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The teams mentality is the problem.


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#91 ccc44

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:04 PM

It's always a loss because theo other team "deserves credit" and "fought real hard"...AV's classic responses to a loss.

And Henrik it's always "when we play our game, we are tought to beat" Really Hank?! What game is that, precisely. "we played good enough to win" (but lost) "if we keep playing like we can, we're hard to beat". yea right.

I loved Bruce Budreau after the first period against Calgary tonight.. They had the lead but teh reporter asked what more he needed from his team I paraphrase..."more of everything. We wer brutal out there. Out shot, out hustleed, out hit. Without our goalie it would be 5-1 for them. These guys better start playing a lot harder."

Honest and blunt! No platitudes and BS. How refershing.

How would any of us know what is said in the dressing room ,Being called out to the media in my opinion is thrashy and unprofessional by Budreau and could easily lose respect from the veterans of the team
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#92 VanNuck

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

This exactly had been the problem I foresaw before they even played a game in 2011-12. Gillis stood pact with the same roster and coaching staff, banking on them to be motivated to stand and deliver.

Even if they were so motivated, standing pact wouldn't have been enough anymore, because their rivals pulled all stops to get better. They took no chances, while Vancouver stood by lacklustre. I felt I could see the writing on the wall before anyone else, because the same team that won the Presidents' Trophy and later made the Finals couldn't do the same with the same lineup. And with Hodgson's trade, I was like, it's over now. Defeat was inevitable.

That's why I had been campaigning for Gillis' removal as GM. Just like BC Conservative leader John Cummins, he has jump-started the Canucks, but the team has gone as far is it could under his leadership. They need a new GM that will raise the character on the team, keep them focused, and put the fans on the same page while he's at it (doing a better job sticking up for deserving players before angry fans). That GM, as I said before is #16, Trevor LInden.
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#93 canidiot

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:27 PM

i get the feeling this team is layin off.

what i cant seem to understand is the breakup of the speed line. ever since it was recognized as a great combination av refuses to put these players on the ice together. it seems their lines are not even involved in changes on the fly. otherwise these players may end up on the ice for short periods. this line did not need much time to generate offence.

dont get me wrong i think higgins is playing better on that line. but his natural speed matches booth much better. it would seem to me, that it would only make sence to have booth and higgins form the core of a line. so that when kess comes back, he will have a natural spot to occupy.

i have no idea why a team might put the wrong combinations on the ice on purpose. thats what it looks like to me.
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#94 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:43 PM

How would any of us know what is said in the dressing room ,Being called out to the media in my opinion is thrashy and unprofessional by Budreau and could easily lose respect from the veterans of the team


He didn't call out any player. He acknowledged thta his team was being out-player and needed to up theri compete level. WHich BTW, they did and won 4-0. Sutter did the same thing with his group last week when they wer trailing and being out-played. He went up and down the bench, yelling and cajoling his players to pick up their game and they came from being down to winning in the last 10 minutes.

We don't know what is said in teh room and I never said in my post what that might be. My comments are directed at teh public responses that are always that the other team "deserves credit" "it was tight out there", they're a really good team: etc. Take ownership!! Either AV and the team don't see how poor and lacklustre theri play is, or they are in denial publicly.

It looks like they are satisfied with tehri game and believe if they just get some puck luck, they can win with this group and with this kind of plan and effort.

If that is the case, I beg to differ.
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#95 bobopan

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

I hope this team isn't thinking they'lll turn it on come playoff time as we saw last year that simply doesn't happen. I agree this team is wayy to complecent..i truely believe it starts from the coaches down and a major shakeup is needed. I don't see this team going anywhere as things stand.
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#96 BigRedMachine

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

IMHO the victim mentality is a function of the behavior of the team's management and players which, in turn, directly affects the fanbase. Since most loyal fans follow the lead of the GM, coach and team leaders when they do things like call a presser to complain about not having a "level playing field" after three consecutive playoff losses most loyal fans take what he says as gospel and assume a similar attitude. When a player like Burr accuses a ref of gunning for him most loyal fans believe him and therefore "the refs are out to get us". With a fanbase as large and loyal as the Canucks such behavior can result in real problems such as the aftermath to the SCF. Even Roger Nielson, God bless him, is remembered here mostly for his towel waving episode rather than for the many innovations he came up with in the game during his stellar career. This attitude helps contribute to an undercurrent of a sense of us being hard done by by the powers that be. Taking it further some people develop insane conspiracy theories to support this claim of bias. I mean, think about it; does anybody REALLY think that a Stanley Cup win for Vancouver WOULDN'T be considered a wonderful thing by the NHL, especially since it would be in a market where hockey is easily the #1 sport in town (and in the country)? My take on it is that Bettman and co. would be as pleased as punch, as would most of the media. It would be a great story.


I agree, although I think to a certain extent the attitude of the fan base and the organization feed off of each other in a loop that furthers this mentality. And in an organization with a fan base which, as you say, is dedicated, that creates a poisonous culture of lack of accountability. If the team is not responsible for their own defeats, if it is always someone else's fault, then there is no incentive to perform.

