Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* * * - - 9 votes

The teams mentality is the problem.


  • Please log in to reply
145 replies to this topic

#1 dangler696969

dangler696969

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 563 posts
  • Joined: 23-August 11

Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:14 AM

*
POPULAR

It seems like ever since the Canucks lost to Boston in the SCF they have been a different team. Even last year when they were Presidents trophy winners, they rarely impressed and kind of just coasted through the season into the playoffs. We all know how that turned out...

I truly think that the stanley cup final messed with their heads. I'm talking about Bieksa, Burrows, the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Hamhuis and most of all AV. We all hoped that after they lost in the final that they would bounce back even better then before, but that idea is quickly fading. If anything, the drive for hockey vanished that fateful day, and they realized that there are better and more important things than hockey, like wives, kids, vacation houses, private yachts, etc. And then of course we have Jesus boy David Booth sitting in the corner preaching that hockey is just a small part of his life and that the fans don't understand, and oh yeah how much he loves God and Jesus.

That brings me to AV. You can totally see that AV has lost the room. He made all of his core players way too comfortable with their jobs and status on the team. The entire core got complacent and since getting huge contracts and wives and kids they have lost their emotions that made them such an exciting team in the years leading up to 2012. AV needs to go so a new coach can come in and actually threaten some jobs that AV wouldn't have the guts to do. Im talking about you Edler.

Edited by dangler696969, 08 March 2013 - 01:16 AM.

  • 24

#2 PlayStation

PlayStation

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,237 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 08

Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:16 AM

*
POPULAR

I agree with you on most points. Simply havent seen any heart or hunger on the ice, not looking very good.
2011 was special, it just felt different (talking about the regular season) I honestly can't say I believe in blue this year so far. Sad to say, but its true. If the team doesnt seem to believe, it would be stupid for me to do so.
  • 5
Posted Image


"Real Men" :bigblush:

#3 KeslerBEAST

KeslerBEAST

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 172 posts
  • Joined: 14-November 09

Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:29 AM

still relying on their lame "win it on the powerplay" bull, it's not working now and now they can't win games

learn how to play 5v5 ffs

pretty much played 5v5 most of the game against columbus and we lose, columbus is the WORST 5v5 team in the west right now

but they're pretty much a lock in for 3rd place I'm not too worried yet B)

Edited by KeslerBEAST, 08 March 2013 - 02:50 AM.

  • 0

#4 brewdog

brewdog

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 356 posts
  • Joined: 30-June 12

Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:39 AM

*
POPULAR

Maybe falling out of 1st in the division and being in a proper dogfight for points will wake them up.
  • 5

#5 EagleShield

EagleShield

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 388 posts
  • Joined: 18-February 13

Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:35 AM

We are now in a situation where losing our next game could put us out of 1st in the division for the first time in about 5 years. And no one seems to care. We played the worst team in the NHL last night, and not only did we lose, we deserved to lose, they payed far better than us. It's just crazy how far we've fallen since 2011.
  • 0

#6 panelguy

panelguy

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 603 posts
  • Joined: 31-December 05

Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:39 AM

No killer instict with this team in fact I think every opponent is just drooling to play the Canucks because they all know how to stop them .
Their easy to beat right now.
  • 0

#7 canuktravella

canuktravella

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,064 posts
  • Joined: 12-October 12

Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:44 AM

your dead on. This team didnt have the grit or determination to beat the bruins but gillis has stayed with the same coach, same system, same core relatively. We need to change coaches and systems and maybe minor tweak in core to win. Kassian is a beast he should be sitting in front of net on pp getting garbage goals and playing with sedins. Our centers need to feed the d pucks for onetimers especially garrison, isnt that why we brought him here....???? edler either needs to be sat or traded hes playing so bad and no one s coming up with solutions especially the crappy coaches. If they dont adapt watch for a first round exit or worse.
  • 1

#8 Bodee

Bodee

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Joined: 26-May 11

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:48 AM

*
POPULAR

I agree with some of your points but I think you have the wrong psychology.

I think the team realised having gone all the way to game 7 of the final that they took an absolute hammering. The realisation set in that the best of 7 format is a whole different game. Why because it wears the less physical players down and in some cases makes them irrelevant. What this leads to is the few physical players you do have trying to make up the deficit.

