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You're GM: Arniel/Ruff vs. AV/Bowness


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Poll: You're GM: Arniel/Ruff vs. AV/Bowness (86 member(s) have cast votes)

Who would you rather be coaching the Canucks?

  1. Vigneault + Bowness (43 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. Ruff + Arniel (43 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

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#1 Teemu Selänne

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:20 PM

Okay, so this is not an anti-AV thread.

I'm purposely posting it after a win because after a loss this forum is hysterical.

It's just a question that happened in a discussion I had with somebody else recently.

The question is: If you were GM, would you fire AV + staff and hire Ruff + staff next time there's a reason to (4 straight loses, a 9-3 loss, something of that ilk)?

There's lots of reasons to support AV and staff and there's many reasons to think there should be a change, so I am wondering what your thoughts are.

Here's some stats just to think about (again I'm not siding either way, I'm just curious).

Ruff + Arniel coached together in Buffalo for three seasons. Pre-lockout they had 2 season where Bufffalo did not make the playoffs. The first year post-lockout, which seemed to suit a team that Regier had given them they went 54-27-6 and made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs. Ruff won Jack Adams with Arniel as his assistant that year.

Arniel as a head coach has only coached CBJ did not have too much success.
He took the Moose to the finals and had success with some current Canucks:
Schneider put up unbelievable numbers under him
Jannik Hansen had 43 points in 50 AHL games one year
Raymond had 17 points in 20 games one year
Kassian has 20 points in 28 games this year with the Arniel coached Wolves.. Schroeder has 19 in 30 (incl. 9 goals).

Lindy Ruff as a head coach has made it the CF 3 times, and the SCF once. As an assistant in Florida he also went to the finals.

AV's stats are well-documented here. He took the Canucks to game 7, has won the NW div. multiple times, has won two President's trophies, is the winningest coach in Vancouver history and 7th amongst active coaches.

Bowness went 2-12 with a horrible PHX team last time he was a head coach.. but also previously coached the Bruins to a CF appearance. Out of 9 NHL seasons (or part of) that he was a head coach his team made the playoffs 1 time - but he did not have stacked teams by any means.

So, what do you think? One common argument for keeping AV (amongst many) is that there is no able coach to replace him out there, but now Ruff is out there. What would you do?

Edited by Teemu Selänne, 03 March 2013 - 04:21 PM.

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#2 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:24 PM

*
POPULAR

Ruff obviously.
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#3 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:24 PM

Obviously id fully dismantle the coaching team, that has brought the Canucks much success.

Seriously, Ruff and Arniel?!

Silly thread.

But it will balloon out to 7 pages full of whining.
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#4 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

Its basically picking your poison, although since Arniel would only be an assistant and not calling the shots, I think I could handle him.

Ruff/Arniel.
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#5 Westcoasting

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

So every coach who loses four in a row should be canned? Brilliant...
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#6 Raffi Torres's Smirk

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:28 PM

Or, C) Hire Nolan Baumgartner



/sarcasm


As much as I like to think that if/when I coach a team I wouldn't do it the same way as AV, he is obviously doing something right. It wasn't his fault we hit a hot goalie in the SCF and didn't win it all. If Thomas wasn't so hot I bet no one is even having this talk.

Even with his lack of displayed emotion, I still think he gives us the best chance at winning this year.
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#7 Teemu Selänne

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:28 PM

So every coach who loses four in a row should be canned? Brilliant...


Not the idea of the thread.

Every coach has a shelf life and I am wondering what you would do, that is all. This does not have much to do with isolated incident but a general view of what is going on.
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#8 Hyzer

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:29 PM

Arniel is pretty bad. So AV/Bowness.
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#9 ghjffbali

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:29 PM

Arneil :sick:
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#10 Teemu Selänne

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

Or, C) Hire Nolan Baumgartner



/sarcasm


As much as I like to think that if/when I coach a team I wouldn't do it the same way as AV, he is obviously doing something right. It wasn't his fault we hit a hot goalie in the SCF and didn't win it all. If Thomas wasn't so hot I bet no one is even having this talk.

Even with his lack of displayed emotion, I still think he gives us the best chance at winning this year.


Exactly, but at the same time, who knows if any other coach would have had less success. There is no way of knowing, but only guessing.

The Canucks are coming off a President's trophy, but also a 1st round/5 game playoff the exit a year after a SCF appearance. Do the Canucks need a new voice on the bench or like you said, does AV give the best chance?
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#11 Teemu Selänne

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:32 PM

Arniel is pretty bad. So AV/Bowness.


If you isolate Bowness' head coaching stats he might be considered just as bad as Arniel.

What if Ruff was the head coach & Arniel was replacing Bowness? Still 'pretty bad'?
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#12 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

Ruff for sure.....Arniel? No thanks. he is an AV wannabe
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#13 ghjffbali

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:36 PM

Screw this, hire Patrick Roy :bigblush:
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#14 NightHawkSniper

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:36 PM

AV & Ruff, now that's a combination I'd like, heck get rid of Brown and pick up Ruff for special teams.
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#15 Westcoasting

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

Not the idea of the thread.

Every coach has a shelf life and I am wondering what you would do, that is all. This does not have much to do with isolated incident but a general view of what is going on.


I don't think now is a great time to switch coaches. Maybe a bigger losing streak and falling down in the standings and yes. I think right now to see how the playoff performance is and then pull the pin if it doesn't work out. I like Lindy as a coach but i'm pretty sure he would want to choose his assistant coach so Arneil shouldn't be an option.
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#16 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

A coaching change would equate to a new approach that our competition wouldn't be used to. But if there's to be any success this season, player movement is also needed.

