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Cody Hodgson with the goal of the year?


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#301 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

Alright his first 3 years.

We have already established this.

Cody Hodgson is having half a season of great offensive hockey. While being lackluster everywhere else, and suddenly people are comparing him to Henrik Sedin.

I would like to see Cody hit 70 points in a year before I am comfortable comparing him to an Art Ross winner, Hart Winner, and the all time leading scorer in Canucks history.

And I think we can already establish who had the greater character, seen as at the same age Henrik and Daniel cold have quit on the team like Cody did, but chose not too and now look at them.

And yes I consider them tougher cause they take so much abuse and do nothing but play throught it and continue on as the go-to guys on the team.

And while we are at the small sample size predictions. Jordan Schroeder is having a better first taste in the NHL than Cody Hodgson. I don't see anyone making a case Schroeder will be as good or better than Cody Hodgson.

Lets just cool it, cause right now. Henrik > Cody and I don't see that changing anytime soon.


Hodgson had a bad back and was younger then Schroeder when he got his first taste of the NHL otherwise he probably would have looked a lot better.
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#302 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

Hodgson had a bad back and was younger then Schroeder when he got his first taste of the NHL otherwise he probably would have looked a lot better.


No I think he was healthy.

Mike Comrie also did more offensively than Henrik Sedin at 23 or whatever.

Like I get that he is having a great year offensively. But offensive outbreaks happen all the time to random players. Not saying Cody is going to fizzle out like Comrie and be nothing later on, but give it sometime before we draw comparisons to Henrik. Cause right no it is a no contest.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 23 March 2013 - 12:48 PM.

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#303 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

Alright his first 3 years.

We have already established this.

Cody Hodgson is having half a season of great offensive hockey. While being lackluster everywhere else, and suddenly people are comparing him to Henrik Sedin.

I would like to see Cody hit 70 points in a year before I am comfortable comparing him to an Art Ross winner, Hart Winner, and the all time leading scorer in Canucks history.

And I think we can already establish who had the greater character, seen as at the same age Henrik and Daniel cold have quit on the team like Cody did, but chose not too and now look at them.

And yes I consider them tougher cause they take so much abuse and do nothing but play throught it and continue on as the go-to guys on the team.

And while we are at the small sample size predictions. Jordan Schroeder is having a better first taste in the NHL than Cody Hodgson. I don't see anyone making a case Schroeder will be as good or better than Cody Hodgson.

Lets just cool it, cause right now. Henrik > Cody and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

What? He ain't no Henrik Sedin just yet, but lackluster everywhere else? He's been solid for Buffalo in almost every aspect this year besides faceoffs and defensive play, which are both improving quite steadily.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 23 March 2013 - 01:01 PM.

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#304 ChenWei91

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

Gillis has done nothing but harm this franchise over the past couple of seasons.

Ballard: Paid 4.2mil a year to sit in the press box.

Booth: Paid 4.25mil a year to sit at home, and when he is playing, he sucks.

Garrison: Paid 4.6mil to be a 1mil defenceman.

Grabner has more goals than all our players, and has a great cap at 3mil per.

Forcing Manny to retire.

Inability to find a new defensive coach, and PP coach, even with all the struggles, in recent years.

Handing NTC's like it's candy.

Letting Ehrhoff, and Salo go.

Hodgson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schroeder > Kass.

Talked down to Hodgson, after the trade.

Claiming a Lu trade was iminent, but nothing ever came to fruition.

etc

Edited by (>o.o)>, 23 March 2013 - 01:06 PM.

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#305 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

What? He ain't no Henrik Sedin just yet, but lackluster everywhere else? He's been solid for Buffalo in almost every aspect this year besides faceoffs and defensive play, which are both improving quite steadily.


Alright my mistake.

Not up to par everywhere else. But improving. Still lets just wait till we compare him to Henrik.
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#306 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Gillis has done nothing but harm this franchise over the past couple of seasons.

Ballard: Paid 4.2mil a year to sit in the press box.

