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You're wrong, The Canucks are better than ever


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#121 RunningWild

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:36 AM

All tragic things but I am sure if you followed other teams as closely as you followed the Canucks you would see just as many hardships and sad stories with any team.

Of course there are many factors to consider. But considering factors and accepting excuses are two different things.


Of course they're 2 different things, which is why I wrote 'other thinks to consider' and not 'it's an excuse'.

#122 Vancanwincup

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:43 AM

This team. 2013's team.

Not 2011, not 1994, not 1982.


If you think they've shown heart this year I want some of what your smoking.

There is a big difference between a team making mistakes and not winning than a team not showing heart. It is also pretty dim witted to suggest the whole team is showing no heart when better than half the team is showing effort: Sedins, Burrows, Hansen, Raymond, Luongo, schneider, Tanev, Ballard,Schroeder, Higgins and Bieska is being Bieska.

#123 Blackberries

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:47 AM

There is a big difference between a team making mistakes and not winning than a team not showing heart. It is also pretty dim witted to suggest the whole team is showing no heart when better than half the team is showing effort: Sedins, Burrows, Hansen, Raymond, Luongo, schneider, Tanev, Ballard,Schroeder, Higgins and Bieska is being Bieska.


Don't confuse playing with urgency for 20 minutes with playing with actual heart.

Tanev and Hansen are the only ones bringing it every game.

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#124 oldnews

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:49 AM

Who's wrong?

#125 Blackberries

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:51 AM

Who's wrong?


bob barker in happy gilmore.

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#126 lolwut?

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:15 AM

The canucks are better than ever? Lol amazing thread.

Im so glad you are posting here to put it all into perspective for me OP.
If this is the Canucks better than ever, I cant imagine what they would look like if they were slumping...


#127 Vancanwincup

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:16 AM

Don't confuse playing with urgency for 20 minutes with playing with actual heart.

Tanev and Hansen are the only ones bringing it every game.


:lol: If the Canucks would have won the last two games we would not be having this arguement and how can you compare the 1982 team you did not see them play and I'm betting you did not watch the 1994 team play.

Edited by Vancanwincup, 10 March 2013 - 02:18 AM.


#128 Primus099

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:21 AM

Haven't what?


You said the Canucks are a top 3 puck possession team and dominant puck possession wins cups like it did for Boston, LA etc.

But we haven't won the cup, so puck possession obviously isn't the key

#129 Vancanwincup

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:28 AM

You said the Canucks are a top 3 puck possession team and dominant puck possession wins cups like it did for Boston, LA etc.

But we haven't won the cup, so puck possession obviously isn't the key


The key is scoring! How do you score?... by having the puck, so puck possession is a huge part of it.

#130 RunningWild

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:33 AM

You said the Canucks are a top 3 puck possession team and dominant puck possession wins cups like it did for Boston, LA etc.

But we haven't won the cup, so puck possession obviously isn't the key


Never said it was the only factor. it's not. Nobody knows all the key factors otherwise it'd be easy to win the Cup. I also think luck has a lot to do with it.

But these stats guys have done their research and have stated puck possession teams win more hockey games than poor puck possession teams - esp over the long run. LA was the best puck posses team last yr - they won Stanley. Bos the year before. I'm guessing Chi was the prior yr as well.

#131 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:37 AM

The key is scoring! How do you score?... by having the puck, so puck possession is a huge part of it.


Yep. Worked for Detroit all those years. Without Lidstrom, of course, they've taken a hit.

Puck possession means more scoring chances, but it also means a more tired opponent from chasing puck carriers, as well as a better defense simply for the fact the other team doesn't have the puck as much, so can't create as many chances themselves.

But many parrot the bogus plus/minus stats, the bogus "hits" stats (Clutterbuck wins most years because the guy doing home hits stats there calls one for the home team whenever a Minny player breathes on an opponent), the bogus "blocked shots" stats (lots of blocked shots usually means you're getting blistered by chances by the opposition), bogus giveaways (all are not created equal, and are often a reflection of a creative team trying for superior scoring chances), and bogus shots-on-goal (all shots aren't equal, either -- D Sedin in the deep slot with a one-timer vs a Nashville shoot-in, which is why Corsi and other metrics use scoring chances, though even here it doesn't account for contrasting quality of chances).

Edited by Barry_Wilkins, 10 March 2013 - 02:40 AM.


#132 Primus099

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:30 AM

The key is scoring! How do you score?... by having the puck, so puck possession is a huge part of it.


how many goals did we score in the finals again?

