kmotamed Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The fact is, a lot of the people on here or are "fans" of the Canucks actually don't know too much about hockey and have no historical background like the one you were explaining. He is our best goalie of all time, but not just by a little... By leaps and bounds! I am fully confident in his ability to play and win consistently, whether he plays 30 games a season, or 60. To me, it feels like the more he plays, the better he does. And it's true, it's simply unfair to blame just the goalie for a loss since it is a team game, and there could be any number of issues working against us (injuries, lack of scoring, defensive collapses... even throw in biased officiating once in a while). All I know is, Lu has been one of the most solid & consistent players on this team, has shown tremendous character to be put in the position he's in now, and still want to play here. He should consider ourselves lucky instead of deserving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I don't want to get into mg bashing so I don't want to use the word incompetence, instead lets just say his trading history has been inadequate Aside from the clear dumping of salary from the San Jose sharks where Canucks acquired erhoff, mike gillis has done nothing to improve the team through the trade front Trading away bernier grabner and a no1 for Keith ballard and oreskovich was an awful trade when you consider that Bernier was acquired by gillis with a 2nd and 3rd rounder not to mention that bernier is still a useful player for the devils. Oreskovich was out of hockey at that time and really you can argue that there is no difference between bernier or Oreo or dale wiese. Then you have grabner, a no 1 pick who scored a spectacular hat trick for the nucks that year and a future no 1 for Keith Ballard who of course has not come as advertised. Cody hodgson for Zach kassian. Let's put aside all the drama with Cody and focus on the needs of the club. I'm good with trading hodgson but why trade Cody going into the playoffs when you knew that Kesler was playing with half a body. The window for a cup was closing for the nucks so why would you trade Cody for another rookie at least a year behind in development. Hodgson scored some key goals last years and say what you will about putting players in positions to succeed, at least Cody produced. Finally say what you will about how hard it is to find a power forward but it isn't exactly easy picking looking for a 2nd line center Gillis has mentioned many times that he needs to improve this team through trades and development of youth. But not only is he trading our youth away, he's not exactly improving our team while doing so I'm sure gillis is aware of his own trading record and has been shy in pulling the trigger on a luongo deal unless he hits it out of the park. Unfortunately not only is he making a mess out of this situation, he's once again failing to address the needs of the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longsuffering Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I have been a Canuck fan for 37 years and for years I lived with mediorce goaltending and dreams of the Canucks playing for the stanley cup. Back in 2006/7, along comes Luongo and wow, singlehandly pushed our team into the playoffs and was a rock in the Dallas playoff series especially in one of the longest playoff game ever to involve the Canucks. Back then, Luongo was regarded as a superstar as he alone gave the Canucks a chance to win every night. Flash forward to 2013, after the Canucks have made the playoffs every year except for one. After division titles and presidents trophies that apparently no one cares about. After Gillis played with his mind and made him captain then teared it off his jersey. After Luongo won a gold medal, the jennings trophy, and after taking us within one game of the stanley cup. The media and us fans wants to run him out of town. Remember, he didn't ask for a trade and only said he wouldn't mind being moved if it was best for the team. Yes later he said it was time to move on but at that time, he thought he had played his last game for the Canucks Luongo did collapse against Chicago but at the end of the day, Luongo made the stop on Patrick sharp and we finally beat the black hawks. In the cup finals, our offence couldn't produce, yet we made it to the 7th game of the finals. Who do you think got us there, Luongo of course. With all that history, Luongo now has to share playing time with Schneider and is now considered a back up. Schneider is very good but he's still an unproven starter that hasn't won many titles everywhere he's played. Schneider has been given the chance this year and clearly the last few games shows he's not ready yet. Stop with all the nonsense about playing into a rhythm, Cory has been a back up and has played very well with minimal games the last two years. One thing i don't' understand is that Marty Brodeur still plays for the devils, Miller still plays for the Sabres, Cam Ward still plays for the hurricanes, and Fleury still plays for the penguins. These are all elite goaltenders that can and have had off years in their career. We have Luongo, why do we want to run the best goaltender we've had out of town? One point many fans have forgotten in my opinion is that this is Luongo's team, the core guys developed through the years that Luongo has been here. With the way the team is playing infront of Schneider and the way Cory has been playing (last year, he made every save look easy. He looked like he wasn't moving between post to post. This year he's flopping around and losing his post and angles) Its time to give Luongo the starting job and let him run with it. Yes Luongo was ventilated in Detroit but he's had his shares of bad games. Its time the Canucks get off their 'Schnieds' and give Luongo one last stand to lead the team he's back stopped the last 7 years. The core group deserves one last chance to run with Luongo, a shot at the playoffs and the stanley cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrippledCanuck Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Marty and the like don't constantly have meltdowns in games, and let in 8 goals in the stanley cup finals, and do this multiple times in every playoff run. This is so simple, how can you not understand? Whether or not you want Luongo gone, you must be able to understand the reason many people do. Stop acting like it makes no sense. edit : also pretty tired of this "He took us to the SCF game 7" BS. our team was stacked as hell then. If we didn't make it really deep or win the cup, then it's a disappointment, and it was. He did the absolute furthest thing from putting the team on his back. He just managed to keep the number of meltdowns in net to a sustainable number to get us deep in the playoffs. (until the finals at least). that isn't even remotely the same as "him getting us to the stanley cup finals". almost any goalie would have "gotten us there" as well, with the team we had then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Not ragging on Thomas at all here. Just saying that a team that wasn't as good as us still found ways to score on him. Even if they were close games, there were still a lot more goals TB scored than we did. Goaltending was not the reason we lost the SCF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus099 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 s schnieder is better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Just wondering, to all those people who talk about how the team was suffering from injuries, suspensions etc. Does this not also apply to Luongo as well? I guess most fans assume that Luongo should stand on his head even though: -His most reliable d-man that year, Hamhuis, was injured and out for the series -Ehrhoff was playing with a shoulder injury -Edler had an injury as well (wrist? or back? I forget) -Bieksa was playing with Ballard who hadn't played in a game for weeks before being sent to play against Boston's number 1 line on his first shift back -Kesler was injured from the San Jose series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuretoMogilny Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 yes he is a better backup goalie I agree starter not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowtownCanuck Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Marty and the like don't constantly have meltdowns in games, and let in 8 goals in the stanley cup finals, and do this multiple times in every playoff run. This is so simple, how can you not understand? Whether or not you want Luongo gone, you must be able to understand the reason many people do. Stop acting like it makes no sense. edit : also pretty tired of this "He took us to the SCF game 7" BS. our team was stacked as hell then. If we didn't make it really deep or win the cup, then it's a disappointment, and it was. He did the absolute furthest thing from putting the team on his back. He just managed to keep the number of meltdowns in net to a sustainable number to get us deep in the playoffs. (until the finals at least). that isn't even remotely the same as "him getting us to the stanley cup finals". almost any goalie would have "gotten us there" as well, with the team we had then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus099 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 where did i say backup? who's played more games? who's on the trading block ya thought so oh you see that great 'film' the other day? hahahha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman60 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 In a nutshell, this team,as it is, is not good enough. The scoring on either the PP or at even strength is lacking. We have 2 good goalies but a team in front of them that offer little support. When MG has an opportunity to get a decent return for either of his goalies, he will pull the trigger. Depending on what players come to Vancouver in the trade, I think you will see a mini rebuild with a vet or two traded....maybe someone that few thought untouchable from the core. I have been a Canuck fan since day 1 and still remain a fan. After all those years of not winning a Cup, I think it is time to plan for a run at a later date and make those hard choices now. There should only be one goal, and that is to win the Cup.....with this group as is, it won't happen anytime soon. JMHO We need to prepare for the reduced cap and engineer an injection of quality prospects by trading some of the players that won't be around when the Cup finally comes to Vancouver. I am so tired of being a mediocre team whose motto is 'almost'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fagin Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 That about sums it up nicely, and Luongo is a 6 million dollar drag on our cap if we keep him as a backup. Right now 6 million in Defense or offense would look pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus099 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 That about sums it up nicely, and Luongo is a 6 million dollar drag on our cap if we keep him as a backup. Right now 6 million in Defense or offense would look pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papayas Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 That about sums it up nicely, and Luongo is a 6 million dollar drag on our cap if we keep him as a backup. Right now 6 million in Defense or offense would look pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowtownCanuck Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 you do realize that with the new contact Luongos caphit is only 1.3 million higher than Schneider's now right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus099 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 So we've tied up 10 mil in Goalies and we are getting the same result of having 2 average goalies for a total of 6 mil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 No, Thomas would have still been the MVP win or lose. Much like Giguere did in 2003. Thomas (as much as I hate him) carried his team and was the single greatest reason his team won. He set a record for saves in a playoff final round that may never be broken Lu, Kesler or whomever wouldn't have come close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 They gave Schneider his new bigger contract assuming he would be the clear #1 starter and Luongo would be traded, they were wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watermelons Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hamhuis groin (Boston) out surgery Ehrhoff shoulder (SJ) Edler had two broken fingers (Boston) Bieksa bruised acl (Boston) Kesler groin (Nashville) and Shoulder (SJ) Henrik back (Chicago) Samuelsson adductor tendon and a sports hernia (Nashville) out surgery Raymond back (Boston) out Higgins broken foot (Boston) Rome suspended (Boston) out As I've said many times, I blame injuries for the loss. To blame the offense with that many injuries is ridiculous. With that many injuries goaltending was our only hope of winning. Lou was bipolar. We simply couldn't afford any soft goals against and there were too many of them. That's where Lou failed. It's a lot to ask of your offense to score 5 or more when completely healthy and they weren't. I still believe we would have beat Boston had it not been for the number of injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 our issues are not in goal. I want Schnieder to stay because I think he is better, younger (fact), cheaper (fact) and he is stronger mentally (the difference between being very good and having the potential to be elite). that being said, what this season is showing is, it doesn't matter which goalie is in net if we continue to play this way. if trading schnieder means you get a guy like coutourier back and a pick well you have to consider it given our team and both short and long term holes. however, just that deal won't be enough to fix this team, something needs to change in the back end, we also need more size up front that plays with emotion. Effectively, this team doesn't need to be 'gutted' but its core needs to be changed. Its become stale, complacent, and lost its hunger. So if the best deal get us more for schnieder to address those issues, along with a couple other trades you do it. but if it doesn't i dont see why you trade a higher value asset for cheap just bc you can't sell a lower value asset for much. ie if I have a 2011 Porsche and a 2007 BMW, and my BMW is still damn good, alot of miles but hey its a BMW, reliable, good car, will go for alot more years but I want say 25k for it, and everyone is only offering me 15k because maybe it has a small dent in the door. Well I say its just one small dent, this thing will still hum along for 7-9 years and you know you're getting a great car. But still, nope 15k. Someone else comes to me and says well you can't sell your 2007 BMW so why don't you keep it, and sell me your 2011 Porsche for 55k, its more money and you still have a great car in the BMW. Well the Porsche is worth 100k so why would I sell it for 55k. I am going to let someone rip me off on a high value asset because I can't sell a lower value asset for what I want for it? No I say I'd rather lose 10k bc of the dent, than lose 45 k thats my best analogy and think this firmly applies with Lou and Schnieds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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