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Slightly worse but yes, practically the same. Is that a good thing? Typically an elite goaltender's stats will improve in the playoffs, not decline.

Think of it this way, 700+ regular season games compared to 61 in the playoffs and his numbers are practically the same. Aren't stats usually better in a small sample size (comparatively)? Also, if you remove Luongo's 1 excellent playoff in 2007 those playoff stats wouldn't even be close to the same as his regular season career.

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Also a goalie. Can you break down from a goalie perspective what leads you to believe that Luongo is not a great goalie? I don't want a list of bad games or some nonsense that he was the reason we didn't win the cup. Fundamentally how has he degenerated in your "expert" opinion?

Just a word of caution before you proceed. Johnny Bower thinks Luongo is easily in the top 50 of all-time. Also, because stats can be taken out of context to attempt to prove what we want, let's refrain from using small sample sizes and just stick to overall stats:

Luongo is a two-time NHL Second All-Star (2004 and 2007) and a winner of the William M. Jennings Trophy for backstopping his team to the lowest goals-against average in the league (2011; with backup Cory Schneider). He has additionally been a finalist for the Vezina Trophy as the league's best goaltender (2004, 2007 and 2011), the Lester B. Pearson Award as the top player voted by his peers (2004 and 2007) and the Hart Memorial Trophy as the league's most valuable player (2007).

Internationally, Luongo won a silver medal at the 1999 World Junior Championships, while being named Best Goaltender in his second tournament appearance. Luongo has won two gold medals at the 2003 and 2004 World Championships and a silver in the 2005 World Championships. He also won the 2004 World Cup championship and appeared in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin as a backup to Martin Brodeur in both instances. He succeeded Brodeur as Canada's starting goaltender during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, winning a gold medal.

NHL totals 727 339 283 33 50 41689 1749 60 2.52 .919

NHL totals 59 32 27 3599 150 5. 2.50 1804 .917

Most shots faced in a single season – 2,488 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 2,475 in 2003–04)[183]

Most shots faced in a single playoff game – 76 on April 11, 2007[69]

Most home games played in a single season – 41 in 2006–07

Most regular season overtime wins, all-time – 49 (as of 2008–09)

Florida Panthers

Longest shutout streak – 144:51 minutes in 2002–03[39]

Most shutouts in a season – 7 in 2003–04 (surpassed himself, six shutouts in 2002–03; tied with Tomáš Vokoun, 2009–10)[38]

Most wins in a season – 35 in 2005–06 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 27 wins in 1996–97)[51]

Most games played in a season – 75 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 72 games played in 2003–04)[184]

Most games played all-time – 318[185]

Most wins all-time – 108 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 106 wins)[49]

Most shutouts all-time – 26 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 13 shutouts)[186]

Vancouver Canucks

Most saves in a single game – 72 on April 11, 2007[69]

Longest shutout streak – 242:36 minutes (2008–09) (surpassed himself, 184:20 minutes in 2007–08)[72][79]

Most wins in a season – 47 in 2006–07 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 38 in 1991–92)[64]

Most games played in a season – 75 in 2006–07 (surpassed Gary Smith, 72 in 1974–75)[187]

Most shutouts in a season – 9 in 2008–09 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 7 in 2001–02)[86]

Lowest GAA in a season - 2.11 in 2010–11 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 2.27 in 2003–04)[115]

Most shutouts all-time – 33 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 20)[99]

Most wins all-time - 224 (after end of 2011-2012 season; surpassed Kirk McLean, 211)[188]

I am very much looking forward to your already predictable response sir.

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Also a goalie. Can you break down from a goalie perspective what leads you to believe that Luongo is not a great goalie? I don't want a list of bad games or some nonsense that he was the reason we didn't win the cup. Fundamentally how has he degenerated in your "expert" opinion?