This team saw they couldn't come up with the game under the present rules and probably without realising it, stepped back.

A smart proactive GM in such a situation prioritises his roster and decides who is dispensable and goes out to upgrade the team.......not all at once but bit by bit.

For example take the 1st line, exceptional in regular season......disappointing in the SC. The Sedins NEEDED a big body who could snipe and not only protect them but to make space for them around the goal. I love Burr but he is NOT that player.

The 2ND line was the same. Kesler wrecked himself fighting his and others battles in that run. Booth was nowhere near the answer. Jagr or Clowe or Ryan was the answer. Especially if we were going to use the attributes of Raymond.

I could go on but I've said it all elsewhere. We needed a blood transfusion and we got a manicure. Gillis asleep at the wheel. The guy's sights are trained way too low for this team.

"This team didnt have the grit or determination to beat the bruins but gillis has stayed with the same coach, same system, same core relatively."

This is what annoys me. How can you say these things and NOT lay the blame at Gillis door? How the -------- can the coach insert grit, or change the core?
They had determination in spades by the way and plenty of grit they just didn't have enough big physical bodies.


Let me ask any of you who follow English Premier League soccer.

If Sir Alex Ferguson had been coach AND gm of the Canucks and they had fallen at the last hurdle in 2011 and shat the bed in 2012 how many of this team would be getting a third shot? Not damn many.

Edited by Bodee, 08 March 2013 - 07:02 AM.

  • 8
Kevin.jpg

#9 DownUndaCanuck

DownUndaCanuck

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,147 posts
  • Joined: 28-July 07

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:49 AM

There's absolutely no urgency or care in this team to win games right now.

I have a feeling that will change come playoff time. We've seen the Canucks can dominate games and play well when it counts to them, and when they really want to. A good example? Look at our season series against Chicago. So far in two games we're 1-0-1 against a team that has throttled the entire league, yet we have 3 out of a possible 4 points against them so far. That included some clutch performances by a few players.

The Canucks know how to lift their game when they have to, and I'm sure they'll do so once Game 1 comes around.
  • 0
Posted Image

#10 debluvscanucks

debluvscanucks

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Super Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,583 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 08

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:39 AM

*
POPULAR

I do believe that some of it is mental and complacency but I think it started before Boston, with Chicago. Part of doing a job means that, when you give 110% and come up short, with people devaluing what you have done and the effort that you've given, it's deflating. I am dealing with that on the jobsite and if there's no reward or acknowledgement at the end of a job well done, you lose motivation.

Any team that's been on top but has failed to win the SC likely would experience this...then you have to face going through the motions of trying to get back there...only to come so close? I do feel that psychologically, you lose some of that drive. But it boils down to love of the game...if you lose that, you're doomed. Each time the guys step out on the ice, it shouldn't be about the Cup, it should be about that game and being totally stoked to go hammer it out. To keep a one day/game at a time attitude and just enjoy the moment rather than looking too far down the road. Lu's a bit of a testament to that - when he gets too caught up in the "thinking/figuring out" part, it can divert some of the focus and become a distraction. Just do it, basically.

When you play for the absolute love and passion for the game, it becomes fun again. It falls into place instead of having to force it. I do wonder if some of the fun has been lost through coming up short and battling through some of the adversity that's obviously been a drain (and do know that the "yoga" deal was partly to infuse some in).
You can't ignite that spark for someone, it has to come from within. The guy's lives are changing too, with new babies, etc...perhaps the absolute love and joy that comes with that means the game isn't in the forefront like it was before? (Athough, Hansen says hi to that).

I may be the only one, but I'm still not freaking out or worried. Save it for the playoffs, then have it all fall into place.
  • 8

Posted Image


#11 Gooseberries

Gooseberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,311 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 10

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:44 AM

I do believe that some of it is mental and complacency but I think it started before Boston, with Chicago. Part of doing a job means that, when you give 110% and come up short, with people devaluing what you have done and the effort that you've given, it's deflating. I am dealing with that on the jobsite and if there's no reward or acknowledgement at the end of a job well done, you lose motivation.