Booth: Paid 4.25mil a year to sit at home, and when he is playing, he sucks.

Garrison: Paid 4.6mil to be a 1mil defenceman.

Grabner has more goals than all our players, and has a great cap at 3mil per.

Forcing Manny to retire.

Inability to find a new defensive coach, and PP coach, even with all the struggles, in recent years.

Handing NTC's like it's candy.

Letting Ehrhoff, and Salo go.

Hodgson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schroeder > Kass.

Talked down to Hodgson, after the trade.

Claiming a Lu trade was iminent, but nothing ever came to fruition.

etc


Yeah signing the Sedins at 6.1

Kesler at 5

Edler at 5

Hansen at 1.3

Trading for Ehrhoff

Signing Demitra

Signing Sundin

Signing Hamhuis

Signing Garrison

Signing Manny

Winning GM of the year

Winning the division every year despite being labelled a lottery team at the beginning of his tenure.

Going to the cup final

exc.

Just a terrible GM all round.
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#307 ChenWei91

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

Yeah signing the Sedins at 6.1

Kesler at 5

Edler at 5

Hansen at 1.3

Trading for Ehrhoff

Signing Demitra

Signing Sundin

Signing Hamhuis

Signing Garrison

Signing Manny

Winning GM of the year

Winning the division every year despite being labelled a lottery team at the beginning of his tenure.

Going to the cup final

exc.

Just a terrible GM all round.


I said in the past two seasons... Notice how I didn't go much further down?

Garisson is not playing like a 4.6mil defenceman.

Edler is not playing like a 5mil defenceman.

Edited by (>o.o)>, 23 March 2013 - 01:11 PM.

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#308 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

I said in the past two seasons... Notice how I didn't go much further down?

Garisson is not playing like a 4.6mil defenceman.

Edler is not playing like a 5mil defenceman.


Ah I see, allows you to nitpick out alot of the great things he has done, smart.

And yes Garrison is playing like it, and Edler was playing quite well before the suspension.
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#309 ChenWei91

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

Ah I see, allows you to nitpick out alot of the great things he has done, smart.

And yes Garrison is playing like it, and Edler was playing quite well before the suspension.


K, but a large majortiy of things that Gillis has done in the past two seasons have left us squandering for the future. We'll just end up like Calgary if he continues to do what he's done in the past two seasons.

And no, Garrison is not playing like a 4.6mil defenceman. He's slow, and can't handle the puck. While Edler only shows up in a select few, while looking confused in all the others.
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#310 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:30 PM

K, but a large majortiy of things that Gillis has done in the past two seasons have left us squandering for the future. We'll just end up like Calgary if he continues to do what he's done in the past two seasons.

And no, Garrison is not playing like a 4.6mil defenceman. He's slow, and can't handle the puck. While Edler only shows up in a select few, while looking confused in all the others.


Thats why we shouldn't trade Schroeder, or Draft picks. I think he has done well enough drafting in recent years (judging by where we have picked and the picks we have had) that we won't be like them.

And I guess I disagree on Garrison, he is leading the D in +/- and has been a great addition.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 23 March 2013 - 01:31 PM.

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#311 ChenWei91

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

Thats why we shouldn't trade Schroeder, or Draft picks. I think he has done well enough drafting in recent years (judging by where we have picked and the picks we have had) that we won't be like them.

And I guess I disagree on Garrison, he is leading the D in +/- and has been a great addition.


Heard on either Sportsnet or TSN (I forget) that Gillis is willing to trade our first rounder, and if true, it baffles me. I personally think our prospect pool is incredibley dry. Schroeder, and Kassian, to me are very risky projects. Same could be said about Jensen, and Gaunce.

Kronwall in Detroit is a -5, does that make him poor defensively? Suter is a -2. Entsrom is a -3.

I just hope Gillis can aquire blue chip prospects in the Lu/Cory trade. If he succeeds, then I'll be less judgemental of him...

Edited by (>o.o)>, 23 March 2013 - 01:43 PM.