Just a word of caution before you proceed. Johnny Bower thinks Luongo is easily in the top 50 of all-time. Also, because stats can be taken out of context to attempt to prove what we want, let's refrain from using small sample sizes and just stick to overall stats:

Luongo is a two-time NHL Second All-Star (2004 and 2007) and a winner of the William M. Jennings Trophy for backstopping his team to the lowest goals-against average in the league (2011; with backup Cory Schneider). He has additionally been a finalist for the Vezina Trophy as the league's best goaltender (2004, 2007 and 2011), the Lester B. Pearson Award as the top player voted by his peers (2004 and 2007) and the Hart Memorial Trophy as the league's most valuable player (2007).

Internationally, Luongo won a silver medal at the 1999 World Junior Championships, while being named Best Goaltender in his second tournament appearance. Luongo has won two gold medals at the 2003 and 2004 World Championships and a silver in the 2005 World Championships. He also won the 2004 World Cup championship and appeared in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin as a backup to Martin Brodeur in both instances. He succeeded Brodeur as Canada's starting goaltender during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, winning a gold medal.

NHL totals 727 339 283 33 50 41689 1749 60 2.52 .919

NHL totals 59 32 27 3599 150 5. 2.50 1804 .917

Most shots faced in a single season – 2,488 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 2,475 in 2003–04)[183]

Most shots faced in a single playoff game – 76 on April 11, 2007[69]

Most home games played in a single season – 41 in 2006–07

Most regular season overtime wins, all-time – 49 (as of 2008–09)

Florida Panthers

Longest shutout streak – 144:51 minutes in 2002–03[39]

Most shutouts in a season – 7 in 2003–04 (surpassed himself, six shutouts in 2002–03; tied with Tomáš Vokoun, 2009–10)[38]

Most wins in a season – 35 in 2005–06 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 27 wins in 1996–97)[51]

Most games played in a season – 75 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 72 games played in 2003–04)[184]

Most games played all-time – 318[185]

Most wins all-time – 108 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 106 wins)[49]

Most shutouts all-time – 26 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 13 shutouts)[186]

Vancouver Canucks

Most saves in a single game – 72 on April 11, 2007[69]

Longest shutout streak – 242:36 minutes (2008–09) (surpassed himself, 184:20 minutes in 2007–08)[72][79]

Most wins in a season – 47 in 2006–07 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 38 in 1991–92)[64]

Most games played in a season – 75 in 2006–07 (surpassed Gary Smith, 72 in 1974–75)[187]

Most shutouts in a season – 9 in 2008–09 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 7 in 2001–02)[86]

Lowest GAA in a season - 2.11 in 2010–11 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 2.27 in 2003–04)[115]

Most shutouts all-time – 33 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 20)[99]

Most wins all-time - 224 (after end of 2011-2012 season; surpassed Kirk McLean, 211)[188]

I am very much looking forward to your already predictable response sir.

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Typically they'll improve. I'd be curious to see anything to back up the claim of that being "typical".

and no stats aren't necessarily better in a smaller sample size.

Also It wasn't JR's book it was Sandersons book Smurf was talking about. My bad but it was in the thread about JR's book.

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If Gillis is gonna trade Schneider he better do it quickly. Any team giving up a lot for him is gonna wanna have him for a couple years at 4 million. He would hold a lot more value if he was an RFA at the end of his contract but he's not. Any team who acquires him has no guarantee hell resign. If we decide were gonna keep him then they better move Lu before he gets fed up with our team and leaves for nothing. There's just too many goalies available to make either lu or Cory fetch a ransom. I think the faster MG moves on a trade the better off well be.

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Guest Dasein

Also a goalie. Can you break down from a goalie perspective what leads you to believe that Luongo is not a great goalie? I don't want a list of bad games or some nonsense that he was the reason we didn't win the cup. Fundamentally how has he degenerated in your "expert" opinion?

Just a word of caution before you proceed. Johnny Bower thinks Luongo is easily in the top 50 of all-time. Also, because stats can be taken out of context to attempt to prove what we want, let's refrain from using small sample sizes and just stick to overall stats:

Luongo is a two-time NHL Second All-Star (2004 and 2007) and a winner of the William M. Jennings Trophy for backstopping his team to the lowest goals-against average in the league (2011; with backup Cory Schneider). He has additionally been a finalist for the Vezina Trophy as the league's best goaltender (2004, 2007 and 2011), the Lester B. Pearson Award as the top player voted by his peers (2004 and 2007) and the Hart Memorial Trophy as the league's most valuable player (2007).

