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The teams mentality is the problem.


dangler696969

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It seems like ever since the Canucks lost to Boston in the SCF they have been a different team. Even last year when they were Presidents trophy winners, they rarely impressed and kind of just coasted through the season into the playoffs. We all know how that turned out...

I truly think that the stanley cup final messed with their heads. I'm talking about Bieksa, Burrows, the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Hamhuis and most of all AV. We all hoped that after they lost in the final that they would bounce back even better then before, but that idea is quickly fading. If anything, the drive for hockey vanished that fateful day, and they realized that there are better and more important things than hockey, like wives, kids, vacation houses, private yachts, etc. And then of course we have Jesus boy David Booth sitting in the corner preaching that hockey is just a small part of his life and that the fans don't understand, and oh yeah how much he loves God and Jesus.

That brings me to AV. You can totally see that AV has lost the room. He made all of his core players way too comfortable with their jobs and status on the team. The entire core got complacent and since getting huge contracts and wives and kids they have lost their emotions that made them such an exciting team in the years leading up to 2012. AV needs to go so a new coach can come in and actually threaten some jobs that AV wouldn't have the guts to do. Im talking about you Edler.

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It seems like ever since the Canucks lost to Boston in the SCF they have been a different team. Even last year when they were Presidents trophy winners, they rarely impressed and kind of just coasted through the season into the playoffs. We all know how that turned out...

I truly think that the stanley cup final messed with their heads. I'm talking about Bieksa, Burrows, the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Hamhuis and most of all AV. We all hoped that after they lost in the final that they would bounce back even better then before, but that idea is quickly fading. If anything, the drive for hockey vanished that fateful day, and they realized that there are better and more important things than hockey, like wives, kids, vacation houses, private yachts, etc. And then of course we have Jesus boy David Booth sitting in the corner preaching that hockey is just a small part of his life and that the fans don't understand, and oh yeah how much he loves God and Jesus.

That brings me to AV. You can totally see that AV has lost the room. He made all of his core players way too comfortable with their jobs and status on the team. The entire core got complacent and since getting huge contracts and wives and kids they have lost their emotions that made them such an exciting team in the years leading up to 2012. AV needs to go so a new coach can come in and actually threaten some jobs that AV wouldn't have the guts to do. Im talking about you Edler.

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We complain to the refs less than ever. Henrik never debates calls anymore because every Canuck knows that refs make calls for reasons that are rarely to do with the particular play. That you think otherwise is a testament to your ignorance.

Talk about a warped sense of fandom. I'm a fan because I admire the team's play and hope they succeed. Only the most deluded fan would think that the team answers to them.

Fixed.

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Long time fan, first time poster. I've watched every game, and this is how i see things so far this year.....

Over the last few years, we have always taken the first month to get into things. This year, it was really only our first game that was really rough. We were looking good early....and then for some reason the teams management started to mess around with a good thing.

The first major change was to take Kassian off of the first line with the Sedins. The reasoning was that the Sedins were not producing the way they did with Burrows. I asked myself....so what?!? The line was producing offensive pressure and points game in and game out....and Kassian did bring a presence to the ice when the Sedins were out there in a way Burrows can't. It also was a HUGE confidence boost for the kid, and you could see it in his play. You could also see an almost immediate drop in his play when he was bumped down. Bad move management.

The next change was, when Kesler came back, breaking up the Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen line. This line was our most consistent line up until that point. Raymond was having a comeback year, and you could see Schroeder was on the verge of being a regular producer. Kesler comes back, and lines get jumbled...all the chemistry is lost, and oh look, we started losing games. Bad move management.

The next change was to break up Tanev and Ballard. Up until that point, they had been our best defensive pair. Edler wasn't living up to expectations, Garrison wasn't quite hitting the net the way he needed to, Hamhuis didn't look at strong and confident like he normally did, and Bieksa was plauged with illness and injury. So you have one solid pair of defence....and you break them up? And oh look, as soon as that happened, we started to REALLY play poorly in our own end. Several games were handed to the other team based on poor defensive play. Bad move management.

The final big change was a lack of change, more just a continual indecision. Make a concrete choice on what is happening with Luongo! Honestly at this point it is clear that he is here to stay for the season.....i would be very surprised if he wasn't - but Gillis kept up the message of 'we don't give players away, but if a deal comes we will consider it'. Well what does that do? It puts HUGE pressure on Lou because he is in limbo. Is he staying? Is he going? I think it is clear he would prefer to stay, but if he has to go he is willing to work with us. At any rate, it is a distraction from the game.