And conspiracy theories aside, lets be realistic here: like it or lump it, bettman's management style is here to stay, and the refs are always going to let things go in the playoffs (how do people think the broad street bullies won two Stanley cups?). So if we aren't prepared to toughen up, accept that reality, adapt to it, and build a team designed to succeed within it, then we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Edited by BigRedMachine, 09 March 2013 - 04:26 PM.

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#97 Forsy

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:30 PM

Yes. And losing the victim mentality starts with fans not blaming injuries and refereeing for all of our misfortunes.

The TEAM needs to lose the victim mentality and not complain to refs.

It is not required of the FANS to stop blaming refs for the TEAM to lose the victim mentality.
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#98 BigRedMachine

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:37 PM

The TEAM needs to lose the victim mentality and not complain to refs.

It is not required of the FANS to stop blaming refs for the TEAM to lose the victim mentality.


Who is going to hold the team accountable if not the fans?
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#99 Papayas

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

This exactly had been the problem I foresaw before they even played a game in 2011-12. Gillis stood pact with the same roster and coaching staff, banking on them to be motivated to stand and deliver.

Even if they were so motivated, standing pact wouldn't have been enough anymore, because their rivals pulled all stops to get better. They took no chances, while Vancouver stood by lacklustre. I felt I could see the writing on the wall before anyone else, because the same team that won the Presidents' Trophy and later made the Finals couldn't do the same with the same lineup. And with Hodgson's trade, I was like, it's over now. Defeat was inevitable.

That's why I had been campaigning for Gillis' removal as GM. Just like BC Conservative leader John Cummins, he has jump-started the Canucks, but the team has gone as far is it could under his leadership. They need a new GM that will raise the character on the team, keep them focused, and put the fans on the same page while he's at it (doing a better job sticking up for deserving players before angry fans). That GM, as I said before is #16, Trevor LInden.


Insanity, you should check out what that word means.
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#100 Merci

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

Chicago goes 24 games without regulation loss, lose Patrick Kane, immediately lose 6-2 to a bottom feeder.

Canucks have no Kesler or Booth all season, and Bieksa is gone for half, have a mediocre rating.




Some Canucks fans are mouth breathers.
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#101 BigRedMachine

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:02 PM

Chicago goes 24 games without regulation loss, lose Patrick Kane, immediately lose 6-2 to a bottom feeder.

Canucks have no Kesler or Booth all season, and Bieksa is gone for half, have a mediocre rating.




Some Canucks fans are mouth breathers.


This team has had injury problems for years. Either they are unusually fragile or they are just making excuses,
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#102 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:08 PM

Chicago goes 24 games without regulation loss, lose Patrick Kane, immediately lose 6-2 to a bottom feeder.


Because... Kane scores 5 goals every game?
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#103 Googs

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:30 PM

It seems like ever since the Canucks lost to Boston in the SCF they have been a different team. Even last year when they were Presidents trophy winners, they rarely impressed and kind of just coasted through the season into the playoffs. We all know how that turned out...

I truly think that the stanley cup final messed with their heads. I'm talking about Bieksa, Burrows, the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Hamhuis and most of all AV. We all hoped that after they lost in the final that they would bounce back even better then before, but that idea is quickly fading. If anything, the drive for hockey vanished that fateful day, and they realized that there are better and more important things than hockey, like wives, kids, vacation houses, private yachts, etc. And then of course we have Jesus boy David Booth sitting in the corner preaching that hockey is just a small part of his life and that the fans don't understand, and oh yeah how much he loves God and Jesus.

That brings me to AV. You can totally see that AV has lost the room. He made all of his core players way too comfortable with their jobs and status on the team. The entire core got complacent and since getting huge contracts and wives and kids they have lost their emotions that made them such an exciting team in the years leading up to 2012. AV needs to go so a new coach can come in and actually threaten some jobs that AV wouldn't have the guts to do. Im talking about you Edler.



Dude, I couldn't agree with you more. But you don't have to be offensive about someone's faith to prove your point. I really don't appreciate that. It is ok to have your opinion but please keep that to yourself. The way Booth is begining to play is exactly what we need and being a healthy human being enhances anyone's performance. So insulting he and his faith is unfounded and other things I won't mention and will leave to you to think about.


I do agree with you for sure regarding Eddler. It is refreshing to finally see someone post this opinion about Eddler. I have been saying it for about 2 years. We will never win a cup with Eddler playing the way he does. He is too clumsy. He is a game changer. the problem is it is either way. He could win a game or lose a game. It scares me whenever he gets the puck. Especially when he is inside the oponents blue line. And his sticks often break. I could go on and on.

The point is he needs to be the leader defensively on the team. He needs to bring things to a whole other level. Because stanlely cup teams have no achilles heal. Stanley cup teams have solid defense. Which is why we need to do something.

