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AV getting a free pass


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#31 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:53 AM

AV has to take some of the blame along with gillis and the players, but i wouldn't let him go without letting him and the team work their way out of this slump....every year the team slumps and fans call for AV's head and then the team get it together....
imo....gillis should get another center that AV can count on and resolve the goalie situation...then if the team doesn't turn it around, then fire the coaches, trade the sedins, kesler and edler and fire gillis....the cdc answer......


It is not an all or nothing scenario though. Why does wanting to replace the coach men that someone is saying to blow up the whole team? Have you ever once seen me say that joe?

Does this team REALLY get it together though? Or do they get it together enough to get into the playoffs and then bow out unceremoniously?

The reason to call for change is because this team seems to hit the same ceiling every year. Something has to give. Doing the exact same thing and overlooking the weaknesses of this team just because they manage to win in a weak division is short sighted. Next year the division they are in gets much, much tougher.......
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#32 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:56 AM

(1) Every season is full of ups and downs.

(2) We're missing 2 of our best players (Bieksa and Kesler).

(3) MG has yet to resolve the goalie situation.

These are all factors that affect the team hugely, and none of them are within AV's control. He's got his problems (powerplay, line juggling, Garrison), of course. Consider how crap this team has looked recently, though, and we're still tied for 1st in our division.

Let's try to resist the urge to trade all the players, fire all the staff, demolish the arena, and slit our wrists.


1) Other than the goalies, the team hasn't had any "ups" this year, only downs. THey have played poor, uninspired hockey all year except for 2 games.
2) Ottawas is missing 3 of their best players including their starting goalie and a Norris D man. They have chosen to dig deep and up their compete level to compensate. The Nucks have crawled into a hoel of self-pity adn are playing like whipped dogs.
3) MG has mis-handled the goalie situation to where he will be lucky to mive either for any decent return. HE gambled that other teams woudl get desparate with poor play and make a trade. INstead it is the Nucks that have the most defficiencies and are looking desparate. Not a position of strength for MG.

We are 6th in the west with a total of 11 wins in 24 games. But hey, let's all talk about how good they were 2 years ago and how MG's acquisitions since then have filled the holes. Nothing to worry about.
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#33 gaydar

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:23 AM

AV is one of the biggest jokes in league history not to mention that stud Bowness and his head coaching record, but Gillis has to be to blame even more because he's run this team into the ground. Burke/Nonis handed this organization a cup, if Gillis had any level of competency we'd have the only banner that matters hanging in the rafters by now.
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#34 MikeyBoy44

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:24 AM

Is it just me or is it every time a topic starts along the lines of "hear me out" there really isn't anything worth "hearing"?
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#35 1970 and beyond

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:38 AM

I think if the owners are happy with what they are seeing on the ice nothing is going to happen. If the GM gets canned I don't think the coach will be far behind once a new GM is in place.

Something needs to change and like it or not the coach is usually the easiest thing to change.
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#36 gaydar

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:42 AM

I think if the owners are happy with what they are seeing on the ice nothing is going to happen. If the GM gets canned I don't think the coach will be far behind once a new GM is in place.

Something needs to change and like it or not the coach is usually the easiest thing to change.


How on earth could Aquilini be happy with what he's seeing on the ice?
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#37 1970 and beyond

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:44 AM

How on earth could Aquilini be happy with what he's seeing on the ice?


Maybe he is just happy filling the seats.
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Been a fan from day one. Some of those days were good and some were bad.

#38 canucksordie

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:54 AM

Fire AV
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#39 Bodee

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:59 AM

I think AV has been given more of a chance then he would have on another team but I wouldn't call it a free pass. In years past I have thought that he mad changes and learns from his mistakes but this year it looks like he has taken a few steps back. May be time for a change.


Seriously? .................Game 7 and two PT's in the last 2 years..........that is certainly firing material. And all the time Gillis has given him nothing while all the other teams are feverishly getting better.

@wallstreetamigo.
"It is not an all or nothing scenario though. Why does wanting to replace the coach men that someone is saying to blow up the whole team? Have you ever once seen me say that joe?"

Well if AV gets fired I can bet you a billion bucks that MG is forced to upgrade. And to do that players will have to go................So why not do the same for a coach that has given you a Game 7 and 2 PT's in the last 2 years.
To do it any other way just doesn't make sense.

Edited by Bodee, 12 March 2013 - 12:04 PM.

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#40 TimberWolf

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:59 AM

Maybe he is just happy filling the seats.

You'd think that if he were any faceless rich man, I suppose. But our owner is a fan and wants to win. He also knows that winning puts butts in those seats.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#41 kassian 09

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

I didn't want this to become a war of sides ahah, but my main problem is that. Kassian scored 5 goals when the twins played BAD. And he cleared paths for them with his body, how good could he be with them playing this good? Why break up Raymond Shredder and Hansen? WHy doesnt Higgy center Booth and Burr? And why cant Lappy stay on the 4h with Wise and mr fists?