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#312 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

Heard on either Sportsnet or TSN (I forget) that Gillis is willing to trade our first rounder, and if true, it baffles me. I personally think our prospect pool is incredibley dry. Schroeder, and Kassian, to me are very risky projects. Same could be said about Jensen, and Gaunce.

Kronwall in Detroit is a -5, does that make him poor defensively? Suter is a -2. Entsrom is a -3.

I just hope Gillis can aquire blue chip prospects in the Lu/Cory trade. If he succeeds, then I'll be less judgemental of him...


Yeah I agree, I haven't been impressed at all with Gillis since the finals, ever since his plan of building a skilled team didn't work it looks like he doesn't know what to do anymore.
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#313 LeanBeef

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:10 PM

Looked like he was crying after the hit in the habs game
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#314 ajhockey

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:00 PM

Gillis has done nothing but harm this franchise over the past couple of seasons.

Ballard: Paid 4.2mil a year to sit in the press box.

Booth: Paid 4.25mil a year to sit at home, and when he is playing, he sucks.

Garrison: Paid 4.6mil to be a 1mil defenceman.

Grabner has more goals than all our players, and has a great cap at 3mil per.

Forcing Manny to retire.

Inability to find a new defensive coach, and PP coach, even with all the struggles, in recent years.

Handing NTC's like it's candy.

Letting Ehrhoff, and Salo go.

Hodgson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schroeder > Kass.

Talked down to Hodgson, after the trade.

Claiming a Lu trade was iminent, but nothing ever came to fruition.

etc


Signed Tanev

Signed Schneider to an extension

Signed Hamhuis.

Those are just off the top of my head.

I wouldn't say he's "done nothing but harm".

EDIT: "and PP coach, even with all the struggles, in recent years"

What? Our PP sucks this year. This is the first year that it's really sucked.

2009-10 - 6th in the League
2010-11 - 1st in the League
2011-12 - 4th in the League

You need to redefine your definition of "struggles".

Edited by ajhockey, 23 March 2013 - 10:04 PM.

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#315 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:18 PM

Yeah I agree, I haven't been impressed at all with Gillis since the finals, ever since his plan of building a skilled team didn't work it looks like he doesn't know what to do anymore.


He's moved towards size and skill.

I think its a smart plan, it was clear we had issues in the past with those types of big teams, and we saw this afternoon where we didn't have those guys, that LA looked like the much more physically dominant team.

Its a shame they are battling injuries and Booth and Kassian are going to be important pieces in the playoffs (Booth if he returns in time)
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#316 DSVII

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:53 PM

I'm mildy interested in seeing what Cody gets in on his new contract this offseason when he goes RFA, if it's over $5 mil, then the sting of the trade will hurt just a little less.
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#317 SabreFan1

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:26 AM

I'm mildy interested in seeing what Cody gets in on his new contract this offseason when he goes RFA, if it's over $5 mil, then the sting of the trade will hurt just a little less.


Since Stafford (who was sitting in the press box tonight) and his $4 mill. contract will be gone soon enough, I'd be willing to bet Cody will end up making $3.5 mill.- $4.0 mill. per year when he's re-signed to a new contract.
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#318 Lancaster

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:22 AM

I don't care, the Sedins were developing players who took there time, and paid there dues. And they have been rewarded for it. Cody hasn't and won't be rewarded for it like the Twins have been.

Lets be honest here. The Sedins have an opportunity to be HOF players, and will go down probably as the greatest players in Canucks history.

They carried an entire franchise on there back with nothing but success, character, and humilty.

Cody will a very good offensive player, but I don't think he will be a special player like the Sedins are.


The Sedins never paid their dues. They got prime minutes the moment they arrived in the NHL. Even Henrik (or was it Daniel) said that they didn't deserve the amount of ice time they received.

The Twins are great players, but currently not HHOF yet. Henrik has only had a PPG or more season TWICE in his career. The year he won the Art Ross and the year when Daniel did. So in the grand scheme of things, his career isn't anything exceptional, either than that he plays alongside an identical twin brother.