Any team that's been on top but has failed to win the SC likely would experience this...then you have to face going through the motions of trying to get back there...only to come so close? I do feel that psychologically, you lose some of that drive. But it boils down to love of the game...if you lose that, you're doomed. Each time the guys step out on the ice, it shouldn't be about the Cup, it should be about that game and being totally stoked to go hammer it out. To keep a one day/game at a time attitude and just enjoy the moment rather than looking too far down the road. Lu's a bit of a testament to that - when he gets too caught up in the "thinking/figuring out" part, it can divert some of the focus and become a distraction. Just do it, basically.

When you play for the absolute love and passion for the game, it becomes fun again. It falls into place instead of having to force it. I do wonder if some of the fun is being lost in the game (and do know that the "yoga" deal was partly to infuse some in).

I may be the only one, but I'm still not freaking out or worried. Save it for the playoffs, then have it all fall into place.

jeez deb you are on FIRE this morning
  • 0

Posted Image

#freetorts

-Credit to blueberries-


#12 Tearloch7

Tearloch7

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,357 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:01 AM

I do believe that some of it is mental and complacency but I think it started before Boston, with Chicago. Part of doing a job means that, when you give 110% and come up short, with people devaluing what you have done and the effort that you've given, it's deflating. I am dealing with that on the jobsite and if there's no reward or acknowledgement at the end of a job well done, you lose motivation.

Any team that's been on top but has failed to win the SC likely would experience this...then you have to face going through the motions of trying to get back there...only to come so close? I do feel that psychologically, you lose some of that drive. But it boils down to love of the game...if you lose that, you're doomed. Each time the guys step out on the ice, it shouldn't be about the Cup, it should be about that game and being totally stoked to go hammer it out. To keep a one day/game at a time attitude and just enjoy the moment rather than looking too far down the road. Lu's a bit of a testament to that - when he gets too caught up in the "thinking/figuring out" part, it can divert some of the focus and become a distraction. Just do it, basically.

When you play for the absolute love and passion for the game, it becomes fun again. It falls into place instead of having to force it. I do wonder if some of the fun has been lost through coming up short and battling through some of the adversity that's obviously been a drain (and do know that the "yoga" deal was partly to infuse some in).
You can't ignite that spark for someone, it has to come from within. The guy's lives are changing too, with new babies, etc...perhaps the absolute love and joy that comes with that means the game isn't in the forefront like it was before? (Athough, Hansen says hi to that).

I may be the only one, but I'm still not freaking out or worried. Save it for the playoffs, then have it all fall into place.


Very well said .. the one thing I would add is that their must be consequences .. and if the Canucks flail and fail in the playoffs, AV must go back east with his banjo on his knee ..
  • 0

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#13 tas

tas

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,602 posts
  • Joined: 16-July 06

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:01 AM

*
POPULAR

jeez deb you are on FIRE this morning


on fire with delusion if she thinks that things will fall into place at playoff time for this team.
  • 20

#14 Clinch16

Clinch16

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 447 posts
  • Joined: 22-April 11

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

I do believe that some of it is mental and complacency but I think it started before Boston, with Chicago. Part of doing a job means that, when you give 110% and come up short, with people devaluing what you have done and the effort that you've given, it's deflating. I am dealing with that on the jobsite and if there's no reward or acknowledgement at the end of a job well done, you lose motivation.

Any team that's been on top but has failed to win the SC likely would experience this...then you have to face going through the motions of trying to get back there...only to come so close? I do feel that psychologically, you lose some of that drive. But it boils down to love of the game...if you lose that, you're doomed. Each time the guys step out on the ice, it shouldn't be about the Cup, it should be about that game and being totally stoked to go hammer it out. To keep a one day/game at a time attitude and just enjoy the moment rather than looking too far down the road. Lu's a bit of a testament to that - when he gets too caught up in the "thinking/figuring out" part, it can divert some of the focus and become a distraction. Just do it, basically.

When you play for the absolute love and passion for the game, it becomes fun again. It falls into place instead of having to force it. I do wonder if some of the fun has been lost through coming up short and battling through some of the adversity that's obviously been a drain (and do know that the "yoga" deal was partly to infuse some in).
You can't ignite that spark for someone, it has to come from within. The guy's lives are changing too, with new babies, etc...perhaps the absolute love and joy that comes with that means the game isn't in the forefront like it was before? (Athough, Hansen says hi to that).

I may be the only one, but I'm still not freaking out or worried. Save it for the playoffs, then have it all fall into place.


Well said and I am fully on board with your last paragraph.

