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#1 bluesman60

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:24 AM

I absolutely despise the 3rd man in penalty as well as the instigator penalty. It is no secret that fighting is back in the NHL so why all the dancing around with stupid rules.
When an opposing player takes liberties with your players, you should be able to back them up. There would not be too many stars getting punched in the face while the refs put the blinders on.
Two games ago, Alex Burrows was punched in the face during the play and in plain view of the ref but no call. Why....because it is Burrows!
Your goalie gets mowed down and you can't do anything even when the refs turn a blind eye.
People do not pay to see games that are decided in part by the refs....it's not a popularity contest. They should be dealing with whatever they face in a game and then in the next game, everyone starts with a clean slate in the eyes of the ref on the ice....that is how it should be....but it is not. In the event of an intent to injure etc, the league already has a man in place to police that...Shanahan.
The major reason for diving is because the penalties are not being called by the ref....the player is just making sure that the ref at least opens his eyes. When a player shoots the puck over the glass, the players point out to the ref that it went over the glass....is that any different? Don't get me wrong, I hate diving but I also believe that you have to look at the main cause....the refs not making the calls especially when they don't make the calls down the middle. eg A player from Vancouver or Edmonton deliver a clean hard check along the boards and they get called for boarding or roughing. A team like Boston or Philly make the same play and no call...why, because the refs expect those teams to play that way.
Maybe Vancouver needs a couple of players like Dave Semenko to put out with the Sedins and Kesler to instigate a little old time hockey attitude adjustment. It is either that or we start having bench clearing brawls and dish it out too. Maybe then, the league will take a good hard look at the calibre of refs they have out there today. Furthermore, the league should be disciplining any ref that demonstrates a bias in the refereeing....we don't need those guys on the ice.
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#2 SergioMomesso

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:32 AM

*
POPULAR

I love what Botchford said about the Bruins coach yesterday on That's Hockey. "maybe it's your players beating on them, thats causing them to go down."
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[sharedmedia=core:attachments:5584]

#3 WL Canuck Fan

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

Had to post this

http://prohockeytalk...-embellishment/

Claude Julien may be a good coach, but he is a hack and a liar when it comes to integrity.
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Sig too big.

#4 zduck14

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

Great post OP. I know there will be people that come on here and tell you to stop complaining but the reffing in the NHL is a complete joke this year more than ever.

I have to agree that it's these pathetic rules they've implemented such as the third man in and even more so, the instigator rule. I fully believe the instigator rule alone completely change the way hockey is played. First, it allows guys like Kaleta, Downie and Cooke to run around head hunting and hitting whomever they want from behind because they're protected by the league. Yeah, the NHL will suspend them for a couple games but it doesn't help enough. If players like Colton Orr, George Parros, Brian McGrattan etc... were allowed to police the games like in the 70's and 80's, the players would have a lot more respect for each other.

The other rule I absolutely hate is the over the glass penalty. Why on earth should this be any different than an icing call? In my opinion, why not call both of these the same? The result is the same on both plays so just don't let the players on the ice change if the puck is shot over the glass.
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#5 thad

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

I understand your frustration but the reason we have those rules is because every game would be way out of hand without them. Guys would be jumping guys over the smallest perfectly clean hits without the instigator rule. Boston probably wouldn't play with gloves because they have free range to punch you in the head for even looking at the puck lol.

If someone does something cheap these rules should not deter you from doing something about it. I have more respect for the way Boston played in the final then the way we played. That was absolutely embarrassing to be a Canuck fan and watch them play like that.. I think the Canucks are figuring it out though, I'd like to see kassian and sestito throwing some Torres like borderline hits and drawing those penalties from other teams more.
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#6 ahzdeen

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

Third man in rule is hugely important. Can you imagine the number of sucker punches if third man in was allowed?
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#7 Quoted

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

The third man in penalty is for player safety so you don't have two guys beating up on one. No need to get rid of it.

I'm more mixed on the instigator. I like it being called when one player makes a clean but hard hit then gets jumped by someone else.
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#8 thad

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:08 AM

In a perfect world I'd say let the refs have complete discretion on the matter. Like if a guy throws a high hit the ref can say you deserved to have to fight. The league is a joke though and can't get simple interference calls consistent so that would never work properly.
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#9 Quoted

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:10 AM

In a perfect world I'd say let the refs have complete discretion on the matter. Like if a guy throws a high hit the ref can say you deserved to have to fight. The league is a joke though and can't get simple interference calls consistent so that would never work properly.


