RUPERTKBD Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I only do that with people who I may disagree with but have respect for their ability to make good arguments that actually make me consider what they say.... in other words, I do it for maybe 10 people total on CDC...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't think he hates rookies, really the only case I have an issue with is Shirokov, as he played well, scored and AV benched him for no reason, he could have helped this team IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 To be honest, I wouldn't have minded the 34 goals on this team instead of a defenseman sitting in the press box. This season is only Grabner's third full year in the NHL. He had 11 points in 20 games for the Canucks before we dealt him. Slumped a bit last year, but looks to have refound his scoring touch this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I disagree. I don't think that's a fair assumption at all. Everyone watches Moneyball and assumes that the tension between Art Howe and Billy Beane is the norm, when it's actually the exception. Coaches and managers have regular meetings, where players' roles are discussed and their development analyzed. In fact, Gillis has stated many times that Cody Hodgson's ice time and usage were carefully planned out by the entire coaching and management team. It's highly unlikely, IMO, that Coho was/is the only player that they would do this for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Grabner was known to be a goal scorer and that's something this team needed secondary scoring, but because of AV he didn't like is defensive game, so he get's limited time and then of course is traded, go figure. And your comparing his stats with Raymond, last time I checked Raymond plays on a 1st place team and Grabner plays on a last place team. (last 3 seasons Raymond = 147gp = 71points ppg/avg 0.48, Grabner = 177gp = 96points ppg/avg 0.54, even though Grabner played more games he still has a better ppg average) Funny how Shirokov was able to produce more points in the AHL then Shroeder, they gave Shirokov a chance in 6 games he didn't get much done, so he was sent back to the minors, no argue there. He did a great job in the minors for 2 seasons, get's a chance to play again for the Canucks only gets 2 games, played decent didn't see anything bad about his game, even got an assist, then was told he would be sent back down, go figure probably because AV didn't like his defensive game. Well we all know MG was show casing him for a trade, so I guess AV had no choice but to play him. But once again AV didn't want to play him because he didn't like his defesnive game what's new, even though with most of the time playing 3rd line minutes and still producing points, and scoring or helping goals scored at key moments of games, clutch goals. And the fact that your 3rd line rookie centerman is out performing your verteran 2nd line center, yet you don't want to send a message to your 2nd line center to step up his game, because your a weak coach and scared. Do you not realize AV doesn't run the PP Newell Brown runs the PP, so AV may have a say, but he doesn't get to chose who plays what postion or where on the PP. Or the fact that AV has Schroeder playing on the 4th line? Have you not seen the size of this guy, he is not a 4th liner, unless you want him to get hurt maybe that's what AV is wanting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Im just trying to make sense of how Gillis makes claims such as how Kassian was going to have an impact last year, or why he signed Garrison to a huge contract and we never see him on the powerplay. Is there a problem with our scouting? Gillis gets Garrison, presumably to replace Salo on the powerplay, and AV gives up on him after a handful of games. How does that meeting go? Why cant Gillis get the players AV wants? You claim they are on the same page, but it doesnt look like they are to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Would the Sedins play if the team was full of Crosby's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marleau_12 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 He ran out of time here. I don't know why that's so difficult to grasp. 1 - He took too long to develop and had become waiver eligble. 2 - He had a history of showing up to camp in poor shape. 3 - Our entire top six just finished a career year 4 - As a result of 2 and 3 he had no chance of making this team out of camp. 5 - As a result of 1 and 4 the only logical thing to do was trade him. It's so pointless whining about trading Grabner. If he wasn't traded he would have been lost to waivers. Something is always better than nothing. Which is what we would have had if Grabner wasn't traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 He must be in shape now. Management could have been harder on the kid, as the NYI management must be cause they love him over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 He must be in shape now. Management could have been harder on the kid, as the NYI management must be cause they love him over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 /Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I wish the Canucks were a bottomfeeder so our prospects could get more ice