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#661 Honky Cat

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:12 PM

Only reason AV is calling the refs out now and being emotional is because he knows he sucks and is running out of time. :lol:


Good thing we have you around to give us the inside scoop..
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#662 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

Any argument that suggests fear of the unknown is a valid reason to keep a coach (any coach) indefinitely. Or that there is no coach better than AV out there. Based on whose standards? All good/great coaches start somewhere, right? So is it really rational to believe that AV is the best coach anywhere in the entire hockey world and that no one else, accomplished or not in the NHL ranks, could come in and have success with this team?

Come on man. That is as irrational as it gets. There are a ton of AV supporters here who suggest just that. If you want to believe AV is responsible for the success of this team to the extent that no other coach could come in and have that level of success with this group, then it stands to reason that you must also believe that the team's sub par playoff results are also AV's responsibility.

People really can't have it both ways on that......on either side of the argument.


You don't think it's a possibility that a new coach could come in and make things worse? Really?

I suppose we have a differing definition of what is irrational and was is not...
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#663 snolan

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:01 PM

You don't think it's a possibility that a new coach could come in and make things worse? Really?

I suppose we have a differing definition of what is irrational and was is not...


Yeah but can you say that there is no possibility it would make things better? Both sides are just speculating.

The one thing I can say for removing AV (maybe not now but maybe off-season if we don't make it to the WCF or farther) is that we have nothing to lose. I don't see the team magically changing and having fires lit under their asses for AV and two failed runs in a row would prove that. At that point, what is the difference between taking a chance or losing in the 1st round?

I don't think you remove AV this year regardless though (unless we go on a 0-10 slide or something unthinkable) but there should at least be an acknowledgement that the team seems to play unmotivated. You can't really remove your whole team, and there is a point where you have to try something different instead of just ramming up against the same wall over and over.
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#664 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

Mike Gillis should look at the team and understand that their is only one common problem

Look at all the fires he had to put out in the past few seasons. The common denominator is that it's always surrounding AV

Willie Mitchell situation
Cody Hodgson situation
Ryan Kesler Situation
Keith Ballard situation
Goaltending drama

The rest of the team have no conflict with each other. They genuinely like each other.
The problem is AV created these issues when it was absolutely not necessary and MG should just axe him already. His life will get better.
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#665 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:21 PM

Yeah but can you say that there is no possibility it would make things better? Both sides are just speculating.

The one thing I can say for removing AV (maybe not now but maybe off-season if we don't make it to the WCF or farther) is that we have nothing to lose. I don't see the team magically changing and having fires lit under their asses for AV and two failed runs in a row would prove that. At that point, what is the difference between taking a chance or losing in the 1st round?

I don't think you remove AV this year regardless though (unless we go on a 0-10 slide or something unthinkable) but there should at least be an acknowledgement that the team seems to play unmotivated. You can't really remove your whole

team, and there is a point where you have to try something different instead of just ramming up against the same wall over and over.

1) Of course I can't. No-one has a crystal ball. I just happen to believe that the situation is nowhere near as bad as you think. Certainly not bad enough for a thread calling the coaching a "fail". (Nice to see that the title has changed)

2) I disagree that the past two playoff runs have "proved" anything negative about the head coach. As I have said in the past, back to back losses against the Conn Smythe winning goaltender, both times with serious injuries to core members of the team.

3) At least you believe that the off-season would be the time to look at a coaching change, barring some disasterous 2nd half. I'm pretty sure that I said this exact same thing, quite a few pages ago. However, I disagree that the team "plays unmotivated". I already pointed out that I think you and a lot of the other detractors are too close to the situation and if you look around the league, this is the kind of thing that happens to most teams in the NHL.

Edited by RUPERTKBD, 04 March 2013 - 04:25 PM.

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#666 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:24 PM

Mike Gillis should look at the team and understand that their is only one common problem

Look at all the fires he had to put out in the past few seasons. The common denominator is that it's always surrounding AV

Willie Mitchell situation
Cody Hodgson situation
Ryan Kesler Situation
Keith Ballard situation
Goaltending drama

The rest of the team have no conflict with each other. They genuinely like each other.
The problem is AV created these issues when it was absolutely not necessary and MG should just axe him already. His life will get better.


Gillis would have to look in the mirror re: Cody Hodgson as he has stated publicly that the handling of Coho was carefully mapped out by the entire coaching and management team.

