tigbond Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I don't know if we're tougher. We're not as talented right now that's for sure. Then vs. Now Samuelsson > Booth Erhoff > Garrison Salo > Ballard Hodgson > Shroeder Torres > Kassian also Kesler > Kesler right now Lapierre > Lapierre right now H Sedin > H Sedin right now D Sedin > D Sedin right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I think this was a pretty solid post BTM, although I am caught in the middle overall. Agree. Somewhere along the way MG really messed up the 'mix' of this team. 1. Kassian, yes step in the right direction but he needs to be used with the Sedins - AV is an idiot 2. Gaunce and Jensen, Gaunce grit, Jensen size but not a hitter, but uses it like Sundin, protecting the puck etc so again good picks who should help this team down the road. 3. Right now..issues. When they let Torres go for 700k well that was stupidity. The guy was an intimidator, a hitter, with speed, and would drop them and score. Perfect third line agitator. 4. Manny is a bigger loss than people realize (healthy manny). He was one of the best shut down centers in the league, a great player on the PK and top 3 in faceoffs, which was also big on the pk and just defensively. If you win a vast majority of draws in your own end and get possession its hard for the other team to score. This is something not really being talked about on the forums but I am sure, that our faceoff % is probably one of the worst in the league with Kesler out and Manny gone. This never helps your gaa. MG needs to replace him, somehow, before the playoffs. Either Lappy has to move to 4 and you find a 3 or go find a REAL 4. 5. Booth, size, doesn't use it. Speed great, no hands. Trade him for a guy who gets in on the forecheck like Hansen, but has size. Doesn't even need to have great hands, just able to pot 15-20 but can get in and force turnovers and play the boards. Put that guy with Kesler and Burrows. 6. Kassian needs to be on the top line. No use having speed, size, hands, and the willingness to use them all, lacking that on your top two and then playing him on the 4th. Again AV's decisions confuse me. but whatever , flogging the dead horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Torres is really playing hockey right now too. 5 goals, 9 points in 18 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyglass Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 It's easier to teach a gifted scorer to play defence than to get a grinder to develop offensive skill. Sadly, people look at how Kesler blossomed and think it's possible for anyone. It all goes back to the Hodgson trade for me, here is the one guy in the entire system with untapped scoring potential, hockey smarts, the intangibles you can't teach and that no forward on the team not named Sedin really has. And Gillis trades him away for a big body. Naslund for Stojanov in reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeywoot Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thats the problem..CoHo was behind Kes and shouldn't have been especially when Kes was playing injured. If Kes was playing injured, why not play him limited minutes on the third instead of putting him more at risk on the second? CoHo was doing just fine, it all would've worked out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeywoot Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 However, playing Hodgson at 2C while Kesler was injured would do nothing to solve the issue of what to do with him once Kesler was healthy. I really don't see the Hodgson situation playing out significantly different than what happened. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the red Pony Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Funny, the kid is a leader at every level he's ever played at, and every single coach he's ever played for has praised his maturity to no end. I think you're buying into the spin a little too much, obviously Gillis didn't get along with his agent, but it is possible to not answer one's cell phone. And as long as we're talking about giving up on someone too early, we're ready to give up on CoHo's leadership abilities when he's 22 in a room of seasoned veterans now? Talk about your double standard. I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh thought they were making a good deal at the time too, otherwise I doubt they would have made it. The main challenge to comparison is the existence of hindsight in one case but not the other. However, last time I checked, posting on a forum involves discussing one's opinions, rather than historical fact. So I'm saying that Kassian can't be exactly compared with Stojanov yet, but rather I'm going out on a limb to say that he will be another Stojanov when we have the benefit of retrospection. I wish this site saved posts for longer so I could quote some of my negative prognostications about Fedor Fedorov around the time of the NHL lockout, which were roundly derided. Someone even told me that I might as well delete my account right then and there, because I would be too embarrassed to ever show my avatar once he became a big star for the team (I had just joined the forums at the time). Before anyone says anything, I'm not comparing Kassian on the ice to Fedor, what I'm comparing is that everyone said I was being ridiculous by not giving Fedor Fedorov a chance, "you just see he's going to be great, he's got all the tools, he's only 24", blah blah blah. Turns out that, in retrospect, it was possible to identify a bust player with only a short sample size. With Kassian it's a little different, because he has the misfortune of also having Cody Hodgson's career to be compared to, but nevertheless, that's how it goes sometimes. Alek Stojanov wasn't a bad person, but I'm pretty sure he's more hated for having been the unfortunate opposite end of the Markus Naslund trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHIPS Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 You need both talent and size. The playoffs is a tough grind. For example Hawks got Byfugly when they won the Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Agreed. Torres was exactly what we are missing now and letting him go was a big mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqua59 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thinking talent still wins over size and toughness? Did we add the wrong type players and lost our identity of 4 running lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 It's easier to teach a gifted scorer to play defence than to get a grinder to develop offensive skill. Sadly, people look at how Kesler blossomed and think it's possible for anyone. It all goes back to the Hodgson trade for me, here is the one guy in the entire system with untapped scoring potential, hockey smarts, the intangibles you can't teach and that no forward on the team not named Sedin really has. And Gillis trades him away for a big body. Naslund for Stojanov in reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Torres was out of control........he's not an asset. Chris Neil is an asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 DP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Not necessarily. But Cody would have had to: a) Make the transition to wing (difficult, he'd be a pretty slow winger) Improve his defensive game enough to be 2C, pushing Kesler to the Wing. (I'm sure you've seen his 'other' stats) He wasn't either of these at things at the time. Understandably he was stuck behind on the depth chart. Now if he was a trooper, and sucked it up, this could have played out differently. If he knew ice time is to be 'earned', not 'owed', maybe it would have been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeywoot Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I am no fan of Hodgson getting his panties in a bunch here in Van but if you sit back and look at the situation objectively it really might also have something to do with the fact that "earning ice time" with AV is not exactly as fair and equitable as you suggest. He was playing better than Kesler, at least offensively, at the time so really based on the whole earning fallacy that CDC has about AV, he should have received more offensive minutes with Kesler losing some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretzky's Mullet Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Sensationalized garbage at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 You have to take it on a player by player basis. What we are looking for is the best combo: size, skill, speed, consistency, special team, roster flexibility. Personally, I like it when our team plays clean, fast, hard hitting, physical game on the fore check and can also play solid defensively. Our best defence has been keeping the puck 200 feet from our own net and we are *not* playing this way at the moment. Here's a couple examples, take your pick of player: Claude Giroux or Chris Stewart? Dustin Byfuglien or Zedno Chara or Sheldon Souray or Shea Weber? Cody (the friendly giant) Franson or Luke (the hitting machine) Schenn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 If I was constructing a team I'd take pure offensive talent over grit and then make sure that the offensive talent develops toughness and defensive skills. It seems like the Canucks would rather have forwards that are defensively sound first then develop offense later which I think is wrong especially with fairly strong goaltending. A winning team should be trained to kill on offense and depending on who the team is, play defense accordingly. Either sit back then explode in transition or take it to them and demoralize them. The Canucks just want to keep things close though then hope for a bounce which I think is high effort, low value and demoralizing for the players and the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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