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[PGT] Canucks 2 - Sharks 3 (SO)


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#241 DeNiro

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:22 AM

Don't blame Edler for playing poorly. Every player players poorly during the course of the season.

It's the coaching staff that continues to give him top minutes. I'm guessing they hope that he'll just play his way out of the slump. That kind of goes against their "best players will get ice time" philosophy though.
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#242 406281dylan

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:26 AM

i actually think AV has done a good job with the team i think there is nothing to complain about, we played hard, we will win next game
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#243 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:28 AM

Don't blame Edler for playing poorly. Every player players poorly during the course of the season.

It's the coaching staff that continues to give him top minutes. I'm guessing they hope that he'll just play his way out of the slump. That kind of goes against their "best players will get ice time" philosophy though.


Kind of. Oh, and while he's "playing his way out of it" he's costing the team goals and points.

He played like a plug tonight. 28 minutes of plug.
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#244 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:31 AM

So...how much rope does Newell Brown have? The PP went dead in the finals against Boston and hasn't been effective since. It's going on 2 seasons and the PP is brutal...40 seconds of cycle and pass it around the perimeter, a point shot and it's cleared. Skate back in and do it again an , voila, PP is over.
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#245 VAN_FAN_MATT

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:32 AM

The only reason Schroeder is on the point on the PP is because he's right handed and can pass the puck well. This team desperately needs at least another right handed D-man.

This team is missing Bieksa right now, but it is evident that they miss Salo just as much. Salo's shot from the point on the PP was often money in the bank.

One player who I really had my eye on, and hoped that Gillis could aquire in a trade for Lou was TOR's Cody Franson. I'm not the least but surprised that he is playing really well inTO.

Edited by VAN_FAN_MATT, 06 March 2013 - 12:32 AM.

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#246 flapjacks

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:32 AM

Ben Kuzma@benkuzma
Schneider on Burish goal: "I came out to challenge and Henrik got his stick on it just as he let it go. I missed it by a quarter of a inch."

Blame game?
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#247 thad

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:32 AM

No offence buddy but this seems so backwards to me.

So you're advocating playing scrubs like Bernier when theres much better candidates like Hansen and you make it hell for him and nearly impossible to make it but when his talent shows through despite the awful decisions by AV you give the props to AV who almost buried him?

The problem is guys like Hansen worked out but think about the potential talent that AV buries who then gets waived or traded to other teams like Grabner?


We basically picked Raymond over grabner and it turns out Raymond is the better player.

I don't think the philosophy noheart is speaking of is 100% right all the time but he has a point that over AV's tenure he's gotten results in his methods.
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#248 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:37 AM

- Garrison looking good, as did Hamhuis, I liked that pairing.

- Edler struggled early but got better as the game went along, thought he was fine near the end of the game

- Barker looked solid aside from a few blunders here and there, Ballard stepped up and had a real nice game

- I actually liked Schroeder on the PP, everyone wants a PP guy like Visnovsky but I think Schroeder fills that role fine, he is a great passer and him being a right handed shot is just a bonus, that PP at the end was one of the best I have seen all year, should keep that unit together.

- Schneider with a great game, Niemi too, he was a brick wall.

- Booth with another strong game, just cant buy one. Although if he continues that goals will come, though Kassian was not bad either, although they should put Schroeder on that line instead, Max really hasn't been all that impressive with them IMO

- Hansen with a great game, Raymond and Higgins also played very well.

- AV with more dumb decisions in the shootout, aside from that & the start I thought we played a real strong game though and carried the play for more of it. Deserved the 2 points.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 06 March 2013 - 12:38 AM.

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#249 Pouria

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

I feel like I am in an episode of the Twilight Zone where the Canucks are on some endless loop where they keep playing the exact same way in order to prove that the system was in no way part of their collapse against the Bruins in the Finals.......

AV and Gillis seem frozen by fear to change anything.......


All of this problem started when we started messing with the lineup that had us in the SCF. Now we would be lucky to pass the 1st round of the playoffs with this lineup.

