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[Report] Canucks Aggressively Pursuing Trade (Interested in Steve Ott & Derek Roy)


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#91 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:44 AM

Fair enough.

I think you are overrating Schroeder's value.

He has some, as opposed to Rodin, but he's still a B grade prospect until further notice.


His value is about where Cody Hodgsons was in 10/11, or where Cody Eakin's was last year maybe. Next season his value will rise more, and he will be a top 9 contributor, and Derek Roy will be on another team. Likely without a cup cause I don't think he is the player that is going to up us over the top.

His value is better than most think, people here are just so used to throwing him in trade proposals and calling him a bust that it has resinated yet with alot of people that he actually has gotten better and has developed and this is the stage in his career where he is just about to have a spike in development if things go right now that he is able to play at this level.
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#92 Apples

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:47 AM

Much prefer to get Ott over Roy. Roy is too small and doesnt add any physical element to the team
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#93 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:49 AM

The market value for players really hasn't proven to be great so far this year.

What would you guys have expected Simon Gagne to go for? I bet more than a 4th. Same goes with Keaton Ellerby and Andrei Loktionov, both who went for the measly price of a 5th rounder.

And Alexei Ponikarovsky, I was kinda surprised all the Jets got in return was a 4th and a 7th.

Derek Roy is a player demanding big money, there isn't a way we will be able to keep him around past this year. So what are we going to give up for 12 games for Derek Roy. And whatever we go on in the playoffs?

Is that worth Jordan Schroeder and a 2nd round pick which will also be a good prospect? I don't think so.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 15 March 2013 - 02:49 AM.

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#94 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:50 AM

Ott is exactly what this team wants. Buffalo is STACKED at center and quite honestly don't have room for all these new young centers. Ennis, Grigorenko and Hodgson are all potential top-6 centers, and they also have Hecht in there for the 4th line.

What they desperately need is a new goalie (Miller's been brutal) or a new veteran defenceman (Reger has been pretty average too).

I'd do Ballard and a 3rd rounder for Ott. If Buffalo are sellers then we might even be able to get him for a 2nd round pick straight up and not lose a player. Of course a bigger package is possible, involving Schneider (they're a young team they need a young goalie to build around) and maybe some of their veterans.

We've got a rapport with Buffalo after the Kassian trade, I'd love to keep going back to this well as opposed to Florida. Buffalo have some really underated, nice players there.
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#95 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:53 AM

Buffalo should be sellers after this horrible season.
Gagne was had for a 4th round pick.
Gaustad was taken for a 1st rounder.

There really are no rules with picks-for-players, but Ott would be worth a 2nd rounder. Throw ours away straight up for Ott, let Buffalo build around their young core of Hodgson, Ennis, Grigorenko and Myers with their picks and let us go for the Cup this season.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Raymond - Kesler - Hansen
Higgins - Ott - Booth
Kassian - Lapierre - Pinizotto
Weise
Ebbett

Fantastic depth, we now have 5 NHL centers in our lineup and 4 deadly lines.
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#96 Lancaster

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:31 AM

The Canucks don't need a "checking" centre for the 3rd line as defense has never been an issue, it's offense.

They either need a 2-way centre like a RJ Umberger who can interchange with Kesler or can be used to load up a top-6 corp.... if not, some Norris caliber defenseman (very unlikely).
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#97 canuckleface77

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:15 AM

Well atleast we know Gillis is trying to get a 3rd line Center. Don't know why he always waits until the trade deadline to get one when we haven't had one all year


Have you ever had to negotiate ANYTHING in your life?

Just how easy do you think it is to trade for quality centre's?
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#98 Gooseberries

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:36 AM

Have you ever had to negotiate ANYTHING in your life?

Just how easy do you think it is to trade for quality centre's?

I give nhl gms props. I had a difficult enough time negotiating my way out of my sweater last night.
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#99 Bill F-ing Murray

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:59 AM

Imagine Burrows, Ott, Lapierre on the same line. The most hated line in the league? :P


add lappy on there and you got it... or even pp add burr, ott, lappy , kesler, bieksa.... I think that would piss everyone off... able to score and get under your skin
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#100 tas

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:21 AM

We don't have a 3rd line center

we have two 1st line centers, a 4th line center and depth players.

Thats what we need.

And moving Kesler two wing would be dumb, he is elite defensively and we need what he brings defensively down the middle since center is a much more defensive position than Wing.



