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Are we gun shy to pull the trigger on deals.

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#91 ilduce39

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:11 PM

I think this fan represents a vast majority of Canucks fans...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yngtCM1lnec


Screw making a trade.. Gillis needs to get his ass over to Save On Foods and give the fans what they REALLY want... strawberries and yogurt.
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T-Bone said:
remind them all of Tbone, remeber me for how I lived, not how I was banned
*sig too big

#92 canuck73_3

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:11 PM

Jagr for one.

Also if I had been MG and heard Van Reimsdyk was available I would have made it happen. It is not that players are not available so much as Gillis can't prioritise his roster to get them.

Of course you have to give something good up but MG seems to think he can't part with anyone.


Maybe... Just maybe Jagr didn't want to come here...

You don't just offer a guy a contract and get him, this isn't NHL 13 and guys make decisions based on where they want to go. For all we know Gillis offered him a contract, we'll never know....
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credit to canuckforever00 for the sig :)

RIP Luc Bourdon

#93 Sanford

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:14 PM

I think this fan represents a vast majority of Canucks fans...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yngtCM1lnec


This place use to be a nicer place to discuss the Canucks. Now it's just a bunch of amateur comedians trying to be funny and posting "hilarious" images which have no relevance to the topic at hand.
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#94 Coconuts

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:22 PM

Could it be that making a trade that improves one's team with minimal negative impact isn't as easy when there are 29 other GM's out there looking to do the exact same thing?
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#95 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:42 PM

I've honestly always been very curious to see how trades materialize.
How often GM's
- shop players
- Propose trades
- How much discussion there is between teams
- How many trades fail at the last minute
- Do all GMs know about a trade before it happens

Etc


Ya would be interesting.

My guess is that GM's poke around alot, and give a "hey how you you feel about moving ____" But it would be interesting to be in a meeting where they make plans for something, like a UFA plan or something.
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#96 butters

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:50 PM

This place use to be a nicer place to discuss the Canucks. Now it's just a bunch of amateur comedians trying to be funny and posting "hilarious" images which have no relevance to the topic at hand.


no, its always been crazy, exactly because so many posters act like that video one way or another. Its not comedy its truth.
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#97 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:52 PM

Could it be that making a trade that improves one's team with minimal negative impact isn't as easy when there are 29 other GM's out there looking to do the exact same thing?


It was pretty evident that by the end of last April the goaltending situation had to be addressed, so how much time does the guy need?

Two years then?

Edited by Red Light Racicot, 01 March 2013 - 04:53 PM.

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#98 nuck nit

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:08 PM

Luo has been on the block since June and every other team is a potential suitor.

So,nine months later it is obvious Gillis should have figured out Luo was never the problem and the personnel problems that need attention he has failed to address.
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#99 Newsflash

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:08 PM

This place use to be a nicer place to discuss the Canucks. Now it's just a bunch of amateur comedians trying to be funny and posting "hilarious" images which have no relevance to the topic at hand.


Didn't everyone used to hate your guts?
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Buddy I called this EXACT situtation on here two years ago and was flamed, so I guess I have a bit of hockey knowledge, not to mention the 4 years I played in the OHL idiot.


The conspiracy theories that used to be against Lateralus:
Puberty, life, movie theaters, movie theaters that frown upon you pulling it out, movie theaters that frown upon you pulling it out during a children's movie, Toy Story 3, Pixar, who ever decided to make Woody so damn attractive, a job, his mothers basement, being 40, being 40 five years ago, dogs who can out run him, all dogs, the Olympic committee, Truth, Fact, Honesty, Logic, Newsflash, a father figure who was there to see him learn to ride his first bike, bikes,

#100 cc_devil

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:11 PM

He should go back to being a player agent.
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#101 Sanford

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:12 PM

Didn't everyone used to hate your guts?


That was before I went to College. I was a rambling idiot back then...

Half a decade really changes your perspectives.

Edited by Sanford, 01 March 2013 - 05:14 PM.

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#102 Newsflash

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

That was before I went to College. I was a rambling idiot back then...

Half a decade really changes your perspectives.


