EmployeeoftheMonth Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Slightly worse but yes, practically the same. Is that a good thing? Typically an elite goaltender's stats will improve in the playoffs, not decline. Think of it this way, 700+ regular season games compared to 61 in the playoffs and his numbers are practically the same. Aren't stats usually better in a small sample size (comparatively)? Also, if you remove Luongo's 1 excellent playoff in 2007 those playoff stats wouldn't even be close to the same as his regular season career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguez Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The difference here sir..is that Riviera and I were both goalies and as such have a far better understanding than most on this site, but do tell, what is the main point in your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Also a goalie. Can you break down from a goalie perspective what leads you to believe that Luongo is not a great goalie? I don't want a list of bad games or some nonsense that he was the reason we didn't win the cup. Fundamentally how has he degenerated in your "expert" opinion? Just a word of caution before you proceed. Johnny Bower thinks Luongo is easily in the top 50 of all-time. Also, because stats can be taken out of context to attempt to prove what we want, let's refrain from using small sample sizes and just stick to overall stats: Luongo is a two-time NHL Second All-Star (2004 and 2007) and a winner of the William M. Jennings Trophy for backstopping his team to the lowest goals-against average in the league (2011; with backup Cory Schneider). He has additionally been a finalist for the Vezina Trophy as the league's best goaltender (2004, 2007 and 2011), the Lester B. Pearson Award as the top player voted by his peers (2004 and 2007) and the Hart Memorial Trophy as the league's most valuable player (2007). Internationally, Luongo won a silver medal at the 1999 World Junior Championships, while being named Best Goaltender in his second tournament appearance. Luongo has won two gold medals at the 2003 and 2004 World Championships and a silver in the 2005 World Championships. He also won the 2004 World Cup championship and appeared in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin as a backup to Martin Brodeur in both instances. He succeeded Brodeur as Canada's starting goaltender during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, winning a gold medal. NHL totals 727 339 283 33 50 41689 1749 60 2.52 .919 NHL totals 59 32 27 3599 150 5. 2.50 1804 .917 Most shots faced in a single season – 2,488 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 2,475 in 2003–04)[183] Most shots faced in a single playoff game – 76 on April 11, 2007[69] Most home games played in a single season – 41 in 2006–07 Most regular season overtime wins, all-time – 49 (as of 2008–09) Florida Panthers Longest shutout streak – 144:51 minutes in 2002–03[39] Most shutouts in a season – 7 in 2003–04 (surpassed himself, six shutouts in 2002–03; tied with Tomáš Vokoun, 2009–10)[38] Most wins in a season – 35 in 2005–06 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 27 wins in 1996–97)[51] Most games played in a season – 75 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 72 games played in 2003–04)[184] Most games played all-time – 318[185] Most wins all-time – 108 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 106 wins)[49] Most shutouts all-time – 26 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 13 shutouts)[186] Vancouver Canucks Most saves in a single game – 72 on April 11, 2007[69] Longest shutout streak – 242:36 minutes (2008–09) (surpassed himself, 184:20 minutes in 2007–08)[72][79] Most wins in a season – 47 in 2006–07 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 38 in 1991–92)[64] Most games played in a season – 75 in 2006–07 (surpassed Gary Smith, 72 in 1974–75)[187] Most shutouts in a season – 9 in 2008–09 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 7 in 2001–02)[86] Lowest GAA in a season - 2.11 in 2010–11 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 2.27 in 2003–04)[115] Most shutouts all-time – 33 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 20)[99] Most wins all-time - 224 (after end of 2011-2012 season; surpassed Kirk McLean, 211)[188] I am very much looking forward to your already predictable response sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Also a goalie. Can you break down from a goalie perspective what leads you to believe that Luongo is not a great goalie? I don't want a list of bad games or some nonsense that he was the reason we didn't win the cup. Fundamentally how has he degenerated in your "expert" opinion? Just a word of caution before you proceed. Johnny Bower thinks Luongo is easily in the top 50 of all-time. Also, because stats can be taken out of context to attempt to prove what we want, let's refrain from using small sample sizes and just stick to overall stats: Luongo is a two-time NHL Second All-Star (2004 and 2007) and a winner of the William M. Jennings Trophy for backstopping his team to the lowest goals-against average in the league (2011; with backup Cory Schneider). He has additionally been a finalist for the Vezina Trophy as the league's best goaltender (2004, 2007 and 2011), the Lester B. Pearson Award as the top player voted by his peers (2004 and 2007) and the Hart Memorial Trophy as the league's most valuable player (2007). Internationally, Luongo won a silver medal at the 1999 World Junior Championships, while being named Best Goaltender in his second tournament appearance. Luongo has won two gold medals at the 2003 and 2004 World Championships and a silver in the 2005 World Championships. He also won the 2004 World Cup championship and appeared in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin as a backup to Martin Brodeur in both instances. He succeeded Brodeur as Canada's starting goaltender during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, winning a gold medal. NHL totals 727 339 283 33 50 41689 1749 60 2.52 .919 NHL totals 59 32 27 3599 150 5. 