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Updated: BCNU cozying up to BC Liars urging them to sign nursing bill (bill 18)


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#31 ronthecivil

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:52 AM

Yes but that does not change the information provided - The employer supported the raid which is unheard of outside of CLAC - then in an about turn apposed them being moved into the RN's bargaining unit knowing full well that during the raid that was a #1 demand ... supports my comment that it makes it odd and suspect to motive

And lastly on the cherry picking - it is my understanding that labor boards and employers have nearly always apposed this. Imagine you own a grocery store that everyone belongs to UFCW. If 6 or 7 departments one by one ( by classification ) breaks free and moves to a different union - a private sector employer could find themselves behind picket lines 365 days a year as unions rotate through like domino's in bargaining. Makes it odd that the goverment would support what private sector would never support

But back to the reasons for my post - Given the way the raid was supported and then not supported by employers and given the fact that if pushed the NDP would have to agree that permitting raiding on employer dime and time is not acceptable ... it is reason enough to steer clear while Bill 18 issues are live. It is not the NDP that has set dangereous precident and they did not condem the process in the news - they simply did not attend which I would think would be a prudent thing.


Except it's the opposite. Half of the nurses are in one union, and half are in another. And regardless of whether or not one is in one union or the other if a picket line goes up nobody in any union crosses it.

Truly frightening that the kind of logic that goes looney because the democratic right of people working in the exact same profession doing the same job at the same time to decide to be in the same union violates some sort of bizarre solidarity movement is about to become mainstream.

God forbid the people cleaning the floors won't have the added leverage of being lumped in with half the nurses when it comes time to negotiate their contract..... :rolleyes:
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#32 J529

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:37 PM

Leave it to J529 to support the BC NDPers, YAY!

After all, we should totally accept mistakes here and there, as long as it's the NDP that's doing it. YAY!

Any other party that makes mistakes? VOTE NDP of course!


You and others posting in here seem to think Christy and his Government can do no wrong. If the big bad NDP takes power, omg it's the return of the 90's.

Same with the media. They give the Liberals 15 minutes of coverage and NDP about 2 minutes worth.
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#33 J529

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:43 PM

Some people just really like to use a stupid catch phrase like "BC Liars" any chance they get. The actual story was probably of little concern to the OP.


You presume wrong. The story was of alot of interest to me, actually. Once again HEU is targeted. People using reason/excuse that HEU was too weak of a union, etc. Doesn't change the fact BCNU raided HEU. Plain and simple. There's an unwritten union code and one union raiding another is a no no. BCNU deserved to be blacklisted by the NDP, BC Fed of Labour and all the blacklash they get.
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#34 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:31 PM

You presume wrong. The story was of alot of interest to me, actually. Once again HEU is targeted. People using reason/excuse that HEU was too weak of a union, etc. Doesn't change the fact BCNU raided HEU. Plain and simple. There's an unwritten union code and one union raiding another is a no no. BCNU deserved to be blacklisted by the NDP, BC Fed of Labour and all the blacklash they get.

So you are opposed to acting in accordance with the BC Labour Relations Code and you are against democracy.

Good to know.

See:
http://forum.canucks.../#entry11209152

Edited by Wetcoaster, 16 April 2013 - 06:32 PM.

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#35 J529

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

So you are opposed to acting in accordance with the BC Labour Relations Code and you are against democracy.

Good to know.

See:
http://forum.canucks.../#entry11209152



What the raid (which is what it really is) or as you want to call is (voting to move to another union) is all about greater power and influence

Q: Why does BCNU want LPNs in their union?
A: More than anything else, this raid is about BCNU trying to gain greater influence and control over LPNs' expanding role in health care. They are threatened by the gains LPNs are making with HEU's independent advocacy. BCNU has always tried to limit where LPNs can practice. But their efforts to restrict our utilization have failed. The most direct way of achieving greater control is by absorbing LPNs into their RN-controlled union where LPNs' unique professional interests will always be outweighed by the needs of RNs.


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#36 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:04 PM

What the raid (which is what it really is) or as you want to call is (voting to move to another union) is all about greater power and influence

How about a link for that quote?
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#37 J529

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:36 PM

How about a link for that quote?


www.heu.org/lpnsinfo/qanda
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#38 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:47 PM

www.heu.org/lpnsinfo/qanda

LOL

You do realize that the BC LRB after a full hearing completely dismissed those claims by HEU (and also the by the BCGEU) in the originating decision and in the appeal for re-consideration, do you not?