It's amazing how you're rep went from like -400 to +200. Good job.
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Buddy I called this EXACT situtation on here two years ago and was flamed, so I guess I have a bit of hockey knowledge, not to mention the 4 years I played in the OHL idiot.


The conspiracy theories that used to be against Lateralus:
Puberty, life, movie theaters, movie theaters that frown upon you pulling it out, movie theaters that frown upon you pulling it out during a children's movie, Toy Story 3, Pixar, who ever decided to make Woody so damn attractive, a job, his mothers basement, being 40, being 40 five years ago, dogs who can out run him, all dogs, the Olympic committee, Truth, Fact, Honesty, Logic, Newsflash, a father figure who was there to see him learn to ride his first bike, bikes,

#103 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:19 PM

It's amazing how you're rep went from like -400 to +200. Good job.


Lmao. That's quite the change.
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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#104 Dogbyte

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:50 PM

That was before I went to College. I was a rambling idiot back then...

Half a decade really changes your perspectives.

Funny stuff.

Your previous point holds some weight as well.
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There are things known and unknown ... and in between are the doors.

#105 shazzam

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:33 PM

not every GM is blockbuster Holmgren
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#106 CanuckCup1316

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:59 PM

Its really hard to comment on how Gillis has handled the goalie situation without knowing for sure the offers or options. Or the trades that could have happened that Luongo may have declined earlier on. But there are many times I question what he has or hasnt done that has turned out to be bad. Such is the case for all GM's though.
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#107 Craig Ferguson

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:12 PM

If we keep losing I think MG and vigneault are first to go
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#108 hockeywoot

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:25 PM

Trading away Grabner and Hodgson is NOT being patient and steady. Regardless of what they wanted, he caved and we picked up lesser talent.

But you're right, MG wasn't gun shy in the past. He made big moves before and after the cup run. He made some good trades to pick up guys like Ehrhoff, Higgins, Lapierre. He's also picked up Ballard, Booth, Kassian, and been eaten up for it. Whether he deserved that criticism or not is beyond the point. He's probably rattled, even if he says otherwise.


IMO its Hodgson that needed more patience lol.


Grabner was less proven than Raymond, who was coming off a breakout year.
He was considered a redundant asset. We made a trade from a position of strength to fix an area of weakness,
defence. At the time of the Ballard trade this was our D.

- -
Edler Salo
OBrien Bieksa (Injury riddled and inconsistent version)


Booth for scraps is a good trade. Take on risk with that contract, but potentially acquire talent for a low cost.
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#109 Pineapples

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:27 AM

Well, I think we should've seen an improvement coming, if not a breakout. Only the cynics would've predicted him to play as bad as he used to.

Your second statement actually does suggest MG is a sucker for the fans and media.


I suppose an improvement was due, but wasn't expecting him to be leading his team in points this far in the season.

And it's starting to look like he'll take into account what the fans and media will think. He probably doesn't want to have another trade where we lose.
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#110 Bob.Loblaw

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:49 AM

IMO its Hodgson that needed more patience lol.


Grabner was less proven than Raymond, who was coming off a breakout year.
He was considered a redundant asset. We made a trade from a position of strength to fix an area of weakness,
defence. At the time of the Ballard trade this was our D.

- -
Edler Salo
OBrien Bieksa (Injury riddled and inconsistent version)


Booth for scraps is a good trade. Take on risk with that contract, but potentially acquire talent for a low cost.


Unless Kassian has a breakout season here (and not somewhere else), Mike Gillis will forever be branded the guy who gave up Cody Hodgson. I think we're able to figure out the strong-arm GMs from the nots. Some of them can handle the young guys. Some of them let them hold out on an RFA standoff.

At the time of the Kassian/Ballard trades, what you said is true. We needed grit and defence. We got neither. Kassian has been invisible and Ballard toiled for two years before getting comfortable (even then, he's overpaid for what he's got to give).

Booth for scraps was not a good trade. It's not October 2011 anymore. We've seen that the trade hasn't panned out all too well. He just barely lived up to his reputation, but showed no chemistry on the second line. No need to talk about potential here. We're now stuck with another overpaid guy. With that cap going down, everything now looks much worse.