One thing we could do is trade Eddler for Erhoff. What do you think?
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#104 canucksnihilist

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:34 PM

Because... Kane scores 5 goals every game?


lol :)

because Kane makes players around him that much better. at least this year. amazing what happens he actually tries. most of the time he is like the canucks this year - just trying to get through the season...
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#105 captain_kirk1

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:04 PM

It seems like ever since the Canucks lost to Boston in the SCF they have been a different team. Even last year when they were Presidents trophy winners, they rarely impressed and kind of just coasted through the season into the playoffs. We all know how that turned out...

I truly think that the stanley cup final messed with their heads. I'm talking about Bieksa, Burrows, the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Hamhuis and most of all AV. We all hoped that after they lost in the final that they would bounce back even better then before, but that idea is quickly fading. If anything, the drive for hockey vanished that fateful day, and they realized that there are better and more important things than hockey, like wives, kids, vacation houses, private yachts, etc. And then of course we have Jesus boy David Booth sitting in the corner preaching that hockey is just a small part of his life and that the fans don't understand, and oh yeah how much he loves God and Jesus.

That brings me to AV. You can totally see that AV has lost the room. He made all of his core players way too comfortable with their jobs and status on the team. The entire core got complacent and since getting huge contracts and wives and kids they have lost their emotions that made them such an exciting team in the years leading up to 2012. AV needs to go so a new coach can come in and actually threaten some jobs that AV wouldn't have the guts to do. Im talking about you Edler.


I don't think its fair here to attack players on their beliefs or what they value. Just because Booth says that doesn't mean he's putting his hockey game on the back burner. Some of us may not agree with Booth, but doesn't make it right to target him based on what he believes.

It's obvious that there are more important things in the world than hockey - shocking I know. These guys are human beings like all of us..

These guys are professional and they all love the game - so I believe that their integrity to play the game hard and right and wanting to win is still there.

Something needs to change tho I agree in order to revive that desire - to put everything 'all in'. It's gotta be draining to put everything in and (game 7) and not reach your goal.
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#106 SamJamIam

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:42 PM

The TEAM needs to lose the victim mentality and not complain to refs.


We complain to the refs less than ever. Henrik never debates calls anymore because every Canuck knows that refs make calls for reasons that are rarely to do with the particular play. That you think otherwise is a testament to your ignorance.


Who is going to hold the team accountable if not the fans?


Talk about a warped sense of fandom. I'm a fan because I admire the team's play and hope they succeed. Only the most deluded fan would think that the team answers to them.


Chicago goes 24 games without regulation loss, lose Patrick Kane, immediately lose 6-2 to a bottom feeder.

Canucks have no Kesler or Booth all season, and Bieksa is gone for half, have a mediocre rating.

Some Canucks fans bandwagoners are mouth breathers.



Fixed.
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#107 BigRedMachine

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:57 PM

Talk about a warped sense of fandom. I'm a fan because I admire the team's play and hope they succeed. Only the most deluded fan would think that the team answers to them.


I hope they succeed as well. When they don't, I expect them to answer for it. It's their job, and they are paid very well to do it. They should be held to account when they don't do what they are paid to do. And if they aren't accountable to their fans, I don't know who they would be accountable to. If you think it is is warped to expect them do do their job well, and if it is warped to expect them to answer to the people that ultimately pay their salaries when they dont, then I'm not interested in knowing what you think is normal.
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#108 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:01 PM

We complain to the refs less than ever. Henrik never debates calls anymore because every Canuck knows that refs make calls for reasons that are rarely to do with the particular play. That you think otherwise is a testament to your ignorance.




Talk about a warped sense of fandom. I'm a fan because I admire the team's play and hope they succeed. Only the most deluded fan would think that the team answers to them.





Fixed.


Good thing you're here to pass judgement on all things "fan".

Too bad the Stasi are out of business, guys like you fit well into that kind of regime.

Here's a thought for you to ponder..."just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're wrong".

As for your statement in italics ^^ :picard:

Edited by DIBdaQUIB, 09 March 2013 - 07:08 PM.

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#109 Skillscore

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

Long time fan, first time poster. I've watched every game, and this is how i see things so far this year.....

Over the last few years, we have always taken the first month to get into things. This year, it was really only our first game that was really rough. We were looking good early....and then for some reason the teams management started to mess around with a good thing.

The first major change was to take Kassian off of the first line with the Sedins. The reasoning was that the Sedins were not producing the way they did with Burrows. I asked myself....so what?!? The line was producing offensive pressure and points game in and game out....and Kassian did bring a presence to the ice when the Sedins were out there in a way Burrows can't. It also was a HUGE confidence boost for the kid, and you could see it in his play. You could also see an almost immediate drop in his play when he was bumped down. Bad move management.

The next change was, when Kesler came back, breaking up the Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen line. This line was our most consistent line up until that point. Raymond was having a comeback year, and you could see Schroeder was on the verge of being a regular producer. Kesler comes back, and lines get jumbled...all the chemistry is lost, and oh look, we started losing games. Bad move management.