#133 Blackberries

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:55 AM

:lol: If the Canucks would have won the last two games we would not be having this arguement and how can you compare the 1982 team you did not see them play and I'm betting you did not watch the 1994 team play.


I watched the 94 team play, I was 11 so you lose the bet. You completely missed my point in that all of those teams worked hard to get to where they got, they didn't coast by simply on the fact they were talented.

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#134 whytelight

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:23 AM

Of course if one were to play Devils' Advocate: We had Kesler for seven games (who had 5 points) and the team went 2-3-2 in that span.



We also lost Manny at the same time.

#135 TrogBurr24

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:06 PM

Posted Image
Canucks have 2 types of fans

DIE HARDS
&
BAND WAGONERS

unfortunately there's more bandwagoners


Die hard fan for as long as i can remember, I have followed the Canucks Religiously for atleast 25 years now, i can count the games i dont watch live on two hands every season. I somewhat agree. I think there is more die hard fans then bandwagoners. just that the wagoners do most of the moaning, sadly some of the die hards will follow suit.

I think we need to start ignoring those people, we see them for who they are, many of fans of other teams are starting to realise this. I no longer defend a Canuck fan i dont know personally, cause you just dont know what your getting. we as fans need to take control of the situation. If you have a friend or two, who is a wagoner, tell them so, refuse to watch games with them, refuse to have a conversation about your team with them. If we want this mess cleared, i think we as die hard fans have to help and clean up the situation.

I have a buddy like this, i refuse to watch games with him, unless its at the bar with a group of buddys, then with that being said i refuse to sit beside him during the game.

This is our team, i may not have the formula figured. Instead of getting mad at bandwagoner(who in my mind, is also a person who like to get people rattled), just refuse to discuss. we dont have to defend our team or prove ourselves to them as fans anymore. shut them out, there the real divers here.

#136 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

Die hard fan for as long as i can remember, I have followed the Canucks Religiously for atleast 25 years now, i can count the games i dont watch live on two hands every season. I somewhat agree. I think there is more die hard fans then bandwagoners. just that the wagoners do most of the moaning, sadly some of the die hards will follow suit.

I think we need to start ignoring those people, we see them for who they are, many of fans of other teams are starting to realise this. I no longer defend a Canuck fan i dont know personally, cause you just dont know what your getting. we as fans need to take control of the situation. If you have a friend or two, who is a wagoner, tell them so, refuse to watch games with them, refuse to have a conversation about your team with them. If we want this mess cleared, i think we as die hard fans have to help and clean up the situation.

I have a buddy like this, i refuse to watch games with him, unless its at the bar with a group of buddys, then with that being said i refuse to sit beside him during the game.

This is our team, i may not have the formula figured. Instead of getting mad at bandwagoner(who in my mind, is also a person who like to get people rattled), just refuse to discuss. we dont have to defend our team or prove ourselves to them as fans anymore. shut them out, there the real divers here.


TO make a statment so bold, you shoud first define what a bandwagoner is in your mind.

It appeasrs, you think anyone who criticizes the team is one. That is not what a bandwagoner is.

IF you are hanging out with true "bandwagoners" those people will not be talking about or supporting the team in bad times. They will, however, show up when the team is winning and cheer hard.

Therefore, if the people you are unhappy with continue to watch and cheer for the Nucks but are critical of their peroformance or personnel moves, they are in fact not bandwagoners, but true fans who do not share your opinion or approach to being a fan. YOu may choose to not watch games with such people but to belittle their opinions by writing them off as bandwagoners says more about your character as a fan than theirs.

Edited by DIBdaQUIB, 10 March 2013 - 12:56 PM.


#137 37yrsncounting

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

This team. 2013's team.

Not 2011, not 1994, not 1982.


If you think they've shown heart this year I want some of what your smoking.


So the only times Canucks teams have heart is when they reach the finals? But they didn't even win? How do you determined which teams have heart and which teams don't

#138 Blackberries

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:02 PM

So the only times Canucks teams have heart is when they reach the finals? But they didn't even win? How do you determined which teams have heart and which teams don't


thats not the point, the point is teams each of those years didn't coast through games.. they faced adversity and overcame to the best of their abilities.. They didnt rely on talent, there was actual effort there for the full game not just 20minutes. That to me is indicative of heart more than anything.. This team plays hard when it wants to and not for more than a period. The game vs LA was the first full 60 min effort I saw from them this year and when you see lesser teams doing that on more consistant basis and getting more points out of it how can you not question their heart?


Look at Ottawa missing their key guys and still giving it their all with half the talent the canucks have..

Why can't the canucks bring that work ethic rather than relying on excuses like kesler being out or bad goaltending?

Edited by pinecone, 10 March 2013 - 02:03 PM.

