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Jordan Shroeder Has Been Given Enough Time To Showcase His Talents!


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#91 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:45 PM

If you want to look at a cocky guy, maybe consider looking at the puck hog prima donna Ryan Kesler.


You do know I was being sarcastic with that comment?

I agree Kesler has attitude.
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#92 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:03 PM

Is it time to pull the plug so to speak on Jordan? He looks so tiny on the ice. In puck battles he loses the puck so easily. He's not exactly lighting it up for a prospect with scoring potential. He's speedy and improving defensively. I'm afraid to say I don't think Mr. Shroeder is going to turn into Nazem Kadri. I don't see the point of putting Jordan on the 4th line either.

I wouldn't be opposed to Shroeder being dangled as trade bait at the deadline. I really think he will struggle in the playoffs because of his size. I just wished Shroeder turned out to be a Paul Kariya type.

I want to see what Steve Pinozzato can do. I hope Canucks send Jordan down and bring Steve up soon.


Your'e right. Pull the plug on Shroeder. Lets see what Pinozatto can do. If Steve isnt an all-star after 30 games, lets bring up another prospect. If he doesnt light it up after 30 games, we'll bring up another prospect. If he isnt in line for the Hart Trophy after 30 games, we'll put in another prospect. If he isnt in the top 10 in scoring after 30 games, we'll bring in another prosepct.

I like the way this man thinks.
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#93 Understand

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:19 PM

He looks no worse than Booth and Raymond.
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#94 Cobra!

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:31 PM

He looks no worse than Booth and Raymond.


Not sure what that's supposed to mean, because that seemed to suggest that Booth and Raymond haven't been playing well... when they've both been playing quite well. Booth's been skating really hard. It's even been recognized by the commentators a few times now. He's due for a couple goals. Raymond's effort has been showing in his stat line this year (Guess that's what happens when you've had enough time to restrengthen your core after breaking your @$^&ing back. Give these guys a damn break once in a while!).
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#95 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:48 PM

It sure isn't hard to see why J Schultz chose Edmonton over Vancouver. He may have been presumptuous in his desire for a steady position without having played but I am sure he has seen the way other rookies are assimilated into AV's system and wasn't willing to spend 4-5 years of his development either in the minors or playig 3rd pairing minutes while the "vets" ruled by divine right under AV.

Shcultz could well have been the answer to our PP woes.

I like how Chicago has brought in Leddy and other young guys. They identify their role and put them on a line or pairing with a vet that can teach them the game from the position they will be in when they are developed. Kassian isn't going to learn to be a top 6 power forward playing bottom 6 limited minutes. Schroeder isn't ging to learn to be a small but fast set-up guy playing 4th line minutes with linemates like Weise and Sestito.
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#96 oldnews

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:54 PM

^
and ironically, Tanev isn't going to develop playing top 4 minutes alongside Edler...
nor Kassian top 6 minutes with Booth...
AV is such a rookie ballbuster...
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#97 shazzam

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

we are short on centers if u haven't noticed
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#98 CanuckianOne

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:07 PM

He's playing with 4th liners. He isn't in a position to showcase his talent.
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#99 Papayas

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:14 PM

hell ya! let's do what we did to Hodgson on his first year with the team, call him a bust, and trade his ass for pucks!

ya! this is totally new, refreshing, and original.

Edited by Piggy1983, 06 March 2013 - 10:36 PM.

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#100 CaNANDian

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:20 PM

He's a rookie, you guys are way too impatient.

Do you really want him to be traded like Grabner and Hodgson?
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#101 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:29 PM

I liked his stint on PP d .That shows the club recognises his abilities.


I agree.
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#102 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:43 PM

I don't know why he's playing with two plugs on the fourth line in Tom Sestito and Dale Weise. I don't know why Maxim Lapierre's playing with David Booth and Zack Kassian.

Booth needs a player that can dish him the puck mid-stride busting down the wing. Lapierre's can't distribute the puck. Schroeder can.

Schroeder needs a player that can win the puck battles for him down low. Kassian can do that and move to the front of the net.

See they all compliment each other.



Absolutely.

To a logical person this makes complete sense.

To AV on the other hand...

Great post.

People need to understand that Lapierre is by far the Canucks' best faceoff man at the present.