The next change was to break up Tanev and Ballard. Up until that point, they had been our best defensive pair. Edler wasn't living up to expectations, Garrison wasn't quite hitting the net the way he needed to, Hamhuis didn't look at strong and confident like he normally did, and Bieksa was plauged with illness and injury. So you have one solid pair of defence....and you break them up? And oh look, as soon as that happened, we started to REALLY play poorly in our own end. Several games were handed to the other team based on poor defensive play. Bad move management.

The final big change was a lack of change, more just a continual indecision. Make a concrete choice on what is happening with Luongo! Honestly at this point it is clear that he is here to stay for the season.....i would be very surprised if he wasn't - but Gillis kept up the message of 'we don't give players away, but if a deal comes we will consider it'. Well what does that do? It puts HUGE pressure on Lou because he is in limbo. Is he staying? Is he going? I think it is clear he would prefer to stay, but if he has to go he is willing to work with us. At any rate, it is a distraction from the game.

Secondary to that, you have Schneider who came into the season thinking he was the man - but now is presented by a situation where is maybe isn't the man. The pressure of being the #1 for the first time is exemplified by the constant doubt and worry of being pushed down to #2 spot again if Lou starts to up his game (which, for the first 10 games he played, he did).

Bad move management.

Right now we are not playing to our strengths. Our biggest issue i think is with our offensive and defensive pairings.

Line #1 should be Sedin, Sedin, Kassian. It was producing points, it provided a physical protection for the Sedins, and it was allowing Kassian to develop into a great player - not just a tough guy. Having him thrown on the 4th line is just turning him into a tough guy, a one dimensional player who is easily replaced. A complete waste of Cody Hodgson.

Line #2 and Line #3 are both interchangeable in terms of ice time and which is classified as #2 or #3. You have Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen and then you have Booth - Kesler - Higgins. The latter line PROVED itself to be a contender last year. You have speed, you have strength, you have grit and you have scoring. The former listed line is new to this year, and as described above, had HUGE chemistry. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

These pairings give confidence to Booth and Kesler, both coming off injury. They give confidence to Raymond, who is having an outsanding bounce back year, and they also help further develop another young talent in Schroeder. Just like Kassian, Schroeder isn't developing at all on the 4th line. He doesn't even fit the physical bill like Kassian does there. He is a clear cut case of 'one of these things is not like the other'. Schroeder's career is going to die on the 4th line - putting him on the PP is not enough to develop his offensive skills the way they should.

The 4th line is a toss up. None of these guys are really performing for us. You have Weiss - Lapierre and now Sestito. Those guys all belong on the 4th line. They are made for it, they can do thier jobs there, it just makes sense.

Now, where - might you ask - is Burrows? I love Burrows, i think he should be on the team, and i would be disappointed if we traded him. Where does he fit in though? He could slide into the #2 or #3 line, replacing either Booth or Schroeder - honestly i'd prefer to have him replace Schroeder...i think his style of play would line up with Raymond and Hansen quite well - neither of them have that 'crash the net and be a pain in the D's butt' skill like he does.

Until Kesler comes back it isn't a problem - stick him with Booth and Higgins. When Kesler comes back...then it's something that needs sorting out.

As for our Defence pairings - get Tanev and Ballard back together. They work. Just do it. As for the other four - Bieksa and Hamhuis have proven themselves to be a solid pair. They both have had some hurdles this year, but they aren't going to build that chemistry back unless they are back together. That leaves Edler and Garrison - which SHOULD be a solid combination. Again, Edler isn't going to get better on his off-wing if he doesn't play it!

It just feels like if something doesn't work within 2-3 games, management gives up. Edler can't adjust, move him to another pairing. Garrison can't hit the net as often as he needs to, move him to another pairing. Wrong. Give these guys a chance to adjust - the lockout was a serious impact on everyone, stick with it and i think the results will come.

As for the goalies - they are who they are. I think we benefit in keeping both of them, but come out and say you are going to do that! Take that unknown decision off both of their shoulders. Let them focus on their games, which clearly have been sliding as of late.

Phew, there we go, my 1st extensive 2 cents post on the Canucks forums. Cherry = popped!
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#110 BigRedMachine

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:56 PM

Long time fan, first time poster. I've watched every game, and this is how i see things so far this year.....

Over the last few years, we have always taken the first month to get into things. This year, it was really only our first game that was really rough. We were looking good early....and then for some reason the teams management started to mess around with a good thing.

Bad move management.

Right now we are not playing to our strengths. Our biggest issue i think is with our offensive and defensive pairings.

Phew, there we go, my 1st extensive 2 cents post on the Canucks forums. Cherry = popped!


You are off to a good start. IMO, this was worthy of its own thread. Keep posting!
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#111 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

lol :)

because Kane makes players around him that much better. at least this year. amazing what happens he actually tries. most of the time he is like the canucks this year - just trying to get through the season...