Secondary to that, you have Schneider who came into the season thinking he was the man - but now is presented by a situation where is maybe isn't the man. The pressure of being the #1 for the first time is exemplified by the constant doubt and worry of being pushed down to #2 spot again if Lou starts to up his game (which, for the first 10 games he played, he did).

Bad move management.

Right now we are not playing to our strengths. Our biggest issue i think is with our offensive and defensive pairings.

Line #1 should be Sedin, Sedin, Kassian. It was producing points, it provided a physical protection for the Sedins, and it was allowing Kassian to develop into a great player - not just a tough guy. Having him thrown on the 4th line is just turning him into a tough guy, a one dimensional player who is easily replaced. A complete waste of Cody Hodgson.

Line #2 and Line #3 are both interchangeable in terms of ice time and which is classified as #2 or #3. You have Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen and then you have Booth - Kesler - Higgins. The latter line PROVED itself to be a contender last year. You have speed, you have strength, you have grit and you have scoring. The former listed line is new to this year, and as described above, had HUGE chemistry. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

These pairings give confidence to Booth and Kesler, both coming off injury. They give confidence to Raymond, who is having an outsanding bounce back year, and they also help further develop another young talent in Schroeder. Just like Kassian, Schroeder isn't developing at all on the 4th line. He doesn't even fit the physical bill like Kassian does there. He is a clear cut case of 'one of these things is not like the other'. Schroeder's career is going to die on the 4th line - putting him on the PP is not enough to develop his offensive skills the way they should.

The 4th line is a toss up. None of these guys are really performing for us. You have Weiss - Lapierre and now Sestito. Those guys all belong on the 4th line. They are made for it, they can do thier jobs there, it just makes sense.

Now, where - might you ask - is Burrows? I love Burrows, i think he should be on the team, and i would be disappointed if we traded him. Where does he fit in though? He could slide into the #2 or #3 line, replacing either Booth or Schroeder - honestly i'd prefer to have him replace Schroeder...i think his style of play would line up with Raymond and Hansen quite well - neither of them have that 'crash the net and be a pain in the D's butt' skill like he does.

Until Kesler comes back it isn't a problem - stick him with Booth and Higgins. When Kesler comes back...then it's something that needs sorting out.

As for our Defence pairings - get Tanev and Ballard back together. They work. Just do it. As for the other four - Bieksa and Hamhuis have proven themselves to be a solid pair. They both have had some hurdles this year, but they aren't going to build that chemistry back unless they are back together. That leaves Edler and Garrison - which SHOULD be a solid combination. Again, Edler isn't going to get better on his off-wing if he doesn't play it!

It just feels like if something doesn't work within 2-3 games, management gives up. Edler can't adjust, move him to another pairing. Garrison can't hit the net as often as he needs to, move him to another pairing. Wrong. Give these guys a chance to adjust - the lockout was a serious impact on everyone, stick with it and i think the results will come.

As for the goalies - they are who they are. I think we benefit in keeping both of them, but come out and say you are going to do that! Take that unknown decision off both of their shoulders. Let them focus on their games, which clearly have been sliding as of late.

Phew, there we go, my 1st extensive 2 cents post on the Canucks forums. Cherry = popped!

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Long time fan, first time poster. I've watched every game, and this is how i see things so far this year.....

Over the last few years, we have always taken the first month to get into things. This year, it was really only our first game that was really rough. We were looking good early....and then for some reason the teams management started to mess around with a good thing.

Bad move management.

Right now we are not playing to our strengths. Our biggest issue i think is with our offensive and defensive pairings.

Phew, there we go, my 1st extensive 2 cents post on the Canucks forums. Cherry = popped!

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I hope they succeed as well. When they don't, I expect them to answer for it. It's their job, and they are paid very well to do it. They should be held to account when they don't do what they are paid to do. And if they aren't accountable to their fans, I don't know who they would be accountable to. If you think it is is warped to expect them do do their job well, and if it is warped to expect them to answer to the people that ultimately pay their salaries when they dont, then I'm not interested in knowing what you think is normal.

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Throw a hissy fit in Tim Hortons next time you're not given exemplary customer service and be sure to use the line "I pay your salary and hold you accountable." Then report back. You'll be staggered to know that you don't pay anyone's salary. You and a collective mass of fans pay their salaries, and you have a voice equal to your financial support of the team/company.

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Long time fan, first time poster. I've watched every game, and this is how i see things so far this year.....

Over the last few years, we have always taken the first month to get into things. This year, it was really only our first game that was really rough. We were looking good early....and then for some reason the teams management started to mess around with a good thing.