We let go of Ehrhoff, Salo, Torres and Rome for what? A couple of character guys, a hard hitter and a PP QB that we sorely lack now. We let go of the wrong guys and kept the ones that didn't play any role in our cup run like Alberts, Ballard, Weise etc. Now we have a much weaker lineup and still the same or maybe a higher payroll. If I were MG, I wouldn't have touched that lineup and only maybe added a couple of gritty forwards to that mix with Samuelsson and Malhotra gone.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Kassian-Kesler-Higgins
Raymond-Vermette-Hansen
Torres-Lappiere-Nystrom/Ott

Edler-Ehrhoff
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Salo-Tanev

Schneider
Luongo

Ballard, Malhotra, Sammy would all be gone and Booth would never be here. Instead we would have traded Ballard to Dallas for Ott and received picks for Sammy that would eventually be traded for Vermette.

We would've been way better off with this lineup and would still had tons of cap space to add players. Its too bad MG got fooled by the media and fans all clamoring about the toughness BS. Now we are just average in toughness and even more average in skills.
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#250 sfcanucks

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

I hope they take Edler off of the 1st unit PP and put in Hamhuis and Garrison. Bieksa should also get more PP time. Edler has just been useless both offensive and defensively recently and needs to be benched for a couple of games. We aren't paying him $5 million to play like a dumbo.


What a waste of money for $5 shmil on a guy. At least so far I can't see the bang of our bucks.

Special team's coaching also sucks: looks to me they don't have (or have prepared ) enough tricks in their Sleeves for the PP. Keep putting Edler out on the 1st PP unit and having Shroeder play along side this dude: didn't you see that hasn't worked for 5+ games? And when they did put out Garry and Hammer together on PP, #2 and #5 can't even agree who is the shooter, like they never practiced this combo before.

Oh, and to some other posts protecting Edler and trying to give some more time to this guy -- wait... did you guys see Edler has been consistently inconsistent since the opening of this season (or dating back to the 1st round last year)? Did you guys remember what happened in the 1st game against San Jose this season when the Sharks scored the second goal? The direct assist was from our dear #23.
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#251 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:46 AM

I do agree with some of the critisms of AV. He is not perfect and has to start 'thinking' a bit more.

1. PP - Kassian HAS to be on the number 1 unit even when Kesler comes back. He is a beast and creates the net presence and traffic that will give the Sedins even more room.

2. Schroder should be playing between Booth and Kassian. He has skill and he's playing with plugs. As you say, they are wasting talent, send him to the minors if he needs work, otherwise give him the role that at least CoHo had if you expect him to replace him. And he was doing that quite well at the start of the year, as was Kassian, until AV decided to throw it in the blender.


Schroeder is getting exactly the same treatment as CoHo. Kes is injured, they are having troubel scoring and AV puts Schroeder on the 4th line?!! If he can play poinf on the PP, why the hell is he centering the 4th line? PUt him with Kass and Booth so they can create space for his speed and he can feed them the puck!!! Lappierre is not that guy,,he's suited for a 4th line C position, Schroeder is not.
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#252 Noheart

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:46 AM

No offence buddy but this seems so backwards to me.

So you're advocating playing scrubs like Bernier when theres much better candidates like Hansen and you make it hell for him and nearly impossible to make it but when his talent shows through despite the awful decisions by AV you give the props to AV who almost buried him?

The problem is guys like Hansen worked out but think about the potential talent that AV buries who then gets waived or traded to other teams like Grabner?


advocating, not really but when the player comes through and earns AV's respect they become solid players.

you cannot deny the culture he builds, players want to stay here for less money.

Grabner and CoHo for whatever reason did not fit the AV mould.