How is it questionable?

And I am pretty sure Mason Raymond is playing like a top 6 forward this season. And Burrows would be a 2nd liner without the twins aswell.

What we need is a 3rd line center than can bring a really good defensively game & is good on draws, offense would be great too but not top priority IMO. someone like Bozak would be perfect, or Goc would also be very nice.

Also, like those teams we have 4 good offensive players. But unlike those teams, we don't have a good two-way 3rd line center (Bolland, Peverly, Sutter, Koivu)


haha, theres MAYBE five teams in the league where kesler would be a first line center, and theyre all competing for lottery picks.

frankly, the canucks have the best (and most expensive) third line center in the league. what they need is a second line center that actually makes the line work.
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#101 missioncanucksfan

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:44 AM

As for the whole Derek Roy suggestion, that is all Blob MacKenzie. So sick of that guy always trying to drum-up/create rumours. Would give my left nut to see that guy try actually be a GM of a hockey team. The other guy I get sick of is Kypreos. Guys is such a plug homer for Toronto and Rangers. Literally every rumour of any player.... " Oh, he is headed east to a team like Toronto or new York...." . I cringe whenever i see a player laying on the ice in bad condition, but Kypreos' day is blown up and on my wall with about 6 darts in it.

Edited by missioncanucksfan, 15 March 2013 - 06:45 AM.

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#102 tas

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:47 AM

Exactly.

I would be fine with sucking the next 5 years as long as I could rest on the fact that management did everything they could to make this team a winner.

I know there's no guarantees, but if we add at least one more impact player, we give ourselves a much better chance. And that's all you need in the playoffs is a chance.


haha, bullsh*t. if gillis offloaded good prospects and early round picks and the canucks go out before the finals, you'd be ALL OVER HIM as soon as the offseason rolls around, let alone after 3-5 years of missing the playoffs.
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#103 Bodee

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:46 AM

Yes to Ott..........big NO to Roy (no more lilliputians)
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#104 CB007

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:05 AM

Roy can put the puck in the net (or at least he can help his line mates putting the puck in the net) . He was borderline 1st line centre when he was younger, though the big contract he signed along with a couple of serious injuries changed him. He is second on his team in assists with 12, that's good for 3rd on our team. Leads the Stars with +6 and 3rd among forwards with ice time at 19:18 ATOI. So really he is 2nd line material. With him on our team, I have no reservation at all putting Kesler on 3C. With the Hank Kes and Roy playing 19 mins per game meaning we only have to play our 4th for 3 minutes (we can use them more if we want of course) and can surely expect positive +'s (or positive Corsi though I haven't checked advance stats) over the long run.

Ott is perfect 3rd liner, but I like Roy's offensive potential, and doesn't look like Buffalo wants to part ways with Ott. If anything happen to Kesler again, with Roy, it's not the end of the world.

With Kesler's injuries we have enough cap room for Roy at the deadline I believe (though I'm not an expert with cap info).

Edited by CB007, 15 March 2013 - 08:07 AM.

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#105 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:58 AM

The Canucks don't need a "checking" centre for the 3rd line as defense has never been an issue, it's offense.

It would be nice if the center could do both.
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#106 Boudrias

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:25 AM

I think I'd rather have Vermette for the extra 750k. Vermette may not hit as much as Ott, but he's as good or better in the faceoff circle, has more upside imo, doesn't stir as much shat, and is a hardworking two way kind of player who I think would be a good fit to play with Higgins and Hansen. Ott's underlying numbers are pretty unimpressive, and something about the guy just screams warning signs to me. Haven't really caught the Ott bug.

Perhaps we have seen Ott on the edge one to mnay times to have a comfort level. I like the Vermette idea because of his FO ability. The team is getting desperate in that area.

Ott's physicality would not be needed if Kassian were able to play top 9 minutes.
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#107 Spyderr

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:26 AM

ott is money absolutely what we need
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#108 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:39 AM

Buffalo should be sellers after this horrible season.
Gagne was had for a 4th round pick.
Gaustad was taken for a 1st rounder.

There really are no rules with picks-for-players, but Ott would be worth a 2nd rounder. Throw ours away straight up for Ott, let Buffalo build around their young core of Hodgson, Ennis, Grigorenko and Myers with their picks and let us go for the Cup this season.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Raymond - Kesler - Hansen
Higgins - Ott - Booth
Kassian - Lapierre - Pinizotto
Weise
Ebbett

Fantastic depth, we now have 5 NHL centers in our lineup and 4 deadly lines.