The first major change was to take Kassian off of the first line with the Sedins. The reasoning was that the Sedins were not producing the way they did with Burrows. I asked myself....so what?!? The line was producing offensive pressure and points game in and game out....and Kassian did bring a presence to the ice when the Sedins were out there in a way Burrows can't. It also was a HUGE confidence boost for the kid, and you could see it in his play. You could also see an almost immediate drop in his play when he was bumped down. Bad move management.

The next change was, when Kesler came back, breaking up the Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen line. This line was our most consistent line up until that point. Raymond was having a comeback year, and you could see Schroeder was on the verge of being a regular producer. Kesler comes back, and lines get jumbled...all the chemistry is lost, and oh look, we started losing games. Bad move management.

The next change was to break up Tanev and Ballard. Up until that point, they had been our best defensive pair. Edler wasn't living up to expectations, Garrison wasn't quite hitting the net the way he needed to, Hamhuis didn't look at strong and confident like he normally did, and Bieksa was plauged with illness and injury. So you have one solid pair of defence....and you break them up? And oh look, as soon as that happened, we started to REALLY play poorly in our own end. Several games were handed to the other team based on poor defensive play. Bad move management.

The final big change was a lack of change, more just a continual indecision. Make a concrete choice on what is happening with Luongo! Honestly at this point it is clear that he is here to stay for the season.....i would be very surprised if he wasn't - but Gillis kept up the message of 'we don't give players away, but if a deal comes we will consider it'. Well what does that do? It puts HUGE pressure on Lou because he is in limbo. Is he staying? Is he going? I think it is clear he would prefer to stay, but if he has to go he is willing to work with us. At any rate, it is a distraction from the game.

Secondary to that, you have Schneider who came into the season thinking he was the man - but now is presented by a situation where is maybe isn't the man. The pressure of being the #1 for the first time is exemplified by the constant doubt and worry of being pushed down to #2 spot again if Lou starts to up his game (which, for the first 10 games he played, he did).

Bad move management.

Right now we are not playing to our strengths. Our biggest issue i think is with our offensive and defensive pairings.

Line #1 should be Sedin, Sedin, Kassian. It was producing points, it provided a physical protection for the Sedins, and it was allowing Kassian to develop into a great player - not just a tough guy. Having him thrown on the 4th line is just turning him into a tough guy, a one dimensional player who is easily replaced. A complete waste of Cody Hodgson.

Line #2 and Line #3 are both interchangeable in terms of ice time and which is classified as #2 or #3. You have Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen and then you have Booth - Kesler - Higgins. The latter line PROVED itself to be a contender last year. You have speed, you have strength, you have grit and you have scoring. The former listed line is new to this year, and as described above, had HUGE chemistry. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

These pairings give confidence to Booth and Kesler, both coming off injury. They give confidence to Raymond, who is having an outsanding bounce back year, and they also help further develop another young talent in Schroeder. Just like Kassian, Schroeder isn't developing at all on the 4th line. He doesn't even fit the physical bill like Kassian does there. He is a clear cut case of 'one of these things is not like the other'. Schroeder's career is going to die on the 4th line - putting him on the PP is not enough to develop his offensive skills the way they should.

The 4th line is a toss up. None of these guys are really performing for us. You have Weiss - Lapierre and now Sestito. Those guys all belong on the 4th line. They are made for it, they can do thier jobs there, it just makes sense.

Now, where - might you ask - is Burrows? I love Burrows, i think he should be on the team, and i would be disappointed if we traded him. Where does he fit in though? He could slide into the #2 or #3 line, replacing either Booth or Schroeder - honestly i'd prefer to have him replace Schroeder...i think his style of play would line up with Raymond and Hansen quite well - neither of them have that 'crash the net and be a pain in the D's butt' skill like he does.

Until Kesler comes back it isn't a problem - stick him with Booth and Higgins. When Kesler comes back...then it's something that needs sorting out.

As for our Defence pairings - get Tanev and Ballard back together. They work. Just do it. As for the other four - Bieksa and Hamhuis have proven themselves to be a solid pair. They both have had some hurdles this year, but they aren't going to build that chemistry back unless they are back together. That leaves Edler and Garrison - which SHOULD be a solid combination. Again, Edler isn't going to get better on his off-wing if he doesn't play it!

It just feels like if something doesn't work within 2-3 games, management gives up. Edler can't adjust, move him to another pairing. Garrison can't hit the net as often as he needs to, move him to another pairing. Wrong. Give these guys a chance to adjust - the lockout was a serious impact on everyone, stick with it and i think the results will come.

As for the goalies - they are who they are. I think we benefit in keeping both of them, but come out and say you are going to do that! Take that unknown decision off both of their shoulders. Let them focus on their games, which clearly have been sliding as of late.