And how did AV create the "goaltending drama"?
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#667 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:28 PM

Mike Gillis should look at the team and understand that their is only one common problem

Look at all the fires he had to put out in the past few seasons. The common denominator is that it's always surrounding AV

Willie Mitchell situation
Cody Hodgson situation
Ryan Kesler Situation
Keith Ballard situation
Goaltending drama

The rest of the team have no conflict with each other. They genuinely like each other.
The problem is AV created these issues when it was absolutely not necessary and MG should just axe him already. His life will get better.


Those are all Mike Gillis' calls.

Wish people would understand this already, except for the "goaltending drama", as there isnt one.

Edited by BedBeats™2.0, 04 March 2013 - 04:29 PM.

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#668 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

Only reason AV is calling the refs out now and being emotional is because he knows he sucks and is running out of time. :lol:


Hopefully.

He has done some real nice things here, but as wallstreetamigo said, things become stale, and I agree 100% that his favorites game is really not helping anymore.

We just need new motivation and new focus, we need discipline, basically just a change, hopefully MG is starting to realize this.
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#669 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:40 PM

I already pointed out that I think you and a lot of the other detractors are too close to the situation and if you look around the league, this is the kind of thing that happens to most teams in the NHL.


Bingo.

Most people here obsess about minutiae. Twenty-four hour sports-radio stations, 3 Canadian TV stations devoted solely to sports, and most of that to hockey. Papers trying to make Everests out of molehills. The result? People who can't think for themselves either parrot the overreactions of some Toronto hack who's not even clued in to the big picture, but who wants to make a name for himself as a "compelling" analyst, or some local newspaper hack who needs to sell papers in a city where the team motors along with another good-to-excellent year. (Good news doesn't sell.)

One example from the "other side". Joel Quenneville is everybody's current coaching idol, obviously. But two seasons ago they needed a Dallas loss last game of the season just to get into the playoffs. Yep, Toews was injured for a portion of the year, as was Hossa. But wallstreet mentioned that injuries are no excuse in the playoffs. Well, this was just the regular season, and Chicago was awful, at one point chalking up 9 losses in a row, at which time the fans and media were calling for his head on a platter.

So ..... did Quenneville "lose his team" but then somehow "regain" them after that season? It's putting too much cause-and-effect on the coach. Just as it's overblown, and human nature unfortunately, to pick a scapegoat whenever the team goes on a mini-skid (happens to ALL teams). If the coach is blamed, it's easy to digest psychologically, because with that one change, it's supposed that the entire team will turn around. This both flatters AV (and all coaches) as well downplays how much effect and responsibility is on the players themselves, independent of any and all coaches.
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#670 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:45 PM

2) I disagree that the past two playoff runs have "proved" anything negative about the head coach. As I have said in the past, back to back losses against the Conn Smythe winning goaltender, both times with serious injuries to core members of the team


Actually it has, as wallstreetamigo said earlier, if you want to give AV the credit for the successes then the credit must be given to him for the playoffs aswell.

The fact of the matter is, this team when we have lost, hasn't gone out and played there absolute best and just lost cause they weren't the better team, this team has choked, and failed.

So as the guy you quoted said, we really have nothing to lose, things can't get worse, this team will just continue to carry itself and be carried by the Sedins and goaltending anyways, but atleast with the change, that would light a fire under this team and would likely benefit the team if the right guy is brought in, but as he said things really can't get worse. Worst case scenerio the team continues to play like it has since the Boston game last year, and thats what we are going to get with AV anyways.
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#671 marinusw

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:47 PM

Just can't hold back any more! Tired of AV's useless decisions! Plays Raymond at centre, moves Schroeder down to the 4th, and scratches Ballard over Barker or Alberts. Is AV on drugs?
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#672 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

Gillis would have to look in the mirror re: Cody Hodgson as he has stated publicly that the handling of Coho was carefully mapped out by the entire coaching and management team.

And how did AV create the "goaltending drama"?


Gillis isn't the one who through Hodgson under the bus by claiming Hodgson used an injury as an excuse for his poor play. That severs trust between player and coach.

I said goaltending drama in reference to the recent fiasco of Leaving Lu in net for all 8 goals.
I'm ok with how he's handled the duties minus the stupid coin toss
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#673 canuck73_3

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

Gillis isn't the one who through Hodgson under the bus by claiming Hodgson used an injury as an excuse for his poor play. That severs trust between player and coach.

I said goaltending drama in reference to the recent fiasco of Leaving Lu in net for all 8 goals.
I'm ok with how he's handled the duties minus the stupid coin toss


Schneider had the flu and wasn't going in unless Luongo was injured not too hard to figure out...
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#674 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

Schneider had the flu and wasn't going in unless Luongo was injured not too hard to figure out...


