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Are the Canucks a better "team" with Kesler not in the line up?


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#1 5nothincanucksohno

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:59 PM

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Not a statement but a question put forward for discussion.

Obviously Kesler is one of the best (if not the best) athletes on the Canucks but does the team have better all around chemistry when he is not in the line up?

If so what is the trick to Kesler better fitting in the line up? Should Gillis look for another center and have Kesler move to the wing?

He really came into his own playing beside Sundin. I believe it was Sammy and Raymond who played beside him during his 40 goal season? Maybe we just miss a good veteran presence...someone like Sammy or Sundin?

Thoughts?

Flame away...
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#2 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

Does everyone here not realize he played every game with a broken foot?...

How well would anyone play hockey with a broken foot... Probably not their best
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#3 Xbox

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

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Honestly, I think so. And this is coming from a Kesler fan
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#4 etsen3

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

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Does everyone here not realize he played every game with a broken foot?...

How well would anyone play hockey with a broken foot... Probably not their best


Don't think OP was talking about Kesler's play itself but rather the team chemistry when Kesler's not in the lineup.

This problem actually happens a lot, when a team loses one of it's key players to injury, they know they need to buckle down and play a tighter more hardworking game so they end up having success. Maybe the Canucks need to focus on not being complacent when Kesler's in.
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#5 Mr.DirtyDangles

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

This has been evident every time he is not in the line-up. The team seems to have way more jump, and way more desire to hit and go into the dirty areas. I have no explanation for this, but it is greatly concerning me o.O
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#6 hsedin33

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

He is great on the PP but we've had a harder time finding someone for him to play with then the Sedins.
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#7 L'Orange

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

No. Kesler has played brilliantly with this line up before. He just needs time to adjust.

That being said, I see how this team played yesterday with dominance and fire. Adding Kesler into the lineup would shake up the dynamic.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Booth - Lapierre - Sestito/Weise

Edited by Canuck-a-nuck, 03 March 2013 - 01:11 PM.

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#8 AriGold

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:08 PM

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This is just an opinion and from nothing I have read...


I personally see Kesler as a cancer in the dressing room, bad attitude, diving, yapping... Constant mis-communication with management and coaches. Without Kesler the canucks have been much better then with him in the lineup and it's more then just his broken foot. I think Kesler needs to be traded else where, and we all know there is a market for him. Maybe something along the lines of...

To FLO: Ryan Kesler and Roberto Luongo

To VAN: Nick Bjustad, Jon Huberdeau and Scott Clemmensen
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#9 higgyfan

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

No. They're a better team than when Kes in the lineup with a broken foot. :towel:
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#10 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

Don't think OP was talking about Kesler's play itself but rather the team chemistry when Kesler's not in the lineup.

This problem actually happens a lot, when a team loses one of it's key players to injury, they know they need to buckle down and play a tighter more hardworking game so they end up having success. Maybe the Canucks need to focus on not being complacent when Kesler's in.


I guess i can kind of see it. but I think it has a lot to do with his shoot first style of play and the lack of and playmaking wingers on the team minus Daniel. Shoot first players are the hardest to work with chemistry wise IMO.

I know they'd never try it but it could be interesting to try

22-33-17
21-45-14
20-40-9
7-acquisition or pinni if he works out-36
29 / 32 against bigger teams

Could provide a more balanced lineup for the roles of the players we have, especially if AV wants to match top lines like last night.

Edited by WonderTwinPowers, 03 March 2013 - 01:12 PM.

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#11 j3ff

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

I really like Kesler's style of play and his aggressiveness on the puck, and because of his many loyal years developing in the organization obviously he wants to help the team win. He seems grumpy all the time though.. maybe due to his foot hurting haha

If we don't end up trading any assets for another highly skilled forward via a trade this year. I think the best way to create chemistry for Kesler would be to play him with his American bros Higgins and Booth. THis lets us leave the Hanson, Schroeder, Mayray line intact and thow Lappy on the 4th with kassian/sestito

n2b imo
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#12 TheCammer

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

Not a statement but a question put forward for discussion.