The only thing Gillis has done well is re-sign players to great contracts. Sedins, Burrows, Kesler (we couldn't have expected this), Hansen, Lapierre, Higgins, Raymond.... he's kept the core intact, and for a reasonable price. It's his big-move trades that have been awful.

I suppose an improvement was due, but wasn't expecting him to be leading his team in points this far in the season.

And it's starting to look like he'll take into account what the fans and media will think. He probably doesn't want to have another trade where we lose.


A GM who depends on the fans and media to make his decisions isn't a GM at all.

Edited by Bob.Loblaw, 02 March 2013 - 02:53 AM.

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Hockey_Crazy is a god. But I still got dibs on Yuna.

#111 Bodee

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 03:40 AM

trades dont happen in a few hours. When the team is winning its tough to make these long term decisions. Where is this team out, who knows right now.


You see this is the kind of BS that we have come to expect from MG apologists. Winningest sporting teams throughout the World stay at the top because they have managers/coaches who constantly find a way to upgrade.

If you don't you are just waiting for the next winningest team to displace you. Not only has MG not seemed to realise this but he doesn't appear to care which is worse.

Jagr wanted to finish in Canada...........why is he not here? He would have not only added a big body with outrageous talent to our second line but by doing so, effectively improved our bottom 6.


"Booth for scraps is a good trade. Take on risk with that contract, but potentially acquire talent for a low cost."


No it wasn't, Sammy only wanted another year and Sturm was out at the end of the season. It would have been prudent to wait for the guy who helped make our second line tick, who had chemistry with Kesler and Raymond to get fit and then make a decision.

If it didn't pan out we were free of them after 2011-12 and could have put a Booth type contract to a proven, fit, top 6 UFA. ..................that was the smart thing to do.

I say it on here over and over again but it's true Gillis loses focus, far too much for my liking. We needed a proven functioning upgrade for the top 6 and he settled for a Florida rehab, castoff.

I see the same handwriting in the Sami debacle. Ruined a chemistry, pays out a big contract for someone who worked out for one season.

Edited by Bodee, 02 March 2013 - 03:59 AM.

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#112 Bodee

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 04:03 AM

OH PLEASE... everything is SO HARD TO DO! Then why the heck did we hire Mike Gillis in the first place? Our Core is still Run by Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Raymond, Hansen, Luongo, Bieksa, Edler,... ALL NONIS PLAYERS. In fact he still kept Nonis' coach Alain Vigneault! Not even that he even went as far as critisizing our scouting team BUT STILL KEPT DELORME... His drafting record is far more mediocre than Nonis'.

I also remember Gillis telling that the Sedins might not be in his plan, complete arrogance and ignorance.

He has done nothing since our cup run... our team has gotten worst and worst.

Terrible Signings and Trades:

Bernier for a 2nd and 3rd round pick.
Marco Sturm, 2 million and only lasted for 5 bloody games.
Peter Shaefer...
Keith Ballard.. (4.1 for a number 6 defensemen, not to mention a first round pick and Michael Grabner)
Letting go of Mitchell
Signing 1 hit wonder Garrison to a 4.6 multi year contract..

The list goes on HE HAS DONE NOTHING for this team. Look at how terrible our prospect pool is... we don't even have anyone that can step up in the farm team. For some reason he has become some "god" gm because he was able to resign players THAT WERE HERE in the first place.

This is still Nonis' team.

Heck it's really laughable that Mike can't even trade Luongo when its' become CLEAR that we can't have 2 goalies like this. Just complete terrible asset management. Luongo is just going to get older and his value is just going to drop further and further.

Sorry had to get out, after hearing his arrogant voice today in his interview I've just had enough.

Terrible and one of the most overrated GM's in this league.


Damn straight! It's time people realised the King has NO clothes.

By the way you forgot how Hamhuis almost begged to come to Vancouver so he didn't even have to do any work for him either. The guy is a total bottler.
He is making a laughing stock of this team.

Edited by Bodee, 02 March 2013 - 04:05 AM.

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#113 Bodee

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 04:27 AM

You must really hate Edler....

