the puck is in our zone.
Guess what? The smarter coaches in the NHL now know that as well.

Yesterday we saw Phoenix d-men cheat to the boards before the Canucks even made a play.
EVERYONE knows its either going up the boards or we reverse it and go up the other boards.
We don't use the middle of the ice because they have been engrained and well coached by AV to make the "smart, safe play" and never go up the middle.

Now the other team knows that so they don't even worry. They send their forecheckers hard and then have their d-men cheat to the sides leaving the middle of the ice wide open.

If AV had ANY foresight, he would practice transition games that involve going up the middle. This way in a game like yesterday when we notice that the other team is not playing honest hockey, we could switch it up and use our speedy forewards like Kesler, Booth, Hansen, Shroeder, Raymond and expose the middle of the ice.

I'm not saying do this everytime, I'm just saying have some plays in your back pocket so that he can make this change in strategy on the fly in games like yesterday
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#403 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

I won't bother quoting your post, I'm pretty sure we'll all know what I'm responding to.

Firstly, I think this whole bit about "playing favorites" and "guaranteeing ice time" is another CDC misconception. Coaches play the guys that they believe give them the best chance to win. Not because they think they're great guys, or because they like their hair...

The rest of your post is pretty much your opinion of what you are seeing. I disagree, for reasons already mentioned several times.

BTW: How much time would you consider sufficient to "turn things around"? Would 30 games do it?


Playing guys who you thinkk give you the best chance to win despite them showing for long stretches that they really don't is called playing favorites. No other way to describe it.

I would have rather it been to start the season and there is really no right time to do it in that sense. The sooner the better if this is what we can expect from this team.
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#404 Aladeen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

I pray we get blown out by the Kings Saturday coaching change at this point is necessary.

I pray you leave CDC and become a Kings fan, with all the self-hating Canuck fans, who needs blackhawk and bruins fans sticking it to us. You and Canucks Jay are pathetic. At least I respect Blackhawk and Bruins Fans they want their teams to win, you are just a sorry bunch of whiners who make good Canucks fans ashamed to say that we cheer for the same team as you.

What is the point to hockey if not to win? You think the Canuck players are hoping the get blown out so that AV finally gets fired? If you do you're off your rocker. You think it feels good for Luongo to let in 8 goals in a night. Who do you think Luongo blames for the loss in Detroit? AV or himself? You think he would have wanted to be taken out of the game? If your answer is yes it is blatantly obvious you have never played hockey before.

The worst thing that someone can do in pro sports is to lose on purpose... if I ever suspected NHL teams of doing that I would not be watching hockey, because then the whole concept is meaningless and pointless. The goal is to win to win all the battles in a game to win the game to win the chance to play in the post season to win the series to win the chance to move another step closer to win the ultimate prize of the Stanley Cup.... Do you notice something in that last sequence? the object is to WIN not to lose for your personal feelings against an indivdual this is a TEAM GAME and AV is part of the team and they can win with AV at least as well if not better than any viable alternative at this time.
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#405 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

I pray you leave CDC and become a Kings fan, with all the self-hating Canuck fans, who needs blackhawk and bruins fans sticking it to us. You and Canucks Jay are pathetic. At least I respect Blackhawk and Bruins Fans they want their teams to win, you are just a sorry bunch of whiners who make good Canucks fans ashamed to say that we cheer for the same team as you.

What is the point to hockey if not to win? You think the Canuck players are hoping the get blown out so that AV finally gets fired? If you do you're off your rocker. You think it feels good for Luongo to let in 8 goals in a night. Who do you think Luongo blames for the loss in Detroit? AV or himself? You think he would have wanted to be taken out of the game? If your answer is yes it is blatantly obvious you have never played hockey before.

The worst thing that someone can do in pro sports is to lose on purpose... if I ever suspected NHL teams of doing that I would not be watching hockey, because then the whole concept is meaningless and pointless. The goal is to win to win all the battles in a game to win the game to win the chance to play in the post season to win the series to win the chance to move another step closer to win the ultimate prize of the Stanley Cup.... Do you notice something in that last sequence? the object is to WIN not to lose for your personal feelings against an indivdual this is a TEAM GAME and AV is part of the team and they can win with AV at least as well if not better than any viable alternative at this time.


You just contradicted yourself. You said the goal is to win but you don't want any changes when it's evident that we aren't going to win. (By win, I mean the Stanley cup)

So in a sense, maybe those of us that are calling for a change actually want to win while you want to be stuck in mediocrity...

And you talk about Luongo and his eight goals.
Do you remember when Roy was in net when he got lit up for 9 goals against (surprise surprise... Det)
He brushed past his head coach Tremblay and said he would never play for the Canadiens again.