He's not going back to the 4th line until Kesler gets back at least...


He should be, its nice that he is great at faceoffs but he doesn't bring anything offensively and has no clue how the play with offensive players like Booth and Kassian.

Schroeder on the other hand does.

Put him on the 4th, & if we need a big faceoff win, put him out there. Faceoffs really aren't the be all and end all of what gets you from the top 9 with offensive guys to the 4th line.

Schroeder suits it more and would make the line better, I don't understand why AV hasn't made the change.

I thought he looked really strong playing the point on the power play. Confident and commanding the puck, and also distributing it.

Hell, aside from the Sedins, he looked in charge back there.

Not sure what game you were watching.


Same, thought he looked great in that role, really added what we have been missing from the PP.
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#103 Clark Kent

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:45 PM

the Raymond Schroeder Hansen line was sick.
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#104 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:54 PM

Are people on here that stupid?

I see comments about AV not allowing players to play offensively. Hmm lets think about that for a second.

1. He have 2 Art Ross trophy winners on this team
2. A 41 goal scoring selke winner
3. One of the highest scoring defensive corps in the league
4. Two years ago highest scoring team in the league and SCF appearance

But he doesn't let them play offensively? You want the west coast express, exciting hell ya but 5 goals against every night, thats a way to win in the NHL. Lol

Those who are stating he doesn't give his players rope have never played a minute of competitive hockey in their lives. Anyone who has knows one simple FACT.

Offense starts in your own zone. Its coverage, and counter attack, and being patient, when the other team exposes itself. It doesn't come from loosey goosey stretch passes. We don't have Pavel Bure on this team anymore folks. And moreoever, defense systems are too damn good to not pick those off and counter back and its in your net.

It would do a hell of alot of people on here some good, to strap on some skates, learn to play the game and then make comments, because its clear as day alot of people have no clue what the hell they are talking about.
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#105 Kack Zassian

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:58 PM

The manner in which they are used inflates those numbers. AS you yousefl said, they get 80% of toe O zone starts. That should lead to some pretty impressive for and against numbers unless they were completely useless.


The team as a whole has shown it struggles to score in the playoff environment. That to me indicates the system needs to be changed. Adding gifted players like Schroeder to the top 6 could help address this. Letting Kassian learn to be effective in the top 6 could address this. Instead, AV drops Schroeder to the 4th even with Kesler out and Kassian sees duty wherever between the 3rd and 4th lines. Who's going to protect the Sedins in the playoffs without drastically affecting their effectiveness? Is Lappy really going to be used to be a set up guy to pitch in offensively over Schroeder in the playoffs? How many Defensive-minded centeres does AV need? ...he has Selke award winning Kesler, Lappy and now Schroeder.

Come playoffs, how much of a factor will they be if needed in the top 6 role when they haven't had a chance to hone those skills all year.


The 80% Henrik zone start was mitigated my Manny taking only 13% offensive zone starts.
So really the only trickle down of lost offense is onto the 4th line.

More and more teams are adapting this strategy (maybe because it proved effective for the Canucks?)

So, your suggesting that adding rookies into our top-6 would provide us with more offense than guys like Booth, Higgins and Raymond?

In all fairness, Schroeder has had 4 games all year under 12 minutes... He isn't being dropped on the 4th line on a consistent basis. Even though he has 1 assist in the last 11 games... Kassian has 2 assists in his last 14 games (and 14 shots in that time). Don't know what they have done to earn top-6 time as of late..

Hate to say it, but these guys aren't viable top-6 options at the moment.
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#106 Kack Zassian

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:00 PM

He's playing with 4th liners. He isn't in a position to showcase his talent.


Schroeders most frequent linemates the last 10 games...

MASON RAYMOND JORDAN SCHROEDER DAVID BOOTH 6.8%


Those are some good 4th liners...

Edited by Kack Zassian, 06 March 2013 - 11:01 PM.

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#107 VCanucks69

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:07 PM

It took kesler 3-5 years developing before he came into his own.

You guys scream when they dont give guys a chance and when they do your ready to throw them under the bus in 10 games, so I think a little patience is in order. My opinion it takes about 3 years before you know what type of player your getting consistantly anyways, so give the kid a break he has had nice flashes of potential.
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#108 Kack Zassian

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:12 PM

And how has that worked when the going gets tough? Same system for 3 years now and it has gotten less and less effective even in the regular season.

