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Chinese Signs Out Of Hand in Richmond Says Petition


DonLever

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I've been to restaurants in Richmond where they treat you differently if you don't speak Chinese. I understand Chinese more than I am able to speak it (or more comfortable that I can speak it). So I normally order in English and the service is completely different when I am with family that does order in Chinese. The service seems slower and they appear to try to avoid you at all costs even if you're trying to give them your money. They talk behind my back in Chinese thinking I do not know the language and I have walked out places like this. Now, I know not all places are like this, but I haven't gone to Richmond in a while because I don't see the point in possibly dealing with that again. With Chinese-only signage, I definitely will not be stepping into those stores. I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way somewhat, so it must be hurting their businesses and to some extent Richmond's local economy. Should I feel the need to learn more Chinese in Canada to be accepted? It's hard to accept their culture when they do not want to accept others.

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Is that actually a dig? Are you criticizing those that are not shy about commenting on societal issues that they recognize as problematic? Many of those 'crusaders' are not advocating this petition in question or for government to get involved.

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I've been to restaurants in Richmond where they treat you differently if you don't speak Chinese. I understand Chinese more than I am able to speak it (or more comfortable that I can speak it). So I normally order in English and the service is completely different when I am with family that does order in Chinese. The service seems slower and they appear to try to avoid you at all costs even if you're trying to give them your money. They talk behind my back in Chinese thinking I do not know the language and I have walked out places like this. Now, I know not all places are like this, but I haven't gone to Richmond in a while because I don't see the point in possibly dealing with that again. With Chinese-only signage, I definitely will not be stepping into those stores. I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way somewhat, so it must be hurting their businesses and to some extent Richmond's local economy. Should I feel the need to learn more Chinese in Canada to be accepted? It's hard to accept their culture when they do not want to accept others.

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On another note, I wonder what the Musqueam Nation thought in the 1860's when Richmond's original foreign settlers put up their first signs, at Steveston, in English?

So have we not learned anything then? You're ok with it? I was hoping we had and that progress had been made, but apparently not? I'm quite sure they felt the same way and, had I been present, I would have supported them and tried to learn their language/customs and integrate them into my own. Been sensitive to those around me..it's just how I roll. We should have learned from previous mistakes and listened.

You cannot use this argument without saying it was ok back then (too). So you're in support of how the Musqueam were treated back then? I certainly am not.

I am a firm believer of caring about those around me and making sure I'm not trampling on them with a selfish agenda that's all about me. If they feel bad, I try to listen to that and see if I can perhaps do something to help in that. I don't want Chinese people to come here and give up what they know...I just want them to expand their horizons. We're supposedly a compassionate, empathetic nation but if we're bending to become wrapped up in a "it's mine, I can do what I like...if you don't like it, don't come" mentality, it doesn't support that.

There is more behind this for sure...the signs are the tip of the much larger iceburg and I won't venture to go there in depth, as it's a whole other can of worms. But it involves protesting against hospices based on beliefs about ghosts and fear of death. Yet those beliefs didn't come into play in building a mall next door to a funeral home? Wait a minute. So is it just when the agenda suits you? Or is it a strongly embedded cultural belief...I'm confused? That one still lingers for me...when property values outvalue dying people, it's a problem. So many things are steering this in the wrong direction. But I'll add that to my checklist - no dying people nearby...check.

Not racism...issues that are being presented that I feel strongly about. I don't care if it's Mr. Robert Jones presenting them, it's the issue I'm addressing, not those bringing it to me.

FTR, I also was a strong advocate for (and had letters to the editor printed in favour of) the SUCCESS society's bid to build a seniors' home in Steveston, despite the NIMBY's opposition of it. It is mostly geared toward Chinese seniors, so I guess my "racism" didn't stand in the way of that one It was predominantly caucasian, long time residents fighting against the facility. So let's establish that I don't have a vendetta of any sort directed toward people of a specific race...I care about people. Period. And that should be everyone's priority - first and foremost. To care about those around us as well as ourselves.

I push for a kinder, gentler world. Not based on "rights", "laws", or anything other than common courtesy and the thinking that it's always best to join hands in unity than to use them to build walls to keep people at bay. Which is what this basically equates to.

I laugh at the declaration of some here who have suggested "mountains out of moehills" and that it's no big deal. If so, why are you still here, pages deep now? Kind of contradicts that "no big deal" stuff. Obviously, your feelings are a little stronger than you've let on. Or is it simply that you feel somehow that your opinion is the valid one? If it's no big deal, you should have likely moved on long ago, right?

It really isn't that big a deal to me...life will go on, as usual. But it saddens me that we're taking this direction and the message is basically that it's ok to care only about ourselves..."if you don't like it, move on" applies. "Our property". Believe me, I certainly will pass by as a result. But I don't know that that's the answer in a harmonic sense.

