BuretoMogilny Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Anybody ever take the time to think that our system takes a while to get assimilated into because the players being assimilated are coming from crap teams where they clearly aren't coached well/playing in a good system? Interesting how Samuellson came from Det, similar system, integrated immediately and had his best year as a pro on this team? Stop the whining and think deeper folks. Our bad system, as I repeat ad nauseaum has got us 2 pres trophies in a row A scf appearance 2 mvps 1 selke 1 jennings pair hmm.. wow...guess those players did that all in spite of the bad system we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuretoMogilny Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 C'mon people. Any fan knows our system would have won the cup if the majority of our starters weren't injured/suspended vs Boston. Kesler - groin Edler - broken finger Rome - suspended Hamhuis - hip fracture Bieksa - lacerated achilles tendon Raymond - broken back Samuelsson - groin injury Higgins - broken toe were all injured terribly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 We went to the scf because our competition up to the Bruins was clearly worse than us. And because Kesler broke himself taking us past Nashville. We lost, no, destroyed, in the scf because we didn't have Manny and Kesler was broke. Nobody to cover Sedin defensive ineptness. Either we need to cover them, or they need to do something themselves. Anybody ever take the time to think that our system takes a while to get assimilated into because the players being assimilated are coming from crap teams where they clearly aren't coached well/playing in a good system? Interesting how Samuellson came from Det, similar system, integrated immediately and had his best year as a pro on this team? Stop the whining and think deeper folks. Our bad system, as I repeat ad nauseaum has got us 2 pres trophies in a row A scf appearance 2 mvps 1 selke 1 jennings pair hmm.. wow...guess those players did that all in spite of the bad system we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 80% offensive zone starts = sheltered, bud. NOBODY else in the league gets that royal treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler's Nose Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Only way I get rid of AV is for a coach like Babcock or another revered coach that has won a cup before. Anyone else, noooo.. Philly hasn't won anything yet either and have early playoff exits (Giving up way too many goals) so I definitely don't want to see that system or style of play over here in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Uh-huh. Let's just say the Sedins are better WITH the puck than without it. M'kay, bud? Uh that's utterly simplistic. And not sure who your bud is, but he aint me. Are you watching tonight's game? Sedins are being used almost exclusively against Kopitar line and Doughty pairing - as usual - and eating them alive. No sheltering whatsoever. Offensive zone starts alone do not equal "sheltered" - sheltered players get situational matchups against opposition's weaker players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ok - I couldn't read past this claim, which doesn't seem to grasp the concept of "sheltered". The only player on the Canucks roster who faces a higher quality of competition that the Sedins is Alex Burrows. There is nothing "sheltered" about the Sedins minutes - in fact, AV regularly and willingly matches them up against the opponent's top lines, and scarcely bothers to avoid particular d-pairings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The OP meant zone starts, not QoC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Uh-huh. Let's just say the Sedins are better WITH the puck than without it. M'kay, bud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cIutch Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Well here's what i see the problems to be with our system: 1- The Sedins are playing sheltered minutes and they don't play defensively. Most contenders in this post-cap era have had their stars come up with stellar defensive performances. The higher the cap, the more defensive efforts required. So why is it that this team, a supposed cup contender, continues to not utilize the Sedins in any defensive fashion whatsoever? Meaning, why are players like even previously one-dimensional Patrick Kane can become a takeaway force but the Sedins cannot do anything defensively but hook a guy? This is a coaching problem, imho. While it's okay to have a few one-dimensional guys on your 'cup contending' team, those guys CANNOT be your stars. They eat the most minutes. They are relied on more than any other players. So they CANNOT be useless defensively. Yet, our team allows this to continue, year after year. We won't win with that approach until the rules change to promote offense again. 2 - Related to 1, why is it that most teams use their stars to PK, ours does not? Our PK is currently awful. Why? Because our good players aren't doing it. Instead, Dale Weise is. Dale Weise? Please... If the Sedins want to lead this team to glory then it's time for them to put on the big boy pants. Again, they don't play defensively well. But Patrick Kane does? Not until the coaching freakin' makes it happen. 3 - Related to 1 and 2. Why does Ryan Kesler get ALL the hard minutes? The result is plain as day: He gets hurt ALL the time now. Spread out the difficult minutes and watch our good players be hurt less. 4 - We give our defense a green light to jump up in the play while not one of them is a speedster. You know what happens from that as we've seen it time and time again against the Hawks: Breakaways and odd-man rushes against, totally exposing our $9mil elite goaltending, making them worthless. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that our defenders should NOT be given the green light all the time. This team is not fast enough for it. Rather, our defense is built for collapsing and making it incredibly difficult for guys to score on our $9mil elite goaltending. If we're paying $9mil for our goalies, then make them look good. 4 - This teams' corsi beyond the one-dimensional Sedins is BRUTAL. This has always been a problem because none of the non-Sedin guys see any light at the end of the tunnel in terms of opportunity. It's hard to get up for games when you see the Sedins get treated like royalty, no matter how many times they coast back on the backcheck while you're destroying yourself every shift starting in your own zone with junk linemates. Our 4th line NEVER starts in the O zone. So how in the hell are they going to bang guys up the ice? They're not fast enough. The most they can hope for is getting the puck out of the zone and then changing, exhausted. And this is done purposely. No wonder Kesler has to play so much. Overall, this approach got the Sedins easy points for awhile, but since Ehrhoff went away, those points are getting harder to come by. Basically, it's a sinch to shut them down if your team has more than one defensively-capable line. I believe that with the proper instruction and direction, the Sedins are of course capable of playing more difficult minutes. The can lead this team to glory. They are superstars. But right now we're SQUANDERING them. No, the solutions