In a perfect world maybe - refs clearly can't even make tripping and elbowing calls anymore, never mind discretionary ones.
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#10 terrible.dee

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

I've always thought the instigator rule should be discretionary.

Call it ONLY if a player jumps another for no reason.

Oh, and get rid of the 10 minute misconduct.
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#11 Quoted

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:14 AM

I've always thought the instigator rule should be discretionary.

Call it ONLY if a player jumps another for no reason.

Oh, and get rid of the 10 minute misconduct.


Sometime in the next few years I could see a 10 or even game misconduct being part of the fighting major as the league moves to get rid of it entirely.
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#12 canidiot

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

its a good rule. stops middle weights from causing trouble and not having to fight thier own battles.
if someone is beating up one of your stars, take the stupid penalty and kick his ass.
someone suggested refs have the discretion...ha...fighting happens because the refs can not protect your players as good as accoutability.
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#13 poetica

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:20 PM

I love what Botchford said about the Bruins coach yesterday on That's Hockey. "maybe it's your players beating on them, thats causing them to go down."


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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#14 crossbar and in

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:21 PM

Had to post this

http://prohockeytalk...-embellishment/

Claude Julien may be a good coach, but he is a hack and a liar when it comes to integrity.

Who thinks Shanaban should see this link? Who is really embarrassing the NHL here? Julien should be choking on his own quotes here. He is such a MAJOR LEAGUE WHINER.
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#15 TrogBurr24

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

I absolutely despise the 3rd man in penalty as well as the instigator penalty. It is no secret that fighting is back in the NHL so why all the dancing around with stupid rules.
When an opposing player takes liberties with your players, you should be able to back them up. There would not be too many stars getting punched in the face while the refs put the blinders on.
Two games ago, Alex Burrows was punched in the face during the play and in plain view of the ref but no call. Why....because it is Burrows!
Your goalie gets mowed down and you can't do anything even when the refs turn a blind eye.
People do not pay to see games that are decided in part by the refs....it's not a popularity contest. They should be dealing with whatever they face in a game and then in the next game, everyone starts with a clean slate in the eyes of the ref on the ice....that is how it should be....but it is not. In the event of an intent to injure etc, the league already has a man in place to police that...Shanahan.
The major reason for diving is because the penalties are not being called by the ref....the player is just making sure that the ref at least opens his eyes. When a player shoots the puck over the glass, the players point out to the ref that it went over the glass....is that any different? Don't get me wrong, I hate diving but I also believe that you have to look at the main cause....the refs not making the calls especially when they don't make the calls down the middle. eg A player from Vancouver or Edmonton deliver a clean hard check along the boards and they get called for boarding or roughing. A team like Boston or Philly make the same play and no call...why, because the refs expect those teams to play that way.
Maybe Vancouver needs a couple of players like Dave Semenko to put out with the Sedins and Kesler to instigate a little old time hockey attitude adjustment. It is either that or we start having bench clearing brawls and dish it out too. Maybe then, the league will take a good hard look at the calibre of refs they have out there today. Furthermore, the league should be disciplining any ref that demonstrates a bias in the refereeing....we don't need those guys on the ice.


well said, my only thing to add with a negative spin. Is there is times, where a player(enforcer most cases), will back up his player in a scenario where it is not needed, in most of these cases on a clean hit. The enforcers are not the police out there. it will and has to always be the refs call.
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#16 TrogBurr24

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:35 PM

Great post OP. I know there will be people that come on here and tell you to stop complaining but the reffing in the NHL is a complete joke this year more than ever.

I have to agree that it's these pathetic rules they've implemented such as the third man in and even more so, the instigator rule. I fully believe the instigator rule alone completely change the way hockey is played. First, it allows guys like Kaleta, Downie and Cooke to run around head hunting and hitting whomever they want from behind because they're protected by the league. Yeah, the NHL will suspend them for a couple games but it doesn't help enough. If players like Colton Orr, George Parros, Brian McGrattan etc... were allowed to police the games like in the 70's and 80's, the players would have a lot more respect for each other.

The other rule I absolutely hate is the over the glass penalty. Why on earth should this be any different than an icing call? In my opinion, why not call both of these the same? The result is the same on both plays so just don't let the players on the ice change if the puck is shot over the glass.