Sedins-Kass
Hansen-Shredder-Raymond
Burr-Higgy-Booth
Wise-Patti-St

And wtf is up with our D pairings? Why arent Ballard and Garrison regulars on the PP. Edler stays behind the net and makes bad plays when he doesnt move his feet. No tactics AT ALL!! And now KNOWING AV hes guna but Barker on the PP, probably sit Ballard. Da faq?

Why not have:
Hammy-Tanev
Garrison-Ballard
Edler-Barker

Alberts, I.R - Bieksa

frack its like COMMON SENSE!!! imo....people dont have to agree.
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#42 Guest_Pinchin_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

All the above is rubbish............other than I do agree he tends to juggle too much.

We have been badly hit by injuries to key players, others have lost form. However the main reason we are struggling imo is the lack of scoring below the 1st line.

That is NOT AV's fault that is GMMG's fault. I will be very annoyed if Gillis spins this down to being AV's fault and fires him.


Really?? There would be no spin. I guess you hate young talent as well, still holding onto the dream that you could make the NHL and be an AV favourite? All you need to be is an aging plug for that, so keep the dream alive.
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#43 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:05 PM

You have the right to your opinion as I said. That also doesn't make it fact though as you can't have that argument both ways I'm afraid... ;)


I don't know what you mean by "both ways".
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#44 kassian 09

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

I don't know what you mean by "both ways".


i think its about porn, and double penetration
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#45 Bodee

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

Really?? There would be no spin. I guess you hate young talent as well, still holding onto the dream that you could make the NHL and be an AV favourite? All you need to be is an aging plug for that, so keep the dream alive.


Gillis has given AV every "ageing plug" he's had.

How do you know Gillis didn't want JS sent down ............he certainly implied that it was he who put Volpatti down.
Anyway I am not saying and have never said AV is blameless. I hate his tinkering with the lines BUT because of Gillis given a few injuries he has damn little to tinker with.
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#46 Guest_Pinchin_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

I don't really think Vinny is getting a free pass, behind closed doors I doubt MG is all that forgiving. I'd be happier if we wait until next season but if MG wants to pull the trigger now, I have no objections. IMO Vinny has lost the room, I suspect there are more than a few players that would jump for joy at the news. That all being said, Vinny is a great coach, even the best get fired, but I think his time here is done.
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#47 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

The last time AV came close to being fired, it was the promotion of Burrows that saved him.

So who's going to save him this time?
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#48 Tearloch7

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:14 PM

I didn't want this to become a war of sides ahah, but my main problem is that. Kassian scored 5 goals when the twins played BAD. And he cleared paths for them with his body, how good could he be with them playing this good? Why break up Raymond Shredder and Hansen? WHy doesnt Higgy center Booth and Burr? And why cant Lappy stay on the 4h with Wise and mr fists?

Sedins-Kass
Hansen-Shredder-Raymond
Burr-Higgy-Booth
Wise-Patti-St

And wtf is up with our D pairings? Why arent Ballard and Garrison regulars on the PP. Edler stays behind the net and makes bad plays when he doesnt move his feet. No tactics AT ALL!! And now KNOWING AV hes guna but Barker on the PP, probably sit Ballard. Da faq?

Why not have:
Hammy-Tanev
Garrison-Ballard
Edler-Barker

Alberts, I.R - Bieksa

frack its like COMMON SENSE!!! imo....people dont have to agree.


Astutely put! .. unfortunately, too many folks here like to put their fingers in their ears and run around yelling rather than face the reality that AV and his staff have lost the room .. and heaven forbid ones opinion should differ 180 degrees from theirs .. they may brand you an idiot, or even better, a "retard" .. it is all so common .. :ph34r:
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#49 L'Orange

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

AV is coaching like an assclown. Favoritism and head scratching, counter-intuitive coaching decisions.

Look at Ottawa.......Spezza, Michalek, Anderson, Karlsson.........all injured. Yet they keep on winning and are competitive. You know why? Because their coach gets the most out of ALL the guys who are left standing.

AV and the Canucks use injuries to a top 4 D (who is not really playing well this season anyway) and a 2nd line center (who is selfish and played like crap when he was in the lineup) as an excuse for this level of mediocrity?

Come on.

The only line producing other than the Sedins will now have Ebbett as its center tonight.........that is all you need to know about who is responsible for this team's slide into the abyss.


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#50 Bananas

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

Ebbett second line? Ballard out?

Has he forgotten Burrows could play center? Put Kassian with the Sedins?

This guy is becoming more and more of a joke every single day.
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#51 longsuffering

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

There are too many other issues with the team that they like to focus on. Diving, whining, goaltending (lol), lack of toughness, finger biting, calling refs out, etc.

