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What can AV even do with this team?


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#61 Baggins

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:51 PM

lol......ok there sparky.

If this is the best these guys can play then Gillis needs to blow the damn thing up now because they are going nowhere.

One finals appearance (with a VERY talented and deep team) and nothing beyond the 2nd round other than that. Even worse, pretty much every one of those playoffs he got destroyed on the coaching front and the team got destroyed on the motivation front. Yes, clearly he is a juggernaut.

Oh, and before you say it, no one cares about President's Trophies other than AV fans.


I could give a rats tush who the coach is. I see the Presidents Trophy as quite a team accomplishment. Particularly back to back years.
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#62 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:52 PM

THen you have Torts!!

"We sucked"!! I couldn't be more disgusted with this group"!! :lol:
"have you asked them (the players)"? Why do I have to be here and answer these questions all the time"?
Very entertaining.
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#63 Dazzle

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:55 PM

*
POPULAR

Who here is scratching their heads asking, "What the hell is AV talking about?" with his comment that -- "the team is playing better than many may be thinking right now."

I've been an AV supporter for a long time and still think that getting rid of him during the season is not the best thing, but geezzzz, I'm starting to wonder what he's referring to when he makes such comments...case in point:

(1) Ineffective PP (and yes, this falls on Brown's shoulders, but AV needs to step in if things aren't working)
(2) Inability to alleviate pressure on the left wing lock forechecking that the right side d-men are dealing with
(3) Ill-time pinches by our d-men along the offensive blue line
(4) Inability of the forwards to generate any kind of offence
(5) Inability of the d-men to play physical and shut down gaps in spite of their size
(6) Constant bungling of the puck by Edler
(7) "Average" goaltending (these were Schneider's words, not mine)
(8) "I have to play better" -- Luongo

Sorry if my list sound uber-negative, and I hope that we are going to pull out of slump sooner than later (last night vs. Blue Jackets could have gone either way, so I don't think we're out of the woods yet), but the reality is we are playing like a .500 club, and for AV to come out and say that he thinks we're playing "better" than what we may think is almost unbelievable.

I like to think I'm a student of the game and understand the nuances fairly well, but am I missing something here? Did something get lost in the translation? Am I alone with being stunned by AV's comments?

AV made a comment the other day which was something like -- "We are where we thought we would be at this time" which made me stop...and after thinking about it, I thought, yeah, that's a fair comment to make given the circumstances the team has been dealing with since Day 1...but to say that we're playing better than what meets the eye, I don't get it...

This comment is about as flabbergasting to me as when he admitted that he didn't have a Plan B for Daniel's absence last spring.

SOMEONE PLEASE...explain this to me like I'm a six year old so I can understand!!!


I think this topic that you have raised will create a lot of discussion.

If I were to take a stab at this, one can make the argument that AV is content with mediocrity.

This is the same coach that uses the media to discuss about a single player's bad game but when the whole team generally isn't performing up-to-par, he says that the team is not doing as bad as it looks?

Getting hemmed inside the zone at the start of the third period, forcing AV to take a RARE timeout (he has characteristically avoided calling timeouts) is not what I consider to be a team that is 'playing good'.

Too many giveaways, namely by Edler and Alberts (although it is not just these two). The giveaways are atrocious and the amount of bad plays illustrates a lack of preparation rather than individual players per se.

It was easy to use Ballard as a scapegoat when really the problems were much bigger than it is.

This team is performing like a bubble team, struggling to make the playoffs. They really need to change up the coach if the Canucks bounce out of the playoffs.

Look at Columbus, an underachieving team that completely outworked the Canucks for the majority of the game.

They actually look hungry to make the playoffs.

The Canucks have been throwing away too many games and a lot of that burden falls on the coach, not just the players themselves.

Edited by Dazzle, 13 March 2013 - 01:56 PM.

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#64 aqua59

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

Who here is scratching their heads asking, "What the hell is AV talking about?" with his comment that -- "the team is playing better than many may be thinking right now."

