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[Proposal] Trades with Toronto and St Louis (no goalies)

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#1 elvis15

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

I was wondering if we could change around our fortunes a little and tried to think of who doesn't fit well with us and who would be better suited to our team. These two trades would both have to happen as they're dependant on each other somewhat.

To Van: Andy McDonald
To STL: Keith Ballard

McDonald is the better player, but a pending UFA with some injury history. He's currently injured but very close to returning and St Louis has plenty of center depth and is looking for a LH defenceman. Ballard could be that guy to step up and regain some of his form and his cap hit isn't an issue.

To Van: John-Michael Liles
To Tor: David Booth

Booth has had some struggles for us but is still capable of being secondary support. He plays physical and could be useful to Toronto - at least more useful than Liles, who's been a healthy scratch recently. Liles brings a better PP option for us, and it's just too bad he's not right handed.

Both deals have similar amounts of cap moving (we take on $225K more in cap hit). McDonald can be re-signed in the summer for less as he fits well in this team for the short term. Liles does have 4 more years, but is cheaper than Ballard and has more value in a trade. If we feel he doesn't fit and still need to cut cap, we have better options to move him.

We still have potential upgrades through a goalie deal, and a little more room for younger players.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Jensen McDonald Kassian
Higgins Raymond Hansen
Sestito Lapierre Weise
Pinizzotto

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Garrison
Liles Tanev
Alberts Barker

Once Kesler returns, we can put him back on the second and drop Jensen, or keep the 2nd as is and improve the 3rd line (since we really need some better faceoff ability).

Edited by elvis15, 11 March 2013 - 12:16 PM.

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#2 Pineapples

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

I like the thought of bringing Macdonald in.

Why has Liles been a scratch lately anyway? And with his contract, shouldn't we go for someone cheaper?
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#3 Xbox

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:25 PM

Yay! A legit trade proposal!

I strongly agree with both trades. Idk why Liles has been scratched. He has played well.

Edited by Henrik Sedin, 11 March 2013 - 12:25 PM.

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#4 elvis15

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:37 PM

I like the thought of bringing Macdonald in.

Why has Liles been a scratch lately anyway? And with his contract, shouldn't we go for someone cheaper?

Cheaper is better, but harder to sell when you're trying to unload a player with a high cap hit. The rumour around Liles being scratched is he's not defensively responsible enough, and that doesn't fly in a Carlyle-coached team. We'd have to be aware of that as well, but he'd at least be a more offensive option than Ballard and we could use him as more of a specialized player to inject some life into our PP.

I'm curious if either St Louis of Toronto would feel like they aren't getting fair value back, but I think it's fair. I'm even ok with moving Ballard for a pending UFA as I think he's much more likely to stay than some of the other proposed Ballard for a UFA deals.
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#5 jatylo

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

I really like the Andy Mc for Ballard trade. A little on the edge of the JML I think value wise it's a good trade, but i want Jensen to gel in the AHL before we rush him into the NHL. But I don't trust Alberts or Barker playing full time so i would probably take both trades

Edited by jatylo, 11 March 2013 - 12:39 PM.

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#6 Phil_314

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

This is one of those trade proposals that make me wish MG checks these boards.

Both of these deals (rationale-wise) make sense. I think the Ballard trade we'd have to add a decent pick though, Keith's value is not close to McDonald's when you consider their play. Sure, he's a UFA but Andy's still a strong player. In terms of utility Keith could be a buy-low pickup though. Also, if it actually happened McDonald would probably be the left wing, since he's been playing there with Backes in the middle (Kes takes that role when he comes back).

I'd do the Toronto one and pair J.M.L. with Garrison.
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#7 zombieksa

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

I would rather add on to the Toronto trade and possibly get Franson. Guy has been on a roll this season.
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#8 Pineapples

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

Cheaper is better, but harder to sell when you're trying to unload a player with a high cap hit. The rumour around Liles being scratched is he's not defensively responsible enough, and that doesn't fly in a Carlyle-coached team. We'd have to be aware of that as well, but he'd at least be a more offensive option than Ballard and we could use him as more of a specialized player to inject some life into our PP.

