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AV getting a free pass


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#91 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:53 AM

Ok since you know so much who are you going to replace them with?


Are you suggesting there is no one in the hockey world qualified to replace them?

You should work in Canucks management. They deal in complacency too so you would fit right in.... ;)

Seriously, there are many people who could replace Gillis and AV.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 14 March 2013 - 08:55 AM.

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#92 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:10 AM

The reason AV needs to go is not about a handful of games or a specific loss to this team or that. It is about a habitual and consistent inconsistency with this team.

Anyone who watches other teams on a regular basis will know exactly what I am talking about.



I watch other teams on a regular basis and I don't know what you're talking about...

If you look at the current NHL standings, you'll see a plethora of 1-2 game streaks. Inconsistency is the norm.

The only teams playing consistently right now are Pittsburgh, Anaheim and Montreal. Even the mighty Hawks have lost 2 straight.
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#93 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:25 AM

I watch other teams on a regular basis and I don't know what you're talking about...

If you look at the current NHL standings, you'll see a plethora of 1-2 game streaks. Inconsistency is the norm.

The only teams playing consistently right now are Pittsburgh, Anaheim and Montreal. Even the mighty Hawks have lost 2 straight.


That would be because you apparently only focus on the result (ie....the win or loss). I focus on how teams play for the 60 minutes regardless of the outcome that has too many variables attached to it to be conclusive in and of itself.

Of the teams I have watched enough to make an educated comment on (which I would say is about 15 teams in the NHL at this point), there are none who I would say are playing with less heart, hard work, and commitment than the Canucks are right now. And that is not an exaggeration unfortunately.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 14 March 2013 - 10:28 AM.

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#94 ice orca

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:27 AM

Are you suggesting there is no one in the hockey world qualified to replace them?

You should work in Canucks management. They deal in complacency too so you would fit right in.... ;)

Seriously, there are many people who could replace Gillis and AV.

Ok bud give me your replacements instead of beating around the bush instead of flattening your ass out on the high horse.
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#95 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:39 AM

Ok bud give me your replacements instead of beating around the bush instead of flattening your ass out on the high horse.


Any number of coaches would be reasonable replacements for AV. The most obvious would be Lindy Ruff, Brent Sutter, Dallas Eakins, but there are any number of coaches who would be better than AV and his message at this point.

As for GM's, anyone who is willing to actually make a trade would be better than Gillis who stubbornly hoards players and lets a coach destroy any trade value they have........

I would probably take Burke over MG if this continues.....and boy is that saying something because I HATE Burke as a GM. Since the Hodgson trade, Gillis seems afraid to make a trade and possibly get fleeced again.

Okay, maybe I wouldn't take Burke.....lol. But you get my point.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 14 March 2013 - 10:42 AM.

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#96 WiseOne

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

In my opinion it is too short a season to make major changes like the coaching or GM. In a shorter season winning and losing streaks have a much bigger impact, and yet they may not accurately define how the team is doing or where the team is at. If the Canucks by some chance fail to make the playoffs, or if they can't make it past the first post-season round, then I would agree that major changes should be looked at.
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#97 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:52 AM

That would be because you apparently only focus on the result (ie....the win or loss). I focus on how teams play for the 60 minutes regardless of the outcome that has too many variables attached to it to be conclusive in and of itself.

Of the teams I have watched enough to make an educated comment on (which I would say is about 15 teams in the NHL at this point), there are none who I would say are playing with less heart, hard work, and commitment than the Canucks are right now. And that is not an exaggeration unfortunately.


I watch as much as I can and as usual, we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

The Canucks are consistently outshooting their opponents, even through the losing streak. That tells me that the effort is there. The only really poor effort recently was the Minnesota game.

Of course, those figures don't agree with your "unexaggerated" opinion, so I suppose we'll have to leave it at that.
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#98 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:55 AM

I watch as much as I can and as usual, we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

The Canucks are consistently outshooting their opponents, even through the losing streak. That tells me that the effort is there. The only really poor effort recently was the Minnesota game.

Of course, those figures don't agree with your "unexaggerated" opinion, so I suppose we'll have to leave it at that.