I guess its you who don't know what you're talking about because clearly, a world class winner like Roy even wanted to be pulled.

What now bud?


Edited by CanucksJay, 27 February 2013 - 02:30 PM.

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#406 Aladeen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

You just contradicted yourself. You said the goal is to win but you don't want any changes when it's evident that we aren't going to win. (By win, I mean the Stanley cup)

So in a sense, maybe those of us that are calling for a change actually want to win while you want to be stuck in mediocrity...

Whatever, it is established you have zero hockey knowledge and that you hope your team loses so you can get some sort of pathetic satisfaction that a coach you don't like gets fired. Mediocrity is missing the playoffs year after year like the leafs, like the blue jackets. Competing is making the playoffs and giving your team a chance if you don't understand that concept there is nothing anyone can do for you.


edit: and there is not contradiciton, Sometimes no matter how hard you try to win you end up losing, but if you honestly tried and lost to a superior team or a more skilled or tougher team, you can hold your head up high.

But if someone loses on purpose, or makes it so a team loses to in some way bring about personal gain or gratification then they are beyond losers they are scum and don't deserve the money, the fame, and they deserve to be forgotten to time.

Edited by Aladeen, 27 February 2013 - 02:35 PM.

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#407 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:31 PM

Playing guys who you thinkk give you the best chance to win despite them showing for long stretches that they really don't is called playing favorites. No other way to describe it.


That's your opinion. One that I don't agree with. Nor do I agree that you have a better take on who is deserving of playing time than the Canucks' coaching staff does.

We went through this all before. You were convinced that Ballard deserved Bieksa's playing time, despite his not performing when given the chance. At the time you claimed he wasn't being given a fair shake. However, playing him more when he wasn't earning it, would have been exactly what you are panning AV for.

Bieksa's play since that time has shown the coaching staff to be correct in their assessment. Now Ballard is finally playing up to his capabilities and is being rewarded with icetime. Just as I said would happen. Is he now a favorite? What changed AV and Bones' minds about KB4, if not on-ice performance? Do you really believe that it was the departure of "favorite" Aaron Rome, or did Ballard's improvement last season make AR expendable?
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#408 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:36 PM

Whatever, it is established you have zero hockey knowledge and that you hope your team loses so you can get some sort of pathetic satisfaction that a coach you don't like gets fired. Mediocrity is missing the playoffs year after year like the leafs, like the blue jackets. Competing is making the playoffs and giving your team a chance if you don't understand that concept there is nothing anyone can do for you.


Haha... I find it super amusing when someone starts a sentence with "whatever" because that pretty much shows defeat...

Also it seems like our opinions of mediocrity differs as I view first and 2nd round defeats as mediocrity while you view bottom feeding teams like Columbus as mediocrity.

Dude, you should really try to aim higher in life. It might help.

Also you were so factual that anyone who knows hockey would know that a goalie doesn't want to get pulled even during a blow out.

Looks like Roy doesn't know hockey like you do

hahaha

Edited by CanucksJay, 27 February 2013 - 02:38 PM.

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#409 Aladeen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:55 PM

Haha... I find it super amusing when someone starts a sentence with "whatever" because that pretty much shows defeat...

Also it seems like our opinions of mediocrity differs as I view first and 2nd round defeats as mediocrity while you view bottom feeding teams like Columbus as mediocrity.

Dude, you should really try to aim higher in life. It might help.

Also you were so factual that anyone who knows hockey would know that a goalie doesn't want to get pulled even during a blow out.

Looks like Roy doesn't know hockey like you do

hahaha

Hahaha I find it super amusing that you figure Roy has anything to do with the situation at hand here. Hahahahaha its so funny that you are probably typing out your posts from your mom's basement and that you are telling me to aim higher in life. HAHAHAHAHAHA you are the one that tries to logic out that losing somehow someway equals winning... talk about low fricken standards... anyways this is the last time I respond to you anyone who wants to see their team lose is not worth anyone's time, go find a homeless person give him 5 bucks and see if he will listen to your garbage for five minutes.

"missing the playoffs = winning" - CancksJay
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#410 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:58 PM

Hahaha I find it super amusing that you figure Roy has anything to do with the situation at hand here. Hahahahaha its so funny that you are probably typing out your posts from your mom's basement and that you are telling me to aim higher in life. HAHAHAHAHAHA you are the one that tries to logic out that losing somehow someway equals winning... talk about low fricken standards... anyways this is the last time I respond to you anyone who wants to see their team lose is not worth anyone's time, go find a homeless person give him 5 bucks and see if he will listen to your garbage for five minutes.

"missing the playoffs = winning" - CancksJay


"missing the playoffs = winning" - CancksJay

haha sorry bud. I think I got you too riled up. It's just a message board...