Im not condoning it, its just a fact.
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#253 wai_lai416

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:49 AM

meh.. the more hodgson scores in buffalo.. the worse the trade is looking.. why couldn't AV and MG just make it work with either Hodgson or kesler on the wing ~~ too stubborn... too much ego... Edler started playing crap ever since last years playoff against the king.. nothing have changed shoulda waited a bit before doing that contract extension... it's looking worse and worse if he continues to play like this ~~ we prolly have one of the most expensive overrated underperforming inconsistent defense in the leage
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#254 aqua59

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:52 AM

AV's song and dance is doing nothing new, it's all stale.
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#255 RunningWild

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:52 AM

I'm curious why everyone wants AVs head. He can't go out there and score goals.

Vancouver is 16th in the league in goals per game. 16th people. Last yr they were 5th, year before they were 1st. This is not AV's fault. Toronto, NYI, Carolina and Calgary have HIGHER goals per game than Van.

Booth - Hasn't scored a goal in 11 games. 1 goal scored in last 22 games. His last goal was on April 7, 2012. They didn't bring him in to set up plays, they brought him in to SCORE. I don't care if he 'appears' to look good out there. This game is results orientated. He doesn't kill penalties, doesn't eat tough mins - he's here to score goals and that's it.

Burrows - Has 5 goals all season, hasn't scored one in 6 games. That's a 19 goals pace in an 82 game season playing top line mins with the SEDIN TWINS. Chris Higgins has more goals, eats tougher minutes and has never played with the Sedins.

Kassian and Schroeder get a pass in my books. They're rookies, ups and downs are to be expected. But veterans, like the two I mentioned above, need to wake up.

Edited by RunningWild, 06 March 2013 - 12:55 AM.

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#256 Ghostdivision

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

I'm curious why everyone wants AVs head. He can't go out there and score goals.


I hate this excuse, if this was the case no coach should be fired ever.

I will start asking what he thinks hes doing with slow stone hands lapierre who does not pass in between booth and kassian, while little jordan schroeder who is a disher is in between 2 large grinders.

When burrows is getting bullied by a big team in front of the net and pushed out of the crease, why not put kassian in front on the pp?

Why use schroeder at the point instead of garrisson?

We can blame the entire coaching staff and av is the boss.

Edited by Ghostdivision, 06 March 2013 - 12:56 AM.

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#257 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:55 AM

Office politics probably rules this out-but I'm at the point where I'd rather see ol'Pat Quinn behind the bench.

Vigneault strikes me as petty, spiteful & extremely stubborn. His style reminds me of coaches from the 70's. I'm surprised MG has given him this long; wonder if he holds incriminating photos perhaps?...

Grabner, Shirokov, Hodgson...This kind of coach stifles creativity from emerging talent. If he had a young Pavel Bure, he'd try to turn the guy into a 3rd line grinder. C'mon Gillis-I assumed you were smart enough to see what's going on.
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#258 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:57 AM

What a waste of money for $5 shmil on a guy. At least so far I can't see the bang of our bucks.

Special team's coaching also sucks: looks to me they don't have (or have prepared ) enough tricks in their Sleeves for the PP. Keep putting Edler out on the 1st PP unit and having Shroeder play along side this dude: didn't you see that hasn't worked for 5+ games? And when they did put out Garry and Hammer together on PP, #2 and #5 can't even agree who is the shooter, like they never practiced this combo before.

Oh, and to some other posts protecting Edler and trying to give some more time to this guy -- wait... did you guys see Edler has been consistently inconsistent since the opening of this season (or dating back to the 1st round last year)? Did you guys remember what happened in the 1st game against San Jose this season when the Sharks scored the second goal? The direct assist was from our dear #23.


Firing the special teams coach (Newell Brown) is a band aid on a broken leg. Fire the entire coaching staff and give the new staff the next 20 or so games to get this team rolling with some fresh ideas and strategies that other teams have not totally and completely solved.

Specifically the PP needs to give Garrison a PASSER like he had with Campbell in Florida......not Hamhuis who is pretty bad at setting up one timers or Schroeder who seems to rush things way too much. Then they need to let him launch one timers like crazy. Edler rarely uses the one timer and the only reason to stop the puck first is to make sure you hit the net......Edler misses the net 90% of the time even when he stops the puck. Or he waits until the lane is closed. When he gets the shot through it is awesome.......but it doesn't happen enough.
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#259 RunningWild

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:59 AM

I hate this excuse, if this was the case no coach should be fired ever.