Stop using calmness and logic!
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#675 Heretic

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

Mike Gillis should look at the team and understand that their is only one common problem

Look at all the fires he had to put out in the past few seasons. The common denominator is that it's always surrounding AV

Willie Mitchell situation
Cody Hodgson situation
Ryan Kesler Situation
Keith Ballard situation
Goaltending drama

The rest of the team have no conflict with each other. They genuinely like each other.
The problem is AV created these issues when it was absolutely not necessary and MG should just axe him already. His life will get better.


The problem is so called fans and media created these issues when it was absolutely not necessary...

What did AV do to create those situations and drama?
Please provide a source if you answer other than fan/media speculation.
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#676 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

Gillis isn't the one who through Hodgson under the bus by claiming Hodgson used an injury as an excuse for his poor play. That severs trust between player and coach.

I said goaltending drama in reference to the recent fiasco of Leaving Lu in net for all 8 goals.
I'm ok with how he's handled the duties minus the stupid coin toss


Thats not throwing him under the bus.

Thats speculating on AV's part. More likely than not, thru info from management.

Oh...well Lu getting perforated is a non issue. Both player and coach have stated thruout the years that it is asked of the goalie if he wants to play out the game.
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#677 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

Thats not throwing him under the bus.

Thats speculating on AV's part. More likely than not, thru info from management.

Oh...well Lu getting perforated is a non issue. Both player and coach have stated thruout the years that it is asked of the goalie if he wants to play out the game.


AV has no tact. You can try to spin this on MG but AV is the one who stood in front of the camera and said what he said.
He could have said it ANY other way. Maybe calling it as is and saying that Hodgson still needed more time to develop as his speed wasn't up to par and needs to get up the NHL game speed.

But no, we all know what AV said instead.

Its a repetitive behavior and we just saw it evidenced again with Ballard. Dressing Alberts and just saying it was their best chance to win? What does the say about Ballard?

How about something along the lines of we wanted more size against a physical and bigger LA team...

Some of AVs comments are just asinine and anyone with half a brain would address the situation differently.
it's like he enjoys the drama and being in the spotlight

Edited by CanucksJay, 04 March 2013 - 05:04 PM.

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#678 canuck73_3

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:05 PM

AV has no tact. You can try to spin this on MG but AV is the one who stood in front of the camera and said what he said.
He could have said it ANY other way. Maybe calling it as is and saying that Hodgson still needed more time to develop as his speed wasn't up to par and needs to get up the NHL game speed.

But no, we all know what AV said instead.

Its a repetitive behavior and we just saw it evidenced again with Ballard. Dressing Alberts and just saying it was their best chance to win? What does the say about Ballard?

How about something along the lines of we wanted more size against a physical and bigger LA team...

Some of AVs comments are just asinine and anyone with half a brain would address the situation differently.
it's like he enjoys the drama and being in the spotlight


Ballards a big boy he can take that and understand what AV meant, if Ballard really is that hurt by this we're better off without him because he's way to mentally fragile for the NHL.
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#679 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

Ballards a big boy he can take that and understand what AV meant, if Ballard really is that hurt by this we're better off without him because he's way to mentally fragile for the NHL.


And what did AV mean by dressing Barker AND Alberts over him the next day?
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#680 canuck73_3

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:10 PM

And what did AV mean by dressing Barker AND Alberts over him the next day?


Ask AV?
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#681 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:13 PM

Ask AV?


That's right. You had the answers to the other one like "Ballard's a big boy, he can take that and understand what AV meant"
but all of a sudden, with this highly questionable move, there is no answer.

There's no answer because it defies ALL logic.

The only explanation is MG wanted Ballard out due to an impending trade but if this was just a strategic roster move by AV, it was terrible.
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#682 UFTcan

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:14 PM

they have a bad track record:

-Mattiew schnieder (dogged into retirement)
-Cody Hodgson (your back doesnt hurt)
-Manny Malhotra (your blind you wont play here again)
-Ballard (Dogged instead of let go somehow)


Surprising the quantity of blatent lack of tack with players, and Im surprised MG hasnt received more heat for this and his lackluster dealings, also keeping Brian Burke's dog in AV still around.. Think he would want his own coaching staff picks on this team by now, AV's tenure has ran out, and still no moves.