Your acknowledgement of this strategy just confirms AV"s inability to actually coach an offensive strategy that deals with this and spreads the offence thorughout the lineup. It also shows that teh Sedins aren't as offensively gifted as the numbers perhaps indicate because they are given very preferential minutes and opportunities to anyone else on the team and basically in the league.


You know why Henrik was able to start 80% of his shifts in the o-zone? Because Malhotra was only playing 13% of his shifts in the o-zone.

What will be more effective at generating offense? An 80-20 split, or a 50-50 split when you have a capable 4th line (eg a Malhotra type who can soak up defensive zone starts)?

the 2nd issue: Why would you not put the Sedins in the most favorable opportunities possible?
You had Selke winning Kesler playing the toughest competition, the 4th line soaking up defensive zone starts, and this gives you sheltered minutes for your 1st and 3rd lines (who are typically weaker defensive players).

Sounds like ideal player utilization...

Obviously the loss of Malhotra really hurts as well as missing Kesler... but keep in mind Alain Vigneault had the #1 and #5 Selke vote getters at his disposal in Kesler/Malhotra.

Your center depth was
- 10th in Hart voting (flanked by 2nd in Hart voting)
- Selke winner
- Hodgson (extremely sheltered, soft competition 3C)
- 5th in Selke voting

AV was able to do his zone starts at
- 79%, 48%, 52% and 13 % (Sedin, Kesler, Hodgson, Malhotra)

Does that not make sense given his personel at the time?

*Hard to evaluate the zone starts for the team missing Kesler and Malhotra this year
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#109 jigsaw99

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:47 AM

for those saying Kadri is only succeeding because he's playing with opportunities on a crappy team need to wake up and smell the roses.

1. Toronto has more points in the standings than the Canucks and their top 9 offensive player is now matchable to Canucks current lineup.

2. Kadri plays on the 2nd line NOT on the 1st with JVR and Kessel but with Kuliemen/Graboski. Kadri has about as many point as those two combined.

3. With Kesler out, you would think this is the perfect time to give Schroeder that opportunity but our rookie hating coach prefers to give Raymond and Lappy "less points than Schreoder" on the top 3 lines.
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#110 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:53 AM

for those saying Kadri is only succeeding because he's playing with opportunities on a crappy team need to wake up and smell the roses.

1. Toronto has more points in the standings than the Canucks and their top 9 offensive player is now matchable to Canucks current lineup.

2. Kadri plays on the 2nd line NOT on the 1st with JVR and Kessel but with Kuliemen/Graboski. Kadri has about as many point as those two combined.

3. With Kesler out, you would think this is the perfect time to give Schroeder that opportunity but our rookie hating coach prefers to give Raymond and Lappy "less points than Schreoder" on the top 3 lines.


Actually Kadri is playing on the third with Komarov and MacArthur. He would have been great here.
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#111 Kack Zassian

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

3. With Kesler out, you would think this is the perfect time to give Schroeder that opportunity but our rookie hating coach prefers to give Raymond and Lappy "less points than Schreoder" on the top 3 lines.


Schroeder has had 4 games under 12 minutes this season, and only 1 of those was under 10 minutes.

Hes also averaged 3 minutes a game on the PP (24 seconds/game less than Burrows).

All this, despite 1 assist in his last 11 games.

Wanna tell me again about how our coach hates rookies?
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#112 jigsaw99

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:06 AM

Schroeder has had 4 games under 12 minutes this season, and only 1 of those was under 10 minutes.

Hes also averaged 3 minutes a game on the PP (24 seconds/game less than Burrows).

All this, despite 1 assist in his last 11 games.

Wanna tell me again about how our coach hates rookies?

he plays with Siesto and Weise.
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#113 jigsaw99

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:10 AM

Wanna tell me again about how our coach hates rookies?


Shirokov player of the game one game and gets benched for the rest of the game after one period for no reason.