The big problem is the fan base really. Step 1 for everyone is to let go of 2011 ( hell people won't let go of Cody Hodgson).

We are not the best team in the league any more, no more on game 24 than we were on game 1.try to enjoy the hockey and anything can happen in the playoffs
  • 1
Posted Image

#15 riffraff

riffraff

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,043 posts
  • Joined: 10-April 07

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

*
POPULAR

What I take from this thread so far is that people still believe there is a magic button to press to go into successful playoff mode.

I'll book the tee times.
  • 10
Posted Image


CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#16 Gooseberries

Gooseberries

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,311 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 10

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:14 AM

What I take from this thread so far is that people still believe there is a magic button to press to go into successful playoff mode.

I'll book the tee times.

canucks are still contenders. But even if they weren't anymore there.is still reason to.cheer for your team. Look at Toronto Edmonton and Calgary how long did they suck for. We dont even suck yet.

Not saying your not sticking behind our team but just showing the way I see it.
  • 0

Posted Image

#freetorts

-Credit to blueberries-


#17 riffraff

riffraff

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,043 posts
  • Joined: 10-April 07

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

canucks are still contenders. But even if they weren't anymore there.is still reason to.cheer for your team. Look at Toronto Edmonton and Calgary how long did they suck for. We dont even suck yet.

Not saying your not sticking behind our team but just showing the way I see it.


Just calling how I see it too.....since January 2012....
  • 0
Posted Image


CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#18 canucksnihilist

canucksnihilist

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,455 posts
  • Joined: 14-June 11

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

The team seems content to win big regular season games... 2 years ago they wanted to win every game.

They don't have the drive, they don't want it. They can't flick a switch come playoffs... Doesn't work that way...

Guess they believe they should have won the scf... So that is enough for them? That is what it seems. The effort isn't there.

They need an sob in the room to drive them - maybe that was Kesler? When he came back from injury something seemed to change, he needed to take back control of the room?
  • 0

#19 debluvscanucks

debluvscanucks

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Super Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,583 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 08

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:37 AM

I'm not suggesting that they'll flip a switch. I'm suggesting that, in previous years, they've crashed and banged their way to the top in regular season. They've put it all out there prior to getting there (to the playoffs). The comeback kids, who battled till the end in some games in order to win. Then the playoffs, and they go in depleted, already exhausted, beat up, etc. This year there's some sense that they're coasting. That they're not firing on all cylinders (I tend to agree). So maybe by the time they do wake up, it'll be just in time? Not that they say "ok, let's go now" but that it just sort of happens that way. They've always been slow starters, so maybe by the playoffs they'll be clicking again. That's my suggestion.
  • 2

Posted Image


#20 aqua59

aqua59

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,820 posts
  • Joined: 16-January 08

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:43 AM

It seems like ever since the Canucks lost to Boston in the SCF they have been a different team. Even last year when they were Presidents trophy winners, they rarely impressed and kind of just coasted through the season into the playoffs. We all know how that turned out...

I truly think that the stanley cup final messed with their heads. I'm talking about Bieksa, Burrows, the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Hamhuis and most of all AV. We all hoped that after they lost in the final that they would bounce back even better then before, but that idea is quickly fading. If anything, the drive for hockey vanished that fateful day, and they realized that there are better and more important things than hockey, like wives, kids, vacation houses, private yachts, etc. And then of course we have Jesus boy David Booth sitting in the corner preaching that hockey is just a small part of his life and that the fans don't understand, and oh yeah how much he loves God and Jesus.

That brings me to AV. You can totally see that AV has lost the room. He made all of his core players way too comfortable with their jobs and status on the team. The entire core got complacent and since getting huge contracts and wives and kids they have lost their emotions that made them such an exciting team in the years leading up to 2012. AV needs to go so a new coach can come in and actually threaten some jobs that AV wouldn't have the guts to do. Im talking about you Edler.


What gets me is as soon as some one starts a thread or mentions the firing of AV the mods lock the subject. It does seem how ever that firing AV is a strong theme amongst CDC followers.

I think the team coming out flat night after night along with strange player shuffles coupled with poor results warrants criticizing AV's coaching and his coaching staff. If my employees keep preforming flat day in and day out , seem non motivated to do their jobs I do 2 things. I confront them on their effort and performance. If there is no improvement I fire them. Why? Because the people paying are not getting the product or results they expect.