You know you're grasping at straws when you make up quotes
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#411 brownky

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

Hahaha I find it super amusing that you figure Roy has anything to do with the situation at hand here. Hahahahaha its so funny that you are probably typing out your posts from your mom's basement and that you are telling me to aim higher in life. HAHAHAHAHAHA you are the one that tries to logic out that losing somehow someway equals winning... talk about low fricken standards... anyways this is the last time I respond to you anyone who wants to see their team lose is not worth anyone's time, go find a homeless person give him 5 bucks and see if he will listen to your garbage for five minutes.

"missing the playoffs = winning" - CancksJay


I've come to the conclusion that your only goal on these forums is to antagonize people for their own opinion, and that your aim is, essentially, trolling. Your opinions and statements are rarely if ever backed up by fact, and you spend your argument attacking the person instead of the idea.

I realize this is out of character for me to lump onto someone, but your attitude stinks. I'm not sure of your rationale for doing so outside of "for lulz", but you display a lack of maturity that would make a ten year old boy cringe.

Oh, and to veer slightly back on topic, Fire AV, he sucks, yada yada.
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#412 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:07 PM

I've come to the conclusion that your only goal on these forums is to antagonize people for their own opinion, and that your aim is, essentially, trolling. Your opinions and statements are rarely if ever backed up by fact, and you spend your argument attacking the person instead of the idea.

I realize this is out of character for me to lump onto someone, but your attitude stinks. I'm not sure of your rationale for doing so outside of "for lulz", but you display a lack of maturity that would make a ten year old boy cringe.

Oh, and to veer slightly back on topic, Fire AV, he sucks, yada yada.


I think the funny thing is that while he may be trying to troll, I think he's the one that's genuinely upset.
I can almost picture him smashing his keyboard.

Like that last comment that you quoted. It's almost like buddy is in hysterics..
It's funny when you study the composition of the paragraph, he gets angrier and angrier and goes from the argument at hand to personal insults because his brain doesn't know what to do with all that rage and emotion.

Poor guy...
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#413 snucks

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:10 PM

The REF's the root of all evil, phantom calls nightly, nice to see the promotion of NHL in America has come down to this, Canadian Teams don't stand a chance south of the boarder.

They have hated on Vancouver before but not as bad. The reffing is just awful this year and the Canucks are not liked .
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#414 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

Why are fans surprised by lack of team work, team effort and leadership? When the majority of the players have no clue what their roles are from 1 game to the next?

Goalie = coin toss
D pairings = mix and match
Top line = Sedins + Burrows or someone
Everyone else = lucky to have a line mate for more than a few games

Players job is to perform. Coaches job is to get all the players to work as a team.

After 6+ seasons, it's kind of hard to blame all the players and not question the guys in charge of ice time and telling them what to do.
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Quando omni flunkus moritati

#415 Yotes

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:29 PM

if ppl are going to continue going back and forth at eachother on a forum they should get banned, if you want to say all this useless garbage that everyone has to read, do it in a message to the person.

Dont waste every damn topic on this site, I just want to read legit hockey info/news without all the bantering and blaming
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#416 Aladeen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

I've come to the conclusion that your only goal on these forums is to antagonize people for their own opinion, and that your aim is, essentially, trolling. Your opinions and statements are rarely if ever backed up by fact, and you spend your argument attacking the person instead of the idea.

I realize this is out of character for me to lump onto someone, but your attitude stinks. I'm not sure of your rationale for doing so outside of "for lulz", but you display a lack of maturity that would make a ten year old boy cringe.

Oh, and to veer slightly back on topic, Fire AV, he sucks, yada yada.

Out of character for you? That's the only character I have ever seen exactly what have you brought to this topic? Other than to jump in now to personally attack me please show me. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of, you are pathetic, I don't even see you posting your opinion yet attack me for mine? Grow a pair and put down what you think of AV and your facts.

Here are some facts

Fact 1 - AV = winningest coach in franchise history
Fact 2 - under AV the canucks have made the playoffs 6/7 times
Fact 3 - There is no one available BETTER than AV to coach the Canucks at this time
Fact 4 - If Gillis hasn't fired him he obviously doesn't agree with these emotional AV bashers
Fact 5 - You must make the Playoffs to win the Stanley Cup
Fact 6 - The more you make the Playoffs the > the chance to win the Stanley Cup on math alone
Fact 7 - AV won the Jack Adams award and is consistantly in the running (top 10) to win it each year
Fact 8 - This is a tough league and there is a professional team on the opposite side of the ice that wants to win just as bad
Fact 9 - AV gets blamed for every loss but isn't given credit like keeping this team afloat through injuries in the past.
Fact 10 - I don't give a crap what you guys believe anymore you hate for the sake of hating and your tired whining arguments that you keep spinning in circles is pathetic, 90% of you don't even read the post you just infer it by quickly glancing at it just like this one.
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#417 Trebreh

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

tittle should be changed to 'coaching and management continue to fail'

Epic fail on MG in handling the goalie situation, his 'patient' approach will bite him in the ass when the return is not as good as he thought it would be.