Hard to know if Ruff would even consider coming here, but doesn't Arniel currently have a job?
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#17 Bring_Back_Bertuzzi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

AV sucks get rid of him
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#18 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

Ruff

Doubt he would play Barker over Ballard, AV is a joke.
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#19 Knightsbridge

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

Ruff for sure.....Arniel? No thanks. he is an AV wannabe


Well put.

AV - Get rid of him.
Arniel - Please no... even worse than AV.
Bowness - Not a fan, but honestly not that bad.
Ruff - Indifferent, wouldn't go chasing after him to coach Nucks, but definitely > AV.
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FORWARDS: D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Z. Kassian | D. Booth - R. Kesler - C. Higgins | A. Burrows - M. Raymond / (J. Schroeder) - J. Hansen | T. Sestito - (M. Lapierre - D. Weise)
DEFENCE: D. Hamhuis - K. Bieksa | A. Edler - J. Garrison | C. Barker / A. Alberts / (K. Ballard) - C. Tanev
GOALIE: R. Luongo | (C. Schneider) | MANAGEMENT: (A. Vigneault) | M. Gillis
*() Trade / Fire / Remove / Waive / Minors

#20 Raffi Torres's Smirk

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:40 PM

Exactly, but at the same time, who knows if any other coach would have had less success. There is no way of knowing, but only guessing.

The Canucks are coming off a President's trophy, but also a 1st round/5 game playoff the exit a year after a SCF appearance. Do the Canucks need a new voice on the bench or like you said, does AV give the best chance?


This year, in a shortened season already close to halfway through, there isn't time to learn a new system and perfect it by playoffs (if we'd even make it). AV is the man for this year, like it or not.

I'm trying hard to zoom out and take off the homer glasses. I like rough and tumble hockey, and that isn't what the Canucks play. Just because AV plays the team different than what I want to watch doesn't mean he's a bad coach. From now on I am going to try to be more objective and less of a princess. Many on this board may benefit from doing the same.
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#21 Chip Kelly

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

Ruff but I still think Vigneault will be canned only if they lose in the first round again and it's once again apparent that he was out coached.

To me it seems like sometimes the way Gillis wants the team to play and the way AV wants conflicts.

Though Gillis tries to make a point of appearing to have infinite patience and won't fire AV especially if that is the popular opinion with Ruff hanging out there now.

Columbus seems like a good fit for Ruff as a team who is looking to significantly change it's organizational culture.

I would be shocked if A.V was fired after this year even if they only win a round. He is bound to get the benefit of the doubt in a shortened season.

Edited by Terry Crews, 03 March 2013 - 04:50 PM.

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#22 Millerdraft

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:53 PM

As long as we keep Newell Brown, I'm happy.

I do really like Ruff, though, but I also like AV so... IDRC either way, tbh.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

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#23 Primal Optimist

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:58 PM

Obviously id fully dismantle the coaching team, that has brought the Canucks much success.

Seriously, Ruff and Arniel?!

Silly thread.

But it will balloon out to 7 pages full of whining.

am i on page seven yet? lol....

I have wanted to replace AV since about six months after he got here. Do Not Want. Not saying Ruff is the way to go, but lets get somone in here who adds to the collective franchise winnability. As it is, AV does not.
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#24 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:58 PM

Ruff

Doubt he would play Barker over Ballard, AV is a joke.


I missed something?!

Barker played in Ballard's spot?!
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#25 Teemu Selänne

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:59 PM

This year, in a shortened season already close to halfway through, there isn't time to learn a new system and perfect it by playoffs (if we'd even make it). AV is the man for this year, like it or not.

I'm trying hard to zoom out and take off the homer glasses. I like rough and tumble hockey, and that isn't what the Canucks play. Just because AV plays the team different than what I want to watch doesn't mean he's a bad coach. From now on I am going to try to be more objective and less of a princess. Many on this board may benefit from doing the same.


Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a homer, I was just trying to question everything.

A coaching change would equate to a new approach that our competition wouldn't be used to. But if there's to be any success this season, player movement is also needed.

Hard to know if Ruff would even consider coming here, but doesn't Arniel currently have a job?


Arniel is the Wolves coach (Canucks' farm team).

I don't think now is a great time to switch coaches. Maybe a bigger losing streak and falling down in the standings and yes. I think right now to see how the playoff performance is and then pull the pin if it doesn't work out. I like Lindy as a coach but i'm pretty sure he would want to choose his assistant coach so Arneil shouldn't be an option.


Well, Arniel was his assistant coach before & has a experience with a few Canucks and within the org. so it seems to be a good fit. Thank you, this is more the idea of the thread.
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#26 RBCanucks

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:59 PM

We should fire Arniel and hire Ruff to coach the Wolves in preparation for anything to happen to AV,

Arniel is one of the worst coaches to ever make it to the NHL, I don't want him associated with our farm team let alone the Canucks.
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#27 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:59 PM

I missed something?!

Barker played in Ballard's spot?!


Tonight he is because Bieksa is out.
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#28 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:00 PM

am i on page seven yet? lol....

I have wanted to replace AV since about six months after he got here. Do Not Want. Not saying Ruff is the way to go, but lets get somone in here who adds to the collective franchise winnability. As it is, AV does not.


Derp.

We already have that.

Coaching is the absolute last concern.
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#29 Hamhuis Hipcheck

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:00 PM

Ruff + AV for Canucks

Bowness + Arniel for wolves

get'r done gillis
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#30 Danuck

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

If AV can't get us back to at least the finals...time for him to go!!
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