Is bringing up firing AV and his staff taboo on this site or against the rules? Plenty of us want to discuss this subject. Many people will debate this because of differing opinions yet the Mods lock this subject. Who the heck do you Mods think you are? There's a little freedom of speech issue here. I want to talk about firing the pathetic coach o this team.

I guess the real question to me is, is AV a Mod?
  • 1

#21 DaMacNamedDre

DaMacNamedDre

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,032 posts
  • Joined: 13-October 11

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:57 AM

on fire with delusion if she thinks that things will fall into place at playoff time for this team.


Playoffs is when the going gets tough and when The Sedins get shut down.
We have no secondary scoring.
Lucky if we make it to the playoffs at this point and if we do will be a miracle if these guys make it to a game 6 before they go golfing.

What I take from this thread so far is that people still believe there is a magic button to press to go into successful playoff mode.

I'll book the tee times.


dont forget the yoga mat
  • 0
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

#22 Bodee

Bodee

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Joined: 26-May 11

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:09 AM

I'm not suggesting that they'll flip a switch. I'm suggesting that, in previous years, they've crashed and banged their way to the top in regular season. They've put it all out there prior to getting there (to the playoffs). The comeback kids, who battled till the end in some games in order to win. Then the playoffs, and they go in depleted, already exhausted, beat up, etc. This year there's some sense that they're coasting. That they're not firing on all cylinders (I tend to agree). So maybe by the time they do wake up, it'll be just in time? Not that they say "ok, let's go now" but that it just sort of happens that way. They've always been slow starters, so maybe by the playoffs they'll be clicking again. That's my suggestion.


Deb, I admire your confidence.

I am not and never have slated the players individually (although Booth is a stern test) I think they all love the game and love playing it.
However you seem to have slipped into MG's shoes.............You do realise that while we have stood still with a team ALREADY proven to lack the physicality to stay healthy over a run to the final, other teams have not.

We are not sending the a Canucks team (probably weaker in some respects in comparison with 2010-11) to play the same teams to-day who we played 3 years ago.

While Gillis has fumbled his way from one faux pas to another, other GMs have seriously upgraded their teams in skill and size. I pointed that out last year too if you remember. We never saw what hit us when we played LA (quite a few teams didn't)

We thought we would have trouble with the Blues last year and the Coyotes but they are not even in the hunt. Now the Ducks are finally getting it together, the Wings (well we don't want to talk about the Wings, I'm still hurting) The Kings are there again and after the other week I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for beating them best of 7. Add to that the usual suspects the Sharks and the Preds who have both got bigger and better and you might see what I mean.

I could mention Chicago but strangely enough they don't scare me that much as they are a mirror of the Canucks and not physical enough.............who would bet that they too upgrade in size though before the trade deadline.

What I'm saying is, it's bad enough that we have stood virtually still for 2/3 years but we don't/you don't seem to realise that other teams have looked at LA (and LA looked at Boston) and have taken steps to be ready for a war of attrition.
  • 1
Kevin.jpg

#23 Legend Killer

Legend Killer

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,175 posts
  • Joined: 23-May 07

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:21 AM

I do believe that some of it is mental and complacency but I think it started before Boston, with Chicago. Part of doing a job means that, when you give 110% and come up short, with people devaluing what you have done and the effort that you've given, it's deflating. I am dealing with that on the jobsite and if there's no reward or acknowledgement at the end of a job well done, you lose motivation.

Any team that's been on top but has failed to win the SC likely would experience this...then you have to face going through the motions of trying to get back there...only to come so close? I do feel that psychologically, you lose some of that drive. But it boils down to love of the game...if you lose that, you're doomed. Each time the guys step out on the ice, it shouldn't be about the Cup, it should be about that game and being totally stoked to go hammer it out. To keep a one day/game at a time attitude and just enjoy the moment rather than looking too far down the road. Lu's a bit of a testament to that - when he gets too caught up in the "thinking/figuring out" part, it can divert some of the focus and become a distraction. Just do it, basically.