I'm curious if either St Louis of Toronto would feel like they aren't getting fair value back, but I think it's fair. I'm even ok with moving Ballard for a pending UFA as I think he's much more likely to stay than some of the other proposed Ballard for a UFA deals.


There was buzz that Stl wanted a top 4 D and Ballard could fit that so I think it's fair value.

I'm not sold on Liles because we need D that can actually play defence. And if he doesn't work for Carlyle, I'm not sure he'd fit with us. Though he would be good for helping the PP out. TO would probably like this deal since it's a scratched player for a potential top 6 F.
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#9 Pears

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

I like both of those deals. McDonald and Liles would be perfect for this team IMO. Veteran presence with a Cup ring and a puck moving D man.

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 11 March 2013 - 01:28 PM.

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#10 elvis15

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:01 PM

I really like the Andy Mc for Ballard trade. A little on the edge of the JML I think value wise it's a good trade, but i want Jensen to gel in the AHL before we rush him into the NHL. But I don't trust Alberts or Barker playing full time so i would probably take both trades

I agree about rushing Jensen. This could be a good opportunity to test him and other players in that slot, but we could also leverage existing players. Raymond could move to left wing, Lapierre to the 3rd line C, and we could try Pinizzotto out on the 4th. Ebbett and Schroeder are still players we can use as well, it's just finding the most effective use for each player.

I would rather add on to the Toronto trade and possibly get Franson. Guy has been on a roll this season.

Toronto wont mess with one of the reasons for their success when they're this close to playoffs. I wouldn't want to overpay to convince them to deviate from that, although he would be helpful as a RH defenceman. It won't happen unless things turn bad for them.

There was buzz that Stl wanted a top 4 D and Ballard could fit that so I think it's fair value.

I'm not sold on Liles because we need D that can actually play defence. And if he doesn't work for Carlyle, I'm not sure he'd fit with us. Though he would be good for helping the PP out. TO would probably like this deal since it's a scratched player for a potential top 6 F.

It's certainly understandable to be wary of the negatives, but I don't think Ballard helps us as much in his own end as he does by being a possession player forcing play to the offensive zone. Liles is more than capable of that, and we shelter him slightly to give more defensive minutes to guys like Garrison, Hamhuis, Tanev and Bieksa.

If it helps spark our PP, that can be just as effective as improving our defence.
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#11 Yotes

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

we would still end up with a high priced left d man that wouldnt fix our right side issue. 1st trade is decent if st louis would do it

no to bringing in any d man unless its a right shot
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#12 CB007

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:29 PM

Booth is not getting the support that I think he deserves here.

http://vansunsportsb...ner-in-the-nhl/

His play last year was just what you would expect from a 2nd liner. This year he has been in and out of the line up, and without Kesler. So I don't think we have given him a fair shake yet.

He is big and strong, he can skate, he drives to the net with the puck. Would be nice if he has a better shot and a bit more vision but what are you gonna do?
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#13 elvis15

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:31 PM

@ERIK: That's a little short-sighted, do you have any other reasoning?

Booth is not getting the support that I think he deserves here.

http://vansunsportsb...ner-in-the-nhl/

His play last year was just what you would expect from a 2nd liner. This year he has been in and out of the line up, and without Kesler. So I don't think we have given him a fair shake yet.

He is big and strong, he can skate, he drives to the net with the puck. Would be nice if he has a better shot and a bit more vision but what are you gonna do?

I like Booth despite his lack of production; he's probably the only player we have that will drive to the front of the net consistently like we've seen from him in the last couple games. I think he's a likely candidate to control our cap issues though, and we could use a playmaker to really fit with Kesler and whoever else is on that 2nd line.

Edited by elvis15, 11 March 2013 - 05:38 PM.

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#14 allkill326

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:37 PM

STL wouldn't accept a McDonald for Ballard deal, because McDonald has better puckhandling and is more in chemistry with his team.

Booth is much better than Liles.
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#15 CB007

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

I like Booth despite his lack of production; he's probably the only player we have that will drive to the front of the net consistently like we've seen from him in the last couple games. I think he's a likely candidate to control our cap issues though, and we could use a playmaker to really fit with Kesler and whoever else is on that 2nd line.