I've been an AV supporter for a long time and still think that getting rid of him during the season is not the best thing, but geezzzz, I'm starting to wonder what he's referring to when he makes such comments...case in point:

(1) Ineffective PP (and yes, this falls on Brown's shoulders, but AV needs to step in if things aren't working)
(2) Inability to alleviate pressure on the left wing lock forechecking that the right side d-men are dealing with
(3) Ill-time pinches by our d-men along the offensive blue line
(4) Inability of the forwards to generate any kind of offence
(5) Inability of the d-men to play physical and shut down gaps in spite of their size
(6) Constant bungling of the puck by Edler
(7) "Average" goaltending (these were Schneider's words, not mine)
(8) "I have to play better" -- Luongo

Sorry if my list sound uber-negative, and I hope that we are going to pull out of slump sooner than later (last night vs. Blue Jackets could have gone either way, so I don't think we're out of the woods yet), but the reality is we are playing like a .500 club, and for AV to come out and say that he thinks we're playing "better" than what we may think is almost unbelievable.

I like to think I'm a student of the game and understand the nuances fairly well, but am I missing something here? Did something get lost in the translation? Am I alone with being stunned by AV's comments?

AV made a comment the other day which was something like -- "We are where we thought we would be at this time" which made me stop...and after thinking about it, I thought, yeah, that's a fair comment to make given the circumstances the team has been dealing with since Day 1...but to say that we're playing better than what meets the eye, I don't get it...

This comment is about as flabbergasting to me as when he admitted that he didn't have a Plan B for Daniel's absence last spring.

SOMEONE PLEASE...explain this to me like I'm a six year old so I can understand!!!


Everything is troubling to me about this AV character.
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#65 RobertoLuongo.

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:08 PM

I think this is kinda AV's MO. He is never shy to say something like this in the media, whether it is about a player, or how the team is playing in general.

My guess is that he is trying to use the media to fire up his players. I would assume reporters would jump all over this and go to players and ask how they feel about the situation and what the coach thinks of it. Similar to what AV has been doing with Kesler, I think he is using this as a motivation tactic. However, I don't agree with him in doing this, as he is essentially throwing the team under the bus. He should talk to the team behind closed doors and try to iron things out, rather than trying to motivate through the media (unless he's tried already, which means this was probably plan B?)
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#66 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:09 PM

It sounds better and less desperate than saying, "Ya, you know what, you guys are right. I am totally and completely out of ideas and don't know what the frack is going on here."
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#67 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

It sounds better and less desperate than saying, "Ya, you know what, you guys are right. I am totally and completely out of ideas and don't know what the frack is going on here."


I'd have a lot more respect for the guy if he'd say it exactly like this instead of being so enigmatic and frustrating with his replies.
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#68 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:12 PM

Seriously, it is an attempt at media spin. Gillis will come out later today or tomorrow and say the exact same thing, preaching patience, etc. It is their MO.
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#69 Pistachios

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:14 PM

For most of the guys on the team the effort is there.

What the Canucks are lacking though is execution, and as Booth said during his interview last game, every team goes through cold streaks.

I think AV recognizes the effort put in by most guys (even Edler folks).

I think once Kesler and Bieksa come back, the team will have two crucial components back in their line up. And if they can finally solidify a third line center that works with Booth/Kassian the team will be MUCH better.

The Canucks are a good team- just look at the line up. Just let them play their way out of it.
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#70 Bodee

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

lol......ok there sparky.

If this is the best these guys can play then Gillis needs to blow the damn thing up now because they are going nowhere.

One finals appearance (with a VERY talented and deep team) and nothing beyond the 2nd round other than that. Even worse, pretty much every one of those playoffs he got destroyed on the coaching front and the team got destroyed on the motivation front. Yes, clearly he is a juggernaut.

Oh, and before you say it, no one cares about President's Trophies other than AV fans.


I actually saw signs of the old Canucks in the first 40 last night. However that is not to say we will once more dominate the Conferenc/League. I say that because many, if not all, of the other teams have tried to upgrade. Some have managed and some haven't. But it matters little, as we have stood still since '11

I disagree entirely with the chap above who said we passed too much. I thought it was when our passing was at its most and best that we put doubts in the Jacket's psyche.

Edited by Bodee, 13 March 2013 - 02:22 PM.

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#71 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:26 PM

I could give a rats tush who the coach is. I see the Presidents Trophy as quite a team accomplishment. Particularly back to back years.