I will start asking what he thinks hes doing with slow stone hands lapierre who does not pass in between booth and kassian, while little jordan schroeder who is a disher is in between 2 large grinders.

When burrows is getting bullied by a big team in front of the net and pushed out of the crease, why not put kassian in front on the pp?

Why use schroeder at the point instead of garrisson?

We can blame the entire coaching staff and av is the boss.


Looking back, I agree about "he can't score goals" - it's not a great statement. But he's mixed his lines more this year than he has EVER in the last few years. He's trying to get them going.

I also think Schroeder should be centering the 3rd line, but is that going to make Booth score more? It didn't a few games ago when he was there. Is that going to ignite Burrows into scoring more?

At some point, the players need to wake up and figure it out. They're not rookies, this isn't their 1st rodeo, it's a short season and it's half way over. They need to score more goals or they're not going to win games.
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#260 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:59 AM

advocating, not really but when the player comes through and earns AV's respect they become solid players.

you cannot deny the culture he builds, players want to stay here for less money.

Grabner and CoHo for whatever reason did not fit the AV mould.

Im not condoning it, its just a fact.


You know...breaking someone down to re-build them into what you want is rarely successful. That's why guys like LInden, and Naslund struggled with AV. He has a massive ego and doesn't like to be challenged or questioned. Just ask any Monteral players who played for him.
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#261 Merci

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:00 AM

I was at the game all I could see was SJ players pushing Ballard out of the way with ease to screen Schneider.

On the other end of the Ice you see Burrows desperately battling huge D men keeping him from gaining position to bang in a rebound.

Sedins need to shoot unexpectadly more, otherwise the PP goes limp as D can block out rebounds or any shot from down low.

Without Edler one timing shots the PP isn't going to score.


I can see why Ballard is useless in AV's mind, the guy doesn't do anything suprising with the puck, he takes forever to make a pass and he can't shoot at all.



The Defence is the key to Av's system and with Edler and Ballard being inconsistent we're not going to get the 3rd and 4th goals we should of had tonight.

We need Gudbranson paired with Edler, Luongo deal has to happen soon imo, GM knows what he wants.
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Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#262 Pineapples

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:05 AM

At the start of the shootout, I saw Henrik and Daniel standing beside the bench and I thought for a moment, wow both Sedins are gonna take a shot? Thought maybe they practiced it. Nope.

It's sad how our 1 shootout goal today is better than what we get most nights..
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#263 Tangelos

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:07 AM

Don't blame Edler for playing poorly. Every player players poorly during the course of the season.

It's the coaching staff that continues to give him top minutes. I'm guessing they hope that he'll just play his way out of the slump. That kind of goes against their "best players will get ice time" philosophy though.


Well he's a 5 million dollar d-man so he'd better get used to 22 minutes a game.
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#264 Ghostdivision

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:11 AM

Looking back, I agree about "he can't score goals" - it's not a great statement. But he's mixed his lines more this year than he has EVER in the last few years. He's trying to get them going.

I also think Schroeder should be centering the 3rd line, but is that going to make Booth score more? It didn't a few games ago when he was there. Is that going to ignite Burrows into scoring more?

At some point, the players need to wake up and figure it out. They're not rookies, this isn't their 1st rodeo, it's a short season and it's half way over. They need to score more goals or they're not going to win games.


I agree the players do need to hold some accountability, but i dont think av is utilizing them properly either.

Schroeder was given part of one game, lapierre has really contributed nothing to that line the last 3 games now, the lines dont make sense. I do think kassian and booth would get going because that line would benefit from a fast skater who dishes the puck well and distributes it to them. Lapierre does not pass, and is very slow moving up ice with his new muscle. Defensively i dont know where his head is at either, the other evening someone pointed out in calgary kassian had to cover for him of all people.

