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Your PP fix


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#31 Avicii

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

Trade for Ehrhoff
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#32 Zissou

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:18 PM

switch the PP formation. No more umbrella where all the shots come from the perimeter, usually around the half-wall. And as has been said, more traffic.
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#33 CanadianRugby

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

Fire the PP coach.
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#34 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:41 PM

I'm going to buck the trend and agree with you also, Wallstreet. Hank needs to pull the trigger a bit more often. Not only that, but it seems like Burrows is picking up the same habit. That pss that he tried to thread through to Hammer last night is case in point.

Another guy who passes up the shot way too often is Tanev. The OT winner against the Oil proves that he has the shot, he just needs to use it a lot more...


:shock: You are agreeing with me too? Who are you and what the hell did you do to Rupert??????

Seriously though I also see that with Burrows. A bit too fancy in situations where he absolutely would have taken the shot previously.

I see the Canucks as a whole making that one extra pass way too often actually. Other teams pass a few times and shoot. The Canucks pass 20 times waiting for the perfect shot opportunity to develop. Sometimes you have to just get pucks on net and make your own perfect storm.
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#35 theminister

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:41 PM

I'm thinking I should just repeat everything I said in the Ballard thread.
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#36 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:46 PM

Trade for Ehrhoff


Boy does our PP and our transition game in general miss him...Hate the guy or not, he was a much bigger key to our offense than he got credit for when he left - it is no surpise the Sedins went from PPG players to over 100 points when he was here. He just FIT on our PP with them and could actually hit the net......they need to get a guy who can fill that role. Expecting Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa, or Garrison to do it - and letting Ehrhoff go - is a MASSIVE fail by the Canucks and AV especially.

They do have a guy who could be serviceable in that role in Ballard but fat chance that happening.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 06 March 2013 - 12:47 PM.

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#37 spliced

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:00 PM

Garrison on the 1st PP unit, Edler on the second(for now and see how it goes).

More movement and urgency to shoot when going against 3 defenders. You should not be going long periods without chances against 3 defenders.

It's hard because I'd like to see both an aggressive playmaker like Schroeder and someone who can play in front of the net like Burrows, but with the Sedins taking up 2 spots you can only have one or the other unless you play one at the point which I don't really like.
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#38 Steve Carell

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

KASS in front screening....garrison with a booming shot...Tanev for defensive safety....sedins

HIGGY Raymond hansen.... Barker seems to find seams and get shots through.... Edler I guess ...at least Raymond can cover defensively with his speed ....

I think the reason the game lines are always screwed with is because av always has to have defensively responsible peeps on each line.... ie...sedins/ burr
That's why KASS isn't with them....


I don't think we need our most offensively challenged dman on the powerplay just to play great defence. If this is in response to the SHG last night against the Canucks, Schneids should have never let that in.

I would propose these lines:

PP1
Sedin - Sedin - Kassian.
Edler - Garrison.

PP2
Higgins - Raymond - Burrows.
Hamhuis - Barker.

When everyone is healthy, that's a different story:

PP1
Sedin - Sedin - Kassian.
Edler - Garrison.

PP2
Higgins - Kesler - Burrows.
Hamhuis - Bieksa.
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#39 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

and letting Ehrhoff go - is a MASSIVE fail by the Canucks and AV especially.


???

What did AV have to do with letting Ehrhoff go?
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#40 theminister

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

What's truly amazing to me about our most recent PP set-up is to have Schroeder on the 1st unit and then allow Edler to be the puck carrier rather than the off-side d-man, and then having him cover the point without Edler taking one timers. What is the point in that?
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#41 wendythirteenthrashers

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

I don't think we need our most offensively challenged dman on the powerplay just to play great defence. If this is in response to the SHG last night against the Canucks, Schneids should have never let that in.

I would propose these lines:

PP1
Sedin - Sedin - Kassian.
Edler - Garrison.

PP2
Higgins - Raymond - Burrows.
Hamhuis - Barker.

When everyone is healthy, that's a different story:

PP1
Sedin - Sedin - Kassian.
Edler - Garrison.

PP2
Higgins - Kesler - Burrows.
Hamhuis - Bieksa.




tanev also rarely bobbles the puck at the line and is a smooth passer
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#42 Steve Carell

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

tanev also rarely bobbles the puck at the line and is a smooth passer


This is true, but he doesn't like to shoot. He had multiple chances to last night, but instead just passed it off.

We need people on the blue line who won't be afraid to grip and rip.
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#43 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

???

What did AV have to do with letting Ehrhoff go?


There's the Rupert we all know and hate.....lol

Nothing. AV is the one though who thinks any of those 4 guys is a good replacement for what Ehrhoff brought to the table....which is an epic failure in and of itself. And honestly, you think AV had no input on whether the rest of the team could make up for that loss? Absolutely he did.