Ott for a 2nd rounder? LOL. You know Ott regularly plays wing on the Sabres right? He's only centre on the powerplay. He's worth a hell of a lot more than just a draft pick. He's solid offensively, defensively, can win faceoffs, play all three forward positions, is one of the best pests in the league, a phenomenal leader and he brings it every night. No way he goes for just a 2nd rounder. If Ott gets traded to Vancouver, it's going to have to involve someone like Cory Schneider.
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#109 boxiebrown

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:05 AM

Ott for a 2nd rounder? LOL. You know Ott regularly plays wing on the Sabres right? He's only centre on the powerplay. He's worth a hell of a lot more than just a draft pick. He's solid offensively, defensively, can win faceoffs, play all three forward positions, is one of the best pests in the league, a phenomenal leader and he brings it every night. No way he goes for just a 2nd rounder. If Ott gets traded to Vancouver, it's going to have to involve someone like Cory Schneider.


Nope.
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#110 mangosteens

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:37 AM

I see Dallas as a cost cutting team. Remember that they picked up Nystrom last year just to reach the floor?

Roy's cap hit is less than his salary, something they probably are not crazy about. I'd bet ownership would not mind seeing him go and bringing in someone whose cap hit either matches the salary or is more than the salary. They acquired Cole from Montreal who is paid $4M but has a cap hit of $4.5M.

The Stars also have Wandell sitting in the minors on a one way deal that they would probably like to move.
With the financial angle in play, the cost might not be as high as people think if we took Roy and Wandell back.

Ballard might actually be attractive to the Stars. They lack veterans on defense. His cap hit is slightly more than Roy, but his salary is less. Throw in a mid round pick and you might have a deal.

Edited by JyrkiBeefLumme, 15 March 2013 - 11:52 AM.

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#111 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

Nope.

In order to get Ott, it would have to involve someone like him. Of course it won't be a straight up deal.

If Vancouver says no, then Ott isn't going anywhere.
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#112 canuckfan85

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:09 PM

Ott for a 2nd rounder? LOL. You know Ott regularly plays wing on the Sabres right? He's only centre on the powerplay. He's worth a hell of a lot more than just a draft pick. He's solid offensively, defensively, can win faceoffs, play all three forward positions, is one of the best pests in the league, a phenomenal leader and he brings it every night. No way he goes for just a 2nd rounder. If Ott gets traded to Vancouver, it's going to have to involve someone like Cory Schneider.


I totally agree:

Ott
Buffalo 2013 1st

for
Cory Schneider
Vancouver 2013 1st


they can then set up a bidding war for Miller at the draft- maybe - FLA, NYI, EDM, WSH would all give up their 1st rounder++ for Miller.
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#113 Melons

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

The market value for players really hasn't proven to be great so far this year.

What would you guys have expected Simon Gagne to go for? I bet more than a 4th. Same goes with Keaton Ellerby and Andrei Loktionov, both who went for the measly price of a 5th rounder.

And Alexei Ponikarovsky, I was kinda surprised all the Jets got in return was a 4th and a 7th.

Derek Roy is a player demanding big money, there isn't a way we will be able to keep him around past this year. So what are we going to give up for 12 games for Derek Roy. And whatever we go on in the playoffs?

Is that worth Jordan Schroeder and a 2nd round pick which will also be a good prospect? I don't think so.


Agree. I think that value is going to be very difficult to determine this season (for us CDCers anyway). Apart from the usual wants and needs of an individual team (and thus how they value certain players), the unusually deep draft and contracting salary cap are going to be major factors in how potential trade targets are valued, priced and sold.

Add in the shortened season and this is going to be strange year for trades.

edit:grammar

Edited by Vicky, 15 March 2013 - 12:23 PM.

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#114 thad

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

His value is about where Cody Hodgsons was in 10/11, or where Cody Eakin's was last year maybe. Next season his value will rise more, and he will be a top 9 contributor, and Derek Roy will be on another team. Likely without a cup cause I don't think he is the player that is going to up us over the top.

His value is better than most think, people here are just so used to throwing him in trade proposals and calling him a bust that it has resinated yet with alot of people that he actually has gotten better and has developed and this is the stage in his career where he is just about to have a spike in development if things go right now that he is able to play at this level.


