Ballard's agent to talk to management

[Quoted]

You took the works out of my mouth !! A.V is not getting the best out of the players we have and is hurting the development of our younger players. Young players need confidence as they hone in a game and improve not to be demoted every time they do something wrong and have the ice time cut. keep kassian on the first line where he can build confidence and get goals and give him time to work on his defensive play.

[wallstreetamigo]

Yeah I agree with the other posters that it might not be entirely fair to Ballard but I also think sitting edler or hamhuis just to reward Ballard is not a good idea.. Getting them ready to be dominant playoffs is more important than giving Ballard a cookie IMO.

[BuretoMogilny]

It's starting to look like things maybe coming apart in Lotus Land.

1) The way the Cody H deal went down was kind fo ugly

2) Manny's situation looks like it could have been handled better and is still an issue

3) the goalie situation, which is a hold-over form last year's SC exit

4) Some of Kesler and his agents comments and disagreements publicly with management

5) The apparent bias against Ballard - no room for error compared to other D

6) Hearing from the rookies that teh coach doesn't talk to them and explain what is rexpected of them but puts them in positions they can't succeed (Schroeder on 4th line C)

Just some examples bu the say where there's smoke there's fire. Seems to me there is far too much drama and personnel conflict/disconnect. along with questionable treatment of certain players.

Let's not forget Linden and Naslund , two of the greatest Nucks ever, both had issues with management.

Lots of little things can add up to a big thing and maybe it explains the disconnected team we are seeing on the ice. THe players are aware of all these things (and more) and are not immune to it.

[elvis15]

I hope to heck that Connauton doesn't see time this year. He's an adventure in his own zone.

Even in limited minutes, Rome has gotten more PP than Ballard did. When he's being told he needs to be flawless in his D coverage or he will get benched then it's easy to see why he isn't pushing into the offensive zone when 5 on 5. His lack of production is less an indicator of his play than the way he is being coached, IMHO.

[Papayas]

lol.....yes clearly that very strategy worked last year too when Edler and Hamhuis stunk in the playoffs (and Ballard was our best D hands down) after getting "cookies" all year. Playing time should be not based on favoritism or who you THINK is going to do better. It should be based on who IS doing better?

Wasn't that the argument the last two years when Ballard struggled? The same standard should apply to the entire team.......

[DIBdaQUIB]

Sorry, I can't see how putting rookies or struggling players into top spots is good for the team - yes it gives the players opportunity to develop, but the name of the game at this level is to win. So, no, keeping Kassian on the first line just to help out Kassian isn't going to happen (conversely if he earns the spot, then so be it).

Having said that, it does seem that they struggle with certain players at times (Ballard being one of those).

[Aladeen]

People on here need to stop panicking. Boys are in a slump and they'll pull out of it. People have been screaming about AV but the players themselves have said they have a ton of respect for him. Clearly, he keeps most of the garbage in the room (which players respect), they know what he wants from them and are a veteran team.

He treats them like a veteran team, not babies who haven't been around long enough to know what it takes = he's giving them professional respect back = players respecting him, its a virtuous circle kids.

If anyone here has played a sport at a competitive level as an adult they would get this. I understand there are very few but those who do would get this point. He has not 'lost' the room, he allows and expects his leaders to lead. You hear coaches saying all the time, we need our best players to be our best players, well that's how he coaches there is nothing fundamentally wrong with AV and no need to get rid of him.

The issue I beleive right now is the following:

1. Firstly the fans need to take a pill. So they are in a slump, big deal. We're in the 3rd, panic panic panic. Mommy's not bringing home my cookie, mommy's not bringing home my cookie, sitting at the window looking out a whining and crying. Only to see, mommy was delayed but she brought you your damn cookie. Grow up, this team is terrific and will find their game.

2. Some fair arguments including this quote that perhaps things aren't as good with the chemistry as we'd like. Do I take this as an AV/MG issue. Not at all. I take this as a maturing team, that hasn't won, that has developed some egos.

A. CoHo - people can whine all they want. This kid still can't take a faceoff, is a (-) player with the highest scoring player in the league on his line (so can't play D to save his life), they are in last place in their conference, and their goals against are atrocious. He is the number one center and is expected to play a Pivotal role at both ends of the arena (please look up hanks +/- over the past 5 years (top 4 in the league). He gets alot of pity point / second assists and is not the player people here think he is. Add in he's a whiner who thinks he deserved more ice time than a hart and selke winning center. Pure stupidity let it go and a good move by MG, Kass will be fine and is the player we need. So don't agree with this point.

B. Manny's situation. Who knows but MG is sincere and wouldn't put Manny at risk, you're questioning a Man's integrity when you suggest he did this for alterior motives. I think MG has integrity.