Check out the scoring chance stats rather than just shooting. Hitting the goalies crest with a perimeter shot still counts as a shot but really does nothing to generate a scoring chance. Even more importantly, you still have to bury those scoring chances which other teams seem much more effective at doing thatn the Canucks right now.

The real issue is that the Canucks do not even look like they are on the same page on the ice anymore. Whether on offense or defence they have no cohesion as a five man unit. On the PP too it seems like they are not all on the same page about who should be doing what.

Other teams I watch have much less talent but work a lot harder and the strategy on the ice is much easier to identify based on all players looking like they are following it.

It blows me away that people blindly like AV so much that they are willing to suggest with a straight face that this team is working hard and playing well.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 14 March 2013 - 11:01 AM.

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#99 ice orca

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

Any number of coaches would be reasonable replacements for AV. The most obvious would be Lindy Ruff, Brent Sutter, Dallas Eakins, but there are any number of coaches who would be better than AV and his message at this point.

As for GM's, anyone who is willing to actually make a trade would be better than Gillis who stubbornly hoards players and lets a coach destroy any trade value they have........

I would probably take Burke over MG if this continues.....and boy is that saying something because I HATE Burke as a GM. Since the Hodgson trade, Gillis seems afraid to make a trade and possibly get fleeced again.

Okay, maybe I wouldn't take Burke.....lol. But you get my point.

I like Sutter and would think he would be a good fit here, at least he can relate to younger players. No to Burke he had his shot here, i would take Gillman as he seems to be well respected around the league as well as a genius with the cap.
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#100 VanIsleNuckFan

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:25 AM

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Well....someone did at one point, that's for sure... First of all, Ive never seen a rat carrying money, or with the ability to negotiate, so someone, at some point had to have given that rat an ass...











Edit: Actually, never mind there's one rat that I've seen that does have the ability to negotiate, I watched him argue with the NHLPA for half the damn year...

Edited by VanIsleNuckFan, 14 March 2013 - 11:28 AM.

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#101 Kryten

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:31 AM

You continually want to turn every argument into one involving your favourite Canuck.

I've never said Ballard has never played a good game. You're confusing me with someone else. At the least, you're putting words in my mouth. I think he had a decent start to the season, but when Ballard's play goes south, it goes to Antarctica, not Seattle.

As for Edler, when Edler poops the bed, he gets more leeway because of his track record here. Also, because we'll need an energized, consistent-minute Edler to do anything here long-term. Also, because Edler is the more talented Dman, and you automatically keep playing him so he can play out of his current funk.

Again, to stay with our original argument, this isn't about what you or I think about Ballard, or whoever else. It's about the speculation as to whether or not Gillis agrees or differs with AV's assessments and decision-making. And the only point I'm making is that none of us, certainly not you or I, know the answer to that.


Edler's poor play affects the team to a greater degree than Ballard because he not only gets more meaningful minutes (PP and PK), he gets more of them. The only funk Edler is currently in is his inability to score the odd goal and second assist that has ALWAYS masked his poor play in his own zone. Edler has and always will be a liability to the team defensively. It has killed us before this season but his offensive abilities have always gotten him a pass.

As far as Gillis and AV being on the same page; Gillis calls this team a puck possession team but AV has it playing like a transition team. This is a topic I started last year. I could repost it again this year because AV is using the exact same system as last year. This is basically the reason why I am done defending him (note the poll results). http://forum.canucks...6#entry10658966

Any number of coaches would be reasonable replacements for AV. The most obvious would be Lindy Ruff, Brent Sutter, Dallas Eakins, but there are any number of coaches who would be better than AV and his message at this point.

As for GM's, anyone who is willing to actually make a trade would be better than Gillis who stubbornly hoards players and lets a coach destroy any trade value they have........

I would probably take Burke over MG if this continues.....and boy is that saying something because I HATE Burke as a GM. Since the Hodgson trade, Gillis seems afraid to make a trade and possibly get fleeced again.

Okay, maybe I wouldn't take Burke.....lol. But you get my point.