This team is becoming a circus.


But that IS a coaching issue!
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#52 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Seriously? .................Game 7 and two PT's in the last 2 years..........that is certainly firing material. And all the time Gillis has given him nothing while all the other teams are feverishly getting better.

@wallstreetamigo.
"It is not an all or nothing scenario though. Why does wanting to replace the coach men that someone is saying to blow up the whole team? Have you ever once seen me say that joe?"

Well if AV gets fired I can bet you a billion bucks that MG is forced to upgrade. And to do that players will have to go................So why not do the same for a coach that has given you a Game 7 and 2 PT's in the last 2 years.
To do it any other way just doesn't make sense.


Honestly, AV supporters are never going to be convinced there is any scenario under which he should ever be held accountable for his failures.

At the end of the day, Gillis has brought in some good players that have been ;largely mismanaged by AV because they are not "his guys". That is never going to change with AV as the coach. So should Gillis start acquiring more and more pluggers to make AV happy and get him guys he is willing to give a fair chance to? Or should we get a coach who can maybe get more out of the guys that are already here?

The country club locker room environment and effort on the ice is a direct result of AV's coaching.......he plays favorites and is too stubborn to ever admit he might have been wrong.
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#53 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

The last time AV came close to being fired, it was the promotion of Burrows that saved him.

So who's going to save him this time?


Wasn't it SuperRome that saved him last time?

It will be Barker this time as the PP has to FINALLY score and Barker will be involved........
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#54 fagin

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

Hear me out,

So i've never been a fan of AV's line juggling and mismanagement of our D, and I'm sure we all agree he should be fired. But what about the media? I'm hearing nothing on Spoetsnet,TSN or anything online about why AV should be fired. If it was any other canadian market with our skill level, or even without the skill, the media would be all over a possible coaches change.

What do you guys think? Too early or are we just wrong?

Sry if already posted found nothing.

........You must have missed the 9.00pm sportsnet news last night.Dan Murphy asked the question about the Canucks poor play.
He announced they were having a Poll with the results at the end of the show.
They gave 3 choices and 1 of them was coaching.
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#55 TheCammer

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

I didn't want this to become a war of sides ahah, but my main problem is that. Kassian scored 5 goals when the twins played BAD. And he cleared paths for them with his body, how good could he be with them playing this good? Why break up Raymond Shredder and Hansen? WHy doesnt Higgy center Booth and Burr? And why cant Lappy stay on the 4h with Wise and mr fists?

Sedins-Kass
Hansen-Shredder-Raymond
Burr-Higgy-Booth
Wise-Patti-St

And wtf is up with our D pairings? Why arent Ballard and Garrison regulars on the PP. Edler stays behind the net and makes bad plays when he doesnt move his feet. No tactics AT ALL!! And now KNOWING AV hes guna but Barker on the PP, probably sit Ballard. Da faq?

Why not have:
Hammy-Tanev
Garrison-Ballard
Edler-Barker

Alberts, I.R - Bieksa

frack its like COMMON SENSE!!! imo....people dont have to agree.

Common sense???? Right.

Kassian was moved off the Sedin line for a couple of reasons. First, Kassian was scoring but the Sedins weren't exactly as dangerous as we need them to be so the smart decision is to put them in a line where they already have more of a comfort level built up. Kass also has a penchant for the odd giveaway so AV moved him down the lineup a bit. Smart decison as the Sedins' game showed marked improvement. Kassian has seen a few shifts with the Sedins since being moved off as well.

Raymond , Schroeder and Hansen was an interesting speed line and not horrific defensively but they didn't exactly continue to produce, Schroeder, not at all.

Sorry AV's line juggling is very standard fair in the NHL or any decent level of hockey. You make line decisions based on things that happen during the game, who's playing well, who's struggling. If you don't then you should have your ass canned as a coach. As a staff they are also trying their best to mask the C ice deficiency and the injury to Bieksa.

D pairing is the same thing as line changes. Ballard on the PP. He has barely contributed offensively, isn't a gret puck mover or PP QB and doesn't have a huge shot. And for those that say he was playing better this year I beleive that is accurate. However was is the key word. Watch some video, there are the more glaring turnovers but most noticeable is Ballard's penchant to chase his check rather than cover an area which causes your teammates to be out of position which has led to goals.

I will agree that Edler has been awful and I would love to see them watch a game form the press box. However when he plays well he can really make a difference. My guess is they are hoping he plays himself out of this current funk.

As far as Barker on the Powerplay, why not? He used to be on the Chicago Power play and was very successful. Yes, it's been a few years and he hasn't been great in stops in Minnesota and Edmonton but so far with us he has shown himself capable of moving the puck and getting shots through to the net.

Just to finish up, who says AV isn't getting some heat? You don't know what is happening behind closed doors. And I'm not sure what media you have been watching but I've seen lots of discussion or stories around the Canucks woes and AV.

