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[Report] Canucks Aggressively Pursuing Trade (Interested in Steve Ott & Derek Roy)


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#121 Canucks fan in chicago

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

Ott for Booth and a third round pick?
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#122 PLOGUE

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:46 PM

Is it a necessity to undervalue other players and overvalue Canucks when making a proposal on CDC? I never said Ott would go for Schneider one-for-one, but if the Sabres even think about trading Ott, it's going to be in a package deal for someone like Schneider. What is the reasoning to trade the hardest working player and arguably the biggest leader on the team for a 2nd round draft pick?

If I under value a player, quote me and ask. You over value a third line center on any good team and say a deal needs to include a number one goalie or no deal would happen. That is WAY over valuing his worth.
0.39 ppg average over his career and you still think Schneider is mentioned in the same sentence? Maybe if the conversation is "hey how about Ott & ____+ ___ " for Schneider. Ott is a good third line center/wing. Any reasonable person would look at ayers of equal/more value and say Ott goes for a 2nd and a 4th if he goes at all, and that is the desperate to add a guy at deadline price.
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#123 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:54 PM

Ott Is sick. Can put up 30-40 points in a full season and is a physical presence while being the perfect 3C.

Edited by RyanKeslord17, 15 March 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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#124 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:12 PM

If I under value a player, quote me and ask. You over value a third line center on any good team and say a deal needs to include a number one goalie or no deal would happen. That is WAY over valuing his worth.
0.39 ppg average over his career and you still think Schneider is mentioned in the same sentence? Maybe if the conversation is "hey how about Ott & ____+ ___ " for Schneider. Ott is a good third line center/wing. Any reasonable person would look at ayers of equal/more value and say Ott goes for a 2nd and a 4th if he goes at all, and that is the desperate to add a guy at deadline price.


Is that not what I said? What I'm saying is that the Sabres will not trade Ott for a draft pick. He's a hell of a lot more valuable to the team than he is in the market. I'm also not saying that the Canucks will trade Schneider for Ott, but the only way Steve Ott gets traded is in a major package deal for a player like Schneider.

Ott is good at almost every facet of the game and he's one of the few players on Buffalo that works his ass off night in and night out. There is no reason to trade him now unless there's an offer of substantial worth to the Sabres or if he requests a trade.

Yes, he's a good third line centre and wing, but he can play any role that is asked of him.

It's like if you had something that you consider valuable but other's do not, such as a family heirloom. You wouldn't go off and sell that object for $10 just because that is the market price unless if you were desperate for cash. Steve Ott's value to the team is much higher than his value on the market. He'll only get traded if it's an overpayment to acquire him.
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#125 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:30 PM

I love Ott. Do what ever it takes to get him. Within reason ,of course.
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#126 Zissou

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:48 PM

I love Ott. Do what ever it takes to get him. Within reason ,of course.


Bit of a contradiction right there
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#127 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:06 PM

100% spot on.. This is the absolute worst time to get rid of a prospect like him. This is where the scales tip, does he take the next leap and keep progressing or does he slightly improve and plateau. If you give up on players this early all the time, you miss out and turn into the nyi islanders. We gotta see what Schroeder brings unless we get better stud center prospect, otherwise we move forward with a huge hole in our long term centre depth. We just can't afford it after trading Cody.


Exactly.
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#128 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:11 PM

Because this year is a deep draft. Picks worth a lot more than usual. A lot of guys here said do not trade picks because of the deep draft. But they forgot that we can also get more from those draft picks. Market is always fair.


Yeah but you can trade those picks for a rental.

Or draft a player who will be here for a long time.

I have no issue trading the 2nd (although I would rather not) but no interest in trading the 1st this season.
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#129 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

haha, theres MAYBE five teams in the league where kesler would be a first line center, and theyre all competing for lottery picks.

frankly, the canucks have the best (and most expensive) third line center in the league. what they need is a second line center that actually makes the line work.


:picard: :sadno:

I don't know any third line center in this league who has put up back to back 70+ point seasons.
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#130 Samuel Påhlsson

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

While we're feeding the pipe dreams.

Patrick Elias would be wonderful along side Kesler.