The BCNU complied with the requirements of the Labour Relations Code including a democratic vote by the LPNs.
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#39 iwtl

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:11 PM

Except it's the opposite. Half of the nurses are in one union, and half are in another. And regardless of whether or not one is in one union or the other if a picket line goes up nobody in any union crosses it.

Truly frightening that the kind of logic that goes looney because the democratic right of people working in the exact same profession doing the same job at the same time to decide to be in the same union violates some sort of bizarre solidarity movement is about to become mainstream.

God forbid the people cleaning the floors won't have the added leverage of being lumped in with half the nurses when it comes time to negotiate their contract..... :rolleyes:


Nearly all cleaners in hospitals have been contracted out. Lpn's have voted to move to bcnu - it's a dead issue. With 13 thousand laid off bc workers last month and the only work christy does is to move lpn's to bcnu's bargaining group?

Bc worker needs a government more concerned about workers than buying votes
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#40 J529

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:11 PM

LOL

You do realize that the BC LRB after a full hearing completely dismissed those claims by HEU (and also the by the BCGEU) in the originating decision and in the appeal for re-consideration, do you not?

The BCNU complied with the requirements of the Labour Relations Code including a democratic vote by the LPNs.


You do realize that if NDP takes power and forms Goverment, they could do away with this Bill as payback for BCNU raiding HEU. As I said before, why do you think BCNU was getting all friendly with the Liberals to get this through before the election. They know and fear the NDP wouldn't do it. No doubt majority of BCNU members will vote Liberal for this little goody. I hope NDP if takes power, they remove Bill 18 and stick to the BCNU.

The parties have until April, 2014, to bring licensed practical nurses under the same collective agreement as registered nurses. Until then, existing terms and conditions for LPNs will stay in effect, resulting in no immediate cost increases, Dr. MacDiarmid said in a statement.


Edited by J529, 16 April 2013 - 09:18 PM.

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#41 Dazzle

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:19 PM

You and others posting in here seem to think Christy and his Government can do no wrong. If the big bad NDP takes power, omg it's the return of the 90's.

Same with the media. They give the Liberals 15 minutes of coverage and NDP about 2 minutes worth.


I have consistently said that the BC Liberals, in this current state, are an awful choice. I dare you to go through my posts and pull out something where I have validated this current Liberal government in any way. Of course, you can go on about your pro-NDP rhetoric though - you ain't fooling anyone.

The very arguments that you are presenting against the BC Liberals, you are not applying for your beloved NDP. It has nothing to do with you voting the NDP per se, but like I said before, your reasoning for choosing the NDP is pure sheep mentality with no substance. I'm starting to think that you are an NDP plant, not that I care. I think you're helping to devaluate the NDP - more power to you then. They aren't great of a choice, especially if you have no platform this upcoming election.

People like you are why we consistently choose bad parties because we don't have 'any other choice'. When can we see the BC Liberals and the NDP fighting hard to get our votes? Two scandal-ridden parties vying to be a better choice? Pffft.
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#42 J529

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:37 PM

I have consistently said that the BC Liberals, in this current state, are an awful choice. I dare you to go through my posts and pull out something where I have validated this current Liberal government in any way. Of course, you can go on about your pro-NDP rhetoric though - you ain't fooling anyone.

The very arguments that you are presenting against the BC Liberals, you are not applying for your beloved NDP. It has nothing to do with you voting the NDP per se, but like I said before, your reasoning for choosing the NDP is pure sheep mentality with no substance. I'm starting to think that you are an NDP plant, not that I care. I think you're helping to devaluate the NDP - more power to you then. They aren't great of a choice, especially if you have no platform this upcoming election.

People like you are why we consistently choose bad parties because we don't have 'any other choice'. When can we see the BC Liberals and the NDP fighting hard to get our votes? Two scandal-ridden parties vying to be a better choice? Pffft.


A Liberal supporter admitting they're awful choice in their current state. Despite that, do you believe they should be re-elected as they would be the lesser of two evils? The one you know as some right-wingers have said, as opposed to the NDP, who is like a bad movie you don't want to see a second time (90's NDP) Despite the NDP being 20 pts. ahead of the Liberals in the polls, it really can go either way. NDP could wipe the Liberals out or it's alot closer then the polls, media and everyone predicted.