Don't forget about Cooper, dude's going to be a good one.
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#102 lolwut?

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:36 AM

Check out the scoring chance stats rather than just shooting. Hitting the goalies crest with a perimeter shot still counts as a shot but really does nothing to generate a scoring chance. Even more importantly, you still have to bury those scoring chances which other teams seem much more effective at doing thatn the Canucks right now.

The real issue is that the Canucks do not even look like they are on the same page on the ice anymore. Whether on offense or defence they have no cohesion as a five man unit. On the PP too it seems like they are not all on the same page about who should be doing what.

Other teams I watch have much less talent but work a lot harder and the strategy on the ice is much easier to identify based on all players looking like they are following it.

It blows me away that people blindly like AV so much that they are willing to suggest with a straight face that this team is working hard and playing well.


Wallstreet its honestly rare that I would agree with practically everything someone would say about this team right now but reading your posts makes all kinds of sense and I cant help but agree, mostly because you express your thoughts clearly and I can tell that it comes from a logical thought process as well as an investigative eye by looking past the stats that people seem to put so much weight into.

I titally know what you mean.. watching other teams on their pp and pk, watching their techniques and strategy 5v5, seeing their abilities in the shootouts, it really does make the canucks look like they are all out of alignment..it seems like since they have changed so mucb in terms of the roster, bringing in garrison after losing salo, losing hodgson and bringing in kassian, these changes really appear to have hurt the team identity.

This team used to be about speed and skill over muscle and strength, but now it just seems like a mess of both.. we have players now that are fast and skilled but appear to not be finishers (booth, raymond) and tougher players that dont help to provide anything at all really in the way of offense (kassian, lapierre, weise). Even kesler has not been a real scoring threat for a while now.. if the sedins are shut down in a game atm the likelyhood that we will outscore our opponant and not be forced to rely solely on the defence and goaltenders is slim to none..

Im not even sure what type of game the canucks are playing right now.. is it offense until we're up two goals and then hang back and buckle down to preserve the lead? It sure seems like it to me.. yet the way the players are playing it would appear to me they are not able to make the system work for them and I feel like that comes back to AV not adjusting to the strengths that the team does have

I really hope they can turn it around because watching the canucks right now is like hearing about amanda bynes or lindsay lohan.. a trainwreck but you cant help but stay invested..
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#103 Kryten

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:40 AM

Check out the scoring chance stats rather than just shooting. Hitting the goalies crest with a perimeter shot still counts as a shot but really does nothing to generate a scoring chance. Even more importantly, you still have to bury those scoring chances which other teams seem much more effective at doing thatn the Canucks right now.

The real issue is that the Canucks do not even look like they are on the same page on the ice anymore. Whether on offense or defence they have no cohesion as a five man unit. On the PP too it seems like they are not all on the same page about who should be doing what.

Other teams I watch have much less talent but work a lot harder and the strategy on the ice is much easier to identify based on all players looking like they are following it.

It blows me away that people blindly like AV so much that they are willing to suggest with a straight face that this team is working hard and playing well.


I agree with all of this. It is what kills us in the playoffs and is now killing our regular season. The guys need to get better scoring chances by not being afraid to get their noses dirty.
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#104 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:01 PM

Check out the scoring chance stats rather than just shooting. Hitting the goalies crest with a perimeter shot still counts as a shot but really does nothing to generate a scoring chance. Even more importantly, you still have to bury those scoring chances which other teams seem much more effective at doing thatn the Canucks right now.

The real issue is that the Canucks do not even look like they are on the same page on the ice anymore. Whether on offense or defence they have no cohesion as a five man unit. On the PP too it seems like they are not all on the same page about who should be doing what.

Other teams I watch have much less talent but work a lot harder and the strategy on the ice is much easier to identify based on all players looking like they are following it.

It blows me away that people blindly like AV so much that they are willing to suggest with a straight face that this team is working hard and playing well.


And it blows me away that people are so convinced that their opinion is so bang on that they're willing to ignore stats, unless of course the stats support their opinion.

I remember when it "blew you away" that I was supporting Bieksa as well...
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