No biggie is right...until someone has a heart attack and dies in front of a Chinese only sign that the paramedics can't identify the location of. "Where are you?". "In front of.....um, I don't know".

People here stereotyping are simply one step away from the "r" word in my view. You've quickly pointed out accents, tea time, age and hair colour. So this is relevant? Hmmm.

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It absolutely was not a dig. Apologies if that's how it came across.

It was meant to convey that I completely support people who use means other than lobbying for government intervention to try affect a change in this matter. If people approach the shop keepers and complain, it may or may not be effective, but at least it won't drag polititians into the fray.

To summarize: I think it's fine to ask business owners to change this policy, but not to demand it through the city's administration.

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I've been to restaurants in Richmond where they treat you differently if you don't speak Chinese. I understand Chinese more than I am able to speak it (or more comfortable that I can speak it). So I normally order in English and the service is completely different when I am with family that does order in Chinese. The service seems slower and they appear to try to avoid you at all costs even if you're trying to give them your money. They talk behind my back in Chinese thinking I do not know the language and I have walked out places like this. Now, I know not all places are like this, but I haven't gone to Richmond in a while because I don't see the point in possibly dealing with that again. With Chinese-only signage, I definitely will not be stepping into those stores. I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way somewhat, so it must be hurting their businesses and to some extent Richmond's local economy. Should I feel the need to learn more Chinese in Canada to be accepted? It's hard to accept their culture when they do not want to accept others.

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For added fun make the protest signs in Japanese and put in slogans that can result in the loss of "face".

Or if you are really into having fun and got the wherewithal purchase a place next door and put in an application to turn it into a funeral home.

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Yeah, we're supposed to bend over for them more than they do for us. How about a little consistency in principle, instead of what the Holy Charter says?

Are you for absolute adherence to the Charter or not? Doesn't the Charter apply to Quebec just as much as it does to us? Either you are for it or you are not? NO EXCEPTIONS! To make them would make you hypocritical.

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It is consistent.

The Charter does apply to Quebec as the Ford case makes clear as I noted earlier.

However like all rights freedom of commercial expression is subject to reasonable limitations (Section 1) but that reasonable limitation does not apply to the English language in BC as no one could seriously contend that English was a language that must be protected given its overwhelming presence. As the SCOC stated:

The material established the importance of the legislative purpose reflected in the Charter of the French Language ‑‑ the enhancement of the status of the French language in Quebec ‑‑ and that it was a response to a pressing and substantial concern ‑‑ the survival of the French language.

What may be a reasonable limitation in one set of facts and circumstances is not necessarily applicable in a different set of facts and circumstances.

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So have we not learned anything then? You're ok with it? I was hoping we had and that progress had been made, but apparently not? I'm quite sure they felt the same way and, had I been present, I would have supported them and tried to learn their language/customs and integrate them into my own. Been sensitive to those around me..it's just how I roll. We should have learned from previous mistakes and listened.

You cannot use this argument without saying it was ok back then (too). So you're in support of how the Musqueam were treated back then? I certainly am not.

I am a firm believer of caring about those around me and making sure I'm not trampling on them with a selfish agenda that's all about me. If they feel bad, I try to listen to that and see if I can perhaps do something to help in that. I don't want Chinese people to come here and give up what they know...I just want them to expand their horizons. We're supposedly a compassionate, empathetic nation but if we're bending to become wrapped up in a "it's mine, I can do what I like...if you don't like it, don't come" mentality, it doesn't support that.

There is more behind this for sure...the signs are the tip of the much larger iceburg and I won't venture to go there in depth, as it's a whole other can of worms. But it involves protesting against hospices based on beliefs about ghosts and fear of death. Yet those beliefs didn't come into play in building a mall next door to a funeral home? Wait a minute. So is it just when the agenda suits you? Or is it a strongly embedded cultural belief...I'm confused? That one still lingers for me...when property values outvalue dying people, it's a problem. So many things are steering this in the wrong direction. But I'll add that to my checklist - no dying people nearby...check.

Not racism...issues that are being presented that I feel strongly about. I don't care if it's Mr. Robert Jones presenting them, it's the issue I'm addressing, not those bringing it to me.

FTR, I also was a strong advocate for (and had letters to the editor printed in favour of) the SUCCESS society's bid to build a seniors' home in Steveston, despite the NIMBY's opposition of it. It is mostly geared toward Chinese seniors, so I guess my "racism" didn't stand in the way of that one It was predominantly caucasian, long time residents fighting against the facility. So let's establish that I don't have a vendetta of any sort directed toward people of a specific race...I care about people. Period. And that should be everyone's priority - first and foremost. To care about those around us as well as ourselves.