Should be Luongo. And that playmaker should be Kassian.... but we also should've win the Cup 2 years ago...
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#16 Gooseberries

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:10 PM

I think both trades are realistic and fair value. But every time I think of trading with stl I want to try for Berglund. I doubt they would let their 2c go though.
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#17 elvis15

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:21 PM

STL wouldn't accept a McDonald for Ballard deal, because McDonald has better puckhandling and is more in chemistry with his team.

Booth is much better than Liles.

McDonald is better, but a pending UFA coming into a 35+ contract and with some history of injuries. Those should factor in to bring his value at least close to Ballard's. We can't gauge what the actual GMs involved think, and McDonald's value to St Louis, but I think it's reasonable.

Although they're completely different players, they both have similar production so I don't agree that Booth is much better than Liles. That the Leafs have been sitting Liles is something that should affect their perception of his worth, but it'd depend on how much they feel Booth would help them or if they already have enough players similar to him that they might not go for that deal.

Should be Luongo. And that playmaker should be Kassian.... but we also should've win the Cup 2 years ago...

Luongo alone won't get our cap down to $64+M for next year. There will have to be one more move at least I'd think, and it'll have to involve a player making likely $4M or more. We'll lose Manny's contract for sure, but we aren't sure about the rest and how much cap we'll get back in a Luongo deal.

I think both trades are realistic and fair value. But every time I think of trading with stl I want to try for Berglund. I doubt they would let their 2c go though.

Thanks! Berglund would be great, but the value we'd have to give up probably makes it prohibitive. We also should have younger centers coming into the lineup in the next few years, so a useful veteran as a stopgap could be very useful.
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#18 Yotes

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:54 PM

what do you need to know, we trade on left d man who can pass the puck that is signed at 4.2m for another lefty that is signed at 3.5m who can pass the puck

its a lateral move that saves us 700k in cap.

Id rather us move ballard in a package for a top 6 or 3rd line center. and then pick up a veteran right shot like aucoin for the bottom pairing
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#19 laxgoalie

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:05 PM

I like these deals. McDonald has a cap hit of 4.2 million right? I think this is beneficial for all teams involved, good proposal. I think Booth and Liles both need a change of scenory, and could re-find their games in their new towns.
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#20 elvis15

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:56 PM

McDonald has a cap hit of $4.7M, which is mostly evened out by the money we'd save in the Booth/Liles exchange. Still we take back $225K in cap hit this year, which will decrease when (or if) we re-sign McDonald to a 35+ deal, since he won't earn as much.

I don't know if the Blues would do it, but maybe they could have a conditional pick included with McDonald for if he re-signs or not. It'd only be a 4th or something, and if we re-sign him, it's nothing.
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#21 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:02 AM

Booth is not getting the support that I think he deserves here.

http://vansunsportsb...ner-in-the-nhl/

His play last year was just what you would expect from a 2nd liner. This year he has been in and out of the line up, and without Kesler. So I don't think we have given him a fair shake yet.

He is big and strong, he can skate, he drives to the net with the puck. Would be nice if he has a better shot and a bit more vision but what are you gonna do?


Agree 100%

Booth is much better than Liles.


Totally agree.


Not a fan of trading Booth, don't mind the Ballard deal, but I think Ballard is a better player to have for a playoff run than Liles and I don't think Jensen is ready on the 2nd line.

I like MacDonald, but the injures worry me, I would ask for Sobotka first, but I wouldn't mind settling for MacDonald, just not to replace Booth, to play with him and Kes.
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#22 elvis15

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:15 AM

It's essentially Booth for McDonald and Ballard for Liles, but you have to move assets to the teams that will take them.

I can definitely see preferring someone like Sobotka, but I think we would have to give up more than Ballard to do it. We have some future possibilities at center as Schroeder gets better and players like Gaunce and Mallet continue to develop, but we can use a veteran presence with playmaking ability to anchor that second lie in Kesler's absence.

This way we reduce cap and keep our assets for the future, as well as fill some holes we have. If Liles were right handed it'd be ideal in my opinion, but so long as we have a good option on the right side (regardless of what side they shoot from) or can move for someone still that fills that need, then I'm happy.
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#23 elvis15

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

Booth still playing well tonight, but no luck on the finish. Ballard out and Barker looking ok as a right side option. I'd pull the trigger on this then see what else we can do with a goalie trade.
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