When you play for the absolute love and passion for the game, it becomes fun again. It falls into place instead of having to force it. I do wonder if some of the fun has been lost through coming up short and battling through some of the adversity that's obviously been a drain (and do know that the "yoga" deal was partly to infuse some in).
You can't ignite that spark for someone, it has to come from within. The guy's lives are changing too, with new babies, etc...perhaps the absolute love and joy that comes with that means the game isn't in the forefront like it was before? (Athough, Hansen says hi to that).

I may be the only one, but I'm still not freaking out or worried. Save it for the playoffs, then have it all fall into place.

I know you're trying to stay positive and see the bright side of everything. Are you honestly satisfied with what they're bringing to the table. They've officially lost more than they've won this year. They aren't getting it done.
  • 1
Posted Image
For the first time in a long time.. the future looks bright..

#24 elvis15

elvis15

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,345 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 07

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:35 AM

What gets me is as soon as some one starts a thread or mentions the firing of AV the mods lock the subject. It does seem how ever that firing AV is a strong theme amongst CDC followers.
...
Is bringing up firing AV and his staff taboo on this site or against the rules? Plenty of us want to discuss this subject. Many people will debate this because of differing opinions yet the Mods lock this subject. Who the heck do you Mods think you are? There's a little freedom of speech issue here. I want to talk about firing the pathetic coach o this team.

I guess the real question to me is, is AV a Mod?

No it's not, and you're welcome to bring it up. Just be prepared for others to have a contrary opinion. The issue is everyone needs their own thread to discuss it, and it's probably best to discuss it in the existing thread(s). Then there's the rule about PMing a mod if you have questions or concerns rather than discussing it publicly, but you'd know that already if you'd read and understood the other board rule about redundant threads.

Back to the topic at hand (which isn't strictly about AV, but the team dynamic and attitude), I'm not sure of the solution. We know about the fire AV part, but if that doesn't work? Trade all the players and start over, trying to get everyone's 1st round draft picks and young stars?

I don't think the problem is that dire, but I can see the need for a shakeup. Doing that might put us off the rails this year, but maybe we put it together over the summer and come back better next year. New coach, new players, new attitude; all, some or none might be needed depending if we figure it out soon or not.
  • 0

schroedersig2_by_elvis15-d5szksn.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#25 wallstreetamigo

wallstreetamigo

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,382 posts
  • Joined: 01-April 07

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

Deb, I admire your confidence.

I am not and never have slated the players individually (although Booth is a stern test) I think they all love the game and love playing it.
However you seem to have slipped into MG's shoes.............You do realise that while we have stood still with a team ALREADY proven to lack the physicality to stay healthy over a run to the final, other teams have not.

We are not sending the a Canucks team (probably weaker in some respects in comparison with 2010-11) to play the same teams to-day who we played 3 years ago.

While Gillis has fumbled his way from one faux pas to another, other GMs have seriously upgraded their teams in skill and size. I pointed that out last year too if you remember. We never saw what hit us when we played LA (quite a few teams didn't)

We thought we would have trouble with the Blues last year and the Coyotes but they are not even in the hunt. Now the Ducks are finally getting it together, the Wings (well we don't want to talk about the Wings, I'm still hurting) The Kings are there again and after the other week I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for beating them best of 7. Add to that the usual suspects the Sharks and the Preds who have both got bigger and better and you might see what I mean.

I could mention Chicago but strangely enough they don't scare me that much as they are a mirror of the Canucks and not physical enough.............who would bet that they too upgrade in size though before the trade deadline.

What I'm saying is, it's bad enough that we have stood virtually still for 2/3 years but we don't/you don't seem to realise that other teams have looked at LA (and LA looked at Boston) and have taken steps to be ready for a war of attrition.


THIS.

Gillis is relying on the team building strategy (a la the Detroit model) that worked last decade. The game has changed though. Youth, size, speed, and yes Burkie levels of truculence...lol are the way teams win in the playoffs now.

The coach is disconnected and aloof. The GM is in denial. The strategy is tired and broken. No one fears this supposedly elite team.

Time for big changes. Gillis should start with AV now unless he wants to be out the door first.
  • 3

#26 wallstreetamigo

wallstreetamigo

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,382 posts
  • Joined: 01-April 07

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

*
POPULAR

No it's not, and you're welcome to bring it up. Just be prepared for others to have a contrary opinion. The issue is everyone needs their own thread to discuss it, and it's probably best to discuss it in the existing thread(s). Then there's the rule about PMing a mod if you have questions or concerns rather than discussing it publicly, but you'd know that already if you'd read and understood the other board rule about redundant threads.