So Kane is the difference between them winning/losing by 4 goals? What would happen if Teows was injured too? Would they lose 11-0?
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#112 SamJamIam

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

I hope they succeed as well. When they don't, I expect them to answer for it. It's their job, and they are paid very well to do it. They should be held to account when they don't do what they are paid to do. And if they aren't accountable to their fans, I don't know who they would be accountable to. If you think it is is warped to expect them do do their job well, and if it is warped to expect them to answer to the people that ultimately pay their salaries when they dont, then I'm not interested in knowing what you think is normal.


Throw a hissy fit in Tim Hortons next time you're not given exemplary customer service and be sure to use the line "I pay your salary and hold you accountable." Then report back. You'll be staggered to know that you don't pay anyone's salary. You and a collective mass of fans pay their salaries, and you have a voice equal to your financial support of the team/company.

The fans who pay the Nucks' salaries are quite happy with them and have been for years which ticket sales show. That would include me. CDCers like yourself and the media can say what they like, but it is for the most part, just noise. To try to connect a noisy but financially unimportant minority to the idea of having direct control over the team is delusional. It says to me "Someone needs to take up a hobby as they spend WAAAAAY too much time getting bent out of shape about things they can not control ie. team sports".

Edited by nateb123, 09 March 2013 - 08:07 PM.

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#113 BigRedMachine

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:13 PM

Throw a hissy fit in Tim Hortons next time you're not given exemplary customer service and be sure to use the line "I pay your salary and hold you accountable." Then report back. You'll be staggered to know that you don't pay anyone's salary. You and a collective mass of fans pay their salaries, and you have a voice equal to your financial support of the team/company.


If I am upset with customer service, I don't "throw a hissy fit". I calmly lodge a complaint. Most businesses will make it right because they actually care about their customers. I rarely hear excuses like "we were missing our best people" or "we gave it our best". The usually acknowledge the fault, address it, and move on to being better at what they do. If what you are suggesting is the canucks should care about their fans less than, say, Tim hortons cares about its customers, then I disagree.

The fans who pay the Nucks' salaries are quite happy with them and have been for years which ticket sales show. That would include me. CDCers like yourself and the media can say what they like, but it is for the most part, just noise. To try to connect a noisy but financially unimportant minority to the idea of having direct control over the team is delusional. It says to me "Someone needs to take up a hobby as they spend WAAAAAY too much time getting bent out of shape about things they can not control ie. team sports".


Yes, the Toronto maple leafs base their recent success on how many tickets they sell as well. Ask their fans how that has worked out for them,

Edited by BigRedMachine, 09 March 2013 - 08:14 PM.

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#114 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:24 PM

Long time fan, first time poster. I've watched every game, and this is how i see things so far this year.....

Over the last few years, we have always taken the first month to get into things. This year, it was really only our first game that was really rough. We were looking good early....and then for some reason the teams management started to mess around with a good thing.

The first major change was to take Kassian off of the first line with the Sedins. The reasoning was that the Sedins were not producing the way they did with Burrows. I asked myself....so what?!? The line was producing offensive pressure and points game in and game out....and Kassian did bring a presence to the ice when the Sedins were out there in a way Burrows can't. It also was a HUGE confidence boost for the kid, and you could see it in his play. You could also see an almost immediate drop in his play when he was bumped down. Bad move management.

The next change was, when Kesler came back, breaking up the Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen line. This line was our most consistent line up until that point. Raymond was having a comeback year, and you could see Schroeder was on the verge of being a regular producer. Kesler comes back, and lines get jumbled...all the chemistry is lost, and oh look, we started losing games. Bad move management.

The next change was to break up Tanev and Ballard. Up until that point, they had been our best defensive pair. Edler wasn't living up to expectations, Garrison wasn't quite hitting the net the way he needed to, Hamhuis didn't look at strong and confident like he normally did, and Bieksa was plauged with illness and injury. So you have one solid pair of defence....and you break them up? And oh look, as soon as that happened, we started to REALLY play poorly in our own end. Several games were handed to the other team based on poor defensive play. Bad move management.

The final big change was a lack of change, more just a continual indecision. Make a concrete choice on what is happening with Luongo! Honestly at this point it is clear that he is here to stay for the season.....i would be very surprised if he wasn't - but Gillis kept up the message of 'we don't give players away, but if a deal comes we will consider it'. Well what does that do? It puts HUGE pressure on Lou because he is in limbo. Is he staying? Is he going? I think it is clear he would prefer to stay, but if he has to go he is willing to work with us. At any rate, it is a distraction from the game.

Secondary to that, you have Schneider who came into the season thinking he was the man - but now is presented by a situation where is maybe isn't the man. The pressure of being the #1 for the first time is exemplified by the constant doubt and worry of being pushed down to #2 spot again if Lou starts to up his game (which, for the first 10 games he played, he did).

Bad move management.