Internationally, Luongo won a silver medal at the 1999 World Junior Championships, while being named Best Goaltender in his second tournament appearance. Luongo has won two gold medals at the 2003 and 2004 World Championships and a silver in the 2005 World Championships. He also won the 2004 World Cup championship and appeared in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin as a backup to Martin Brodeur in both instances. He succeeded Brodeur as Canada's starting goaltender during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, winning a gold medal.

NHL totals 727 339 283 33 50 41689 1749 60 2.52 .919

NHL totals 59 32 27 3599 150 5. 2.50 1804 .917

Most shots faced in a single season – 2,488 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 2,475 in 2003–04)[183]

Most shots faced in a single playoff game – 76 on April 11, 2007[69]

Most home games played in a single season – 41 in 2006–07

Most regular season overtime wins, all-time – 49 (as of 2008–09)

Florida Panthers

Longest shutout streak – 144:51 minutes in 2002–03[39]

Most shutouts in a season – 7 in 2003–04 (surpassed himself, six shutouts in 2002–03; tied with Tomáš Vokoun, 2009–10)[38]

Most wins in a season – 35 in 2005–06 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 27 wins in 1996–97)[51]

Most games played in a season – 75 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 72 games played in 2003–04)[184]

Most games played all-time – 318[185]

Most wins all-time – 108 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 106 wins)[49]

Most shutouts all-time – 26 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 13 shutouts)[186]

Vancouver Canucks

Most saves in a single game – 72 on April 11, 2007[69]

Longest shutout streak – 242:36 minutes (2008–09) (surpassed himself, 184:20 minutes in 2007–08)[72][79]

Most wins in a season – 47 in 2006–07 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 38 in 1991–92)[64]

Most games played in a season – 75 in 2006–07 (surpassed Gary Smith, 72 in 1974–75)[187]

Most shutouts in a season – 9 in 2008–09 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 7 in 2001–02)[86]

Lowest GAA in a season - 2.11 in 2010–11 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 2.27 in 2003–04)[115]

Most shutouts all-time – 33 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 20)[99]

Most wins all-time - 224 (after end of 2011-2012 season; surpassed Kirk McLean, 211)[188]

I am very much looking forward to your already predictable response sir.

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Well have a look at the career stats of current and former elite goaltenders. I'm sure if you do you'll notice that their overall playoff stats are at least a little better compared to their regular season career.

Your'e right, stats aren't necessarily better in a sample size but they quite often are (one of the knocks on Cory Schneider).

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Slightly worse but yes, practically the same. Is that a good thing? Typically an elite goaltender's stats will improve in the playoffs, not decline.

Think of it this way, 700+ regular season games compared to 61 in the playoffs and his numbers are practically the same. Aren't stats usually better in a small sample size (comparatively)? Also, if you remove Luongo's 1 excellent playoff in 2007 those playoff stats wouldn't even be close to the same as his regular season career.

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Yeah I would say with a lot of those guys you see slight differences. Broduer, Roy Hasek all have slightly better stats but if we're talking about slight statistical changes between the regular season and the playoffs I not sure the strength of that argument especially when this all started when you were trying to disregard somebody who was talking about what Luongo gives us in the regular season.

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So, to sum up the last few pages: some people have an opinion and others have another. They don't always match but rather clash, and people who seem to be equally qualified as goalies are on either side, along with others of varying hockey knowledge. We'll get along fine without having to agree.

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Translation = If I am not allowed to make up my own facts then I can't possibly argue my point. Thank you for proving yourself as nothing but another blowhard.

Should have thought about the "waste of time" before you shared your drivel in the first place.

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So, to sum up the last few pages: some people have an opinion and others have another. They don't always match but rather clash, and people who seem to be equally qualified as goalies are on either side, along with others of varying hockey knowledge. We'll get along fine without having to agree.

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