Phew, there we go, my 1st extensive 2 cents post on the Canucks forums. Cherry = popped!

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I hear the comments - agree with them here, the negative ones. Av needs to go, gmmg is not bold anymore... Power play sucks, team is not getting upgraded, few real prospects ready to come up...

But in sports u just beer know.... In 2011 The bruins were a disaster a month or 2 before the playoffs. In 2012 the kings barely squeaked into the playoffs - they sucked.

If the team makes the playoffs, it's a new season and if a team clicks they can win.

Real question: will this team click? Maybe, but probably not... It needs a shakeup - any shakeup and it might happen. Big trade, new coach, new gm... You would think the gm would make a big trade or get a new coach before he gets fired? The smart ones do...

Cause without a shake-up this team might not make the playoffs...

Effing country club yoga pansy try hard my shrink said frack off already!!!! Lol

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Long time fan, first time poster. I've watched every game, and this is how i see things so far this year.....

Over the last few years, we have always taken the first month to get into things. This year, it was really only our first game that was really rough. We were looking good early....and then for some reason the teams management started to mess around with a good thing.

The first major change was to take Kassian off of the first line with the Sedins. The reasoning was that the Sedins were not producing the way they did with Burrows. I asked myself....so what?!? The line was producing offensive pressure and points game in and game out....and Kassian did bring a presence to the ice when the Sedins were out there in a way Burrows can't. It also was a HUGE confidence boost for the kid, and you could see it in his play. You could also see an almost immediate drop in his play when he was bumped down. Bad move management.

The next change was, when Kesler came back, breaking up the Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen line. This line was our most consistent line up until that point. Raymond was having a comeback year, and you could see Schroeder was on the verge of being a regular producer. Kesler comes back, and lines get jumbled...all the chemistry is lost, and oh look, we started losing games. Bad move management.

The next change was to break up Tanev and Ballard. Up until that point, they had been our best defensive pair. Edler wasn't living up to expectations, Garrison wasn't quite hitting the net the way he needed to, Hamhuis didn't look at strong and confident like he normally did, and Bieksa was plauged with illness and injury. So you have one solid pair of defence....and you break them up? And oh look, as soon as that happened, we started to REALLY play poorly in our own end. Several games were handed to the other team based on poor defensive play. Bad move management.

The final big change was a lack of change, more just a continual indecision. Make a concrete choice on what is happening with Luongo! Honestly at this point it is clear that he is here to stay for the season.....i would be very surprised if he wasn't - but Gillis kept up the message of 'we don't give players away, but if a deal comes we will consider it'. Well what does that do? It puts HUGE pressure on Lou because he is in limbo. Is he staying? Is he going? I think it is clear he would prefer to stay, but if he has to go he is willing to work with us. At any rate, it is a distraction from the game.

Secondary to that, you have Schneider who came into the season thinking he was the man - but now is presented by a situation where is maybe isn't the man. The pressure of being the #1 for the first time is exemplified by the constant doubt and worry of being pushed down to #2 spot again if Lou starts to up his game (which, for the first 10 games he played, he did).

Bad move management.

Right now we are not playing to our strengths. Our biggest issue i think is with our offensive and defensive pairings.

Line #1 should be Sedin, Sedin, Kassian. It was producing points, it provided a physical protection for the Sedins, and it was allowing Kassian to develop into a great player - not just a tough guy. Having him thrown on the 4th line is just turning him into a tough guy, a one dimensional player who is easily replaced. A complete waste of Cody Hodgson.

Line #2 and Line #3 are both interchangeable in terms of ice time and which is classified as #2 or #3. You have Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen and then you have Booth - Kesler - Higgins. The latter line PROVED itself to be a contender last year. You have speed, you have strength, you have grit and you have scoring. The former listed line is new to this year, and as described above, had HUGE chemistry. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

These pairings give confidence to Booth and Kesler, both coming off injury. They give confidence to Raymond, who is having an outsanding bounce back year, and they also help further develop another young talent in Schroeder. Just like Kassian, Schroeder isn't developing at all on the 4th line. He doesn't even fit the physical bill like Kassian does there. He is a clear cut case of 'one of these things is not like the other'. Schroeder's career is going to die on the 4th line - putting him on the PP is not enough to develop his offensive skills the way they should.

The 4th line is a toss up. None of these guys are really performing for us. You have Weiss - Lapierre and now Sestito. Those guys all belong on the 4th line. They are made for it, they can do thier jobs there, it just makes sense.