As for "special", that's only because he's currently the team captain. During his draft year, scouts and teams weren't raving about his leadership abilities or anything. And for years people were complaining about how soft the twins were, how they don't push back etc.
Only in the last couple of years has Henrik "carried the team on his back", and even then it's not completely true. During the WCE days, they were very weak 2nd line players. Once the WCE were gone, it was basically Luongo running the show.


For Hodgson:


All the experts are raving about his defense, offensive, character, leadership, IQ, PK/PP, faceoffs, etc. And yet lots of folks suddenly gargle down all the negative rhetoric by MG as if it's gospel or something.
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#319 Edlerberry

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:53 AM

Looking at that draft, Cody was a great pick at the time, and is panning out to be EXTREMELY effective moving forward. He was set back over a year because of his back injury... but I'd say he's the best pick behind

Stamkos picked #1
Doughty picked #2
Pietrangelo picked #4
Karlsson picked #15
Eberle picked #22

In fact the only two players picked after him that I'd take over him are Eberle and Karlsson.

Boedker, Bailey, FIlatov, Schenn, Bogosian, Wilson are all not as adapted to NHL play as Hodgson, and were all taken above him
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View Posttheminister, on 07 July 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

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Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..

#320 Kassian's Face

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:18 AM

It was nice, but goal of the year? no waaaaaay


Already been said. It was a good goal, but I wouldn't even highlight it, let alone nominate it for goal of the year. Too many blind Cody fans here, wish some of them went with him.
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#321 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:46 PM

Looking at that draft, Cody was a great pick at the time, and is panning out to be EXTREMELY effective moving forward. He was set back over a year because of his back injury... but I'd say he's the best pick behind

Stamkos picked #1
Doughty picked #2
Pietrangelo picked #4
Karlsson picked #15
Eberle picked #22

In fact the only two players picked after him that I'd take over him are Eberle and Karlsson.

Boedker, Bailey, FIlatov, Schenn, Bogosian, Wilson are all not as adapted to NHL play as Hodgson, and were all taken above him


You can add #17 John Carlson, #53 Travis Hamonic and #51 Derek Stepan to that list.

Cases could also be made for guys like Myers, Del Zotto and Henrique.

Though that draft was incredible. I still think 03 is a bit better, but we will see how this one pans out as alot are still developing.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 24 March 2013 - 01:46 PM.

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#322 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:53 PM

The Sedins never paid their dues. They got prime minutes the moment they arrived in the NHL. Even Henrik (or was it Daniel) said that they didn't deserve the amount of ice time they received.

The Twins are great players, but currently not HHOF yet. Henrik has only had a PPG or more season TWICE in his career. The year he won the Art Ross and the year when Daniel did. So in the grand scheme of things, his career isn't anything exceptional, either than that he plays alongside an identical twin brother.

As for "special", that's only because he's currently the team captain. During his draft year, scouts and teams weren't raving about his leadership abilities or anything. And for years people were complaining about how soft the twins were, how they don't push back etc.
Only in the last couple of years has Henrik "carried the team on his back", and even then it's not completely true. During the WCE days, they were very weak 2nd line players. Once the WCE were gone, it was basically Luongo running the show.


For Hodgson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O97_2fOPjQ

All the experts are raving about his defense, offensive, character, leadership, IQ, PK/PP, faceoffs, etc. And yet lots of folks suddenly gargle down all the negative rhetoric by MG as if it's gospel or something.


The Sedins were playing less minutes than Cody Hodgson. They started on the third line and Crow was really hard on them. They even sat out games as healthy scratches from time to time.

And you wanna talk about hype. They were raved on at franchise players when drafted. In the modern day, Eric Lindros got that kind of hype. I don't recall Cody Hodgson getting that much hype.

The Sedins have been putting up 1st line numbers since 05/06. They overturn the best line in franchise history.