When you play in a division where you are the ONLY team who makes the playoffs, I think it might be a tad overrated......

The point is, who cares if it does not translate to postseason success? Not me. Winning the regular season means jack squat except for fans who know in the back of their minds that this team is not an elite one and is not competitive come playoff time.
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#72 Mrock-763

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:27 PM

AV... :picard:
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#73 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

He thinks the team is playing good because dump and chase lifeless hockey is his idea of a good game. Plus, he got his plug Ebbett back so he feels more comfortable.

Honestly, this comment alone should get him fired as he is clearly delusional.
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#74 CanadianRugby

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:43 PM

What is Kassian worth? How about Gragnani? That is what is left of Hodgson.

What is Burrows worth with 4 goals and a 4.5 million dollar contract?

What is Kesler worth now that he is broken down for two years?


I agree with most of what you said, and our team now is a shadow of what it was 2 years ago. But...

Teams like Edmonton and Toronto would kill to have a young power forward like Kassian

Burrows is an affordable 1st/2nd liner thats clutch, versatile and is a pest. At the trade deadline you'd get a ton for him from most playoff bound teams

Kesler is one of the best 2 way players in the league. Not what he once was since he's always hurt but come on, if you think he doesn't still have huge trade value you need to give your head a shake.
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#75 canacks1970

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:43 PM

Funny how back in 06-07 when AV became the Canucks coach he was given the Jack Adams award for being the so called best coach, even though it was the first year Luongo was here, and played one of his best years ever. The Canucks back then were not as solid as they are today, so there wasn't big expectations so everyone figured AV was this great coach and deserved the Jack Adams.

Funny how he is kinda in the same situation this year, the team isn't as solid as it was last year, with injuries, and he's not getting the goaltending to bail him out like he did in 06-07. Without the goaltending like Luongo was in 06-07 AV is useless, and it's defintially showing now. If the goaltending was as sharp as Luongo was back in 06-07 everyone would be bowing down to AV and still saying how good of a coach he is, but goaltending isn't bailing him out and he can't do anything else because he sucks.




Doesn't matter how you look at it you still need good goaltending to win championships. Back in 06/07 we had an aging core offensively but it was a defense first . What could A.V do with the talent he had back then. But I agree with what your saying.
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#76 Bring_Back_Bertuzzi

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

he cant do anything AV is useless
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#77 theminister

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

He should do this for a game:

Sestito-Ebbett-Weise
Higgins-Lappy-Kassian
Booth-Raymond-Hansen
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows

Ballard-Barker
Garrison-Tanev
Hamhuis-Bieksa

Luongo


Send a message.

Because that message would be as clear as the ones he sending now.
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#78 Phil_314

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:49 PM

First of all, keep Ebbett away from the roster. Get a new 13th forward.

Next he really needs to do his homework when it comes to setting his lines; he'll have to work with what he's got in terms of roster guys, so he should really put together guys whose skills would work together (e.g. play-making Schroeder - shooter Booth --> if Jordan's ready that is, if not I wouldn't mind Goc/ Bozak) and when he's set on his lines, KEEP them that way. I mean, he kept shuffling Raymond, Higgins and Hansen in different combos and spots, and so any chemistry that may have been developing would've been broken as quickly as that line was assembled.

I'd also keep Hansen, Garrison, Kassian and occasionally Ballard on the power play. It's a good sign that Jannik's offensive numbers are up to around Top 6 numbers, so I'd say let him keep getting time with the extra man. Two reasons: he passes the puck and he can get back quickly in case of mistakes, on top of joining the scrum for pucks in front or in the corners. He also set up Garry's bomb in last night's game; in turn, Garry needs more opportunities to use that shot, esp. when the point-men are close to each other. Kass needs PP time, he can do well in front of the net, and so he should be planted there in front of the goalie for screens and tips. Ballard should get puck-moving time on the PP to prove his worth (or if that doesn't work try Barker).

I'd also try to acquire a play-making 3rd line center (Goc/ Bozak/ call Schroeder?); would rather see Lapierre back on the 4th. Nothing against his offensive abilities, just think that he's much better than softies Schroeder and Ebbett in that position.