aren't instant or easy, but until we start moving in this direction, we won't go anywhere in the playoffs. Nobody cares about puff points against weak opposition anymore. Like i said, it's big boy pants time. Get r done, AV. Or you're inevitably toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Won't win the cup till we trade Luongo Raymond and Schroder for Huberdeau straight up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Anybody ever take the time to think that our system takes a while to get assimilated into because the players being assimilated are coming from crap teams where they clearly aren't coached well/playing in a good system? Interesting how Samuellson came from Det, similar system, integrated immediately and had his best year as a pro on this team? Stop the whining and think deeper folks. Our bad system, as I repeat ad nauseaum has got us 2 pres trophies in a row A scf appearance 2 mvps 1 selke 1 jennings pair hmm.. wow...guess those players did that all in spite of the bad system we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Hey folks, im a long time lurker & first time poster. I just want to bring an issue to the forefront many of you may never have thought of as an issue before. Im talking about AV's system of play which seems to take every player we've acquired a lot of time to adjust too. It seems like an endless cycle. We don't win the cup, we look to address our weaknesses, we acquire an impact player (like garrison), he doesn't make an impact & we hear that he's still getting "assimilated with our system. At this rate we won't win the cup because everytime we fail, we'll look to address our weaknesses. We just can't afford to wait a year for every player we acquire to get used to our system of play. Though AV's style of play has got us some success, I think we'll all agree that some just isn't enough. We want the cup. And if that means changing our system to make new players comfortable & contributing right away then so be it. In my opinion, I'd love a free-wheeling system like Philidelphia's. Everyone they acquire seems to come & have success right away. And with our goaltending compared to theirs, we'd be potentially lethal. On an end note, I'm happy for Ballard who after almost 2years has finally got in sync with AV's system. That is all. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 We could have the greatest system in the world, but it won't be enough. There will always be goons that try to injure our players, with no punishment of course. Also the fact that we'll never have decent officiating in the playoffs. People laugh at the thought of games being rigged. Well, they clearly are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirk diggler Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Canucks will never win the cup with the Sedins or Luongo....or AV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Our PK currently stinks. That will cost us a playoff round advance as-is. So getting Henrik to take on that duty again only makes sense. At least when compared to watching this team be lit up over and over again while Henrik takes a nap on the bench. We came to this conclusion during our first meeting with Doughty-era Kings. Henrik pretty much had to say, 'Hey coach... Wtf?' though. AV isn't exactly brilliant as he is random with regard to lineup changes. The other dodged point is that the Sedins aren't defensive stars. They are good with the puck, but not so much without it. Their example of a defensive play is taking a hooking penalty and we saw that in the first :15 in this past LA game. If the Sedins are ultimately going to succeed in bringing a cup here, they will NEED to learn the art of the takeaway. They are fully capable of it. They are fast enough. They are skilled enough. They are strong enough. So why haven't they done it?!? What makes them different from other offensive guys like Datsyuk, Toews and Kane (Kane?!?) so much that they cannot perform takeaways while those guys can. This skill is learned, not bred. And the Sedins need to learn it now or they will ultimately never succeed in getting this team a cup, as their minutes will need to be sheltered through O zone starts and AV line matching to make sure they aren't shut down yet again. Elite players should be elite in every regard. M'kay. I see you're in a pissy mood tonight TOML. You're absolutely right - the Canucks system is designed to serve our Swedish royalty - they should be killing penalties instead, like everyone else. That would give this team a better chance of success. Gnite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish⑦Canuck Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Doesn't explain the Chicago series when our guys were all healthy and gave up a 3-0 lead only to hang on by a thread and move on. Chicago adjusted and,as Toews said, "exposed" the Nucks and took over the series. Close to being one of the biggest melt-downs in SC history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirk diggler Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 AV isn't exactly brilliant as he is random with regard to lineup changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Our PK currently stinks. That will cost us a playoff round advance as-is. So getting Henrik to take on that duty again only makes sense. At least when compared to watching this team be lit up over and over again while Henrik takes a nap on the bench. We came to this conclusion during our first meeting with Doughty-era Kings. Henrik pretty much had to say, 'Hey coach... Wtf?' though. AV isn't exactly brilliant as he is random with regard to lineup changes. The other dodged point is that the Sedins aren't defensive stars. They are good with the puck, but not so much without it. Their example of a defensive play is taking a hooking penalty and we saw that in the first :15 in this past LA game. If the Sedins are ultimately going to succeed in bringing a cup here, they will NEED to learn the art of the takeaway. They are fully capable of it. They are fast enough. They are skilled enough. They are strong enough. So why haven't they done it?!? What makes them different from other offensive guys like Datsyuk, Toews and Kane (Kane?!?) so much that they cannot perform takeaways while those guys can. This skill is learned, not bred. And the Sedins need to learn it now or they will ultimately never succeed in getting this team a cup, as their minutes will need to be sheltered through O zone starts and AV line matching to make sure they aren't shut down yet again. Elite players should be elite in every regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckinaround Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Im seeing complaints about "AVs system". When people complain about out our system Im assuming they actualy know what it is. I look at teams with systems like the Canucks, Bruins, Wings and Kings. The Kings were obviously sticking to an amazing system that stumped every team in the league last year. Although I think it would be hard to define. I remember them forechecking very agressively and having an insane ability to threaten offensively while shorthanded. My Question is. What is "our system"? Is it easy to define? What was LA's system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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