Doubt Gillis will want to mortgage the future for rentals.
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#131 Pears

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:55 PM

I totally agree:

Ott
Buffalo 2013 1st

for
Cory Schneider
Vancouver 2013 1st


they can then set up a bidding war for Miller at the draft- maybe - FLA, NYI, EDM, WSH would all give up their 1st rounder++ for Miller.

That's one of the worst proposals I've ever seen for Schneider
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#132 canuckfan85

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:05 PM

That's one of the worst proposals I've ever seen for Schneider


shut your pie hole- Buffalo could be a lottery pick.
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#133 Pears

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

shut your pie hole- Buffalo could be a lottery pick.

It won't be with Miller and Schneider as their tandem
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#134 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:12 PM

shut your pie hole- Buffalo could be a lottery pick.


Everybody who misses the playoffs is a lottery pick. ;)
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#135 Coconuts

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:15 PM

While we're feeding the pipe dreams.

Patrick Elias would be wonderful along side Kesler.

Doubt Gillis will want to mortgage the future for rentals.


Daniel Alfredsson too!
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#136 canuckfan85

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:16 PM

That's one of the worst proposals I've ever seen for Schneider


you don't think Sean Monohan and Ott for Schneider and a late 1st is a good deal??

That is a grrrrreeaaattt deal lol. Helps us now and in the future- Monohan likely a very good 2nd line centre.
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#137 tas

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

:picard: :sadno:

I don't know any third line center in this league who has put up back to back 70+ point seasons.

putting up 70 points on his own is great, but his line suffers because he doesn't play well with others.

imagine how good the canucks could be if the burden of scoring was lifted from kesler's shoulders.

edit: for example, imagine a lineup like this:

sedin-sedin-burrows
booth-roy-kassian
higgins-kesler-hansen
pinizzotto/sestito-lapierre-weise

give or take, and assuming you could work a deal for derek roy around raymond and ballard.

you get the idea though; a legitimate playmaker on the second line and an amazing two-way third line.

Edited by tas, 15 March 2013 - 04:46 PM.

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#138 70seven

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:07 PM

Ott would be nice, but thats what I said last year, and we should have up'ed the anti when Dallas was trying to unload him, instead we'll have to over pay to pry him from a team that likes what theyve got. Doubtfull that this one pans out.

Roy on the other hand might be had for a decent price, and he could be a nice depth scoring piece, but lacks physicality and is mediocre on the draw. Would be interesting to have a playmaking center with experience though, as it could help in using Kesler as a primary matchup against the oppositions best, and take some pressure off him to produce while in that checking role.


Id still prefer a guy like Dubinsky, if we're going all in here.
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#139 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 03:49 AM

Have you been a fan for a while?

Just last season after the deadline we were in the doldrums. Burrows was pulled from the 1st line, not because he was playing bad. to give our 2knd and 3rd lines a boost. Burrows single handidly put the work rate and effort back in to both lines and got us back on track where we won the Prez trophy. He proved he could kick start other lines!

And he was a superb player with Kesler dating back years... He has always been a "glue" guy, the type who does so many good things opportunities are created for everyone on his line. He may not be the 2knd coming of Mogilny who could score 100 points; but he is a great player.

Selective memory...

There is no evidence that Burrows is a 2nd line player without the Sedins. When separated from them, he has looked bad. Currently with them, he hasn't been so great in production. (48, 52 pts last two years, 14 pts in 26 gp this year WITH the Sedins, imagine without them)

My main point is, you need 4 offensive juggernauts, 2 on each line, then you can slot your Booth/Higgins/Raymond/Hansen/Kassian

Unless Booth returns to his 30/30 Florida days, and Raymond returns to 25g/50pt form, then I guess we can get away with it. But then you see these guys trail off in the playoffs against tight checking defense due to lack of natural offensive talent.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Raymond - Kesler - XXXXX
Higgins - XXXXXX - Hansen
Booth - Lapierre - Kassian

Two pieces away IMO.

That's scary, Chicago 2010-esque depth, assuming we grab solid players to fill in those roles. But does Vancouver have the assets?


