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Will Jonathon Toews go Down as the Best Player to Come from the NCAA route?


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#1 NewYorkYankees8771

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:11 AM

Obviously there are great NHL'ers who have played NCAA hockey, but it just seems that in todays modern era that Toews is one of the best if not the best. Im sure the fact that he was able to graduate from high school in grade 11 and start college a year early must have helped.
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#2 La Mauviette75

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:51 AM

As of now, I would argue it's Martin St-Louis. he's shown year after year what an amazing player he is. his numbers are better than Toews, and he's sustained them for a much longer period of time. it's amazing to think he was undrafted... .
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#3 bd71

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:00 AM

Adam Oates, Ken Dryden just to scratch the surface. Joey Mullen. There are lots.
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#4 La Mauviette75

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:27 AM

Adam Oates, Ken Dryden just to scratch the surface. Joey Mullen. There are lots.


wow yeah great point. i knew Mullen was a BC grad but had no idea Oates went to RPI. it's hard to compare players from different times, especially since it's getting harder to score nowadays.

i think it's a great thing that the NCAA is attracting more and more skilled players. here's an interesting graph i was reading the other day, it's pretty crazy the progression going on

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Edited by La Mauviette75, 05 March 2013 - 01:28 AM.

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#5 Bob.Loblaw

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:53 AM

As of now, I would argue it's Martin St-Louis. he's shown year after year what an amazing player he is. his numbers are better than Toews, and he's sustained them for a much longer period of time. it's amazing to think he was undrafted... .


As of now, it's probably Marty, but the OP's right in saying that Toews will go down as the greatest from NCAA.
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#6 bd71

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

It's hard to argue Ken Dryden. I know he's before a lot of guys on this board's time but he was pretty spectacular in his day. And Oates was awesome as well. Maybe the second best playmaker of all-time.
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#7 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:43 AM

Dryden is pretty hard to match. You could argue he was on a stacked Canadiens team.
But...

6 Stanley Cups
Conn Smythe Trophy Winner
Calder Trophy Winner
5 time Vezina Trophy Winner
Ranked 25th by the Hockey News as one of the best players ever.

Fun fact. He was actually drafted by Boston in 1964, then traded to Montreal on the same day, so his agent told him he was drafted by Montreal. He didn't know until the mid 70's that he was originally drafted by Boston!
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#8 Darth Kane

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:20 AM

Toews is a Blackhawk...he will go down in history as being nothing but pure evil.

:bigblush:
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#9 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:31 AM

Toews is a Blackhawk...he will go down in history as being nothing but pure evil.

:bigblush:


I think everyone on this board respects Toews as one of the best all around players in today's game. he'll always be a villain, but even then he doesn't play that part as well as Patty Kane does.

I'd personally rate Toews as the 3rd best center in the league right behind Crosby and Stamkos IMO, given his amazing defensive awareness I'd put him ahead of guys like Malkin, Henrik, and Tavares. Who are all primarily just offensive guys. (As is Stamkos but his Gpg is just ridiculas the last 4 years, that fact he scored 60 and is on pace in an 82 game season this year for 62 is just unreal in today's game) I'd say he's very compatible to Pavel Datsyuk but probably better from a leadership point of view. One of the best players and captains in the game.
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#10 Darth Kane

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:31 AM

I think everyone on this board respects Toews as one of the best all around players in today's game. he'll always be a villain, but even then he doesn't play that part as well as Patty Kane does.

I'd personally rate Toews as the 3rd best center in the league right behind Crosby and Stamkos IMO, given his amazing defensive awareness I'd put him ahead of guys like Malkin, Henrik, and Tavares. Who are all primarily just offensive guys. (As is Stamkos but his Gpg is just ridiculas the last 4 years, that fact he scored 60 and is on pace in an 82 game season this year for 62 is just unreal in today's game) I'd say he's very compatible to Pavel Datsyuk but probably better from a leadership point of view. One of the best players and captains in the game.


I was just being sarcastic, hence the purple font. If you read the PGT from the last Chicago/Vancouver game there are plenty of Canucks fans who think Toews is terrible, classless, and a puke. Some went so far as to say he's not a very good captain.
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#11 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:08 AM

Dryden is pretty hard to match. You could argue he was on a stacked Canadiens team.
But...

6 Stanley Cups
Conn Smythe Trophy Winner
Calder Trophy Winner
5 time Vezina Trophy Winner
Ranked 25th by the Hockey News as one of the best players ever.

Fun fact. He was actually drafted by Boston in 1964, then traded to Montreal on the same day, so his agent told him he was drafted by Montreal. He didn't know until the mid 70's that he was originally drafted by Boston!


Another fun fact, he won the Stanley Cup in 71 (and the Conn Smythe) only playing five regular season games, so still technically being a rookie he won the Calder in 72. Only player in history to win the Cup before winning the Calder.