I like your rule change. to many times does the shot over glass happen, by batting it, or when the puck stands on end. i said a 30 sec penalty once when then this topic came up. as dumb as that sounds, it doesn't really warrant a two min penalty. it happens by fluke way to often. no change might not be enough at times, but it sounds better then a 30 sec penalty haha and 2 min is to much. my one buddy did argue though, and he had a point, that they are pros. keep the puck in the playing surface.
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#17 thema

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

Without the third man in rule Kes, Burr and Lappy would have all been "Bertuzzi-ed" by now. It's a sensible rule.
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#18 bluesman60

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

I understand your frustration but the reason we have those rules is because every game would be way out of hand without them. Guys would be jumping guys over the smallest perfectly clean hits without the instigator rule. Boston probably wouldn't play with gloves because they have free range to punch you in the head for even looking at the puck lol.

If someone does something cheap these rules should not deter you from doing something about it. I have more respect for the way Boston played in the final then the way we played. That was absolutely embarrassing to be a Canuck fan and watch them play like that.. I think the Canucks are figuring it out though, I'd like to see kassian and sestito throwing some Torres like borderline hits and drawing those penalties from other teams more.

I don't think you would see Marchant speed bagging Daniels face because someone would beat the crap out of him right then and there. I can respect a reponse back more than I can this turning the other cheek crap.
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#19 dorrcoq

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:36 PM

To give 2 minutes for shooting the puck out of play when the same sentence gets applied to an elbow to the head (if indeed the elbow is actually seen/called) has always been a huge joke.
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#20 bluesman60

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

In a perfect world I'd say let the refs have complete discretion on the matter. Like if a guy throws a high hit the ref can say you deserved to have to fight. The league is a joke though and can't get simple interference calls consistent so that would never work properly.

The refs do not call it down the middle so I can't imagine their discretion being the guiding light.
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#21 Burrows91

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:34 PM

Instigator rule AND the stupid delay of game/puck over the glass penalty needs to go
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#22 MikeyBoy44

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:47 PM

Instigator rule AND the stupid delay of game/puck over the glass penalty needs to go

I don't mind the puck over glass rule. Should be another one of those "discretionary" calls but we all know the possibility of that.
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#23 Quoted

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

I don't mind the puck over glass rule. Should be another one of those "discretionary" calls but we all know the possibility of that.


Not popular, and highly unlikely, but I like the idea of a 30 second penalty for things like that (add in face-off interference and other really minor infractions). Maybe with a 30second option, officials would be more inclined to call more without worrying about impacting the game.
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#24 CowtownCanuck

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:12 PM

I understand the blindspot refs have for Burrows, but I have a problem when it's the twins.

It would be nice if Kassian could keep the law for the boys.
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#25 bluesman60

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:58 PM

I understand the blindspot refs have for Burrows, but I have a problem when it's the twins.

It would be nice if Kassian could keep the law for the boys.

I don't understand the blindspot for Burrows by the refs at all. I think it is a bad way to conduct themselves on the ice. Burrows has served his suspension and has served his penalties already so he should be starting with a clean slate. The ref is on the ice to ref the game, not carry out his personal vendetta against a player....to me, that is most unprofessional and cheats the fan out of seeing the game called down the middle. There is only one guy that should be looking at past infractions and that is Shanahan.
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#26 c-a-n-u-c-k-s

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:04 PM

The bias reffing is league initiated and endorsed. Don't think you'll see any refs fired for doing what they were told to do.
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#27 John.Tallhouse

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:46 PM

Instigator rule AND the stupid delay of game/puck over the glass penalty needs to go


I agree with the instigator rule (depending on the situation) but the delay of game penalty forces players to play smarter which I think can only be good for the game.
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#28 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:52 PM

Had to post this

http://prohockeytalk...-embellishment/

Claude Julien may be a good coach, but he is a hack and a liar when it comes to integrity.


Everbody on this site who has ever said word one about Burrows or Kesler diving should be forced to watch thar video at gunpoint - thanks for posting - best clip ever. Anyone who says the Canucks have a rep for diving, how about this?
http://prohockeytalk...-embellishment/
It should also be shown to every ref in the league - mandatory viewing.
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#29 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

I understand the blindspot refs have for Burrows, but I have a problem when it's the twins.

It would be nice if Kassian could keep the law for the boys.


http://prohockeytalk...-embellishment/
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