C. Goalie situation - yes poor handling and needs to be addressed now - agreement

D. Kesler - If you're going to question integrity - question Keslers. Hmm...hurt all through the lock out (ie get paid your 5 million) then magically get better 3 weeks in...The guy hasn't brought anything but diving, selfish play, and a me first attitude since the cup run. He is living off a terrific series vs. Nashville and has forgotten what got him here, work ethic. He seems to beleive he's a superstar and doesn't have to continuously work on his game (Jagr practices on his own after practice and he ain't no Jagr), all the greats focus on improving aspects of their games to become the best, crosby, gretz, lemieux, sedins etc. Kesler, he bitches when AV says he needs to pass more...lends some insight into the guy's headspace, ego, mentality. He thinks he's better than he is and doesn't have to improve. If there is anyone to trade to shake up this team (ex Lou bc he just needs out), its Kesler. I also wouldn't be surprised if he's the source of a rift in the room. He, Bieksa, Lou are all buddies. I can see him being the cancer.

E. Bias against Ballard. Really tired of people saying AV has it out for this guy or that guy. People, everyone is human, you're going to have favorites and not. BUT...at the end of the day, if you do the things coaches ask of you effectively, you will play because it gives you the best chance to win. There are a few trains of thought here on Ballard.

1. There is some aspect of his game that the coaches have been working on over and over with him, some nuance that he is not getting and thus they pulled him out.

2. Could be something personal / family related we don't know

3. Could be part of a trade and holding him out until its done for fear of injury

4. Could be that the other players are part of a trade and the other teams wanted a look...

So don't start jumping to conclusions, whining about AV etc. His RECORD with the Canucks speaks for itself kids.

F. Players not knowing their role? Well FFS I can tell a young player what his role is on an AV team, why can't they figure it out? Play smart in your own end, be patient, don't take risks and minimize errors. Simple hockey. Perhaps Schroeder isn't playing with the same intensity he was at the start of the year, perhaps he's not battling enough for pucks, perhaps he's making bad reads defensively? As for Kassian, people including me want him on the top two, but lets not forget the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, all started on the 3rd line. Better not to rush them, force pressure on them etc. We've seen glimpses of both these player's talent, but we have talented vets in front of them that need to start playing the game THEY are capable of if we want to get anywhere in the playoffs. We will not win the cup bc of Jordon Schroeder, or even Zack Kassian. We will win a cup because/if the Sedins continue to play their game, we get the same consistent effort from Burr, Mayray can find a way to contribute in the playoffs, Kesler puts his ego in check, Higgins and Hansen continue to grit it out, Lappiere stops taking stupid penalties and shuts his trap, we stop diving, Hammer finds his game, Edler finds his game, Bieksa brings his toughness and 2 way play, Tanev plays his terrific game, Schnieds/and or Lou get hot, Booth finds a way to integrate etc etc.

This is not about AV folks its about the players on this team taking responsibility for their efforts and waking up. A veteran team does not need a coach to yell at it. They need to look at themselves in the mirror and leave their egos (developed frm where I don't know as I don't see a Stanley Cup ring on their fingers) at the door.

[5minutesinthebox]

Ya, I am not one to question much that the organization does... but I think they have treated Ballard pretty poorly.

He is a good defenceman, but he has been put on the wrong side, been asked to become a fighter, asked to sit for long stretches of time, asked to play on a 3rd pairing when he excels playing lots of minutes, etc.

He did all of these things without complaining, and tried to adjust his game to fit what they wanted from him. When it doesn't work out perfectly (go figure) he gets benched. When other guys ahead of him screw up even when they ARE playing on the correct side (looking at you Edler)... nothing happens.

Ballard has been all class, and deserves to get moved. So many teams need D, that if we can't get a 3rd line centre in return something is seriously wrong. We can look for a RH D in another move sometime later as it is unlikely that we flip a D for a D.

[ILL BILL NECRO]

This is total crap.... Buyout booth if anything.... Ballard has been great this year.

[TheCammer]

Ya, I am not one to question much that the organization does... but I think they have treated Ballard pretty poorly.

He is a good defenceman, but he has been put on the wrong side, been asked to become a fighter, asked to sit for long stretches of time, asked to play on a 3rd pairing when he excels playing lots of minutes, etc.

He did all of these things without complaining, and tried to adjust his game to fit what they wanted from him. When it doesn't work out perfectly (go figure) he gets benched. When other guys ahead of him screw up even when they ARE playing on the correct side (looking at you Edler)... nothing happens.

Ballard has been all class, and deserves to get moved. So many teams need D, that if we can't get a 3rd line centre in return something is seriously wrong. We can look for a RH D in another move sometime later as it is unlikely that we flip a D for a D.

[theminister]

We'll have to see Connauton at some time to assess him, and I hope it's only as a call up to cover where he gets an easier game against a lesser opponent.