Obviously Kesler is one of the best (if not the best) athletes on the Canucks but does the team have better all around chemistry when he is not in the line up?

If so what is the trick to Kesler better fitting in the line up? Should Gillis look for another center and have Kesler move to the wing?

He really came into his own playing beside Sundin. I believe it was Sammy and Raymond who played beside him during his 40 goal season? Maybe we just miss a good veteran presence...someone like Sammy or Sundin?

Thoughts?

Flame away...

No.

Look at the opponents we played with him versus when he was out. He played well and contributed offensively while skating on a broken foot while in the lineup. The last road trip travel was ridiculous , we had a flu bug sweep through the team and Bieksa was out for a few of them.

I think the key is to find a couple of wingers to play consistently with Kesler and stick with it for awhile. I liked the Kassian Booth Kesler line and wish it has been given a little more time to gel. I'm not sure I like Booth with Kesler but I thought Kassian has shown some good playmaking skills and that it might come together.
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#13 apollo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:14 PM

No
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#14 Gran Turismo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

I'll reserve my judgements until I see him play more than one game completely healthy.
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#15 Tom Sestito

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

TBH I like Raymond and Hansen together, and that shouldn't be split up.

Sedins - Burrows
Raymond - Kesler - Hansen 2a?
Booth- Schroeder - Higgins 2b?
Sestito - Lapierre - Kassian
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#16 canuckleface77

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

This is just an opinion and from nothing I have read...


I personally see Kesler as a cancer in the dressing room, bad attitude, diving, yapping... Constant mis-communication with management and coaches. Without Kesler the canucks have been much better then with him in the lineup and it's more then just his broken foot. I think Kesler needs to be traded else where, and we all know there is a market for him. Maybe something along the lines of...

To FLO: Ryan Kesler and Roberto Luongo

To VAN: Nick Bjustad, Jon Huberdeau and Scott Clemmensen


Completely agree. He's a bit of a drama queen (my opinion, sorry fan boys), strongly hate his head snap backs, yapping, and although I think he is tolerated in the room, I think the boys make fun of him cause he's so dramatic.

That being said, he is one helluva 2 way player, but perhaps package him up with one of the tenders and see what we can get.
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#17 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

They had a meeting before the game, cause they were not playing well.

The effort they gave yesterday, we would win without any one of our star players in the lineup.

That being said Kes does have to work on somethings, like working with his linemates. Also respecting their skills and what they bring.
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#18 Nino

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

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Ryan's line mates play better when he's not playing because they get to touch the puck.

Move him to the wing, third line defensive center, or trade him.
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#19 406281dylan

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

I Have not been to impressed with Schroeders play recently, I feel like he is going to be the cody Hodgson of the stanley cup year.
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#20 5nothincanucksohno

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

Don't think OP was talking about Kesler's play itself but rather the team chemistry when Kesler's not in the lineup.

This problem actually happens a lot, when a team loses one of it's key players to injury, they know they need to buckle down and play a tighter more hardworking game so they end up having success. Maybe the Canucks need to focus on not being complacent when Kesler's in.


Agreed. The thread had nothing to do with Kesler's play...it is about how the bottom three lines play without him. The lines seem to be more fluid when Kes is not in the line up.

Obviously Kesler adds elements no one else on this team can (PP, defense, etc etc) but how does the team better integrate him and maximize his talents during 5 on 5 play...that is the question?

I would love to see Kesler on the wing with the Danny and Hank...even just for a game. Or can we find a younger version of Samuelsson...
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#21 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

Obviously it's been awhile since he carried this team through an entire playoff round, but Kesler is this teams' engine. We need him to get better again, not to trade him.

However, i wouldn't be shocked if we do trade him. So typical.
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#22 Nino

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

I Have not been to impressed with Schroeders play recently, I feel like he is going to be the cody Hodgson of the stanley cup year.


Did you mistakenly type Schroeder's name when you were referring to Ryan or did you just post this in the wrong topic?
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#23 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:29 PM

This thread isn't about how well Kesler's playing, it's about the team. Kesler's been great with 5 points in 7 games (bad -4 though).