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#140 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 04:05 AM

Nobody can definitively say Kesler is a first line center without seeing him play there on a regular basis -- and nobody has. I don't doubt he can fit there short term but there's no real evidence definitively saying he would succeed in that role. I think Max can play the third line on a regular basis as long as he is supported by a couple guys that can finish once in a while too. He's posted some solid numbers before, even with us, and those obviously weren't in fourth line roles.

The Canucks really need to go for a legitimate top six player. Ideally a center at this point. If either Henrik or Kesler go down in the playoffs - that's it, game over. This team doesn't have the center depth to slot someone in someone to fill that void. Assuming either Kesler or Henrik go down in the playoffs, do you really think Steve Ott is going to fill that hole effectively? I sure as hell don't. With the rumors of Roy floating around, he more than has that ability. Plus, it makes us a greater offensive threat three lines down if we decide to spread them out.


We have 3 centres (plus Ebbett)! Both of you are a bit polarized.

People are fixated on a replacement for Manny, and some are calling for a two way centre when they want a defensive stud. Well you can win a game by scoring more OR by letting the opponent score less; it depends on who we get. Dont forget MG blew it last year thinking he replaced Manny with Pahlson and traded for a big winger that wasnt ready for the big leagues yet. Rather than money ball, I just wish for a dynamic player. If the guy is defensive we gear up that way, if he's an offensive force the coach adjusts his game plan?

But make the best deal available regardless of style.

Note to that cause; Lapierre was a more than adequate replacement for Manny in our cup run! He is absolutely fine as a defensive guy. I personally see an offensive rental like Ribiero as having the most chance of bringing up the calibre of play of more guys. Then someone like Ott who is extremely physical.


We don't have a 3rd line center

we have two 1st line centers, a 4th line center and depth players.

Thats what we need.

And moving Kesler two wing would be dumb, he is elite defensively and we need what he brings defensively down the middle since center is a much more defensive position than Wing.



How is it questionable?

And I am pretty sure Mason Raymond is playing like a top 6 forward this season. And Burrows would be a 2nd liner without the twins aswell.

What we need is a 3rd line center than can bring a really good defensively game & is good on draws, offense would be great too but not top priority IMO. someone like Bozak would be perfect, or Goc would also be very nice.

Also, like those teams we have 4 good offensive players. But unlike those teams, we don't have a good two-way 3rd line center (Bolland, Peverly, Sutter, Koivu)


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#141 komodo1970

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:33 AM

I m kinda lookin at this season as a year in which rash decisions should be avoided. With the lockout eating up so much of the year and the joke of a training camp at the beginning, it s hard to get any real sense of what we have. A guy like Garrison didn t really get a solid opportunity to find his stride with this team. The confusion in goal, I believe, may be more of a distraction than anyone is letting on.
I seriously believe that short term future should be addressed. Looking at players that r on the verge of making the NHL within the next season or two.
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#142 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:42 AM

Ott would be nice, but thats what I said last year, and we should have up'ed the anti when Dallas was trying to unload him, instead we'll have to over pay to pry him from a team that likes what theyve got. Doubtfull that this one pans out.

Roy on the other hand might be had for a decent price, and he could be a nice depth scoring piece, but lacks physicality and is mediocre on the draw. Would be interesting to have a playmaking center with experience though, as it could help in using Kesler as a primary matchup against the oppositions best, and take some pressure off him to produce while in that checking role.


Id still prefer a guy like Dubinsky, if we're going all in here.


I agree, Dubinsky would be the one I would target, younger and more skilled than Ott.
Could stay with the team beyond his original contract, think he would be a good fit, little closer to Alaska for him.
Now if MG wants to really dig deep I say get em both in.
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#143 Vansicle

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:49 AM

Interesting. Gllis is telegraphing his desperation, assuring that he will not get fair value after highballing Luongo's value all Summer long. Especially after reports that he could have had 80/90% of what he wanted.
Anyone else suspect he's about to get a taste of his own medicine?
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#144 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:01 PM

Interesting. Gllis is telegraphing his desperation, assuring that he will not get fair value after highballing Luongo's value all Summer long. Especially after reports that he could have had 80/90% of what he wanted.
Anyone else suspect he's about to get a taste of his own medicine?