I find it funny that everyone is so on there high horse with Cody Hodgson, enough to compare him to the greatest players in Canucks franchise history. Because of 1 good half season of offense.

What happens if next year he starts out hot and cools down? Or vice versa? Oh and is Nazem Kadri up there with the Sedins too? Cause right now he is a better player than Cody Hodgson.

I'm gunna wait till I see more of this before I even think abotu comparing him to the Twins. Cause right now the Twins are better in every area.
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#323 aqua59

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:17 PM

I know one thing, Cody Hodgson didn't help Lidy Ruff keep his job did he?
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#324 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:54 PM

I know one thing, Cody Hodgson didn't help Lidy Ruff keep his job did he?


Neither did Vanek or Pominville...... how would a 23 yr old save a coach's job when the team he's on sucks lol. Ryan Miller is a cry baby and sucks this year.
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#325 Bring_Back_Bertuzzi

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:57 PM

only if he could of done that in a cancuks jersey
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#326 mikeburn

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:45 PM

The Sedins never paid their dues. They got prime minutes the moment they arrived in the NHL.


You are correct, Lancaster -

Henrik's first season - averaged 13:31 mins/game including 2:32 on the power-play
Daniel's first season - averaged 12:59 mins/game including 2:30 on the power-play

The Sedins were playing less minutes than Cody Hodgson. They started on the third line and Crow was really hard on them. They even sat out games as healthy scratches from time to time.


Rather than conceeding the point, Smashian, you peristed to look for ways to back up your theory that unlike the Sedins, Hodgson "hasn't and never will" pay his dues. But despite your implied notion that Hodgson never had to earn his dues being entirely off-base (don't you recall his scratchings and benchings, AV's comments about his injury in the media, etc.?) the factor you tried to use (ice time) doesn't work -

Henrik:

1st yr - 82 games played - averaged 13:31 mins/g, with 2:32 pp & 0:03 sh
2nd yr - 82 games played - averaged 12:21 mins/g, with 1:56 pp & 0:53 sh
3rd yr - 78 games played - averaged 13:57 mins/g, with 3:22 pp & & 0:19 sh

Hodgson

1st yr - 8 games played - averaged 7:44 mins/g, with 0:46 pp & 0:03 sh
2nd yr - 83 games played - averaged 13:49 mins/g, with 1:57 pp & 0:13 sh
3rd yr - 32 (so far) games played averaged 19:12 mins/g, with 2:36 pp & 1:41 sh

Given that Hodgson has (so far) played only 123 games compared to Henrik's 242 during his first three seasons, plus all the other factors (Henrik playing with his twin, Hodgson's shuffling linemates, injury, the trade, etc.) it's actually pretty hard to compare their careers either way. But just based on the hard numbers it's clear that -

- Contrary to your claim, Henrik wasn't a healthy scratch his first couple seasons (perhaps you're thinking of the 4 games he missed during the 3rd season, but even if those weren't injury related I'd propose that Hodgson saw enough of AV's dog-house bench to make him pretty much equal with Henrik where it went to a coach being "really hard" on him).

- Henrik was gift-wrapped prime ice time from the onset to his career, presumably because that's what coaches do with offensively talented players.

- Hodgson didn't get as much gift-wrapped prime minutes, but did get lucky that there were injuries to other guys (ie: Kesler) and took enough advantage of those opportunities to warrant more. This year, it's only been in the last 4 games that he's seen 1st unit pp time, and that only because Sabres were struggling.

- Hodgson is playing a stronger short-handed role than was expected of Henrik during his first few seasons.

I find it funny that everyone is so on there high horse with Cody Hodgson, enough to compare him to the greatest players in Canucks franchise history. Because of 1 good half season of offense.


I'm not sure anyone is talking about drawing a comparison based on "1 good half season of offense", other than perhaps you. To the contrary, the view is longer than half a season and people are takling about the kid's overall game, his defensive improvements, faceoffs, etc. Heck, this whole thread was started because of Hodgson's short-handed play.