100% spot on.. This is the absolute worst time to get rid of a prospect like him. This is where the scales tip, does he take the next leap and keep progressing or does he slightly improve and plateau. If you give up on players this early all the time, you miss out and turn into the nyi islanders. We gotta see what Schroeder brings unless we get better stud center prospect, otherwise we move forward with a huge hole in our long term centre depth. We just can't afford it after trading Cody.
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#115 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

I totally agree:

Ott
Buffalo 2013 1st

for
Cory Schneider
Vancouver 2013 1st


they can then set up a bidding war for Miller at the draft- maybe - FLA, NYI, EDM, WSH would all give up their 1st rounder++ for Miller.


LOL. Ott is not going for Schneider + 1st. Lmao, Ott is a role player, not a top 6 scoring forward, He'll go for a pick or two depending on what Buffalo will be asking. I think there are other teams that will be able to pay more for Ott than what we can, and that could well include a roster player + prospect.

It will certainly not include a top young goaltender and a first round pick.
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#116 aqua59

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

Talked with Dallas about Ott last season.

Now talking with Sabres about ???

PLEASE NO to any of their UFA crap. PLEASE NO to any of their overpaid signed crap too. But if it's indeed Ott, i'd be shocked if Buf gives him up.

I think that the Sabres are in organizational turmoil. Ott is a back bone guy and I don't think any trades involving him would happen until the season is done.I'd be surprised Buffalo would move him.
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#117 CHIPS

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

The market value for players really hasn't proven to be great so far this year.

What would you guys have expected Simon Gagne to go for? I bet more than a 4th. Same goes with Keaton Ellerby and Andrei Loktionov, both who went for the measly price of a 5th rounder.

And Alexei Ponikarovsky, I was kinda surprised all the Jets got in return was a 4th and a 7th.

Derek Roy is a player demanding big money, there isn't a way we will be able to keep him around past this year. So what are we going to give up for 12 games for Derek Roy. And whatever we go on in the playoffs?

Is that worth Jordan Schroeder and a 2nd round pick which will also be a good prospect? I don't think so.


Because this year is a deep draft. Picks worth a lot more than usual. A lot of guys here said do not trade picks because of the deep draft. But they forgot that we can also get more from those draft picks. Market is always fair.
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#118 PLOGUE

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

Ott for a 2nd rounder? LOL. You know Ott regularly plays wing on the Sabres right? He's only centre on the powerplay. He's worth a hell of a lot more than just a draft pick. He's solid offensively, defensively, can win faceoffs, play all three forward positions, is one of the best pests in the league, a phenomenal leader and he brings it every night. No way he goes for just a 2nd rounder. If Ott gets traded to Vancouver, it's going to have to involve someone like Cory Schneider.

So 88 goals over 593 games now equals a number one goalie? Is it a necessity to overvalue all other players and under value the Canucks when making a proposal on CDC?
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QUOTE (ephysdad @ Oct 26 2008, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or then of course there's always the Ferry

Also,
I'm putting together a list of the criteria to be a "real" Canuck's fan. So far I have this:

1. I cheer for the Canucks, whatever happens.
2. I never say anything bad about the Canucks.
3. I know the difference between "real" fans and posers just by how they post on the CDC or where they sit at GM Place.
4. I wouldn't dream of leaving a game before it ended, even if it meant missing a train, ferry or a threesome with the wife and her hot best friend?
5. I make 10+ posts a day and I have over 10,000 posts on the CDC, so my Canuck "street-cred" is huge. Go away noob!
6. No one F's with me. I train in MMA. I'm really tough. I'll curb stomp yo' donkey.
7. I make a tonne of $$$$.
8. I'm witty.
9. If it meant missing a game, I wouldn't study for a midterm.
10. I roll with a guy who has a wicked car.
11. I like to post "source?" a lot.


#119 Understand

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

Unless your name is Crosby, anyone under 6'2 and 210 pounds is not welcome to our team. We have enough Raymonds, Sedins and Ebbett.
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#120 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

So 88 goals over 593 games now equals a number one goalie? Is it a necessity to overvalue all other players and under value the Canucks when making a proposal on CDC?

Is it a necessity to undervalue other players and overvalue Canucks when making a proposal on CDC? I never said Ott would go for Schneider one-for-one, but if the Sabres even think about trading Ott, it's going to be in a package deal for someone like Schneider. What is the reasoning to trade the hardest working player and arguably the biggest leader on the team for a 2nd round draft pick?
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