Gillis played his hand wrong with Luongo. His gamble was that Luo plays great, the Canucks are high in the standings and a big market team gets desperate for goaltending. None of which is happening. Although Luo has played pretty good most of the year.
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#145 oldnews

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

Steve Ott - one of the most overvalued players on the market - and note he's been on the market a couple years running.

Neiuwendyk is a prudent guy - he was shopping this guy for a number of reasons imo.

Relative corsi -22.7 - the worst on the horrible Buffalo Sabres.

His offensive zone finishes are 1.1% higher than his dzone starts.

3 goals - nothing to suggest that would be the kind of secondary scoring the Canucks need.

His defensive play - uninspiring - and no, hitting people is not a substitute - we have guys that can hit at appropriate cap hits.

Talk of a Schneider for an Ott centerpiece deal truly turns the stomach.

Buffalo can keep him. I can't think of a single realistic option that I'd entertain for this guy.

Edited by oldnews, 16 March 2013 - 12:15 PM.

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#146 Pears

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

you don't think Sean Monohan and Ott for Schneider and a late 1st is a good deal??

That is a grrrrreeaaattt deal lol. Helps us now and in the future- Monohan likely a very good 2nd line centre.

Please tell me how Buffalo will get a lottery pick, while only giving up Ott, to acquire one of the best goalie tandems in the NHL?
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#147 WL Canuck Fan

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:31 PM

Gillis played his hand wrong with Luongo. His gamble was that Luo plays great, the Canucks are high in the standings and a big market team gets desperate for goaltending. None of which is happening. Although Luo has played pretty good most of the year.


Lou has played well enough that I am starting to feel that if we go past trade deadline day with him, a new approach for GMMG might be "Hey Lou, wanna stay if we trade Schneids, you'd be our #1 guy." Truthfully, Lou has been playing better than Schneids, and it appears to me that the situation this year has caused him to get his mental game back. He is playing like a guy not carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Now i am not saying Lou would agree, but you never know till you ask. Schneids would fetch us more, especially to a rebuilding team, plus he has n't got an NTC.

Just a thought.
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#148 Ronning4center

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

Agreed,
Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Ribero
Raymond-Ott-Burrows
Higgins-Lappiere-Hansen

That's depth


Close for sure...but Raymond is not a bottom six guy. He's either top six or traded IMO.
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#149 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 03:03 PM

We have 3 centres (plus Ebbett)! Both of you are a bit polarized.

People are fixated on a replacement for Manny, and some are calling for a two way centre when they want a defensive stud. Well you can win a game by scoring more OR by letting the opponent score less; it depends on who we get. Dont forget MG blew it last year thinking he replaced Manny with Pahlson and traded for a big winger that wasnt ready for the big leagues yet. Rather than money ball, I just wish for a dynamic player. If the guy is defensive we gear up that way, if he's an offensive force the coach adjusts his game plan?

But make the best deal available regardless of style.

Note to that cause; Lapierre was a more than adequate replacement for Manny in our cup run! He is absolutely fine as a defensive guy. I personally see an offensive rental like Ribiero as having the most chance of bringing up the calibre of play of more guys. Then someone like Ott who is extremely physical.


Lappy doesn't replace Manny for a # of reasons, not as good on faceoffs or defensively, and he is right handed.

We need a center, this is how I see our center depth, with what calibre of player they are.

Henrik: 1st
Kesler: 1st
Lappierre: 4th
Ebbet: Depth
Schroeder: Offensive Depth

Riberio might not be bad, but I would want him as a Winger on Kesler's line, which would leave us in need of a center for the third line.

And if we want Ott, it will start with a 1st, then we will have to add. There will have to be an overpayment cause Buffalo doesn't have interest in moving him, and the price tag would make no sense for us.

I would look at someone along the lines of Mattias, Goc or Bozak. Any of them would be great fits IMO.
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#150 aqua59

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

Ott Is sick. Can put up 30-40 points in a full season and is a physical presence while being the perfect 3C.

How many times will he put his team behind the 8 ball? That's a risk Gillis and Co might be willing to take. I still doubt that the Sabres will do much because there will be a lot of change in the off season for them .
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