NDP Plant? Umm. No. I'm not. Not associated or belong to any party. There are other choices in Tories and Greens, but honestly they aren't winning any seats. Greens always say come election time beit Provincial or Federal, how they're going to break through this time, win some seats and they ended up winning none. Granted, they actually did win a seat in the last Federal election. People like me are responsible for picking bad parties? Give your head a shake. How about people like you that have kept the Liberals in power for 12 years. I don't know who you support Federally, but the dumb people in this country made a huge mistake in giving Harper and Tories a majority. At least when they only had a minority, they couldn't get away with the crap they're doing now. They're selling the country off.

Edited by J529, 16 April 2013 - 11:38 PM.

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#43 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:45 PM

You do realize that if NDP takes power and forms Goverment, they could do away with this Bill as payback for BCNU raiding HEU. As I said before, why do you think BCNU was getting all friendly with the Liberals to get this through before the election. They know and fear the NDP wouldn't do it. No doubt majority of BCNU members will vote Liberal for this little goody. I hope NDP if takes power, they remove Bill 18 and stick to the BCNU.

It would not surprise me to see.

As I have said I expect the NDP to govern as labour puppets and trample upon rights such as the right to freedom of association which has been lawfully exercised by the LPNs.

Mind you the courts might have something to say about that.
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#44 iwtl

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:04 AM

It would not surprise me to see.

As I have said I expect the NDP to govern as labour puppets and trample upon rights such as the right to freedom of association which has been lawfully exercised by the LPNs.

Mind you the courts might have something to say about that.


It was the BC Liberals through Bill 29 that started this mess and pitting union against union. Gordo is laughing hard at his hand well played.

However to correct you - the evidence clearly indicates that it was the BC Liberals that trampled on rights such as freedom of association - Bill 29 settlement was 85 Million dollars.

So we know that the BC Liberals have trampled on those rights

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ealreached.html

Other than the NDP not cheering the raid what is your reliable source that this would occur under the NDP goverment? I mean we know that only right wing parties who also support "right to work" support raiding of unions ...So it should be no supprise that they don't support it - but if I am correct the unions being raided appealled the raid but never challenged the final vote - It's over folks - Lpn's have moved unions and it is a dead issue.
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#45 Dazzle

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:55 PM

A Liberal supporter admitting they're awful choice in their current state. Despite that, do you believe they should be re-elected as they would be the lesser of two evils? The one you know as some right-wingers have said, as opposed to the NDP, who is like a bad movie you don't want to see a second time (90's NDP) Despite the NDP being 20 pts. ahead of the Liberals in the polls, it really can go either way. NDP could wipe the Liberals out or it's alot closer then the polls, media and everyone predicted.

NDP Plant? Umm. No. I'm not. Not associated or belong to any party. There are other choices in Tories and Greens, but honestly they aren't winning any seats. Greens always say come election time beit Provincial or Federal, how they're going to break through this time, win some seats and they ended up winning none. Granted, they actually did win a seat in the last Federal election. People like me are responsible for picking bad parties? Give your head a shake. How about people like you that have kept the Liberals in power for 12 years. I don't know who you support Federally, but the dumb people in this country made a huge mistake in giving Harper and Tories a majority. At least when they only had a minority, they couldn't get away with the crap they're doing now. They're selling the country off.


So, I want to know who you paid to see my vote at the election booth. Because whatever you paid for, you got ripped off badly. That wasn't even my vote. :picard:

But you know what? You and I finally agree on something. I voted NDP, FYI, in the federal election, despite knowing that they were going to lose anyway because I really did not like the moves that Harper were making (not necessarily against their party) and I did not want the Conservatives to have a majority.

People voted for Conservatives though and while I like a few things that Harper has done, for the most part, I don't like what he has done with the country so far.

I also don't like the fact that he's made Canada follow so tightly with the US that they were the few countries to vote against the Palestine being a non-member observer state in the UN. It's such a joke. :picard:
Why couldn't we refrain from voting like the UK/France? But instead, Canada had to suck up to Big Brother America.
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#46 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

You presume wrong. The story was of alot of interest to me, actually. Once again HEU is targeted. People using reason/excuse that HEU was too weak of a union, etc. Doesn't change the fact BCNU raided HEU. Plain and simple. There's an unwritten union code and one union raiding another is a no no. BCNU deserved to be blacklisted by the NDP, BC Fed of Labour and all the blacklash they get.