2.50 1804 .917 Most shots faced in a single season – 2,488 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 2,475 in 2003–04)[183] Most shots faced in a single playoff game – 76 on April 11, 2007[69] Most home games played in a single season – 41 in 2006–07 Most regular season overtime wins, all-time – 49 (as of 2008–09) Florida Panthers Longest shutout streak – 144:51 minutes in 2002–03[39] Most shutouts in a season – 7 in 2003–04 (surpassed himself, six shutouts in 2002–03; tied with Tomáš Vokoun, 2009–10)[38] Most wins in a season – 35 in 2005–06 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 27 wins in 1996–97)[51] Most games played in a season – 75 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 72 games played in 2003–04)[184] Most games played all-time – 318[185] Most wins all-time – 108 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 106 wins)[49] Most shutouts all-time – 26 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 13 shutouts)[186] Vancouver Canucks Most saves in a single game – 72 on April 11, 2007[69] Longest shutout streak – 242:36 minutes (2008–09) (surpassed himself, 184:20 minutes in 2007–08)[72][79] Most wins in a season – 47 in 2006–07 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 38 in 1991–92)[64] Most games played in a season – 75 in 2006–07 (surpassed Gary Smith, 72 in 1974–75)[187] Most shutouts in a season – 9 in 2008–09 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 7 in 2001–02)[86] Lowest GAA in a season - 2.11 in 2010–11 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 2.27 in 2003–04)[115] Most shutouts all-time – 33 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 20)[99] Most wins all-time - 224 (after end of 2011-2012 season; surpassed Kirk McLean, 211)[188] I am very much looking forward to your already predictable response sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Its obvious by your epilogue here that you have your own opinions, so, would be a waste of time to share mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Typically they'll improve. I'd be curious to see anything to back up the claim of that being "typical". and no stats aren't necessarily better in a smaller sample size. Also It wasn't JR's book it was Sandersons book Smurf was talking about. My bad but it was in the thread about JR's book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If Gillis is gonna trade Schneider he better do it quickly. Any team giving up a lot for him is gonna wanna have him for a couple years at 4 million. He would hold a lot more value if he was an RFA at the end of his contract but he's not. Any team who acquires him has no guarantee hell resign. If we decide were gonna keep him then they better move Lu before he gets fed up with our team and leaves for nothing. There's just too many goalies available to make either lu or Cory fetch a ransom. I think the faster MG moves on a trade the better off well be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Also a goalie. Can you break down from a goalie perspective what leads you to believe that Luongo is not a great goalie? I don't want a list of bad games or some nonsense that he was the reason we didn't win the cup. Fundamentally how has he degenerated in your "expert" opinion? Just a word of caution before you proceed. Johnny Bower thinks Luongo is easily in the top 50 of all-time. Also, because stats can be taken out of context to attempt to prove what we want, let's refrain from using small sample sizes and just stick to overall stats: Luongo is a two-time NHL Second All-Star (2004 and 2007) and a winner of the William M. Jennings Trophy for backstopping his team to the lowest goals-against average in the league (2011; with backup Cory Schneider). He has additionally been a finalist for the Vezina Trophy as the league's best goaltender (2004, 2007 and 2011), the Lester B. Pearson Award as the top player voted by his peers (2004 and 2007) and the Hart Memorial Trophy as the league's most valuable player (2007). Internationally, Luongo won a silver medal at the 1999 World Junior Championships, while being named Best Goaltender in his second tournament appearance. Luongo has won two gold medals at the 2003 and 2004 World Championships and a silver in the 2005 World Championships. He also won the 2004 World Cup championship and appeared in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin as a backup to Martin Brodeur in both instances. He succeeded Brodeur as Canada's starting goaltender during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, winning a gold medal. NHL totals 727 339 283 33 50 41689 1749 60 2.52 .919 NHL totals 59 32 27 3599 150 5. 