I push for a kinder, gentler world. Not based on "rights", "laws", or anything other than common courtesy and the thinking that it's always best to join hands in unity than to use them to build walls to keep people at bay. Which is what this basically equates to.

I laugh at the declaration of some here who have suggested "mountains out of moehills" and that it's no big deal. If so, why are you still here, pages deep now? Kind of contradicts that "no big deal" stuff. Obviously, your feelings are a little stronger than you've let on. Or is it simply that you feel somehow that your opinion is the valid one? If it's no big deal, you should have likely moved on long ago, right?

It really isn't that big a deal to me...life will go on, as usual. But it saddens me that we're taking this direction and the message is basically that it's ok to care only about ourselves..."if you don't like it, move on" applies. "Our property". Believe me, I certainly will pass by as a result. But I don't know that that's the answer in a harmonic sense.

No biggie is right...until someone has a heart attack and dies in front of a Chinese only sign that the paramedics can't identify the location of. "Where are you?". "In front of.....um, I don't know".

People here stereotyping are simply one step away from the "r" word in my view. You've quickly pointed out accents, tea time, age and hair colour. So this is relevant? Hmmm.

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My only problem with the petition is the specific use of the phrase "way out of hand", it has a very negative tone. They should've used a more neutral term or phrase such as "over-prevalent" or go the opposition direction describing the missing English translation as "under-represented".

Otherwise it is a fair petition.

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At least Richmond City Council had the good sense to overwhelmingly reject this petition out of hand.

The city council in Richmond, B.C., has voted not to follow up on a petition, presented to them on Monday evening, asking for a bylaw that would ban "Chinese-only" signs in the city.

A group of Richmond residents collected 1,000 signatures supporting their position that the majority of signs in any one area of the city should have at least one of Canada's official languages — English or French.

Petitioner Anne Merdinyan spent months taking photos around Richmond to illustrate the prevalence of Chinese-only signs outside local businesses, on restaurant menus and in pamplets (sic) and inserts received in the mail. She presented the photos in a slideshow to council.

Merdinyan said Chinese-only signs are doing non-Chinese residents a disservice.

"We, the new visible minorities, are experiencing exclusion," she said to a city council chamber packed with Richmond residents.

"Maybe I want to do business with them," Merdinyan said. "Why I have to be an outsider? What's the reason?"

On Monday, Coun. Chak Au suggested the city investigate the issue further. However, every other councillor defeated the proposal, saying it's up to store owners to decide what kind of signage they want, and it's up to shoppers to decide if they want to go elsewhere.

Richmond resident Randolf Richardson was at the meeting and said he was happy with council's decision.

"There are also requirements in our charter that require certain government departments and the education system to provide English and French language support because those are official languages in that regard," he said.

"But that doesn't extend to imposing those languages on people, private citizens or private property. And what I see these shopkeepers doing is exercising their right to freedom of expression."

Coun. Derek Dang said non-English signs are actually quite rare — a recent count only found three Chinese business signs that had no English.

Dang said he's afraid the push against Chinese-only signs may be a case of veiled racism.

However, he said he thinks those who support mandatory English signs are in a slim minority.

"I don't believe that is a common theme throughout our city, and hopefully it's not around the Lower Mainland either," he said.

Dang also said Richmond's small business owners should be able to decide how they want to advertise, even if it hurts their businesses in the end.

"If they only want to cater to one group of people, [they] are actually doing a detriment to their own business, and I just think it's foolhardy, quite frankly," he said.

According to Statistics Canada, about half of Richmond's population speaks only English at home.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/03/18/bc-chinese-signs-richmond.html

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Is there for honest Poverty

That hings his head, an' a' that;

The coward slave-we pass him by,

We dare be poor for a' that!

For a' that, an' a' that.

Our toils obscure an' a' that,

The rank is but the guinea's stamp,

The Man's the gowd for a' that.

What though on hamely fare we dine,

Wear hoddin grey, an' a that;

Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;

A Man's a Man for a' that:

For a' that, and a' that,

Their tinsel show, an' a' that;

The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,

Is king o' men for a' that.

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord,

Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;

Tho' hundreds worship at his word,

He's but a coof for a' that:

For a' that, an' a' that,

His ribband, star, an' a' that:

The man o' independent mind

He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,

A marquis, duke, an' a' that;

But an honest man's abon his might,

Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!

For a' that, an' a' that,

Their dignities an' a' that;

The pith o' sense, an' pride o'worth,

Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,

(As come it will for a' that,)

That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,

Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.

For a' that, an' a' that,

It's coming yet for a' that,

That Man to Man, the world o'er,

Shall brothers be for a' that.

Robbie Burns

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