I don't buy the Rome got more PP time than Ballard did argument - at least in how it relates to their point production.

Rome averaged 27 seconds of PP time per 60 minutes played in his three seasons here, while Ballard has averaged 15 seconds. There's certainly more time on the PP for Rome there, albeit not a huge amount, but in all that time on the PP for both players, Rome got only one PP goal where Ballard had none. Rome also got 3 assists on the PP in his time here (Ballard again with none). That still puts Rome at 15 points in 138 games played and Ballard at 15 points in 131 games played.

If Ballard can't generate more points in 5 on 5 minutes with the same linemates and quality of competition as Rome typically faced, then we can't come close to comparing value to what other players on this team bring - even Barker at 700K.

[Papayas]

I think there is much more to this than meets the eye, far more than what we the public know. Im guess there might already be a trade in the works and that may be the reason why Ballard has been a healthy scratch. I can see no other reason for it.

Ballard has no legs to stand on considering how poorly he played for the 2 for the first 2 seasons he was here. You cant blame AV for Ballards poor play. He was terrible. And again if there is a trade in the works, then none of Ballard sitting has anything to do with AV.

Something is amiss...

[DIBdaQUIB]

People on here need to stop panicking. Boys are in a slump and they'll pull out of it. People have been screaming about AV but the players themselves have said they have a ton of respect for him. Clearly, he keeps most of the garbage in the room (which players respect), they know what he wants from them and are a veteran team.

He treats them like a veteran team, not babies who haven't been around long enough to know what it takes = he's giving them professional respect back = players respecting him, its a virtuous circle kids.

If anyone here has played a sport at a competitive level as an adult they would get this. I understand there are very few but those who do would get this point. He has not 'lost' the room, he allows and expects his leaders to lead. You hear coaches saying all the time, we need our best players to be our best players, well that's how he coaches there is nothing fundamentally wrong with AV and no need to get rid of him.

The issue I beleive right now is the following:

1. Firstly the fans need to take a pill. So they are in a slump, big deal. We're in the 3rd, panic panic panic. Mommy's not bringing home my cookie, mommy's not bringing home my cookie, sitting at the window looking out a whining and crying. Only to see, mommy was delayed but she brought you your damn cookie. Grow up, this team is terrific and will find their game.

2. Some fair arguments including this quote that perhaps things aren't as good with the chemistry as we'd like. Do I take this as an AV/MG issue. Not at all. I take this as a maturing team, that hasn't won, that has developed some egos.

A. CoHo - people can whine all they want. This kid still can't take a faceoff, is a (-) player with the highest scoring player in the league on his line (so can't play D to save his life), they are in last place in their conference, and their goals against are atrocious. He is the number one center and is expected to play a Pivotal role at both ends of the arena (please look up hanks +/- over the past 5 years (top 4 in the league). He gets alot of pity point / second assists and is not the player people here think he is. Add in he's a whiner who thinks he deserved more ice time than a hart and selke winning center. Pure stupidity let it go and a good move by MG, Kass will be fine and is the player we need. So don't agree with this point.

B. Manny's situation. Who knows but MG is sincere and wouldn't put Manny at risk, you're questioning a Man's integrity when you suggest he did this for alterior motives. I think MG has integrity.

C. Goalie situation - yes poor handling and needs to be addressed now - agreement

D. Kesler - If you're going to question integrity - question Keslers. Hmm...hurt all through the lock out (ie get paid your 5 million) then magically get better 3 weeks in...The guy hasn't brought anything but diving, selfish play, and a me first attitude since the cup run. He is living off a terrific series vs. Nashville and has forgotten what got him here, work ethic. He seems to beleive he's a superstar and doesn't have to continuously work on his game (Jagr practices on his own after practice and he ain't no Jagr), all the greats focus on improving aspects of their games to become the best, crosby, gretz, lemieux, sedins etc. Kesler, he bitches when AV says he needs to pass more...lends some insight into the guy's headspace, ego, mentality. He thinks he's better than he is and doesn't have to improve. If there is anyone to trade to shake up this team (ex Lou bc he just needs out), its Kesler. I also wouldn't be surprised if he's the source of a rift in the room. He, Bieksa, Lou are all buddies. I can see him being the cancer.

E. Bias against Ballard. Really tired of people saying AV has it out for this guy or that guy. People, everyone is human, you're going to have favorites and not. BUT...at the end of the day, if you do the things coaches ask of you effectively, you will play because it gives you the best chance to win. There are a few trains of thought here on Ballard.

1. There is some aspect of his game that the coaches have been working on over and over with him, some nuance that he is not getting and thus they pulled him out.

2. Could be something personal / family related we don't know

3. Could be part of a trade and holding him out until its done for fear of injury

4. Could be that the other players are part of a trade and the other teams wanted a look...

So don't start jumping to conclusions, whining about AV etc. His RECORD with the Canucks speaks for itself kids.