Back to the topic at hand (which isn't strictly about AV, but the team dynamic and attitude), I'm not sure of the solution. We know about the fire AV part, but if that doesn't work? Trade all the players and start over, trying to get everyone's 1st round draft picks and young stars?

I don't think the problem is that dire, but I can see the need for a shakeup. Doing that might put us off the rails this year, but maybe we put it together over the summer and come back better next year. New coach, new players, new attitude; all, some or none might be needed depending if we figure it out soon or not.


So it is better to stand pat with a team and strategy that have not worked yet? Honestly, why does everyone seem to think that firing AV is going to self destruct this team? It is not. It is one move that can be done to help and if this team relies on AV to the poin it cannot survive without him then this team is not winning anything anytime soon anyway and bigger changes are needed.

You don't stand pat because of the fear that it won't be better with someone else as the coach. You look at the options and make a calculated risk. At this point there is pretty much zero risk that this team with its current players could do much worse than they are right now.

And honestly man, they should make you a mod here. Then you won't look like as much of a dick when you jump in and scold people like you are one.
  • 6

#27 chrisbanks

chrisbanks

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts
  • Joined: 29-February 12

Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:01 AM

Maybe falling out of 1st in the division and being in a proper dogfight for points will wake them up.

it would help the team more if we were in a dog fight because the rest of our division got better... not because we got worse.
  • 0

#28 wallstreetamigo

wallstreetamigo

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,382 posts
  • Joined: 01-April 07

Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:07 AM

I may be the only one, but I'm still not freaking out or worried. Save it for the playoffs, then have it all fall into place.


This team - and this coach - have never shown any ability to suddenly and magically raise their game and find that playoff gear before. Why should we believe that this year is different? Even the year of the cup run they played similar in the playoffs to what they did in the regular season.....they were just better in the regular season then.
  • 0

#29 BuretoMogilny

BuretoMogilny

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,602 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 12

Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:08 AM

*
POPULAR

I agree with some of your points but I think you have the wrong psychology.

I think the team realised having gone all the way to game 7 of the final that they took an absolute hammering. The realisation set in that the best of 7 format is a whole different game. Why because it wears the less physical players down and in some cases makes them irrelevant. What this leads to is the few physical players you do have trying to make up the deficit.

This team saw they couldn't come up with the game under the present rules and probably without realising it, stepped back.

A smart proactive GM in such a situation prioritises his roster and decides who is dispensable and goes out to upgrade the team.......not all at once but bit by bit.

For example take the 1st line, exceptional in regular season......disappointing in the SC. The Sedins NEEDED a big body who could snipe and not only protect them but to make space for them around the goal. I love Burr but he is NOT that player.

The 2ND line was the same. Kesler wrecked himself fighting his and others battles in that run. Booth was nowhere near the answer. Jagr or Clowe or Ryan was the answer. Especially if we were going to use the attributes of Raymond.

I could go on but I've said it all elsewhere. We needed a blood transfusion and we got a manicure. Gillis asleep at the wheel. The guy's sights are trained way too low for this team.

"This team didnt have the grit or determination to beat the bruins but gillis has stayed with the same coach, same system, same core relatively."

This is what annoys me. How can you say these things and NOT lay the blame at Gillis door? How the -------- can the coach insert grit, or change the core?
They had determination in spades by the way and plenty of grit they just didn't have enough big physical bodies.


Let me ask any of you who follow English Premier League soccer.

If Sir Alex Ferguson had been coach AND gm of the Canucks and they had fallen at the last hurdle in 2011 and shat the bed in 2012 how many of this team would be getting a third shot? Not damn many.


I wouldn't be as extreme but I am starting to agree with you in a sense. A GM's job is to assess his talent, compete level, leadership, chemistry, and mix of talent/roles on a team. Further, his job is not only to assess whether the coaching staff can get talent out of players, but use them in a manner to get even more than they are capable of/ aware of out of them...