With Kes out I'd like to see a power play like this (with Booth rotating in occasionally on the 2nd unit):


Dan – Hank – Kassian
Hamhuis – Edler

Hansen – Higgins – Raymond
Garrison – Bieksa

Just put the best team formations forward and stick with them.

Edited by g@m3b0i, 13 March 2013 - 06:54 PM.

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#79 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

He should do this for a game:

Sestito-Ebbett-Weise
Higgins-Lappy-Kassian
Booth-Raymond-Hansen
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows

Ballard-Barker
Garrison-Tanev
Hamhuis-Bieksa

Luongo


Send a message.

Because that message would be as clear as the ones he sending now.


For the love of all that is good.....please do not give him ideas.....
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#80 Riviera82

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:36 PM

Peppered? He faced an average of 28 shots per game. The only reason he faced so many shots was because he played 76 games. If you average out his other seasons over the same amount of games as his first they are all the 28 shots per game range. In 2006-2007 his average was 28.5 shots against per game, which would have put him at 15th in the league in shots faced per game. The Canucks also had the leagues best power play.

If you dont think Luongo first year success had anything to do with the fact that this team had a very good defence, you are simply blind.

Its you AV haters that I find so easy to laugh at. When the team dominates it all the players, when they struggle its all on the coach. Was it AVs fault that Luongo melted down in net how many times against the Hawks? Or that Hamhuis, Edler, Ehrhoff, Kesler, and Samuelsson were all either out or playing injured in the finals?


Somewhat, yes. AV has allowed Luongo to get ventilated every year since '09 when the meltdowns started. He would never pull him out until it was far too late and Luongo's confidence was destroyed.

Edited by Riviera82, 13 March 2013 - 07:37 PM.

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#81 kassian's lost tooth

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:57 PM

The meaning is this - Teams are not always as great as they appear... Just as Teams are not always as bad as they appear, what fans fail to recognize is that the parity is this league is higher than its ever been and the line that divides a team winning vs a team losing is smaller than its ever been.

In otherwords... don't stress things sit back watch the games and enjoy (or don't) but let the people who know hockey and are paid to be at the helm do what they do. Constant fans and media whining and complaining that things aren't how they expect them to be is not just tiresome its futile.


But it's what fans do. It's why (partially) this message board exists. Don't like it, don't read the posts.
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#82 Pineapples

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:05 PM

Could it be that AV is coaching to lose so that he can create some adversity to motivate the players? That would be crazy but he obviously sees what us fans see. What better way to create urgency then to go on a losing streak.


That would be pretty sad if that was the case. Our team would be in serious trouble. Hopefully they get it together though now.
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#83 Lulover88

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:13 PM

unless we win the cup this year AV will be a goner ,and If i were mike and i was given a great package for kesler id trade em in a second .. i dont think hes done like some people on this board say . I just dont think hes great in the room .. and i hate the diving .. it gives our team a bad reputation .
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#84 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

This team has lived of the PP for some time now and, as was inevitable, the PP has been figured out by most of our opponents. AV's job is to improve our 5 on 5 play somehow.


I don't mind having a mediocre powerplay. That's for the regular season. In the playoffs, penalties are seldom given. I personally believe that the Canucks' undoing for the last three years was exactly that; wait for a PP to score.

I would rather have a team that dominates 5 on 5 than a special team team any day.

In a way, the Canucks are a better team now that the PP is mediocre because it forces the players to figure out other ways to win.
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#85 Dazzle

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:46 PM

Funny how back in 06-07 when AV became the Canucks coach he was given the Jack Adams award for being the so called best coach, even though it was the first year Luongo was here, and played one of his best years ever. The Canucks back then were not as solid as they are today, so there wasn't big expectations so everyone figured AV was this great coach and deserved the Jack Adams.

Funny how he is kinda in the same situation this year, the team isn't as solid as it was last year, with injuries, and he's not getting the goaltending to bail him out like he did in 06-07. Without the goaltending like Luongo was in 06-07 AV is useless, and it's defintially showing now. If the goaltending was as sharp as Luongo was back in 06-07 everyone would be bowing down to AV and still saying how good of a coach he is, but goaltending isn't bailing him out and he can't do anything else because he sucks.