1) By your logic Luke Schenn value = Alex Edler value (let that sink in for a second)
2) Do you think JVR will continue shooting 16.9%, or is it likely to regress by at least 5%?
3) Also, do you have a contingency plan when Salo gets injured? Or do we just run with Cam Barker?


You would fit right in with Mike Gillis's timid and bogeyman round every corner style.

Luke Schenn 5th overall pick 6'-2 and 230 lbs, 22points in each of the last 2 seasons and only 23. Your damn straight he is. He also kicked Lecavelier and Evander Kanes ass. He sticks up for his team mates. I would have him over Edler any day of the week.

I love how you are predicting that MG would see JVR's production drop and yet is confident enough to believe that Garrison's one half decent season is actually how good he really is.

And why single Sami out as an injury threat when Booth has hardly been fit since he got here and Kesler is a regular in the local x-ray department and that isn't even mentioning Manny, Raymond or Bieksa and Edler.
Sami was one of our most consistent performers last season until Marchand cheap shotted him. Played 69 with 25 pts.
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#114 higgyfan

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:33 AM

The biggest problem is that the Nucks don't have very good assets to trade. It's obvious they need an upgrade the 2nd line RW, but who are you going to use in a trade? Everyone puts Raymond, Ballard, Booth, Alberts, Sauve (and other struggling prospects) in their trade suggestions and then want a top player in return. Nobody wants to lose players like Jensen, Kassian, Schneider, Burrows, Kes, Gaunce, Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa, etc. But packages with those kind of guys are the only way you get top players in return.

It's a risky game and it's all about finding the right mix of players. You have to give up something good to get something good in return. The talent lies in estimating what the overall 'good' will be for the team.
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#115 Kack Zassian

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:21 PM

You would fit right in with Mike Gillis's timid and bogeyman round every corner style.

Luke Schenn 5th overall pick 6'-2 and 230 lbs, 22points in each of the last 2 seasons and only 23. Your damn straight he is. He also kicked Lecavelier and Evander Kanes ass. He sticks up for his team mates. I would have him over Edler any day of the week.

I love how you are predicting that MG would see JVR's production drop and yet is confident enough to believe that Garrison's one half decent season is actually how good he really is.

And why single Sami out as an injury threat when Booth has hardly been fit since he got here and Kesler is a regular in the local x-ray department and that isn't even mentioning Manny, Raymond or Bieksa and Edler.
Sami was one of our most consistent performers last season until Marchand cheap shotted him. Played 69 with 25 pts.


The Luke Schenn who was a healthy scratch last year? The same Luke Schenn who had the worst possession numbers of any d-man not named Komisarek? The one who averaged 16 minutes/game?

Hes better than Alex Edler, 2012 NHL All-Star, the guy who was putting up 40 points at age 22? The current 50 point d-man? The guy who logs 24 minutes a night?


Its shooting percentage... simple math... 17% is unsustainable. As for Garrison, lets try to use a sample larger than 20 games. Also, its been 2 seasons of dominating possession numbers, but last year was his first offensive explosion. Hes played average, but I am not going to write players off after what is esentially 1/4 season with a new team (especially after coming off of a major injury).

I love Salo as much as the next guy, but would you honestly want to be paying him 3.5 million when hes 40 years old? Even if he had been decent?
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#116 Kack Zassian

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

Jagr wanted to finish in Canada...........why is he not here? He would have not only added a big body with outrageous talent to our second line but by doing so, effectively improved our bottom 6.


If it didn't pan out we were free of them after 2011-12 and could have put a Booth type contract to a proven, fit, top 6 UFA. ..................that was the smart thing to do.

I say it on here over and over again but it's true Gillis loses focus, far too much for my liking. We needed a proven functioning upgrade for the top 6 and he settled for a Florida rehab, castoff.

I see the same handwriting in the Sami debacle. Ruined a chemistry, pays out a big contract for someone who worked out for one season.


Source? Hes never played in Canada... and hes broke... I would like to see where you got that claim from.