I was just being sarcastic, hence the purple font. If you read the PGT from the last Chicago/Vancouver game there are plenty of Canucks fans who think Toews is terrible, classless, and a puke. Some went so far as to say he's not a very good captain.


Some people have no respect and are just plain homer fans it makes me sick. I have nothing but respect to Toews he is a great player and a great leader.

When he cross checked Thornton from behind he didn't run away like a little girl and hide behind some goon, he accepted Thornton's challenge to fight.

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 05 March 2013 - 11:20 AM.

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#12 Florence

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:28 AM

Obviously the answer is Mike Milbury.
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#13 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:06 PM

I was just being sarcastic, hence the purple font. If you read the PGT from the last Chicago/Vancouver game there are plenty of Canucks fans who think Toews is terrible, classless, and a puke. Some went so far as to say he's not a very good captain.


I'm aware you were being sarcastic, the big blush is a pretty easy give away. I was mostly just wanting to say how I definitely respect him. As for speaking for other Canuck fans that was probably a mistake, chances are half the people saying those things about him are the same half wits that want to trade 80% of our team, fire AV and Gillis, and completely rebuild after the Nucks lose a couple games in a row.

Anyone who can't see him for the generational talent he is probably doesnt know to much about hockey. I'd like to see him cut back on whining to the refs so much, but he's the captain that's his job.
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#14 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

I have never liked Toews for some reason, but he is good.
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#15 NewYorkYankees8771

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:26 PM

Im sure Toews being a canadian attending Shattuck St. Mary's for high school hockey must have helped a lot, for one year of high school hockey at Shattuck's (including tuition, boarding and hockey fees, it comes down to over $50, 000 just for one year) so Toews must have gotten a scholarship or had parents who had the money to pay for him.
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#16 Darth Kane

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:11 PM

I'm aware you were being sarcastic, the big blush is a pretty easy give away. I was mostly just wanting to say how I definitely respect him. As for speaking for other Canuck fans that was probably a mistake, chances are half the people saying those things about him are the same half wits that want to trade 80% of our team, fire AV and Gillis, and completely rebuild after the Nucks lose a couple games in a row.

Anyone who can't see him for the generational talent he is probably doesnt know to much about hockey. I'd like to see him cut back on whining to the refs so much, but he's the captain that's his job.


Check out some of the comments in the thread about Kane's behaviour. Some Canucks fans are saying they respective Kane more than Toews. Toews was also called a whiner, cry baby and sore loser. Is today Opposite Day? Did I miss the memo?
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#17 Tearloch7

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:13 PM

Will Jonathon Toews go down? .. some folks confirm he will ..
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#18 Salmonberries

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:52 AM

If you include goaltenders, ex-Canuck and Michigan Tech Huskies grad and NHL hall of famer Tony Esposito should be given very strong consideration as the greatest NCAA developed player all time.
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#19 VanNuck

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:52 PM

Toews could potentially go down as a candidate for top 10 greatest hockey players of all time. You got to hand it to him for reaching Triple Gold at such a young age, even captaining his team to a Cup and winning the Conn Smythe, and still having much runway before him. If he wins them all over again and maintains such well-rounded play, I think he'll contend for a spot next to Lemieux, Gretzky, Orr, and the likes.
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#20 Mustapha

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:31 PM

Dryden is pretty hard to match. You could argue he was on a stacked Canadiens team.
But...

6 Stanley Cups
Conn Smythe Trophy Winner
Calder Trophy Winner
5 time Vezina Trophy Winner
Ranked 25th by the Hockey News as one of the best players ever.


You could argue the Hawks are quite talented as well....but the elite are spread out a lot more in a 30 league team.

Toews would have to do more than just put up numbers in the regular season to unseat Dryden.

He would have to at lead the Hawks to at least one more Cup to put him in serious contention.

Having said that, Toews is a great player, and should be in the HHOF if he has any kind of career.
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What are you talking about? The Flames are one of the teams that gets good value contracts


#21 Mustapha

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:35 PM

I was just being sarcastic, hence the purple font. If you read the PGT from the last Chicago/Vancouver game there are plenty of Canucks fans who think Toews is terrible, classless, and a puke. Some went so far as to say he's not a very good captain.


I think the animosity of the two teams can build up a lot of resentment. Forget the fans, remember what Dave Bolland said about the Sedins? Some of the stuff I have read from Chicago fans is just as vile and nasty....and that was from the year they won the championship.. I think most reasonable fans can accept that Toews has talent. It's true I don't like him much....because of the rivalry, but I still recognize his elite skill and abilities.
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What are you talking about? The Flames are one of the teams that gets good value contracts


#22 Mustapha

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:44 PM

Toews could potentially go down as a candidate for top 10 greatest hockey players of all time. You got to hand it to him for reaching Triple Gold at such a young age, even captaining his team to a Cup and winning the Conn Smythe, and still having much runway before him. If he wins them all over again and maintains such well-rounded play, I think he'll contend for a spot next to Lemieux, Gretzky, Orr, and the likes.