Right now we are not playing to our strengths. Our biggest issue i think is with our offensive and defensive pairings.

Line #1 should be Sedin, Sedin, Kassian. It was producing points, it provided a physical protection for the Sedins, and it was allowing Kassian to develop into a great player - not just a tough guy. Having him thrown on the 4th line is just turning him into a tough guy, a one dimensional player who is easily replaced. A complete waste of Cody Hodgson.

Line #2 and Line #3 are both interchangeable in terms of ice time and which is classified as #2 or #3. You have Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen and then you have Booth - Kesler - Higgins. The latter line PROVED itself to be a contender last year. You have speed, you have strength, you have grit and you have scoring. The former listed line is new to this year, and as described above, had HUGE chemistry. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

These pairings give confidence to Booth and Kesler, both coming off injury. They give confidence to Raymond, who is having an outsanding bounce back year, and they also help further develop another young talent in Schroeder. Just like Kassian, Schroeder isn't developing at all on the 4th line. He doesn't even fit the physical bill like Kassian does there. He is a clear cut case of 'one of these things is not like the other'. Schroeder's career is going to die on the 4th line - putting him on the PP is not enough to develop his offensive skills the way they should.

The 4th line is a toss up. None of these guys are really performing for us. You have Weiss - Lapierre and now Sestito. Those guys all belong on the 4th line. They are made for it, they can do thier jobs there, it just makes sense.

Now, where - might you ask - is Burrows? I love Burrows, i think he should be on the team, and i would be disappointed if we traded him. Where does he fit in though? He could slide into the #2 or #3 line, replacing either Booth or Schroeder - honestly i'd prefer to have him replace Schroeder...i think his style of play would line up with Raymond and Hansen quite well - neither of them have that 'crash the net and be a pain in the D's butt' skill like he does.

Until Kesler comes back it isn't a problem - stick him with Booth and Higgins. When Kesler comes back...then it's something that needs sorting out.

As for our Defence pairings - get Tanev and Ballard back together. They work. Just do it. As for the other four - Bieksa and Hamhuis have proven themselves to be a solid pair. They both have had some hurdles this year, but they aren't going to build that chemistry back unless they are back together. That leaves Edler and Garrison - which SHOULD be a solid combination. Again, Edler isn't going to get better on his off-wing if he doesn't play it!

It just feels like if something doesn't work within 2-3 games, management gives up. Edler can't adjust, move him to another pairing. Garrison can't hit the net as often as he needs to, move him to another pairing. Wrong. Give these guys a chance to adjust - the lockout was a serious impact on everyone, stick with it and i think the results will come.

As for the goalies - they are who they are. I think we benefit in keeping both of them, but come out and say you are going to do that! Take that unknown decision off both of their shoulders. Let them focus on their games, which clearly have been sliding as of late.

Phew, there we go, my 1st extensive 2 cents post on the Canucks forums. Cherry = popped!


I agree with everything you've said other than 2

1. Its a coaching decision in regards to lines not management - perhaps semantics but if you meant MG its not up to him, that's AV, and I am in 100% agreement with you other than ;

2. Burrows. This guy is the 3rd most valuable player on this team after Dan and Hank and I'd argue come playoff time he moves to number 1. He is the heart that Linden brought and much more important to this team than given credit for. This team could lose /. trade kesler and not miss a beat. You trade Burr, you take a chunk out of our heart...completely disagree.

But lines were good and working and he (AV) in his brilliance decided Danny and Hank had to be scoring vs. their "line" being effective. Rather than being patient and knowing the points would come for them he messed with a good thing, messed with their best young player's confidence and has impacted the chemistry and emotion on the team in a negative manner.

Agree on Schroeder as well.
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#115 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:26 PM

How would any of us know what is said in the dressing room ,Being called out to the media in my opinion is thrashy and unprofessional by Budreau and could easily lose respect from the veterans of the team


Our veterans don't seem to be giving av any respect.

If they were they would:

1. Be playing with effort and emotion every night

2. Be playing a good system

3. Not letting a no name scrub on the worst team in the league dangle around 2 all stars like he was the second coming of pavel datsyuk.

If that's respect for a coach...well...
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#116 canucksnihilist

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:11 PM

I hear the comments - agree with them here, the negative ones. Av needs to go, gmmg is not bold anymore... Power play sucks, team is not getting upgraded, few real prospects ready to come up...

But in sports u just beer know.... In 2011 The bruins were a disaster a month or 2 before the playoffs. In 2012 the kings barely squeaked into the playoffs - they sucked.

If the team makes the playoffs, it's a new season and if a team clicks they can win.

Real question: will this team click? Maybe, but probably not... It needs a shakeup - any shakeup and it might happen. Big trade, new coach, new gm... You would think the gm would make a big trade or get a new coach before he gets fired? The smart ones do...

Cause without a shake-up this team might not make the playoffs...

Effing country club yoga pansy try hard my shrink said frack off already!!!! Lol

Edited by canucksnihilist, 09 March 2013 - 09:15 PM.