Goaltending has actually seemed improved over last year.

To say that goaltending is the reason for why we have lost is juvenile and overly simplistic. The goalies weren't perfect but the team defense and the overall preparation of the team is greatly lacking.
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#86 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:26 PM

Goaltending has actually seemed improved over last year.

To say that goaltending is the reason for why we have lost is juvenile and overly simplistic. The goalies weren't perfect but the team defense and the overall preparation of the team is greatly lacking.


I think goaltending is the LAST thing to worry about right now. Not perfect as you say, but wow do they get hung out to dry a lot by the overall lack of urgency and general laziness of the overall team D.
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#87 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:28 PM

There are many things thats wrong with the team atm...PP isn't clicking, Goal tender is playing mediocre, defence is crapping the bed every night...it's just terrible...and now we have no choice but to rely on Ebbett?....


Keep trading away high picks and draft slots and that is exactly what you get:

2004: no second pick
2005: no third pick
2006: traded first pick Grabner, had no second, fourth or fifth
2007: traded first and second (White and Ellington), no third or fourth round picks
2008: traded first pick (Hodgson), no third or fourth round pick
2009: drafted a smurff (Schroeder)
2010: traded first, second and third round picks
2011: traded second round pick, acquired a third and fourth, but drafted a dud of a goalie with the third (Honzik)
2012: traded third and fourth round picks

Just to provide context, we traded Grabner (an NHL thirty-four goal/fifty-two point scorere in his rookie year for a D who can barely play in our top six.
We traded Hodgson. currently one point behind Henrik for a guy who can barely make our fourth line.

We have pretty much nothing left of the other draft slots traded except for Higgins and Lapierre, as a further point of reference - Edler was a third rounder, Raymond a second, Bieksa a fifth, and Hansen a ninth.

So for 3 firsts, 5 seconds, 5 thirds, and 5 fourths - we have Higgins, Ballard and Kassian. Not a trade many GM's would make.
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#88 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:30 PM

AV should quit his job
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#89 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:47 PM

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
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Higgins-Burrows-Hansen
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#90 DIBdaQUIB

DIBdaQUIB

    Canucks Second-Line

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:15 PM

I think goaltending is the LAST thing to worry about right now. Not perfect as you say, but wow do they get hung out to dry a lot by the overall lack of urgency and general laziness of the overall team D.


Agreed.

I've been paying more attention to other "top" goalies the last few weeks to get a more objective perspective on our situation.

We are spoiled!!! Our goalies get crucified every time they make a slight mistake or mis-read, even when they allow a goal on a breakaway. Other top goalies let in plenty of stinkers and make some pretty bad plays/mis-judgements at times too and often, those are far worse than we see with our two guys.

The problem is scoring. The commentators on TSN tonight were talking about "3" being the magic number of goals in the NHL this year. IF you socre 3 goals in a game, your odds of winning are very good. Less than 3 and you are likely going to lose.

WE have 12 games so far this season (50%) where we have failed to score more than 2 goals!!! This is putting tremendous pressure on our D and goalies who have to play perfect hockey to give the team a chance to win.

Our offensive production is weak this year with far too many players not contributing on the score board. Is it a result of poor line combinations/constant juggling; a defence first mentality that stymies offensive break-outs/efforts; a group of players who really don't have the offensive skill to put up reasonable numbers; players not being utilized properly to give them the best chance to succeed; is it an attitude that/belief that has created a culture where 1 goal games/close games are expected and therefore the passion and energy to create offence is not present?

I personally think it is a combination of all those things. Almost all are diretly related to coaching decisions ans style. SLumps happen with all teams but this team has been struggling since the last half of last year. 24 games into this season, this team has played like an average team and is only competitive because of its goaltending.

Twenty-four games (added to last year's ending) is more than a slump. It's a team that is not playing hockey responsibly and with the required passion and effort to be successful. They are not making the adjustments to set the pace and control their own destiny by allowing other teams to play their game instead.

I'm not sure AV has any answers and if I were the owner, I would feel like Buffalo did about LIndy...a great guy that did a lot of good things but there are more questions than answers surrounfing the team and ultimately that falls on the coach, followed by the GM. .
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