2.50 1804 .917 Most shots faced in a single season – 2,488 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 2,475 in 2003–04)[183] Most shots faced in a single playoff game – 76 on April 11, 2007[69] Most home games played in a single season – 41 in 2006–07 Most regular season overtime wins, all-time – 49 (as of 2008–09) Florida Panthers Longest shutout streak – 144:51 minutes in 2002–03[39] Most shutouts in a season – 7 in 2003–04 (surpassed himself, six shutouts in 2002–03; tied with Tomáš Vokoun, 2009–10)[38] Most wins in a season – 35 in 2005–06 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 27 wins in 1996–97)[51] Most games played in a season – 75 in 2005–06 (surpassed himself, 72 games played in 2003–04)[184] Most games played all-time – 318[185] Most wins all-time – 108 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 106 wins)[49] Most shutouts all-time – 26 (surpassed John Vanbiesbrouck, 13 shutouts)[186] Vancouver Canucks Most saves in a single game – 72 on April 11, 2007[69] Longest shutout streak – 242:36 minutes (2008–09) (surpassed himself, 184:20 minutes in 2007–08)[72][79] Most wins in a season – 47 in 2006–07 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 38 in 1991–92)[64] Most games played in a season – 75 in 2006–07 (surpassed Gary Smith, 72 in 1974–75)[187] Most shutouts in a season – 9 in 2008–09 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 7 in 2001–02)[86] Lowest GAA in a season - 2.11 in 2010–11 (surpassed Dan Cloutier – 2.27 in 2003–04)[115] Most shutouts all-time – 33 (surpassed Kirk McLean, 20)[99] Most wins all-time - 224 (after end of 2011-2012 season; surpassed Kirk McLean, 211)[188] I am very much looking forward to your already predictable response sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well have a look at the career stats of current and former elite goaltenders. I'm sure if you do you'll notice that their overall playoff stats are at least a little better compared to their regular season career. Your'e right, stats aren't necessarily better in a sample size but they quite often are (one of the knocks on Cory Schneider). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxiebrown Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Slightly worse but yes, practically the same. Is that a good thing? Typically an elite goaltender's stats will improve in the playoffs, not decline. Think of it this way, 700+ regular season games compared to 61 in the playoffs and his numbers are practically the same. Aren't stats usually better in a small sample size (comparatively)? Also, if you remove Luongo's 1 excellent playoff in 2007 those playoff stats wouldn't even be close to the same as his regular season career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus099 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The difference here sir..is that Riviera and I were both goalies and as such have a far better understanding than most on this site, but do tell, what is the main point in your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yeah I would say with a lot of those guys you see slight differences. Broduer, Roy Hasek all have slightly better stats but if we're talking about slight statistical changes between the regular season and the playoffs I not sure the strength of that argument especially when this all started when you were trying to disregard somebody who was talking about what Luongo gives us in the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 We all know that Luongo can be excellent in the regular season, that's not the point. It is in the playoffs when he falters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Killer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 We all know that Luongo can be excellent in the regular season, that's not the point. It is in the playoffs when he falters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 So, to sum up the last few pages: some people have an opinion and others have another. They don't always match but rather clash, and people who seem to be equally qualified as goalies are on either side, along with others of varying hockey knowledge. We'll get along fine without having to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 did you play in the NHL? no, so nobody cares. you aren't pros or experts on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguez Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Its obvious by your epilogue here that you have your own opinions, so, would be a waste of time to share mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Translation = If I am not allowed to make up my own facts then I can't possibly argue my point. Thank you for proving yourself as nothing but another blowhard. Should have thought about the "waste of time" before you shared your drivel in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tru_Knyte Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 So, to sum up the last few pages: some people have an opinion and others have another. They don't always match but rather clash, and people who seem to be equally qualified as goalies are on either side, along with others of varying hockey knowledge. We'll get along fine without having to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Sorry for not wanting to look thru 14 pages, but does anyone know which teams have been calling about Schneider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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