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Do you think it is time for a political change in B.C.?


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#31 taxi

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:16 AM

Will you be disappointed if the voting goes the way of the polls? Will you accept the new government as yours, chosen by the people?


The polls are heavily skewed in this case. Most peolpe who want change are going to be vocal about it. Most people who don't are reluctantly accepting the Liberals due to a lack of other viable alternatives. People who reluctantly accept a position aren't going to run out to the polls, which don't count for anything.

Edit: Also Adrian Dix was a baaaaaddd choice for leader of the NDP party. Given his history of fraud, he should never have participated in politics again. Shocking that the NDP could not find a better candidate than Clark in their ranks.

Edited by taxi, 26 February 2013 - 10:20 AM.

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#32 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

Prediction: NDP comes in. There's another scandal sooner rather than later. And then they're back out again.

Ho-hum.
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#33 J.R.

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:46 AM

I'd say the NDP are the lesser of the two evils.
It'll be a 2 horse race in the election (NDP, Libs), voting for another party will be throwing your vote away or like not voting at all.


It's only a two horse race because ignorant people continue to falsely believe in this line of thinking.

It probably is time for a change, but not to the NDP...

A real change IMO, *might* only happen in the event that neither the B.C. Lieberals or the NDP are elected.

There's just too much baggage with both parties.

Of course the question is whether a party that doesn't have a bunch of corrupt power brokers behind it would be able to get anywhere or do anything in this dirty, dirty province.


Indeed. I wish people would smarten up and realize the best message to send to both parties is to not vote for EITHER of them.
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#34 Langdon Algur

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:13 AM

agree Dix wasn't the best choice of leader, although don't beleive everything you see in an attack ad Taxi.

In response the OP's question, yes the Liberials need to go!!
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#35 Magikal

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:32 AM

Liberals need to be removed, the are an insult to our electoral process at this point. NDP are the apparent lesser of the 3 evils in this case (Libs Cons, NDP) but everyone is in bed with someone these days. At least the NDP are in bed with the unions as opposed to big corporations and banks.
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#36 Heretic

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

Absolutely not. The NDP would be, and always are, a disaster.


Agree with that - even though I've been away from this Province for the past 13 years...

I can't believe the NDPis leading the polls...
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#37 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

I'd say the NDP are the lesser of the two evils.
It'll be a 2 horse race in the election (NDP, Libs), voting for another party will be throwing your vote away or like not voting at all.

History does not bear that out.
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#38 J.R.

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:56 AM

History does not bear that out.


Evidently the general public needs a refresher. Hopefully it only last a couple years.
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#39 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

The polls are heavily skewed in this case. Most peolpe who want change are going to be vocal about it. Most people who don't are reluctantly accepting the Liberals due to a lack of other viable alternatives. People who reluctantly accept a position aren't going to run out to the polls, which don't count for anything.

Edit: Also Adrian Dix was a baaaaaddd choice for leader of the NDP party. Given his history of fraud, he should never have participated in politics again. Shocking that the NDP could not find a better candidate than Clark in their ranks.

If you liked Glen Clark you are going to love Adrian Dix. ::D
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#40 taxi

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:17 PM

agree Dix wasn't the best choice of leader, although don't beleive everything you see in an attack ad Taxi.

In response the OP's question, yes the Liberials need to go!!


The guy got busted forging a document. Then he collected severance after getting fired. I know it was a while ago now, but, after a scandle like that, he should be done from politics. It has nothing to do with attack ads. I don't watch much network TV, and have never seen one of these attack ads.

Awful choice for the NDP, which is a party trying to fight an image tarnished by a history of previous scandles.
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#41 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:36 PM

agree Dix wasn't the best choice of leader, although don't beleive everything you see in an attack ad Taxi.

In response the OP's question, yes the Liberials need to go!!

And replace them with the BC NDP??? Truly a scary thought.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. ~ George Santayana

And in this case there is so much BC NDP history to remember and not in a good way.

In this case the "attack ad" is accurate (forged a document to try to give Glen Clark cover during a police investigation). Dix admitted to committing fraud and forgery as well as attempting to obstruct justice - so it seems to me that more than supports the "attack ad".