Same with Grabner who gets benched for no reason

Hodgson after winning rookie of the year in January gets demoted to 4th line
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#114 CRAZY_4_NAZZY

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:31 AM

Some people don't realize is that AV coached in Manitoba and pretty much primed the likes of Ryan Kesler, Alex Burrows, Jannick Hansen, Mason Raymond, Kevin Bieksa, and Alex Edler. Either he has coached them through the AHL or from the first year they broke out in the club. AV is not a rookie hater perse. But I would suggest that he is more inclined to go to the players who he knows has got it done in the past and who are getting it done now.

IMO he did at points allow Grabner to shine with Kesler and Raymond and had a great stint with them. He may have not been on great terms with Hodgson but understood his talent and used him in the right situations to succeed and he did. He even a year before allowed Hodgson to absorb the NHL experience on the fourth line and a year later, he broke out and why?? Because Cody was able to finally adjust and understand the speed of the game. The mental durability it takes to go through an NHL grind of the season. SHirokov , well that was a one hit wonder with him in the preseason.

But look at rookies now like Schneider, Tanev, (former Cody Hodgson), and now Jordan Schroeder. he is priming them appropriately. Just because you are skilled and a great player means you automatically get slayed as the go to guy. Look at Burrows, Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Bieksa and Schneider and more fought for their ranks through AV's system. In regards to those who are sayhing AV is a rookie hater...he isn't. he just understands the game well enough when to expose them and when not to. AV is a smart coach and knows the game quite well.
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#115 Honky Cat

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:37 AM

Shirokov player of the game one game and gets benched for the rest of the game after one period for no reason.

Same with Grabner who gets benched for no reason

Hodgson after winning rookie of the year in January gets demoted to 4th line


All three of these players did have some good spurts ..and then tailed off.Its very difficult to achieve consistency in the NHL..Furthermore,all three of these players were irresponsible defensively..that will land you in AVs doghouse.

Schroeder is having some consistency issues,but he has worked on his two way game..which is one of the reasons he's still here
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#116 Dildo Faggins

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:39 AM

I wish Jensen could take Schroeder's place.

Edited by Heli_Kopitar, 07 March 2013 - 02:39 AM.

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#117 Kack Zassian

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:48 AM

he plays with Siesto and Weise.


For 2 games?

This is his most frequent line mates the last 10 games

MASON RAYMOND JORDAN SCHROEDER DAVID BOOTH 6.8%


*Sestito Weise Schroeder have been together for less than 1/2 the shifts Raymond, Schroeder and Booth have the last 10 games.
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#118 Kack Zassian

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:04 AM

Shirokov player of the game one game and gets benched for the rest of the game after one period for no reason.

Same with Grabner who gets benched for no reason

Hodgson after winning rookie of the year in January gets demoted to 4th line


- Because Shirokov really proved a lot in his 8 career NHL games right? Lets try a larger sample size maybe

- This is the Michael Grabner who went on waivers because he wasn't in NHL shape...
(also, interesting note, Grabner averaged 44 points/ season over the last 3 years, Raymond has averaged 44 points/season over 3 years).

- Hodgson had an entire FIVE games last season where he was under 10 mins/game. Sure, some nights he got 12, other nights he got 16. He also got to play some of the most sheltered minutes possible last year.

BUT

- Lets just ignore Schroeder seeing nearly 3 mins of PP time (despite 1 assist in his last 11 games)

- Or Kassians 2 assists and 14 shots in his last 14 games, his -5 in that stretch, but yeah well give him around 14 minutes a game (and 2:14/game on the PP).
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#119 High Violet

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:08 AM

Under AV, prospects never shine.

You are so right it makes me depressed.
I hate the truth. But is it really AV? Maybe it's because the team is doing 'well', as in they've been in "win now" mode for the last few years that they don't really care so much about prospects.
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#120 Kack Zassian

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

You are so right it makes me depressed.
I hate the truth. But is it really AV? Maybe it's because the team is doing 'well', as in they've been in "win now" mode for the last few years that they don't really care so much about prospects.


- Lets just ignore Schroeder seeing nearly 3 mins of PP time (despite 1 assist in his last 11 games)

- Or Kassians 2 assists and 14 shots in his last 14 games, his -5 in that stretch, but yeah well give him around 14 minutes a game (and 2:14/game on the PP).

Yeah AV really hates rookies :rolleyes: smh
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