MG is the one who never should have let Ehrhoff go. He should have let Bieksa walk if they could only keep one or if AV was not going to try to use Ballard in that role or kept both and traded Ballard. Bieksa brings a lot but his skillset is more replaceable especially when he becomes a high risk type guy like he has this year and last. If they used him and Hamhuis as shutdown guys I would think differently but once Ehrhoff was let go AV changed their role.....and sure they put up points but they caused a lot more against us too and were not nearly as effective overall. We already have Edler who is very high risk and shaky defensively......Ballard could have easily taken Bieksa's role on the team other than the coach's infatuation with right handed shots on D. At their best they are similar players

At the time, trading Ballard even for a pick would have actually amounted to trading Ballard for Ehrhoff (because they got t keep him for similar money). Any GM would do that deal I bet. The opportunity cost of stubbornly keeping Ballard to not use him was losing Ehrhoff.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 06 March 2013 - 01:21 PM.

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#44 aqua59

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

KASS in front screening....garrison with a booming shot...Tanev for defensive safety....sedins

HIGGY Raymond hansen.... Barker seems to find seams and get shots through.... Edler I guess ...at least Raymond can cover defensively with his speed ....

I think the reason the game lines are always screwed with is because av always has to have defensively responsible peeps on each line.... ie...sedins/ burr
That's why KASS isn't with them....


You bring Barker's name up. Why has it taken this long for AV to use this guy. Since he played nervous first shift he's gotten better and visibly more comfortable with the more ice time he's gotten.
Why did it take AV so long? I'm more comfortable watching Barker with the puck than I am with Andrew Alberts handling it.

One thing Barker brings to the table is that he's won a Stanley Cup. That will come in handy. Play this guy more AV!
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#45 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

What's truly amazing to me about our most recent PP set-up is to have Schroeder on the 1st unit and then allow Edler to be the puck carrier rather than the off-side d-man, and then having him cover the point without Edler taking one timers. What is the point in that?


this......
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#46 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

There's the Rupert we all know and hate.....lol

Nothing. AV is the one though who thinks any of those 4 guys is a good replacement for what Ehrhoff brought to the table....which is an epic failure in and of itself. And honestly, you think AV had no input on whether the rest of the team could make up for that loss? Absolutely he did.

MG is the one who never should have let Ehrhoff go. He should have let Bieksa walk if they could only keep one or if AV was not going to try to use Ballard in that role. Bieksa brings a lot but his skillset is more replaceable especially when he becomes a high risk type guy like he has this year and last. If they used him and Hamhuis as shutdown guys I would think differently but once Ehrhoff was let go AV changed their role.....and sure they put up points but they caused a lot more against us too and were not nearly as effective overall. We already have Edler who is very high risk and shaky defensively......Ballard could have easily taken Bieksa's role on the team other than the coach's infatuation with right handed shots on D. At their best they are similar players.


Nice work Wallstreet. I knew you could come up with some twisted way to blame AV for something that had nothing to do with him. :)

You're always entertaining, I'll give you that...
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#47 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:24 PM

Nice work Wallstreet. I knew you could come up with some twisted way to blame AV for something that had nothing to do with him. :)

You're always entertaining, I'll give you that...


AV is the one who thinks any of those 4 guys replace Ehrhoff on the ice......that is absolutely a coaching fail as none are suited for it.

I don't see how anyone could say that AV is isolated from that situation. He is the coach. h decides who does what.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 06 March 2013 - 01:26 PM.

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#48 dildo_baggins

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

PP1
Sedin - Sedin - Higgins. (higgins is not afraid to stand infront of the net and has good hands in tight after rebounds)
Hamhuis - Garrison

PP2
Booth - Burrows - Kassian.
Edler - Barker.
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#49 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

AV is the one who thinks any of those 4 guys  replace Ehrhoff on the ice......that is absolutely a coaching fail as none are suited for it.

I don't see how anyone could say that AV is isolated from that situation. He is the coach. h decides who does what.


He doesn't decide who gets offered what contract, which is what we were debating.

He doesn't have a lot of choice regarding who replces Ehrhoff, since he can only play the guys that Gillis gives him.

BTW: My reputation points say that I'm not nearly as "hated" as you seem to think...
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#50 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

He doesn't decide who gets offered what contract, which is what we were debating.

He doesn't have a lot of choice regarding who replces Ehrhoff, since he can only play the guys that Gillis gives him.