It's you who seems to persist with pretending Hodgson hasn't any redeeming qualities other than offense (presumably because even you can't ignore those numbers), and perhaps Gillis who would rather we didn't remember that the kid's offensive talents were proven long before this season ;-)

As for comparing him to other players, that's what fans do. We see a kid performing well at the onset to his career and we try to imagine what he may be able to become and achieve in the years ahead.

The Hodgson/Henrik comparison is a natural for many reasons - both centers, both drafted by the Canucks, and notably because both were considered during their early years to be "soft" and "slow", but with a high offensive upside.

I understand that you don't appear to like the idea that Hodgson at 23 has proven to be just as good or better than Henrik was at 23. I'm a Henrik fan too, I get it. But it doesn't change the fact that Hodgson is just as a much a quality player now as Henrik was at the same age. We know what Henrik ended up accomplishing as his developmet progressed over the years, it'll be interesting to see where Hodgson goes from here.

I'm gunna wait till I see more of this before I even think abotu comparing him to the Twins. Cause right now the Twins are better in every area.


Yeah, it would be a good to wait before presuming that a kid who at 23 is better than Henrik was at 23 won't continue to improve, just like Henrik did.
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#327 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

You are correct, Lancaster -

Henrik's first season - averaged 13:31 mins/game including 2:32 on the power-play
Daniel's first season - averaged 12:59 mins/game including 2:30 on the power-play



Rather than conceeding the point, Smashian, you peristed to look for ways to back up your theory that unlike the Sedins, Hodgson "hasn't and never will" pay his dues. But despite your implied notion that Hodgson never had to earn his dues being entirely off-base (don't you recall his scratchings and benchings, AV's comments about his injury in the media, etc.?) the factor you tried to use (ice time) doesn't work -

Henrik:

1st yr - 82 games played - averaged 13:31 mins/g, with 2:32 pp & 0:03 sh
2nd yr - 82 games played - averaged 12:21 mins/g, with 1:56 pp & 0:53 sh
3rd yr - 78 games played - averaged 13:57 mins/g, with 3:22 pp & & 0:19 sh

Hodgson

1st yr - 8 games played - averaged 7:44 mins/g, with 0:46 pp & 0:03 sh
2nd yr - 83 games played - averaged 13:49 mins/g, with 1:57 pp & 0:13 sh
3rd yr - 32 (so far) games played averaged 19:12 mins/g, with 2:36 pp & 1:41 sh

Given that Hodgson has (so far) played only 123 games compared to Henrik's 242 during his first three seasons, plus all the other factors (Henrik playing with his twin, Hodgson's shuffling linemates, injury, the trade, etc.) it's actually pretty hard to compare their careers either way. But just based on the hard numbers it's clear that -

- Contrary to your claim, Henrik wasn't a healthy scratch his first couple seasons (perhaps you're thinking of the 4 games he missed during the 3rd season, but even if those weren't injury related I'd propose that Hodgson saw enough of AV's dog-house bench to make him pretty much equal with Henrik where it went to a coach being "really hard" on him).

- Henrik was gift-wrapped prime ice time from the onset to his career, presumably because that's what coaches do with offensively talented players.

- Hodgson didn't get as much gift-wrapped prime minutes, but did get lucky that there were injuries to other guys (ie: Kesler) and took enough advantage of those opportunities to warrant more. This year, it's only been in the last 4 games that he's seen 1st unit pp time, and that only because Sabres were struggling.

- Hodgson is playing a stronger short-handed role than was expected of Henrik during his first few seasons.



I'm not sure anyone is talking about drawing a comparison based on "1 good half season of offense", other than perhaps you. To the contrary, the view is longer than half a season and people are takling about the kid's overall game, his defensive improvements, faceoffs, etc. Heck, this whole thread was started because of Hodgson's short-handed play.

It's you who seems to persist with pretending Hodgson hasn't any redeeming qualities other than offense (presumably because even you can't ignore those numbers), and perhaps Gillis who would rather we didn't remember that the kid's offensive talents were proven long before this season ;-)

As for comparing him to other players, that's what fans do. We see a kid performing well at the onset to his career and we try to imagine what he may be able to become and achieve in the years ahead.