Toews will have to do it all over again (maybe 3 times) to pass the likes of Yzerman and Sakic.....and then do it for 10 or 15 years straight, winning every three seasons or so to be up with Gretz.

I know people like to lump Gretz and Lemieux together, but Gretz was better, sorry. He won more. He had more points. He was healthier (this is fortune more than anything, but there it is) and he helped grow the game in the USA all by himself. Even if you watch his final season with the Rangers, he could generate a scoring chance with the puck on almost every shift. I truly believe that Wayne is a "once in a century" player. Even greater than the generational talents that are seen, I believe him to be the greatest human to ever wear a pair of skates.

I don't think even Crosby will ever come close to what Gretzky was, so if Toews were to be up there in the top 10 all time, he still has a long road ahead.
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What are you talking about? The Flames are one of the teams that gets good value contracts


#23 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:18 AM

I know people like to lump Gretz and Lemieux together, but Gretz was better, sorry. He won more. He had more points. He was healthier (this is fortune more than anything, but there it is) and he helped grow the game in the USA all by himself. Even if you watch his final season with the Rangers, he could generate a scoring chance with the puck on almost every shift. I truly believe that Wayne is a "once in a century" player. Even greater than the generational talents that are seen, I believe him to be the greatest human to ever wear a pair of skates.


People lump Gretzky and Lemieux together because as it was they were very close talent wise and had injurys not plagued Lemieux's career he would have blown Gretzky's records away.

I just did some quick calculations of one of Lemieux's years, in the 92-93 season (his best statistical season) he played 60 games scored 69 goals (awsome :P ) and 91 assists for 160 points, you extend that to 82 games and that's 94 goals (Gretzky's record is 92) and 123 assists (Gretzky's recored is better with 163) and 217 points (Gretzky's record is 215), so maybe not blown away his records but he was equally as good as Gretzky overall, both had their strengths and weaknesses but in the end I wouldn't place one higher than the other.

In short people lump Gretzky and Lemieux together because they look beyond the stats and see how amazingly talented they both were.

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 13 March 2013 - 05:52 PM.

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#24 Hobble

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:56 AM

Jacob Trouba.
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#25 Coconuts

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

Toews could potentially go down as a candidate for top 10 greatest hockey players of all time. You got to hand it to him for reaching Triple Gold at such a young age, even captaining his team to a Cup and winning the Conn Smythe, and still having much runway before him. If he wins them all over again and maintains such well-rounded play, I think he'll contend for a spot next to Lemieux, Gretzky, Orr, and the likes.


He's a very, very talented player, but he's got a long way to go before being put in the same league as those all-time greats. He's very well rounded, but he'd need to pile up more points and win more awards and championships before he could be considered a player of that caliber.
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#26 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

Check out some of the comments in the thread about Kane's behaviour. Some Canucks fans are saying they respective Kane more than Toews. Toews was also called a whiner, cry baby and sore loser. Is today Opposite Day? Did I miss the memo?


While I respect his skill and accomplishments thus far and expect he will go on to have a very successful career, just like some canucks who have earned a reputation for being divers and whiners, Toews has also to a degree earned the reputation regarding the bolded points. Canuck fans can be separated into two main groups 1. Fans that are here solely to make other canuck fans get a bad reputation 2. Rational,Passionate, logical thinking fans, who do not need to belittle other teams/players or there fans to make up for some shortcomings in their own life

Edited by CrippledCanuck, 13 March 2013 - 03:20 PM.

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#27 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:21 PM

People lump Gretzky and Lemieux together because as it was they were close talent wise and had injurys not plagued Lemieux's career he would have blown Gretzky's records away.

I just did some quick calculations of one of Lemieux's years, in the 92-93 season (his best statistical season) he played 60 games scored 69 goals (awsome :P ) and 91 assists for 160 points, you extend that to 82 games and that's 94 goals (Gretzky's record is 92) and 123 assists (Gretzky's recored was better with 163) and 217 points (Gretzky's record is 215), so maybe not blown away his records but he was equally as good as Gretzky overall, both had their strengths and weaknesses but in the end I wouldn't place one higher than the other.


As well Lemieux didnt need players like Semenko and the like to do his dirty work either. Although if people had been afraid to touch him like they were gretzky his career might have been extended.

Edited by CrippledCanuck, 13 March 2013 - 03:22 PM.

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#28 Dasein

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:07 PM

I have never liked Toews for some reason, but he is good.


Probably because he never quits and shows that every game.

Point in case, game 7 SHG in the last minutes of the 3rd to send the game to OT.

Like, who does that?!

Unreal player.
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#29 Tearloch7

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:09 PM

.. no ..
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