BTW: My reputation points say that I'm not nearly as "hated" as you seem to think...


just joking around with you man.....you made me go check my reputation points as I don't even think about them. It was nice to find out I am not as clueless as you make me out to be either...;)

And I am pretty sure AV had some part int he discussion about Ehrhoff......I mean, if AV thought he was irreplaceable would they not have tried to keep him?

It is showing now that with this current group plus what the coach is or is not willing to try and what the GM can or can't do to bring in another player of that skillset.....Ehrhoff really was irreplaceable.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 06 March 2013 - 01:44 PM.

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#51 thechamps

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:50 PM

lack of confidence and determination. I think that sums it up. The skill is there but just the lack of confidence.
4-3 OT PP they were handling it like a hot potato. Except at the very end hansen drove it to the net that was the only power move.

When Bieksa was around he would be the one that steps up when nobody wants it, carry it in, or take the shot when nobody's taking it. Same when erhoff was around.

I think Barker will do well on the points. Tanev needs to work on his shot then he'd be a great fit, nice and calm. Schroeder's starting to look good too. Haven't bought in to garrison yet, he seems to playing like he's lost most of the time on what his role is offensively...just get open and pound it...

the or's can be rotated out any given night

PP1
Sedins -(Kassian/Burrows)
Schroeder-(Garrison/Edler)

PP2
Hansen-Raymond-(Higgins/Sestito)
Hamhuis-(Barker/Ballard)
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#52 Aladeen

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:52 PM

There's the Rupert we all know and hate.....lol

Nothing. AV is the one though who thinks any of those 4 guys is a good replacement for what Ehrhoff brought to the table....which is an epic failure in and of itself. And honestly, you think AV had no input on whether the rest of the team could make up for that loss? Absolutely he did.

MG is the one who never should have let Ehrhoff go. He should have let Bieksa walk if they could only keep one or if AV was not going to try to use Ballard in that role or kept both and traded Ballard. Bieksa brings a lot but his skillset is more replaceable especially when he becomes a high risk type guy like he has this year and last. If they used him and Hamhuis as shutdown guys I would think differently but once Ehrhoff was let go AV changed their role.....and sure they put up points but they caused a lot more against us too and were not nearly as effective overall. We already have Edler who is very high risk and shaky defensively......Ballard could have easily taken Bieksa's role on the team other than the coach's infatuation with right handed shots on D. At their best they are similar players

At the time, trading Ballard even for a pick would have actually amounted to trading Ballard for Ehrhoff (because they got t keep him for similar money). Any GM would do that deal I bet. The opportunity cost of stubbornly keeping Ballard to not use him was losing Ehrhoff.

I agree letting Erhoff walk was big mistake... but it was the length... its obvious AV wanted him back its obvious Gillis wanted him back but in reality the length of the contract is what did it... imagine having Luongo's and Erhoff's Lifetime contracts on the books? I wonder what CDC would be like if the PP was still struggling and we still had Erhoff

Erhoff was offered a pretty reasonable contract... Identical to Bieksa's if I'm not mistaken. Its not like they didn't try to sign him, sometimes the best you can offer is just not enough :sadno:

Edited by Aladeen, 06 March 2013 - 01:57 PM.

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#53 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

I agree letting Erhoff walk was big mistake... but it was the length... its obvious AV wanted him back its obvious Gillis wanted him back but in reality the length of the contract is what did it... imagine having Luongo's and Erhoff's Lifetime contracts on the books? I wonder what CDC would be like if the PP was still struggling and we still had Erhoff

Erhoff was offered a pretty reasonable contract... Identical to Bieksa's if I'm not mistaken. Its not like they didn't try to sign him, sometimes the best you can offer is just not enough :sadno:


I think that may be why he left though. He deserved MORE than Bieksa.

The term was pretty ridiculous but it never should have gotten to that point. Gillis rolled the dice thinking every player wants to accept it his way without question and let it go too long to get a more reasonable deal done. Ehrhoff gets a lot of flack for taking the money and some of that is deserved. I don't think even a 10 year contract at 4 million per for an offensive D would have been that bad or an albatross. It is not like he was old at the time of signing it and sometimes that kind of fixed cost for many years is a good thing. 10 years no....but 7? or 8? Why not? He would have still been movable down the road imo. I mean, he gave Garrison what 6 years at 4.6? And Edler got 5 million for 6 years, didnt he? How is that any better really?

The real mistake was the disconnect between Gillis and AV about just where Ballard would be expected to fit in if Ehrhoff was not kept. I think Gillis expected Ballard would be given that role and AV had other ideas. The best solution would have been Gillis admitting he made a mistake trading for a guy who the coach will not utilize and traded him for anything he could get to keep Ehrhoff.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 06 March 2013 - 02:37 PM.