The Hodgson/Henrik comparison is a natural for many reasons - both centers, both drafted by the Canucks, and notably because both were considered during their early years to be "soft" and "slow", but with a high offensive upside.

I understand that you don't appear to like the idea that Hodgson at 23 has proven to be just as good or better than Henrik was at 23. I'm a Henrik fan too, I get it. But it doesn't change the fact that Hodgson is just as a much a quality player now as Henrik was at the same age. We know what Henrik ended up accomplishing as his developmet progressed over the years, it'll be interesting to see where Hodgson goes from here.



Yeah, it would be a good to wait before presuming that a kid who at 23 is better than Henrik was at 23 won't continue to improve, just like Henrik did.


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#328 mikeburn

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:50 PM

Henrik is better than Cody in every regard. Defensively, Faceoffs, Offensively, Character, Strength, Toughness. I get Cody is a good young player, but please lets not make comparisons to the leading scorer in Canucks history.


I'm gunna wait till I see more of this before I even think abotu comparing him to the Twins. Cause right now the Twins are better in every area.


I replied to your first claim that Henrik was better than Hodgson in "every regard", but you shrugged off the hard numbers which proved your position to be flawed and now are claiming "right now the Twins are better in every area".

It's already been demonstrated that Hodgson at 23 was better than or equal to Henrik in "every regard", so do you mean to change that to Hodgon compared to EITHER Henrik or Daniel, or to Hodgson as 1 man compared to 1 set of twins?

Do you mean "right now" as in what each have accomplished in their careers as of "today", so like comparing a 23 year old with 123 games behind him versus 2x 33 year old seasoned vets approaching 1000 games each?

Or do you just mean "right now" as in this present season, so like comparing Hodgson's 28 points vs Henrik's 28 points and Daniel's 27 points? Or Hodgson's 12 goals to Henrik's 8 and Daniel's 9?

Look, like I said before (when talking about comparing Henrik and Hodgson as 23 year old players), it is very difficult to objectively compare these guys because are simply too many variables at play to make the call either way. There are 10-something years between them. The game is different, they had different learning curves and situations and opportunities. They are different players on different teams in different eras with different backgrounds.

But, so long as you persist with claiming that x player is better than y player, you're begging for objective comparisons so let us at least make as rational a comparison as possible... It would be apples and oranges to try comparing Hodgson (1 player) versus both Sedins (2 players), so let's just look at Hodgson versus either Sedin. And it would be equally loopy to compare Hodgson at 23 to either Sedin as 33 year old vets, so let's just look at what each of these players produced at roughly the same age and time in their careers...

Hodgson @ 23 vs Henrik @ 23 or Daniel @ 23, by the numbers only -

Hodgson: 3 seasons, 123 games played (a 3rd of which have been against top lines/defense on a team without any secondary scoring)
- +3 over three years (only time a negative was during the post-trade stretch)
- averaged 0.58 points per game
- 17 points over 251 power play minutes, good for 0.068 points per minute
- put his team down a man for 26 penalty minutes
- averaging 1:43 mins/game on the PK
- 2 short-handed points
- in his 3rd year, already has a team leading 23 points in only 31 games
- faceoffs taken = 1326, won = 612, lost = 714, percentage = 46.15%

Henrik: 3 seasons, 242 games played (predominantly against secondary lines/defense and with the twin advantage)
- +16 over three years
- averaged 0.45 points per game
- 37 points over 626 power play minutes, good for 0.059 points per minute
- put his team down a man for 112 penalty minutes
- at the most averaged only 0:53 mins/game on the PK
- 1 short-handed point
- in his 3rd year, had 19 even strength points over 78 games
- faceoffs taken = 2800, won = 1302, lost = 1498, percentage = 46.50%