Now, where - might you ask - is Burrows? I love Burrows, i think he should be on the team, and i would be disappointed if we traded him. Where does he fit in though? He could slide into the #2 or #3 line, replacing either Booth or Schroeder - honestly i'd prefer to have him replace Schroeder...i think his style of play would line up with Raymond and Hansen quite well - neither of them have that 'crash the net and be a pain in the D's butt' skill like he does.

Until Kesler comes back it isn't a problem - stick him with Booth and Higgins. When Kesler comes back...then it's something that needs sorting out.

As for our Defence pairings - get Tanev and Ballard back together. They work. Just do it. As for the other four - Bieksa and Hamhuis have proven themselves to be a solid pair. They both have had some hurdles this year, but they aren't going to build that chemistry back unless they are back together. That leaves Edler and Garrison - which SHOULD be a solid combination. Again, Edler isn't going to get better on his off-wing if he doesn't play it!

It just feels like if something doesn't work within 2-3 games, management gives up. Edler can't adjust, move him to another pairing. Garrison can't hit the net as often as he needs to, move him to another pairing. Wrong. Give these guys a chance to adjust - the lockout was a serious impact on everyone, stick with it and i think the results will come.

As for the goalies - they are who they are. I think we benefit in keeping both of them, but come out and say you are going to do that! Take that unknown decision off both of their shoulders. Let them focus on their games, which clearly have been sliding as of late.

Phew, there we go, my 1st extensive 2 cents post on the Canucks forums. Cherry = popped!

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This team isn't truly as bad as they are playing right now, however they aren't strong enough to contend for the Cup. It's as simple as that.

Plus it doesn't help when you have over 4 million dollars sitting on the bench every game. Over 9 million whether Ballard is in the press box or not. Granted the Canucks would never pick up a real super star during the summer where that cap could be allocated to so it doesn't really matter how much cap is tied up doing nothing. Then again I've never heard of elite teams, cup contending teams, have nearly 1/6 of the cap tied up doing nothing. We'll probably go through the trade deadline with Luongo, Schneider and Ballard (9 million dollars wasted because two of those guys are doing nothing all game), tank early in the playoffs again when the rest of the guys could have received some reinforcements, and then we'll have this debate about what went wrong. That right there is a huge issue. Gillis and co. will be remembered for not getting anything done whether or not they could have. Nobody cares whether if it was impossible to get a deal done, nobody is going to remember that, everyone is going to remember how a deal wasn't done. Then Luongo will be older, less valuable than he already is, the twins are evidently on the decline already and our chances of winning with much of this team become much more difficult.

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I do agree with most of the points here on lack of effort, and its been happening for awhile now, even in wins. Here's what changes I think are needed in no particular order:

-Rink atmosphere: ownership and management need to encourage a better atmosphere for fans to cheer. Relax a bit on the security, let the fans cheer. Being loud and supportive of the team should be encouraged, and I don't mean by the jumbotron

-Coaching: we need to be much better on PP, PK, SO and stay out of the box. The players haven't changed much, so the system must be partly to blame. Put the big bodies in front of the net? Booth? Kassian? Personally, I'm hoping for Jensen. Line juggling has got silly. Last year it was the Gragnani experiment. We had good pairs, but messed it all up and never got the confidence back in time. Same thing this year. There has been good line combo's, but its almost like the coach is just looking for more rather than using what works?

-we will never win or get reffing calls in playoffs unless we lose the "diving" image. I have nothing against Kesler and he has lots of upside, but I think we should consider this point carefully. Can you envision this type of player character being a winner? I'm thinking no.

-Team shakeup. Kesler out: diving, complaining and horsing around isn't going to bring us a cup. I was thinking Getzlaf before, but not with his new salary! Booth out: he's big and fast, and not much skill finish. I'd rather have Hansen in that role. Jensen in: I want to see this asap. At minimum, he'd give us a better chance to win shootout. One of the following: Edler out, but a lateral move for a equal talent struggling, like Myers perhaps. *OR* Ballard for an experienced D with calming influence that can pick up Edler's game. Schneider out: we need the cap in other areas, he gets us better return, and Lu's contract isn't trade-able. *maybe* we could save that one for the off-season. I didn't want to get into too many specifics as that belongs in trade section. Overall, some of these guys aren't losers, but I don't seem them as cup winning players on this team.

We need that hard fast fore-checking, hitting and drive to give the opponents no time to play the puck and force bad decisions. I haven't seen this for quite some time. I remember watching the Blazers play that hard fore-checking game even with less than star team. Two memorial cups in three years says it works. By the way, the Don Hay was the coach, and I wouldn't mind having him around. His coaching seemed to encourage that effort, drive and team support. /end rant of lackluster effort

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