Think MG talks a good game, but results in delivery are questionable at best.
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#683 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:17 PM

they have a bad track record:

-Mattiew schnieder (dogged into retirement)
-Cody Hodgson (your back doesnt hurt)
-Manny Malhotra (your blind you wont play here again)
-Ballard (Dogged instead of let go somehow)


Surprising the quantity of blatent lack of tack with players, and Im surprised MG hasnt received more heat for this and his lackluster dealings, also keeping Brian Burke's dog in AV still around.. Think he would want his own coaching staff picks on this team by now, AV's tenure has ran out, and still no moves.

Think MG talks a good game, but results in delivery are questionable at best.


I have trusted MG so far but if we have another early exit this year and AV doesnt get fired, I agree, MG is just as likely to blame because he put the wrong person in charge of his team and failed to do anything about it.
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#684 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:17 PM

Dressing Alberts and just saying it was their best chance to win? What does the say about Ballard?

How about something along the lines of we wanted more size against a physical and bigger LA team...

Some of AVs comments are just asinine and anyone with half a brain would address the situation differently.
it's like he enjoys the drama and being in the spotlight


The best chance to win was to combat LA with a bigger d-corps. He did so. The comments dont hide that. You are looking for something that is not there.

One of the criticisms about AV is that he airs out player critique to the press. Complete non-issue. For one, he has been right whenever (and seriously, its less than 10 times in his time here) he has commented (though i do agree about the CoHo thing, that could have been kept between management and agent), and another; there are more coaches that people covet here that are faaaaaaaarrrrrr more forthcoming and jerkheaded about calling out their players.

The answer to the AV-detractors, Lindy Ruff, was a superstar at that.

You hear what Sutter had said about LA between periods?!

Makes any old AV comment seem tame in comparison.
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#685 canuck73_3

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:20 PM

That's right. You had the answers to the other one like "Ballard's a big boy, he can take that and understand what AV meant"
but all of a sudden, with this highly questionable move, there is no answer.

There's no answer because it defies ALL logic.

The only explanation is MG wanted Ballard out due to an impending trade but if this was just a strategic roster move by AV, it was terrible.


There's no answer because non of us were there for the decision, do you seriously believe AV makes this decision on his own? Watch 24/7 Pittsburgh-Washington, coaches have meetings together and as a unit decide on personnal for the game it's not like AV is alone in the decision process.
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#686 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:20 PM

The best chance to win was to combat LA with a bigger d-corps. He did so. The comments dont hide that. You are looking for something that is not there.

One of the criticisms about AV is that he airs out player critique to the press. Complete non-issue. For one, he has been right whenever (and seriously, its less than 10 times in his time here) he has commented (though i do agree about the CoHo thing, that could have been kept between management and agent), and another; there are more coaches that people covet here that are faaaaaaaarrrrrr more forthcoming and jerkheaded about calling out their players.

The answer to the AV-detractors, Lindy Ruff, was a superstar at that.

You hear what Sutter had said about LA between periods?!

Makes any old AV comment seem tame in comparison.


This would be understandable if size was the sole reason Alberts was in over Ballard for the Kings game
How about the next game against a soft Flames team that Ballard is much better suited for?
Why Alberts and Barker over Ballard?
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#687 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

Ask AV?


Ask Gillis.

Im a big Bally fan, but was very suprised at how well Barker played. Im happy for him.

One game isnt enough to have a solid opinion, but i am sure Barker and Albie are competing for a spot.

I really believe that we will have a new center coming our way. And Bally will be a centerpiece for a deal.

Many teams right now badly need a d-man with Bally's skillset.
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#688 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:25 PM

There's no answer because non of us were there for the decision, do you seriously believe AV makes this decision on his own? Watch 24/7 Pittsburgh-Washington, coaches have meetings together and as a unit decide on personnal for the game it's not like AV is alone in the decision process.

I just want your honest opinion...

Do you think that dressing Alberts and Barker over Ballard against the Flames was a poor decision?
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#689 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

Ask Gillis.

Im a big Bally fan, but was very suprised at how well Barker played. Im happy for him.

One game isnt enough to have a solid opinion, but i am sure Barker and Albie are competing for a spot.

I really believe that we will have a new center coming our way. And Bally will be a centerpiece for a deal.

Many teams right now badly need a d-man with Bally's skillset.


I think and hope that this is the scenario because otherwise, there is no logic to our coaching staff
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#690 canuck73_3

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:27 PM

I just want your honest opinion...

Do you think that dressing Alberts and Barker over Ballard against the Flames was a poor decision?


I honestly don't have all the facts, as someone who's not with the team I'm not qualified to talk about personnal decisions and neither are you. Hindsight Barker played well I really think this has been blown out of proportion by CDC yet again.
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credit to canuckforever00 for the sig :)

RIP Luc Bourdon




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