Daniel: 3 seasons, 233 games played (predominantly against secondary lines/defense and with the twin advantage)
- +5 over three seasons
- averaged 0.42 points per game
- 30 points over 543 power play minutes, good for 0.056 points per minute
- put his team down a man for 90 penalty minutes
- at the most averaged only 0:35 mins/game on the PK
- 1 short-handed point
- in his third year, had 23 even strength points over 79 games

To break it down for you another way -

[+/-] Henrik (+16) > Daniel (+5) > Hodgson (+3)
[total pts / game] Hodgson (0.57) > Henrik (0.45) > Daniel (0.42)
[pp pts / pp min] Hodgson (0.068) > Henrik (0.059) > Daniel (0.056)
[penalty minutes] Hodgson (26) > Daniel (90) > Henrik (112)
[highest avg pk mins per game] Hodgson (1:43) > Henrik (0:53) > Daniel (0:35)
[short-handed points] Hodgson (2) > Daniel (1) > Henrik (0)
[3rd year even strength points] Hodgson (23 in 32 games) > Daniel (23 in 79 games) > Henrik (19 in 78 games)
[faceoff percentage] Henrik (46.50%) > Hodgson (46.10%)

Evidentally you didn't like how Hodgson's raw numbers show he's the better player than Henrik was at the same age, but throwing out Daniel's name didn't do anything to strengthen your argument that Hodgson is worse than the Sedins in "every area". Clearly, he's actually been better in most respects than either Henrik or Daniel were at the same age.

In an earlier post you raised other, far more subjective, factors as ways in which Henrik was better than Hodgson at the same age. Factors such as "character", "toughness" and "strength". I appreciate that you think highly of the Sedins in this ways (as do I, btw), but these characteristics are highly subjective and can readily be argued either way -

Sedins often bashed by Canuck fans as "sisters", Hodgson bashed by disgruntled funs after the trade as a "primadonna"

(Sedins never behaved girlie, obviously, just as Hodgson has never behaved as a primdonna. In both cases, the name-calling has come from "toughie" fans who bash struggling players as a matter of habit and are readily willing to jump on something only implied to the media as being factual.)

Sedins took their ice-time frustration to the media, Hodgson didn't

(Those who were around during Linden's last season, you'll recall the Sedins being quoted in the paper as pointing out that they weren't getting as much ice-time as other teams' top lines and were in better shape, etc. Comparably, Hodgson's agent suggested after the trade that there had been internal discussions on the topic - it was Gillis who took the topic public when bashing Hodgson after the fact)

Sedins were (still are) called "soft and slow", Hodgson was (still is) called "soft and slow"

(None of these three guys are known for end-to-end rushes, but they all adjusted to the NHL pace over time to become at the very least average in speed, and all are known for their knack of having great hands and a knack for protecting the puck. Just while the Sedins were more easily knocked off plays in their first seasons but became that much stronger as they developed, it's only reasonable to expect Hodgson's development won't stop at 123 games.)

Sedins claimed by team insiders to be great guys with lots of potential, Hodgson claimed by team insiders to be a great guy with lots of potential. Sedins tooted as future leaders of their team, Hodgson tooted as future leader of his team. Sedins I don't recall what their leadership and trophy accomplishments were before NHL, Hodgson was his team's captain and came with pre-NHL awards.

(I'm thinking of comments by Linden and Naslund back in the day about the Sedins, and how much the same was said of Hodgson before the trade, and more recently again by his current teammates who have been quoted as speaking very highly of the kid.)

All, again, it's difficult to adequately compare these players given all the factors at play, but they are pretty much in the same ballpark for sure - so it's not crazy to look at Hodgson's production so far and imagine that he may one day develop much along the lines the Sedins did.
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#329 MayRayDown

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:02 PM

All, again, it's difficult to adequately compare these players given all the factors at play, but they are pretty much in the same ballpark for sure - so it's not crazy to look at Hodgson's production so far and imagine that he may one day develop much along the lines the Sedins did.


just stop
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#330 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

Good lord. My eyes hurt just skimming over these posts.
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