Dix's position - It was a mistake. Ya think? Or is it only a mistake because you got caught and were forced to resign (albeit with a nice severance package courtesy of the BC taxpayers) along with his boss Glen Clark.

And there is so much more that Dix and the BC NDP was involved in.

The NDP has history of financial shenanigans and breaking the law going back to illegal party financing managed by a former NDP finance Minister, Dave Stupich (aka Bingogate - at least Mike Harcourt had the good graces to fall on his sword for that - of course with a push from behind by Clark, Sihota and Dix) - BTW Stupich went to jail and the BC NDP was also found guilty, then there was Casinogate where Dix tried to derail both a police investigation and conflict of interest investigation by forging a document and Clark tried to get Farnworth to lie for him on his involvement, the Raiwind power scandal (Hydrogate) run by NDP insider John Laxton that had Dix's fingerprints all over it, Dix running the NDP's legally prohibited campaigning during recall attempts and Dix on Clark's behalf applying unlawful pressure on the chair of the ALR to try to get land released.

Dix has played fast and loose with the law in a number of circumstances. I set it out in detail in the past:
http://forum.canucks...0#entry11036044

Vaughn Palmer of the Vancouver Sun notes that Adrian Dix's ethical lapses are not limited to fraudulent memos.
  • Dix slithered around the laws regarding recall campaigns - and that law was passed by the BC NDP.
  • Pulling the Six Mile Ranch out of the ALR - Dix was dispatched on behalf of Glen Clark to try to pressure the Chair of the ALR which is supposedly an independent tribunal - again established by the NDP. The Chair of the ALR called for a public inquiry - that was ignored by the NDP government.
  • The BC Hydro/ Raiwind Power Project tax dodge - Dix attended the meetings on behalf of Glen Clark when the scheme was hatched but we are supposed to believe that nothing was known of this by the Premier? BC Hydro John Laxton fell on his sword as result.
So in summary this "attack ad" does not only appear to be accurate but it does not even begin to scratch the surface of Dix's illegal and unethical past behaviour which also includes his piloting of the election campaign of Glen Clark's notorious fudge-it budgets. And the person with his hand in those past fudge-it budgets was none other than Adrian Dix. He was not only Premier Clark's chief of staff but was also the deputy minister when Clark was finance minister so pretty hard to claim he did not know what was going on. It was discovered after the election, that the balanced budgets for the 1995-96 and 1996-97 fiscal years on which Clark had campaigned were not, in fact, balanced but actually deficits. And that there had also been an accounting sleight of hand that was undisclosed at the time of the election whereby the Clark government took a large amount of debt and shifted it onto Crown Corporations so as to create a perception of "surpluses".

If you liked Glen Clark you are going to love Adrian Dix (aka Glen Clark V.2.0). As Michael Smyth writes -

Meet the new NDP boss - same as the old NDP boss?

History seems to be repeating itself as Adrian Dix follows Glen Clark's example

http://www.theprovin...l#ixzz2Lrw9Xo4O

The BC NDP can attempt to throw dust and dirt but the fact remains in the case of the BC NDP - been there, done that and much worse... and one of the central players in those past shenanigans now leads the party. IMHO Adrian Dix has not changed his spots but he is much better at camouflage these days.

As Vaughn Palmer concludes about Adrian Dix's professed change of heart:


In the darkest hour of his political life, Clark fell back on Dix. The police had raided his home. He stood accused of favouring a friend's application for a casino licence. And there was Clark, brandishing a memo over Dix's signature, saying the premier had ordered him to ensure he was insulated from the licensing decision.


The notorious memo to file. Only later did it come out that the document was in several respects bogus. Typed up months after the order was supposedly given. False dated by Dix himself, who wound back the premier's official date stamp with all the craft of a used-car dealer tackling an odometer.


"A mistake," Dix says today, and professes to have learned from it.