Nah...I'm pretty sure I had it right in the first place actually.
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#47 ronthecivil

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:25 AM

What the raid (which is what it really is) or as you want to call is (voting to move to another union) is all about greater power and influence


Really? I would take it as acknowledging that LPNs work in very much the same role and as such should be in the same union.

Seems kind of a backwards strategy to get someone to join you if your goal is to keep them down.....
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#48 ronthecivil

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:29 AM

It was the BC Liberals through Bill 29 that started this mess and pitting union against union. Gordo is laughing hard at his hand well played.

However to correct you - the evidence clearly indicates that it was the BC Liberals that trampled on rights such as freedom of association - Bill 29 settlement was 85 Million dollars.

So we know that the BC Liberals have trampled on those rights

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ealreached.html

Other than the NDP not cheering the raid what is your reliable source that this would occur under the NDP goverment? I mean we know that only right wing parties who also support "right to work" support raiding of unions ...So it should be no supprise that they don't support it - but if I am correct the unions being raided appealled the raid but never challenged the final vote - It's over folks - Lpn's have moved unions and it is a dead issue.


Oh I weep for the future when two groups that do the exact same job try to join into one common group that it's portrayed as "union vs. union".
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#49 ronthecivil

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:31 AM

You do realize that if NDP takes power and forms Goverment, they could do away with this Bill as payback for BCNU raiding HEU. As I said before, why do you think BCNU was getting all friendly with the Liberals to get this through before the election. They know and fear the NDP wouldn't do it. No doubt majority of BCNU members will vote Liberal for this little goody. I hope NDP if takes power, they remove Bill 18 and stick to the BCNU.


Sounds like a good direct question for Mr. Dix and if answered honestly an awesome soundbite to play.

Just to show a great example of a the kind of "practical positive changes" Mr. Dix really has up his sleeve. :sick: :sadno:
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#50 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:36 PM

Really? I would take it as acknowledging that LPNs work in very much the same role and as such should be in the same union.

Seems kind of a backwards strategy to get someone to join you if your goal is to keep them down.....

According to the posts by J529 that seems to be the precise sort of strategy that he favours and says the BC NDP will follow if elected.
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#51 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:38 PM

Oh I weep for the future when two groups that do the exact same job try to join into one common group that it's portrayed as "union vs. union".

In the union movement democracy is all well and good just as long as it the othordox "democracy" favoured by organized labour.
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#52 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:41 PM

It was the BC Liberals through Bill 29 that started this mess and pitting union against union. Gordo is laughing hard at his hand well played.

However to correct you - the evidence clearly indicates that it was the BC Liberals that trampled on rights such as freedom of association - Bill 29 settlement was 85 Million dollars.

So we know that the BC Liberals have trampled on those rights

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ealreached.html

Other than the NDP not cheering the raid what is your reliable source that this would occur under the NDP goverment? I mean we know that only right wing parties who also support "right to work" support raiding of unions ...So it should be no supprise that they don't support it - but if I am correct the unions being raided appealled the raid but never challenged the final vote - It's over folks - Lpn's have moved unions and it is a dead issue.

If you followed that case through the courts you would have noted that the government succeeded at the BC Supreme Court and BC Court of Appeal because the law was clear that the government was entitled to do what it did based on past case law from the SCOC.

The ultimate decision required the SCOC to overrule itself to reach that result. Pretty hard to criticize the government for complying with the existing law. But you appear to be doing so.
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#53 ronthecivil

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:25 PM

According to the posts by J529 that seems to be the precise sort of strategy that he favours and says the BC NDP will follow if elected.


Not that I am lover of putting in a charter based challenge on things but wouldn't this be a severe limitation of their rights of free association?

Mind you, even if they won the court case, and the NDP fought against them doing it, I would support all nurses going on wildcat strike until they backed down on their over the top 1930s style union strong arming where the union itself seems to matter more than the union members.
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#54 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:33 PM

Not that I am lover of putting in a charter based challenge on things but wouldn't this be a severe limitation of their rights of free association?

Mind you, even if they won the court case, and the NDP fought against them doing it, I would support all nurses going on wildcat strike until they backed down on their over the top 1930s style union strong arming where the union itself seems to matter more than the union members.

I already noted earlier in response to J529's claim that the BC NDP will just run roughshod over the vote that was conducted under the BC LRA that approach could run afoul of the courts. See post #43.
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