time. They'd get a chance to develop like the players on last place teams like Buffalo and Edmonton, where kids get to learn by playing and making mistakes and not worry too much about not being very competitive. And then those players would develop into solid roster veterans - like the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Hansen, Edler, Bieksa etc - and the team would have a deep veteran lineup, not needing to rely upon rookies in the top 6 and top 4... At that point, we'd be like the RedWings, where prospects don't develop on the job, they are added to the roster when they're ready to contribute to a contender. That might actually be a better way to integrate young players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Your presuming Garrison was brought in to play the power play. I don't recall management ever stating that. What I do know is that Garrison played almost 25 minutes last night. Strange, considering that AV "has little use" for him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 What do you think he was brought here for, to be a defensive stalwart?!.Garrison had 16 goals last year, 9 of them on the powerplay. The Canucks lost Salo and still havent replaced Ehrhoff. If Gillis brought Garrison in to be anything other then a powerplay specialist, I think that would be a far more serious indictment of Gillis' abilities as a GM. Certainly more serious then my suspicion that hes not on the same page as Vigneault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 My observation is work rate is the single biggest factor in attributing minutes with AV. ie; if Rome works harder than Ballard he gets more minutes? The harder you work, the more minutes and further up the line you play? If Hansen works harder than ??? Its not a bad concept! Except at times, a better physical talent < sometimes puck possession skills, sometimes 220 lbs of beef that can smash things < can still outperform the hardest worker. And combining talents can offer the most results? Hey ON; you seem to have stats at your fingertips. Can u tell us how much ice time, zone starts etc would be relevent for Brendon Saad & Andrew Shaw in Chicago? Both are on par or younger than Schroeder & Kassian by memory. But Quenneville seems to have systems were he pairs lines based on physical match ups. Thats been my observation since we saw he noticed that nobody could handle Byfuglien in front of our net. Rookie; aggh what the heck? Saad your 205 lbs and quick, lets have you bash it up for Hossa and Toews. It seems Chicago always runs balanced lines; talent (Toews), size (Hossa) and mucker with speed (Saad). Similar comparisons could be made of Kane/Sharp/Bolland, Staalberg/Shaw/Bickel line (in a 3rd line sense). I can't help think that Twins/Kass, Booth/Schroeder/Burrows, Raymond/Lapierre/Hanson, Higgin/Ebbet/Weise gives every line a better chance to play two way hockey? Maybe the top line does not score so much, but the other lines all now have a play maker, size and a "glue" guy who wins the puck. And it does not force Kassian or Schroeder to single handed control the play for their line > both are playing with two vets.. Anywhoo; I'm a fan not a hockey coach.Just seems odd that other teams can find roles that rookies can fill. Same could be said in Philly, or LA, Boston had young guys going when we played them... I think its an issue of the role they are being asked to play? If folks want a contender, contenders have deep lineups and rookies need to be able to play responsible two way hockey. Do the RedWings hate rookies? No, they develop them until they are ready. If folks want to compete for a lottery pick, they can do as the Sabres do and throw their rookies in the top 6, let them get exposed and learn on the job, play losing hockey, and brag about the opportunities they give rookies. I'll opt for AV's approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeywoot Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 AV doesn't hate rookies. He doesn't like losing games. His job is first and foremost to help us win games, not develop prospects. AV has two requirements: 1) Help us win..........produce 2) don't hurt the team/make us lose.........play good defensive hockey I have no doubt if AV was the coach when the twins came into the league, they'd score a little less, but they would play a 200ft game. They'd be the type of players we could have used in the finals. AV prefers vets over rookies. Understandable. Vets make 'rookie mistakes' far less often. Rookies often repeat these mistakes. I will say, my one criticism is that rookies are put on TOO SHORT of a leash. I think Kassian was taken off the top line far too quickly. That's about it though. Schroeder needs more seasoning. It's clear as day. He needs to produce to be successful. He needs to be in the top 6. But to stay in the top 6, you MUST produce, otherwise the coach will play players who can. Think of Tanev being sent down last year, to get top-pairing minutes. And he was playing well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I will say, my one criticism is that rookies are put on TOO SHORT of a leash. I think Kassian was taken off the top line far too quickly. That's about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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