Looking back now, i would've accepted Luke Shenn for Luongo, that way we get rid of Luo's salary and then trade LS for JVR or whoever.
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#418 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

Why are fans surprised by lack of team work, team effort and leadership? When the majority of the players have no clue what their roles are from 1 game to the next?

Goalie = coin toss
D pairings = mix and match
Top line = Sedins + Burrows or someone
Everyone else = lucky to have a line mate for more than a few games

Players job is to perform. Coaches job is to get all the players to work as a team.

After 6+ seasons, it's kind of hard to blame all the players and not question the guys in charge of ice time and telling them what to do.


Exactly.

AV got lucky when he threw Burrows with the Sedins. now he thinks if he just tosses players around with different partners or linemates, something will "click". By luck, he found a great, effective line in Hansen, Schroeder and Raymond. They wer fast, putting up points and defensively responsible. He broke them up!!!

There does not appear to be any analysis by AV other than everything isn't going great so it must be the lineup. Maybe it's how he is asking them to play and the fact they never know where their linemate will play because thye don't even know who their linemate will be?
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#419 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:08 PM

I maintain that what you all describe as "unmotivated" or "listless" play on the Canucks' part is in fact, the normal ebb and flow in the on-ice performance of a professional hockey team. If you look around the league, there are far more teams doing what the Canucks are doing than there are doing what the 'Hawks are doing.


I agree with this. I'd also go further in saying that I actually DON'T want Van to start busting a$$ the rest of this compressed regular season. For what? To win our 3rd Prez trophy in a row? Didn't seem to make much difference in our playoff fortunes.

All I care is that the players know when to crank it up when it counts. The regular season, for me, is just a way to enjoy hockey. And for all the so-called nights off the Canucks are taking, they're still more enjoyable to watch than at least 4/5ths of the league. (Rather cheer for playoff-perennial Nashville?)

Vigneault will be assessed, and rightfully so, after the playoffs. Daniel Sedin's injury last year gave AV an out. With a healthy squad, and a similar playoff showing this year, he WILL be out, and I, as an AV supporter, wouldn't have any problem with that.
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#420 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:20 PM

I'm a true believer in that teams will play the way they practice. I consider regular season a practice for the Canucks. For those that think the Canucks will simply flip the switch come playoffs are in for a rude awakening.
There's only 2 scenarios folks.
Either our team is not as good as we thought OR simply they are not achieving their potential.

My hope is that the problem is the latter. If our problem is scenario 1, we are in a far worse position to win a cup as that would mean we need to pull of some major trades to be in contention again.

If the problem is us not playing to our potential, then the quickest and easiest fix is to switch up the coaching.

The Canucks have become WAY too predictable in the way they play and you will see that we struggle against well coached teams. We struggle against, St Louis (Hitchcock), Det (Babcock), Chicago (Quenville), Phoenix (Tippet), Kings (Sutter). All these teams come in with a game plan because we only know how to play one way. Most of us that watch every game know exactly where the puck will go when its in our zone. I find myself already fully knowing what our players will do BEFORE they make their move to get the puck out of our zone. Well guess what? So do the other teams.

For instance, tonight, I saw the Coyotes players cheat many times to the boards just waiting for the reverse or the usual chip up the boards towards the blue line. They were there ahead of the play just waiting for a nice tape to tape pass from our d-man.

Now for those that think the playoffs will be different are in complete denial. In the playoffs, it will be even tougher against a well coached team because they know our system inside out and have 7 games to execute what they practice.

In our cup run, the Nashville series REALLY stood out to me because on paper, Nashville should have been swept by us. However, they were successfully able to shut down the Sedins and it took a beast mode solo performance from Kesler to beat them. What Kesler did in that series is NOT coachable and that's why Nashville did not have an answer for Kesler. They didn't have a game plan for the unpredictable play of Kesler (where he simply beat them with skill NOT system) where as they knew EXACTLY what to expect from the Sedins.

So, to summarize, without a coaching change or an addition of a game breaker, it should be obvious that this year will be no different from any other year.


Teams flip the switch just before the playoffs all the time. LA last year was just one of many examples.

According to their respective records, Vancouver should have beaten Nashville in 6 games. Oh, wait, that's what they did!

As for the rest of your post, you talk about Vancouver having "problems" with certain teams. Want to actually provide win-loss records for us against those teams the past two + years? (Which is the only stat that matters.)
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