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#117 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:19 PM

Long time fan, first time poster. I've watched every game, and this is how i see things so far this year.....

Over the last few years, we have always taken the first month to get into things. This year, it was really only our first game that was really rough. We were looking good early....and then for some reason the teams management started to mess around with a good thing.

The first major change was to take Kassian off of the first line with the Sedins. The reasoning was that the Sedins were not producing the way they did with Burrows. I asked myself....so what?!? The line was producing offensive pressure and points game in and game out....and Kassian did bring a presence to the ice when the Sedins were out there in a way Burrows can't. It also was a HUGE confidence boost for the kid, and you could see it in his play. You could also see an almost immediate drop in his play when he was bumped down. Bad move management.

The next change was, when Kesler came back, breaking up the Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen line. This line was our most consistent line up until that point. Raymond was having a comeback year, and you could see Schroeder was on the verge of being a regular producer. Kesler comes back, and lines get jumbled...all the chemistry is lost, and oh look, we started losing games. Bad move management.

The next change was to break up Tanev and Ballard. Up until that point, they had been our best defensive pair. Edler wasn't living up to expectations, Garrison wasn't quite hitting the net the way he needed to, Hamhuis didn't look at strong and confident like he normally did, and Bieksa was plauged with illness and injury. So you have one solid pair of defence....and you break them up? And oh look, as soon as that happened, we started to REALLY play poorly in our own end. Several games were handed to the other team based on poor defensive play. Bad move management.

The final big change was a lack of change, more just a continual indecision. Make a concrete choice on what is happening with Luongo! Honestly at this point it is clear that he is here to stay for the season.....i would be very surprised if he wasn't - but Gillis kept up the message of 'we don't give players away, but if a deal comes we will consider it'. Well what does that do? It puts HUGE pressure on Lou because he is in limbo. Is he staying? Is he going? I think it is clear he would prefer to stay, but if he has to go he is willing to work with us. At any rate, it is a distraction from the game.

Secondary to that, you have Schneider who came into the season thinking he was the man - but now is presented by a situation where is maybe isn't the man. The pressure of being the #1 for the first time is exemplified by the constant doubt and worry of being pushed down to #2 spot again if Lou starts to up his game (which, for the first 10 games he played, he did).

Bad move management.

Right now we are not playing to our strengths. Our biggest issue i think is with our offensive and defensive pairings.

Line #1 should be Sedin, Sedin, Kassian. It was producing points, it provided a physical protection for the Sedins, and it was allowing Kassian to develop into a great player - not just a tough guy. Having him thrown on the 4th line is just turning him into a tough guy, a one dimensional player who is easily replaced. A complete waste of Cody Hodgson.

Line #2 and Line #3 are both interchangeable in terms of ice time and which is classified as #2 or #3. You have Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen and then you have Booth - Kesler - Higgins. The latter line PROVED itself to be a contender last year. You have speed, you have strength, you have grit and you have scoring. The former listed line is new to this year, and as described above, had HUGE chemistry. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

These pairings give confidence to Booth and Kesler, both coming off injury. They give confidence to Raymond, who is having an outsanding bounce back year, and they also help further develop another young talent in Schroeder. Just like Kassian, Schroeder isn't developing at all on the 4th line. He doesn't even fit the physical bill like Kassian does there. He is a clear cut case of 'one of these things is not like the other'. Schroeder's career is going to die on the 4th line - putting him on the PP is not enough to develop his offensive skills the way they should.

The 4th line is a toss up. None of these guys are really performing for us. You have Weiss - Lapierre and now Sestito. Those guys all belong on the 4th line. They are made for it, they can do thier jobs there, it just makes sense.

Now, where - might you ask - is Burrows? I love Burrows, i think he should be on the team, and i would be disappointed if we traded him. Where does he fit in though? He could slide into the #2 or #3 line, replacing either Booth or Schroeder - honestly i'd prefer to have him replace Schroeder...i think his style of play would line up with Raymond and Hansen quite well - neither of them have that 'crash the net and be a pain in the D's butt' skill like he does.

Until Kesler comes back it isn't a problem - stick him with Booth and Higgins. When Kesler comes back...then it's something that needs sorting out.

As for our Defence pairings - get Tanev and Ballard back together. They work. Just do it. As for the other four - Bieksa and Hamhuis have proven themselves to be a solid pair. They both have had some hurdles this year, but they aren't going to build that chemistry back unless they are back together. That leaves Edler and Garrison - which SHOULD be a solid combination. Again, Edler isn't going to get better on his off-wing if he doesn't play it!

It just feels like if something doesn't work within 2-3 games, management gives up. Edler can't adjust, move him to another pairing. Garrison can't hit the net as often as he needs to, move him to another pairing. Wrong. Give these guys a chance to adjust - the lockout was a serious impact on everyone, stick with it and i think the results will come.