When was Booth not a top-6 forward? What kind of production do you expect?
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#117 panelguy

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

Ask you self what teams needs a goalie at the price Luuuuu is going for.
Wonder why Luuu is so relaxed this year?
What's he got to worry about , he has a large contract a no trade claus and a say in where he goes to.
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#118 Coconuts

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

It was pretty evident that by the end of last April the goaltending situation had to be addressed, so how much time does the guy need?

Two years then?


It depends. Do the Canucks want Luongo or Schneider as their goalie long term? If they want Schneider they need to move Luongo, who has a NTC and may or may not want to be moved. He can also veto any trade he doesn't happen to like. The easiest way to address the goaltending situation would be to trade Schneider as you'd likely get more for him, and he's likely easier to move.

But again, you've got to consider who the Canucks want. If there were any rush to clear the crease Schneider would likely have been dumped by now.

Edited by Azial, 02 March 2013 - 01:25 PM.

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#119 hockeywoot

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

Unless Kassian has a breakout season here (and not somewhere else), Mike Gillis will forever be branded the guy who gave up Cody Hodgson. I think we're able to figure out the strong-arm GMs from the nots. Some of them can handle the young guys. Some of them let them hold out on an RFA standoff.

At the time of the Kassian/Ballard trades, what you said is true. We needed grit and defence. We got neither. Kassian has been invisible and Ballard toiled for two years before getting comfortable (even then, he's overpaid for what he's got to give).

Booth for scraps was not a good trade. It's not October 2011 anymore. We've seen that the trade hasn't panned out all too well. He just barely lived up to his reputation, but showed no chemistry on the second line. No need to talk about potential here. We're now stuck with another overpaid guy. With that cap going down, everything now looks much worse.

The only thing Gillis has done well is re-sign players to great contracts. Sedins, Burrows, Kesler (we couldn't have expected this), Hansen, Lapierre, Higgins, Raymond.... he's kept the core intact, and for a reasonable price. It's his big-move trades that have been awful.



To be honest, I doubt MG cares what the ridiculous over-the-top media or fanbase thinks of him.
The most important to his job, is what the owner Acquillini thinks of him.

He hasn't been perfect, but he has been pretty good.
I'd expect he still has a lot of slack.

Hodgson would add a bit of offense, with Kesler out again.
But it would be neglible, as he's terrible defensively.
He'd get eaten alive with 2C minutes.
IMO Hodgson had to go. I don't think MG would've traded his prized, first prospect without good reason.
By all accounts, MG got rid of a potential headache and distraction.

Unfortunately trades aren't made with the benefit of hindsight.

Also, having Hodgson and Grabner on the roster makes us pretty easy to play against.
Neither were a great fit here.

Trades aren't simply about "winning" a trade.
Hockey trades are made to fix certain week areas.
You also need to acquire players that are a good fit.
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#120 Kack Zassian

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:50 PM

His drafting record is far more mediocre than Nonis'.

I also remember Gillis telling that the Sedins might not be in his plan, complete arrogance and ignorance.


Signing 1 hit wonder Garrison to a 4.6 multi year contract..

Look at how terrible our prospect pool is... we don't even have anyone that can step up in the farm team.

Heck it's really laughable that Mike can't even trade Luongo when its' become CLEAR that we can't have 2 goalies like this. Just complete terrible asset management. Luongo is just going to get older and his value is just going to drop further and further.

Sorry had to get out, after hearing his arrogant voice today in his interview I've just had enough.

Terrible and one of the most overrated GM's in this league.


- I would expect his drafting record to be worse considering we've had pick 1 top-20 pick since hes been here...

- Source? I don't remember him saying Sedins weren't in the plan (evidently they were..)

- Your going to hate on the Garrison signing 20 games in? Maybe have a little patience...

- Maybe we wouldn't have such a weak prospect pool if we wern't drafting at the end of the round?
Thats the trade off of being a good team... (plus look at Corrado, Lack, Tanev... all solid prospects we got late/free)

- Will you feel the same way if there is a solid return for Lu/Schneider in the offseason? Terrible asset management would be dealing Luongo due to time pressure. I think we'll have an idea of how good the asset management is when the dela is finally done.
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