For whatever reason, Hansen and Raymond elevate their game when Kesler's not here. Probably because they're getting more, quality ice-time but also because they understand their responsibilities to score. The same can be said for Higgins. Our secondary scorers simply lift their game when Kesler's out.

I'd honestly like to see Kesler get given a shot with the Sedins. Obviously this team is thin enough at center as it is, but it would force guys like Burrows, Raymond, Hansen, Booth, Higgins and Kassian to carry more of a load and play better.
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#24 Jester13

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

A lot of people have criticized Louie in the past for having a big ego and needing his tires pumped up but IMO Kesler is the epitome of the big ego type. I think he thinks he is better than he his. And although he is a good player, there are many more who bring more to the table with his style of play and still remain healthy.

It's almost like he wants to be hurt and continue playing so that people can say "wow Kesler was playing hurt? He's so tough!" If he was so tough he wouldn't be such a whiner.

Sure, call yourself tough for playing hurt, but NEWSFLASH: almost every player on the ice is playing hurt at one time or another, it's a league full of the best male hockey players in the world ie. a tough sport!

He isn't a very smart professional athlete IMO to come back while still injured and then getting injured again, or making existing injuries worse.

I for one would love management to start hearing offers on Kesler for many reasons, least of all what we could get back in assets.

To the OP I would say yes, we are a better team without Kesler in the lineup. He's a selfish, whiny, and high maintenance hockey player.
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#25 Burr's bandwagon

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

This is just an opinion and from nothing I have read...


I personally see Kesler as a cancer in the dressing room, bad attitude, diving, yapping... Constant mis-communication with management and coaches. Without Kesler the canucks have been much better then with him in the lineup and it's more then just his broken foot. I think Kesler needs to be traded else where, and we all know there is a market for him. Maybe something along the lines of...

To FLO: Ryan Kesler and Roberto Luongo

To VAN: Nick Bjustad, Jon Huberdeau and Scott Clemmensen



Honestly not a bad trade proposal. You have some good posts, but I disagree about Kesler being a cancer. He's one of the leaders on the team and works harder on and off the ice them most. I want to keep Kesler, he's had a run of bad injury luck lately and I think that has frustrated some fans.

To Van:

Bjustad, Clemmensen, 1st round pick

To Florida:

Luongo, Raymond (trade while healthy and value is high)
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#26 5nothincanucksohno

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:40 PM

No.

Look at the opponents we played with him versus when he was out. He played well and contributed offensively while skating on a broken foot while in the lineup. The last road trip travel was ridiculous , we had a flu bug sweep through the team and Bieksa was out for a few of them.

I think the key is to find a couple of wingers to play consistently with Kesler and stick with it for awhile. I liked the Kassian Booth Kesler line and wish it has been given a little more time to gel. I'm not sure I like Booth with Kesler but I thought Kassian has shown some good playmaking skills and that it might come together.


Fair enough but the same issues existed last year (I do not think Booth has the instincts to play with Kesler).

Of course there are a variety of factors that make a team tick but as you state in your second paragraph something is missing...maybe it is a winger that can work with Kesler. Kesler's play is not the problem...where he fits in the line up and who he plays with is.
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#27 canidiot

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

i give kess props for playing through the pain.
but camping out on the second line and powerplay when your not at your best is not helping your team.

stats and egos aside, it should not have taken an mri to see that he was not at his best.

any player for that matter should not be ridden into the ground when its not needed.

evey player will tell you they are ready to go.

thats why i am happy to see how this team is looking after manny.

sorry i changed topic but i think there is a common thread.
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#28 Burr's bandwagon

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:47 PM

No. Kesler has played brilliantly with this line up before. He just needs time to adjust.

That being said, I see how this team played yesterday with dominance and fire. Adding Kesler into the lineup would shake up the dynamic.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Booth - Lapierre - Sestito/Weise



Agreed. Only change i'd make:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Booth - Lapierre - Pinnizotto

Hammuis Bieksa
Edler Tanev
Ballard Garrison
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#29 thema

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:51 PM

Ask Willie Mitchell about what a great teammate Kesler is.
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#30 Edler's Mind Tricks

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:54 PM

This could be a good example of the Ewing Theory.
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