If we look at Burke. I've said his error was made on day 1 in Toronto, not 2 years down the road etc. When he came in, he didn't want to accept that the team was not a couple trades away from the playoffs - perhaps ego or more likely, misjudgement of the talent, mix, all the things above. As a result, rather than gutting the team (which exhausted Toronto fans would have accepted and were actually calling for after the mess Ferguson left, he makes a decent but ill timed trade for Kessel. Ie giving up alot of the future, for a terrific hockey player but a guy who couldn't carry a team - great #2.). They could have had top 5 picks for years, years where guys like Tavares, Stamkos, Seguin, etc (all from Ontario as well) could have potentially been a leaf. Sorry to digress but this is related to MG.

MG did the very same thing after the finals. He overestimated his team, rather than really looking at why we lost. Yes we had a terrific run and how can you argue that the team wasn't amazing if it got to game 7? Only 2 teams did, so change? Well someone suggesting would say that's insane. However.

Error number 1:

Ehroff was a major part of that run. While I agree he was not worth what Buffalo paid him, MG did nothing to fill that void. Now Edler was looking like he could take over that role but he certainly has never shown that he has Ehroff level offensive skills - when he's on his game (and I think it will come back, I am an Edler fan), he is a terrific 2 way dman, but Erhoff added the closest thing we've had to a real offensive DMan this team has ever had. Never replaced.

Error 2:

Yes we were injured so that HAS to be a big part of any assessment/analysis. But I was at game 7. The compete level was not there. I played hockey competitive till 21 yrs old and honestly, it was depressing being in that building when Boston got up 2-0. The fans knew it was over and the TEAM did. They quit. That is the biggest thing MG did not recognize, hurt or not, you are at home, game 7, you break bones trying to win if you have to bc there is nothing left. MG didn't recognize that the character of this team was not strong, it was ok and one could argue weak but the team got hot at the right time. There is a big difference between character and hot. Character shows when you're down 2-0 in game 7, hot disappears.

Error 3:

After the LA series, not moving Lou immediately, getting rid of this circus for his and the team's sake. No need to get into that.

Error 4:

Adding fringe guys who don't fill the holes we need filled - reclamations vs being bold. Booth, Ballard, Sturm, on and on. This team has needed a 2nd line player with size for 5 years and yet nothing. You need to give something to get something but MG seems scared to make such a move. Instead he tinkers, looking for reclamations, and uses the SCF appearance as the rationale for tinkering. Well if that team had the character he's assuming it did, different issue but again he's misread that. So all he is doing is compounding his errors via taking on salaries not playing to their levels.

Error 5:

Not paying Torres. Here's a guy that brought emotion, a physical game, could score once in a while and hit. But we don't pay him 750 k more and then are trading for Dale Weisse? Tell me Torres doesn't bring more than Weiss? to a VERY important role. Again, understanding the character and makeup of his team, talent assessment. Wrong.

Error 6:

Thinking that 'quiet' leadership is all you need. The Sedins are terrific leaders, terrific people and terrific competitiors. But that is not all you need on a team. You need the intimidator, the guy who commands respect because of his grit, effort, determination. The Stan Smyl, the Linden, the (don't flame me) Messier. That emotional leader, the one who can push a guy into the locker with a look and make players accountable is what's missing. MG assumed that to be Kesler. But Kesler is proving to be a prima donna, I don't think the team would listen to him today because of it, they likely look at him like a whiny btch. His series against Nashville was supposed to be a coming out party, and I can see why MG thought, hey we have that emotional leader, but he is not a leader. His reaction to AV pressing him to get better, (compete level every night, passing etc) the fact it upset him says one thing (and don't for a second believe that all this stuff with his agent and the team / injury comments etc didn't start there), that he's not focused on continous improvement, he believes he is the man. You ever hear Crosby talk? he says stuff like "I need to work on my faceoffs, I need to work on this or that" . Kesler on the other hand - "AV can say what he wants about my passing" - see the difference? Leader/competitor/best in the world vs Prima Donna.

So error MG - assesment of Kesler.

End of this rant - simply put. MG has not assesed the makeup of this team correctly. He has misjudged its character, misjudged the roles players have played/importance and as result, you are now seeing a team with little chemistry, out of sorts and not enough character to compete at a level it should be able to compete at.

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 08 March 2013 - 11:15 AM.

  • 5

#30 VanIsleNuckFan

VanIsleNuckFan

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,566 posts
  • Joined: 31-May 06

Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:14 AM

Deb = +1

Deb = +1

VanIsleNuckFan = optimist
  • 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.