Doubtless, he'll never get caught doing anything as sneaky as that again.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=faceb1c9-761f-4bcb-a2c3-e002230f2521&k=8094
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#42 vavoom

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:52 PM

It is such a gloomy prospect to have NDP back in power. And I do think it is time to take a break from the liberals. However, there doesn't appear to be a viable alternative at this point. I do wish that the electoral reform that the liberals put forward a few years ago passed. At least it would be easier for a 3rd party to develop a support over time.
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#43 Common sense

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:54 PM

Liberals need to be removed, the are an insult to our electoral process at this point. NDP are the apparent lesser of the 3 evils in this case (Libs Cons, NDP) but everyone is in bed with someone these days. At least the NDP are in bed with the unions as opposed to big corporations and banks.


Because union bosses are there for the people. Right... :frantic:
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#44 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

It is such a gloomy prospect to have NDP back in power. And I do think it is time to take a break from the liberals. However, there doesn't appear to be a viable alternative at this point. I do wish that the electoral reform that the liberals put forward a few years ago passed. At least it would be easier for a 3rd party to develop a support over time.

That was rejected by the BC voters in province-wide referenda - twice. The electoral changes were pushed by the BC Liberals and in particular Gordon Campbell who for years had advocated electoral reform.

This Campbell position was long before the BC NDP win in the 1996 BC General election when the Clark led Dippers won a majority of seats - 39 NDP, 33 Liberals, 2 Reform and 1 Progressive Democrat despite the BC Liberals winning the popular vote:

BC NDP - 624,395 votes - 39.45%
BC Liberals - 661,929 - 41.82%

Of course the BC NDP were understandably not wildly in favour of electoral reform as the FPTP system worked for them.
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#45 Electro Rock

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:33 PM

I'll always remember how the provincial NDP in the '90s managed to screw up what had previouly been the best economy in Canada, during booming global times. I'd hate to see them gain power now....
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#46 thedestroyerofworlds

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

I'll always remember how the provincial NDP in the '90s managed to screw up what had previouly been the best economy in Canada, during booming global times. I'd hate to see them gain power now....


That's because they really didn't. It's been estimated that 70 % of B.C.'s economy is directly or indirectly tied to activities in the interior and northern B.C. with much of that activity resource based. During the 90's, commoties such as coal, oil, gold saw prices stagnate or fall, to the point that the coal mines in Tumbler Ridge closed down. In the 2000's, those prices rebounded big time. The mines in Tumbler reopened or will reopen. I have a friend who works at one of the mines in Tumbler, and when there was a recent small drop in the price, management went ape, cancelling the Xmas party. It wasn't the new Liberal Government that reopened the mines, it was the prices.

So what kind of effect did stagnant/dropped prices have on many resource industries in BC during the 90's and by extension the BC economy/government finances????? Stuff that the NDP had no real hand in. Less production, expansion, exploration means less $$$$$$$ in the economy. simple
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#47 Electro Rock

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

That's because they really didn't. It's been estimated that 70 % of B.C.'s economy is directly or indirectly tied to activities in the interior and northern B.C. with much of that activity resource based. During the 90's, commoties such as coal, oil, gold saw prices stagnate or fall, to the point that the coal mines in Tumbler Ridge closed down. In the 2000's, those prices rebounded big time. The mines in Tumbler reopened or will reopen. I have a friend who works at one of the mines in Tumbler, and when there was a recent small drop in the price, management went ape, cancelling the Xmas party. It wasn't the new Liberal Government that reopened the mines, it was the prices.

So what kind of effect did stagnant/dropped prices have on many resource industries in BC during the 90's and by extension the BC economy/government finances????? Stuff that the NDP had no real hand in. Less production, expansion, exploration means less $$$$$$$ in the economy. simple


Yet we saw the rest of the West Coast boom, notably including Washington state which was not only effected by low commodity prices also but had its biggest city suffering from 20 years worth of decline at the beginning of the decade.

While the NDP was busy blowing money on boondoggles like the Fast Ferries and chasing an incredible amont of business away, these other places managed to come from behind and leave us in the dust.
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#48 bolt

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

msp constanlty going up every year, hst debacle, taxes going up, highest debt levels ever, high tuition rates, bc rail criminal investigation, tolls, highest poverty rate in history ect....

yeah they really deserve to be re-elected. a message needs to be sent. The last time i checked I'm probably paying a couple thousand dollars more in taxes and fees thanks to this great party. They are the worst of both worlds higher taxes and mismanagement

Edited by bolt, 26 February 2013 - 03:16 PM.