I think his successful history should allow a little more leeway when the team performs poorly to try and turn things around. With that said I do agree that if we miss the playoffs or have a poor Playoff performance it maybe time to shake things up but he doesn't deserve toi be canned at the first sign of trouble.

Most of the comments I see from people about AV and his coaching just tells me how many people on CDC have little or no knowledge about hockey or have spent any decent amount of time coaching elite levels of hockey.
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#56 MJDDawg

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

All the above is rubbish............other than I do agree he tends to juggle too much.

We have been badly hit by injuries to key players, others have lost form. However the main reason we are struggling imo is the lack of scoring below the 1st line.

That is NOT AV's fault that is GMMG's fault. I will be very annoyed if Gillis spins this down to being AV's fault and fires him.


One could use the injury issues as an excuse, but then again the Ottawa Senator's lost their number one centre, their number one Norris Trophy winning defenceman, and their number one goalie. Their record in that time is 6 - 2 - 3.

MG has to have his feet held to the fire here for the lack of depth both here and in the prospect pipeline. Not that I'm against a coaching change, but that's the easy way out at this point. What the heck is AV supposed to do with no legitimate NHL centre depth after Hank and Kes.
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#57 TheCammer

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

Honestly, AV supporters are never going to be convinced there is any scenario under which he should ever be held accountable for his failures.

At the end of the day, Gillis has brought in some good players that have been ;largely mismanaged by AV because they are not "his guys". That is never going to change with AV as the coach. So should Gillis start acquiring more and more pluggers to make AV happy and get him guys he is willing to give a fair chance to? Or should we get a coach who can maybe get more out of the guys that are already here?

The country club locker room environment and effort on the ice is a direct result of AV's coaching.......he plays favorites and is too stubborn to ever admit he might have been wrong.

Not true. Despite the fact I support him I think a failure to make the playoffs this year or perform well (at least win 1 round in the playoffs)should likely result in a change in my opinion. Some others feel the same way.

However, some of his detractors for the most part make comments that show a complete lack of hockey acumen or experience in coaching. PLEASE NOTE that I said some. Not all. Too many absolutes on the CDC.

I still support AV. Newell Brown, not so much.
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#58 TheCammer

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:33 PM

One could use the injury issues as an excuse, but then again the Ottawa Senator's lost their number one centre, their number one Norris Trophy winning defenceman, and their number one goalie. Their record in that time is 6 - 2 - 3.

MG has to have his feet held to the fire here for the lack of depth both here and in the prospect pipeline. Not that I'm against a coaching change, but that's the easy way out at this point. What the heck is AV supposed to do with no legitimate NHL centre depth after Hank and Kes.

Is that necessarily a function of coaching?? Depth and personnel also are huge determining factors (as is coaching).

I am as frustrated by the Canucks recent play as the others but firing a coach mid-season has not been successful more times than it has been successful (Bylsma and Sutter in Pittsburgh and LA as notable exceptions). I am also frustrated by the poor starts we seem to have a penchant for. However, I beleive that is on the players as much as the coaching staff.

Regardless of how poorly we do this year AV deserves the respect of finishing the year based on his successful history as coach.
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#59 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

I don't really think Vinny is getting a free pass, behind closed doors I doubt MG is all that forgiving. I'd be happier if we wait until next season but if MG wants to pull the trigger now, I have no objections. IMO Vinny has lost the room, I suspect there are more than a few players that would jump for joy at the news. That all being said, Vinny is a great coach, even the best get fired, but I think his time here is done.



It's funny, but when one voice registers an opinion, sixteen more jump aboard to also state it, without even the IMO preceding it. I never heard this opinion before today.

If, and when, Vigneault loses the room, it's Gillis' responsibility to immediately recognize it, and secondly, to immediately fire Vigneault.

No one here, not I certainly, knows if Vigneault has lost the room. It's ludicrous to suggest you know something, or even strongly suspect something, that even the media can only speculate about (and wouldn't THEY love to scoop that story).
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#60 Vansicle

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

Why did vigneault break up Raymond Schroeder Hansen ?
Only chemistry I've seen this year outside of Kassian scoring goals with the twins.
I think both gillis and vigneault share blame.
Gillis needs to make 2-3 changes and not another round of gragnani and pahllsson

Because he is overly confident that he is right.
As I see it, AV's main drawback is admitting something doesn't/didn't work. Going back to the same well time and again just because it worked once before.
And I agree. Both AV and MG share the blame.
But as wallstreet points out, they'll win again at some point and we'll be called bandwagon, spoiled fans. Meanwhile, the same problems will not have magically disappeard. I suppose it's hard for some to admit that the problems that have been bubbling under the surface for so long are finally impossible to ignore. No longer can they be covered up by an "all's well that ends well" philosophy.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 





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