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#54 Captain Can

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

Changing the lines doesn't help anything if they don't change the plan. Every time a team struggles on the pp, eventually they seem to realize they need to simplify and get pucks on net with traffic and then they start to produce. They have one more guy then the other team, so any rebounds or loose pucks should be theirs most of the time. I see Burrows getting knocked around in front of the net out there, and for nothing, because they don't get the puck to the net.
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#55 canuck73_3

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:48 PM

I think our PP (and our whole game actually) would be much more unpredictable if Henrik would learn to shoot the puck a lot more than he does. He has a great shot when he uses it but you can see that teams know he will not shoot, so they cover the point guys like Edler much closer for the shot. Henrik still makes them look foolish with his sick passing of course but add in the unpredictability of a possible shot and it makes Henrik the focus leaving the points more open to shoot the puck.


I completely agree with this, to add to it I would like Edler removed from the PP at least until he can be effective again as of right now it is not working at all. I saw one legitimate scoring chance all game on the PP, and it didn't come until the last few minutes of the game and was only because of Stuart getting hit with a puck making it basically a 5 on 3.

I would also like to see Ballard and Garrison as the D pair on the first unit it is where they made names for themselves in the past.
It was a little easier to keep Ballard off the point before when we had Edler playing well with Salo and Ehrhoff and Bieksa but no there is no excuse for Ballard not to be on the PP. It's not like we use him as a shut down D so AV and Bowness can't say we're saving his legs defensively.
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#56 theminister

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:04 PM

I completely agree with this, to add to it I would like Edler removed from the PP at least until he can be effective again as of right now it is not working at all. I saw one legitimate scoring chance all game on the PP, and it didn't come until the last few minutes of the game and was only because of Stuart getting hit with a puck making it basically a 5 on 3.

I would also like to see Ballard and Garrison as the D pair on the first unit it is where they made names for themselves in the past.
It was a little easier to keep Ballard off the point before when we had Edler playing well with Salo and Ehrhoff and Bieksa but no there is no excuse for Ballard not to be on the PP. It's not like we use him as a shut down D so AV and Bowness can't say we're saving his legs defensively.


For two days we were discussing AV's use of Ballard and his lack of PP time in the other thread. At the time you made no mention of support for Ballard getting PP time let alone 1st unit PP time. Instead you said that the 'cream rises to the top.'

Today you say you agree with this assessment.

What happened in the last 48 hours that made you decide that Ballard was now the cream and that the coaching staff is using him incorrectly?
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#57 SamJamIam

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:08 PM

  • Guy who jostles in front of the net (doesn't have to be huge as Burrows and Kesler do a damn good job of this). This year Kes and Burr spend far less time here and it makes things far too easy on our opponents both on the original shot and gives them ample time to clear rebounds
  • Collapse down when the opportunity presents itself. The perimeter is a good place to be for retaining possession after a rebound pops out of the slot, or to shake checks and shift the defenders. But if you're not taking one-timers, defense should collapse in and forwards should do the same. This makes passes and one-timers quicker, leaving the goalie and defenders less time to react and uses the PK group as a massive screen on the goalie. This also means rebounds are much less likely to be retrieved and cleared by the PK
  • Oh yeah, and 2 defenders who can one-time it aka Garrison and Edler
That's pretty much it. Honestly, our ability to control and protect the puck on the PP is a huge foundation to build on. We're not as far off from being an offensive juggernaut on the PP as some people seem to think. It really does look like this team has taken a step back though, which I get is frustrating. Personally, I almost wonder if they're sandbagging because they've abandoned a lot of common sense hockey plays.
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#58 Apples

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

Sedin Sedin Kassin
Edler Garrison
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#59 canuckelhead70

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

maybe instead of having 3 players standing on the blueline waiting for our defenceman to race up the ice and drop pass the puck to one forward racing to get it before the other team does, maybe try to enter the zone with speed and back the oppontent up in their own zone.

watch games from 09-10 on how the pp worked in those seasons. Sami Salo point shot

shoot the puck from the point, if it doesn't get through, that means you hit someone with it, in turn next time your take a slap shot someone might not be willing to take another puck shot to the body.
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#60 canuck73_3

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

For two days we were discussing AV's use of Ballard and his lack of PP time in the other thread. At the time you made no mention of support for Ballard getting PP time let alone 1st unit PP time. Instead you said that the 'cream rises to the top.'

Today you say you agree with this assessment.

What happened in the last 48 hours that made you decide that Ballard was now the cream and that the coaching staff is using him incorrectly?


I've given up on Edler playing out of his slump on the PP, and the PP has nowhere to go but up with Ballard or Garrison on it at this time. Believe it or not I admit when I'm wrong on subjects.
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credit to canuckforever00 for the sig :)

RIP Luc Bourdon




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