F. Players not knowing their role? Well FFS I can tell a young player what his role is on an AV team, why can't they figure it out? Play smart in your own end, be patient, don't take risks and minimize errors. Simple hockey. Perhaps Schroeder isn't playing with the same intensity he was at the start of the year, perhaps he's not battling enough for pucks, perhaps he's making bad reads defensively? As for Kassian, people including me want him on the top two, but lets not forget the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, all started on the 3rd line. Better not to rush them, force pressure on them etc. We've seen glimpses of both these player's talent, but we have talented vets in front of them that need to start playing the game THEY are capable of if we want to get anywhere in the playoffs. We will not win the cup bc of Jordon Schroeder, or even Zack Kassian. We will win a cup because/if the Sedins continue to play their game, we get the same consistent effort from Burr, Mayray can find a way to contribute in the playoffs, Kesler puts his ego in check, Higgins and Hansen continue to grit it out, Lappiere stops taking stupid penalties and shuts his trap, we stop diving, Hammer finds his game, Edler finds his game, Bieksa brings his toughness and 2 way play, Tanev plays his terrific game, Schnieds/and or Lou get hot, Booth finds a way to integrate etc etc.

This is not about AV folks its about the players on this team taking responsibility for their efforts and waking up. A veteran team does not need a coach to yell at it. They need to look at themselves in the mirror and leave their egos (developed frm where I don't know as I don't see a Stanley Cup ring on their fingers) at the door.

[wallstreetamigo]

I think there is much more to this than meets the eye, far more than what we the public know. Im guess there might already be a trade in the works and that may be the reason why Ballard has been a healthy scratch. I can see no other reason for it.

Ballard has no legs to stand on considering how poorly he played for the 2 for the first 2 seasons he was here. You cant blame AV for Ballards poor play. He was terrible. And again if there is a trade in the works, then none of Ballard sitting has anything to do with AV.

Something is amiss...

[elvis15]

I've seen enough of Connauton, between his time on the Giants and for 3 live games this year, to know he isn't an NHL d-man yet. One game will be all you will need to see that too.

The PP/time per game numbers are skewed. That's an average of a season yet Rome for decent stretches of 5-10 games would get almost 2 minutes of PP time when other players were down while playing nothing when the team was healthy. Ballard has never gotten that in 3 years. Rome's PP time was a wave while Ballard's was a flatline. There's a need to look past the numbers and see how they were used.

Rome also got the first call to be used in a top 4 role on the right side because the coaches didn't trust Ballard there, bu this isn't a Rome vs Ballard point. The long and short of it is that the coaching staff has NEVER put Ballard in consistent offensive roles. IMO, they have never done anything to help jump start that part of his game, which we know he has, and that's all on them not the player.

[wallstreetamigo]

I've seen enough of Connauton, between his time on the Giants and for 3 live games this year, to know he isn't an NHL d-man yet. One game will be all you will need to see that too.

The PP/time per game numbers are skewed. That's an average of a season yet Rome for decent stretches of 5-10 games would get almost 2 minutes of PP time when other players were down while playing nothing when the team was healthy. Ballard has never gotten that in 3 years. Rome's PP time was a wave while Ballard's was a flatline. There's a need to look past the numbers and see how they were used.

Rome also got the first call to be used in a top 4 role on the right side because the coaches didn't trust Ballard there, bu this isn't a Rome vs Ballard point. The long and short of it is that the coaching staff has NEVER put Ballard in consistent offensive roles. IMO, they have never done anything to help jump start that part of his game, which we know he has, and that's all on them not the player.

[5minutesinthebox]

Are you trolling? Because if you are not you are failing.....

[wallstreetamigo]

I'm not going to go into that depth (I spend enough time on here as it is) but the lack of significant point difference because of that extra time for Rome doesn't excuse Ballard from not producing enough in the same style of 5 on 5 role while he's been here. I'd be interested to see your take on that extra time and why it benefited Rome much more though so that we shouldn't be critical of Ballard's offensive production in his 3 years here.

[Spoosh]

It's probably best for both sides if he gets traded. He's a good player and deserves to play and maybe a good hockey trade can spark this team.

I don't think he's necessarily in the doghouse, I think they are trying to see what they have in Alberts and barker. That being said he's kinda the odd man out as he's not taking hamhuis or Edlers spot. It's our fortunate luck with injuries that's unfortunate for Ballard. I don't really agree with it at all but That's how I'm reading it.

I'd laugh so hard if a Raymond Ballard 1st deal goes down haha

[Quoted]

People do not look past the numbers to see exactly what those numbers mean.....because it is too hard. It's easier to just pretend like you know something because you can read stats based on the entire year.....