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#49 taxi

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:13 PM

msp constanlty going up every year, hst debacle, taxes going up, highest debt levels ever, high tuition rates, bc rail criminal investigation, tolls, highest poverty rate in history ect....

yeah they really deserve to be re-elected. a message needs to be sent. The last time i checked I'm probably paying a couple thousand dollars more in taxes and fees thanks to this great party. They are the worst of both worlds higher taxes and mismanagement


Are you voting for the NDP out of spite or because you feel they will actually solve the budget problem?

The problem in BC is that many our industries have tanked, which decreases revenues, but people continue to make the same or greater demands. Within your own post you are insisting on lower taxes and lower tuition/MSP payments. The two don't really jive.
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#50 canucks since 77

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

Go Green. Slinks out quietly.
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#51 Common sense

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:22 PM

msp constanlty going up every year, hst debacle, taxes going up, highest debt levels ever, high tuition rates, bc rail criminal investigation, tolls, highest poverty rate in history ect....

yeah they really deserve to be re-elected. a message needs to be sent. The last time i checked I'm probably paying a couple thousand dollars more in taxes and fees thanks to this great party. They are the worst of both worlds higher taxes and mismanagement


And what exactly makes you think the NDP will be fiscally better? Like taxi said, are you voting out of spite, or are you voting because you think that the Official Opposition actually is a better choice (to which i say HA)?
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#52 ronthecivil

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

And what exactly makes you think the NDP will be fiscally better? Like taxi said, are you voting out of spite, or are you voting because you think that the Official Opposition actually is a better choice (to which i say HA)?


You want us to vote for the Hell's Angles?

Actually, given a choice between them and the NDP I am not so sure who I would go with.....
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#53 Common sense

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:17 PM

You want us to vote for the Hell's Angles?

Actually, given a choice between them and the NDP I am not so sure who I would go with.....


The Hell's Angels without a doubt - at least they don't hide the fact that they are criminals.
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#54 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

If by polictical change you mean getting people in Victoria that actually know what they are doing, then of course we need a change.

Correction, the BC Liberals do know what they are doing. They are flushing this province down the toilet with millions of wasted dollars, corruption and a complete ineptitude that makes me shutter when ever I see Christy Clark pretending to be BC Premier.
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#55 heysoulsisters21

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:36 PM

70% voters say liberals are going down so there has to be change
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#56 MANGO

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:52 PM

Government/Law/Medicine....three things that have become so large and bloated that they cease to perform the function that they were designed to perform.
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#57 Harbinger

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:04 PM

I am just adding that when I say does the province need a political change. I don't mean does it need to become NDP. I mean do people just think it needs another direction and vision. Be it the liberals changing, the NDP, the green party or even becoming socially and economically conservative. My question is more a generality of what you feel about how the province is evolving politically
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#58 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

The Hell's Angels without a doubt - at least they don't hide the fact that they are criminals.

Actually they do. They insist that they are motorcycle enthusiasts. ::D
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#59 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:15 PM

I am just adding that when I say does the province need a political change. I don't mean does it need to become NDP. I mean do people just think it needs another direction and vision. Be it the liberals changing, the NDP, the green party or even becoming socially and economically conservative. My question is more a generality of what you feel about how the province is evolving politically


The province doesn't need to be led by any one particular party. We need a group of people with honsety, vision and a clear plan for the future. So that automatically eliminates the BC Liberals. That party has been hi jacked by so much scandal, anything short of a complete fumigation of that entire party will not flush out the corruption.
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#60 UFTcan

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:05 PM

No the system is broken, we cater to immigrants too much and no political party has the backbone enough to say the realities of the situation for fear of turning an ethnic vote.

We didnt even elect christy clark..

Every mandate changes after 4-8 years lacking long term goals and real follow through.

Theres no accountability

BROKEN
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