As for the goalies - they are who they are. I think we benefit in keeping both of them, but come out and say you are going to do that! Take that unknown decision off both of their shoulders. Let them focus on their games, which clearly have been sliding as of late.

Phew, there we go, my 1st extensive 2 cents post on the Canucks forums. Cherry = popped!


Excellent and well presented first post!!

Burrows needs to be in the top 6 but if lines 2 and 3 are getting the same icetime, I suppose the top 9 is okay. He also kills penalties so he'll continue to be valuable wherever he plays.

Couldn't agree more on Kassian. The line was producing and he was developing into exactly what the Sedins need especailly in the playoffs. I noticed a huge difference in liberties taken with the twins when he was demoted. He's big, scarey looking and players know he can fight (and will). OH , and he has decent smarts, good hands and can sceore.

Won't' comment on all your thoughts but bottom line, AV has developed a habit of messing too much with lines and chemistry,. Even when chemistry develops (and there's no science as to why it does adn it can be hard to find) he will change things to try and get someone elsde going. If it wasn't so devastating for team cohesion, it would be comical.

THis team plays like the players have never seen eachother before, yet most have played together for years...a direct result of AV"s compulsion to juggle people around.

Edited by DIBdaQUIB, 09 March 2013 - 09:19 PM.

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#118 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

This post is borderline insanity


Actually, I think his post is pretty much bang on. Other than the Booth/Jesus stuff and suggesting hockey is more important than family, etc - that is just dumb......

This team from the GM right down looks broken mentally. No focus. No accountability. No urgency, And no heart.

Sad to say it about a team I have watched for over 30 years but unfortunately true.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 09 March 2013 - 10:34 PM.

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#119 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:40 PM

This team isn't truly as bad as they are playing right now, however they aren't strong enough to contend for the Cup. It's as simple as that.

Plus it doesn't help when you have over 4 million dollars sitting on the bench every game. Over 9 million whether Ballard is in the press box or not. Granted the Canucks would never pick up a real super star during the summer where that cap could be allocated to so it doesn't really matter how much cap is tied up doing nothing. Then again I've never heard of elite teams, cup contending teams, have nearly 1/6 of the cap tied up doing nothing. We'll probably go through the trade deadline with Luongo, Schneider and Ballard (9 million dollars wasted because two of those guys are doing nothing all game), tank early in the playoffs again when the rest of the guys could have received some reinforcements, and then we'll have this debate about what went wrong. That right there is a huge issue. Gillis and co. will be remembered for not getting anything done whether or not they could have. Nobody cares whether if it was impossible to get a deal done, nobody is going to remember that, everyone is going to remember how a deal wasn't done. Then Luongo will be older, less valuable than he already is, the twins are evidently on the decline already and our chances of winning with much of this team become much more difficult.

Edited by Tortorella's Rant, 09 March 2013 - 09:55 PM.

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#120 gizmo2337

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:18 PM

I do agree with most of the points here on lack of effort, and its been happening for awhile now, even in wins. Here's what changes I think are needed in no particular order:

-Rink atmosphere: ownership and management need to encourage a better atmosphere for fans to cheer. Relax a bit on the security, let the fans cheer. Being loud and supportive of the team should be encouraged, and I don't mean by the jumbotron

-Coaching: we need to be much better on PP, PK, SO and stay out of the box. The players haven't changed much, so the system must be partly to blame. Put the big bodies in front of the net? Booth? Kassian? Personally, I'm hoping for Jensen. Line juggling has got silly. Last year it was the Gragnani experiment. We had good pairs, but messed it all up and never got the confidence back in time. Same thing this year. There has been good line combo's, but its almost like the coach is just looking for more rather than using what works?

-we will never win or get reffing calls in playoffs unless we lose the "diving" image. I have nothing against Kesler and he has lots of upside, but I think we should consider this point carefully. Can you envision this type of player character being a winner? I'm thinking no.

-Team shakeup. Kesler out: diving, complaining and horsing around isn't going to bring us a cup. I was thinking Getzlaf before, but not with his new salary! Booth out: he's big and fast, and not much skill finish. I'd rather have Hansen in that role. Jensen in: I want to see this asap. At minimum, he'd give us a better chance to win shootout. One of the following: Edler out, but a lateral move for a equal talent struggling, like Myers perhaps. *OR* Ballard for an experienced D with calming influence that can pick up Edler's game. Schneider out: we need the cap in other areas, he gets us better return, and Lu's contract isn't trade-able. *maybe* we could save that one for the off-season. I didn't want to get into too many specifics as that belongs in trade section. Overall, some of these guys aren't losers, but I don't seem them as cup winning players on this team.

We need that hard fast fore-checking, hitting and drive to give the opponents no time to play the puck and force bad decisions. I haven't seen this for quite some time. I remember watching the Blazers play that hard fore-checking game even with less than star team. Two memorial cups in three years says it works. By the way, the Don Hay was the coach, and I wouldn't mind having him around. His coaching seemed to encourage that effort, drive and team support. /end rant of lackluster effort
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