I am not saying they will score a ton of goals and answer every problem we have, but kassian and schroeder had chemistry in the ahl, and it makes more sense then what lapierre is doing out there on that line behind the play dumping it in.

Edited by Ghostdivision, 06 March 2013 - 01:17 AM.

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#265 DeNiro

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:17 AM

Well he's a 5 million dollar d-man so he'd better get used to 22 minutes a game.


Well technically he's not a 5 million dollar defenseman yet. And he's not even one next season. He makes 3.25 mil in the first year of his deal.

I could find quite a few defenseman who make over 3.25 million who play much worse than Edler is right now; on a full time basis.

Just saying, cut him some slack. He's struggling, but he's not the one who's choosing for him to play so many minutes. Hamhuis and Garrison are just as capable of playing those top minutes.

Edited by DeNiro, 06 March 2013 - 01:18 AM.

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#266 RunningWild

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:20 AM

I agree the players do need to hold some accountability, but i dont think av is utilizing them properly either.

Schroeder was given part of one game, lapierre has really contributed nothing to that line the last 3 games now, the lines dont make sense. I do think kassian and booth would get going because that line would benefit from a fast skater who dishes the puck well and distributes it to them. Lapierre does not pass, and is very slow moving up ice with his new muscle. Defensively i dont know where his head is at either, the other evening someone pointed out in calgary kassian had to cover for him of all people.


I know about Schroeder, I agree. In fact, I think most people agree. The only reason I can think of is Lappys a more responsible centre than Schroeder and better in face offs. You know how AV operates, he needs that one guy he can trust on every line. It ain't David Booth and it sure ain't Kassian.

Lappys been a bit off this year, but still effective defensivly. The weight he added this summer has slowed him down immensely IMO and he hasn't been able to pivot as well.
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#267 Tangelos

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:22 AM

Well technically he's not a 5 million dollar defenseman yet. And he's not even one next season. He makes 3.25 mil in the first year of his deal.

I could find quite a few defenseman who make over 3.25 million who play much worse than Edler is right now; on a full time basis.

Just saying, cut him some slack. He's struggling, but he's not the one who's choosing for him to play so many minutes. Hamhuis and Garrison are just as capable of playing those top minutes.


Garrison had one good season and can't skate. Not convinced. Also I wouldn't be opposed to trading Edler for an actual skilled 2nd liner. He is expendable at this point and we have too many 3rd line grinders playing top 6 minutes. Need more skill on the team.

Edited by Doug The Thug Glatt, 06 March 2013 - 01:23 AM.

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#268 Ghostdivision

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:27 AM

I know about Schroeder, I agree. In fact, I think most people agree. The only reason I can think of is Lappys a more responsible centre than Schroeder and better in face offs. You know how AV operates, he needs that one guy he can trust on every line. It ain't David Booth and it sure ain't Kassian.

Lappys been a bit off this year, but still effective defensivly. The weight he added this summer has slowed him down immensely IMO and he hasn't been able to pivot as well.


Agree with your first paragraph, was actually going to say the exact same thing regarding why av is doing it, but then decided not to incase someone tried to crucify me for acting like i know how av thinks :)

Edited by Ghostdivision, 06 March 2013 - 01:28 AM.

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#269 RunningWild

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:36 AM

Agree with your first paragraph, was actually going to say the exact same thing regarding why av is doing it, but then decided not to incase someone tried to crucify me for acting like i know how av thinks :)


Lol. I hear ya. That's the thing about AV, he's very predictable because of his deployments. It's been documented numerous times over the last few years, he's a very unique coach in that sense. So over time you can see patterns and you can see his thinking. It's pretty much the gimme reason as to why Lappys there and not Schroeder IMO - as much as none of us like it.
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#270 wallstreetamigo

wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:43 AM

"I didn't think we played with enough passion, enough heart," said Jets coach Claude Noel. "We never paid the price to win and we're not good enough to win easy."

How many times could this have been said by the Canucks this season and last?
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