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#139 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:03 PM

Die hard fan for as long as i can remember, I have followed the Canucks Religiously for atleast 25 years now, i can count the games i dont watch live on two hands every season. I somewhat agree. I think there is more die hard fans then bandwagoners. just that the wagoners do most of the moaning, sadly some of the die hards will follow suit.

I think we need to start ignoring those people, we see them for who they are, many of fans of other teams are starting to realise this. I no longer defend a Canuck fan i dont know personally, cause you just dont know what your getting. we as fans need to take control of the situation. If you have a friend or two, who is a wagoner, tell them so, refuse to watch games with them, refuse to have a conversation about your team with them. If we want this mess cleared, i think we as die hard fans have to help and clean up the situation.

I have a buddy like this, i refuse to watch games with him, unless its at the bar with a group of buddys, then with that being said i refuse to sit beside him during the game.

This is our team, i may not have the formula figured. Instead of getting mad at bandwagoner(who in my mind, is also a person who like to get people rattled), just refuse to discuss. we dont have to defend our team or prove ourselves to them as fans anymore. shut them out, there the real divers here.

The only type of fan that I hate more than a bandwagoner is a homer. I'm sure your friends aren't missing out on much.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 10 March 2013 - 02:04 PM.


#140 Kassian's Face

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:03 PM

No, you're a towel.

#141 Bananas

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:16 PM

fire AV
Hey CDC! Remember this!?

http://forum.canucks...in-this-change/

#142 Special Ed

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:06 PM

Soooo.....

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#143 canucksnihilist

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:08 PM

shake-up needed... powerplay really sucks, all coaching

#144 KoreanHockeyFan

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

This season has been weird overall. I mean come on, Toronto is in a playoff spot and Montreal is on top of the east.

Not to mention that Columbus is on a winning streak.

Oh, and Washington and NYR on the outside looking in? That's really messed. This season is messed.

#145 safin

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

So the only times Canucks teams have heart is when they reach the finals? But they didn't even win? How do you determined which teams have heart and which teams don't


heart isn't defined by ultimate result it's what's shown along the way. You go out in 4 in round 1 but you take every game to ot and just lose to a more deeply talented team, you can live with that, you saw your team playing up to it's abilities but there was somebody better...what you can't live with is having the better talent and watching them half ass and not compete for chunks of the game and believing that cause of their talent level they will turn it on when it matters. They are lucky they are talented otherwise with the effort they've put out this year they should be way worse off in the standings. That makes it even more frustrating cause they do show you what they can do, for stretches...they are either that team that is that talented and not playing like it, or this team is undertalented and has flashes of genius but not enough overall talent to be elite.... Excellence is a habit....one this team simply doesn't have at this time.

#146 bossram

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:32 PM

I think if the Canucks add a top six sniper at the deadline, then most teams should fear facing the Canucks in the playoffs. I very much like this team and hope Gillis can find the missing piece to put them over the top. Kesler does need to get healthy however!


I think the Canucks have a WAY larger need for a solid right-handed defenseman than another forward. When Kesler is back, this team will be flush with players with the ability to score. We're not getting many goals right now because guys like Booth and Burrows have absurdly low shooting percentages. Sometimes its just bad luck and they're not getting any bounces. Eventually they should trend back to their career averages and start scoring.

Our team defense is shot. As soon as we lose our best right-hander (Bieksa) this team collapses. We need a solid defenseman who can help our primarily in our own end and move the puck out efficiently.

With the talent this team has they will start scoring eventually. But all season long the team defense has been terrible.
What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#147 bossram

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:42 PM

So the Canucks are better than ever? But the writer concludes that if Kesler can return to ONLY 75% (lol - that would be a huge step forward for Kesler at this point) of his career year, then he would put the Canucks in the top 23% of teams with a chance to win the Staley Cup? IF Kesler is exponentially better and healthy (never a sure thing at all)........

Think about that for a minute.......these Canucks aren't better at all.


Calm down. He just said (as demonstrated by the article) that the Canucks have played better than the results indicate. Their possession numbers show this. Historically strong possession teams have been successful.
What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#148 KeslerBEAST

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:02 PM

22nd in the league in faceoffs 48.5%

Malholtra 65%
Kesler 54%
Lapierre 51%
Henrik 49%
Raymond 35%
Schroeder 44%

yes we miss malholtra and kesler and you'd think Henrik would at least improve on his faceoffs after being in the league for so long and almost all elite veteran centermen are around 55%

faceoffs were a focal point of our success the past few years.

Edited by KeslerBEAST, 10 March 2013 - 10:03 PM.





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